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Old
03-25-2008, 03:16 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Marleau at 6.3 is overpayment imo. I know stats aren't everything, but I'll toss em out anyways.

Marleau ranks 52nd among centers in points, and is -16 for the season.

I'd hate to see us trade anything young and promising for PM at 6.3 and then make due with the same D corps, or a marignal upgrade there.
Agreed. Let's not help out the San Jose Sharks anymore m'Kay?

They are big boys and can deal with their own bad contracts. No more Fedorovs pleeez.

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03-25-2008, 03:23 PM
  #77
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I don't necessarily disagree with this, but just because Marleau wouldn't rank among the top 20 or maybe even 30, does that mean we should settle for some guy that may barely rank in the top 75(just throwing a random number out there)?

If we could get 2 decent centers as opposed to 1 center that's a little better - as in Stoll and Vermette instead of Marleau - I am all for it. But let's not act like Marleau wouldn't be light years ahead of what we have, or that he's hardly the makings of a top center.
Everyone seems to focus only on the negative, Manny on the top line, while forgetting that we would be adding an elite goal scorer to Nash's line (Hossa). Obviously this theory will never happen, but it's fun to think about.

I'm with you on Marleau. I'd much rather add two good centers than one over-hyped center. Carter and Vermette would be my top choices, but I'd settle for Stoll or better yet, Christensen.

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03-25-2008, 03:36 PM
  #78
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Patrick Marleau is having a bad year. He's not a bad player. Normally he should be good for 80-95 points, which is decent at 6 million a year.

However, Columbus and San Jose don't make a lot of sense as trading partners. Marleau is more of a scorer than a playmaker, and I get the sense that the Jackets need a set-up man more than another goalscorer. On the flip side, the Jackets primary bargaining chip are young players, and the sharks don't need any more youth except for the guys I doubt CBJ would part with (I'm a huge Brule fan)

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03-25-2008, 04:20 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Patrick Marleau is having a bad year. He's not a bad player. Normally he should be good for 80-95 points, which is decent at 6 million a year.

However, Columbus and San Jose don't make a lot of sense as trading partners. Marleau is more of a scorer than a playmaker, and I get the sense that the Jackets need a set-up man more than another goalscorer. On the flip side, the Jackets primary bargaining chip are young players, and the sharks don't need any more youth except for the guys I doubt CBJ would part with (I'm a huge Brule fan)
Hate to bust you out with stats Nemesis, but Marleau is not "normally" good for 80-95points. He scored 78 points once and 86 points once. The other 8 years he averaged about 46 points.

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03-25-2008, 04:26 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Top Shelf View Post
I don't think he'd be our clear cut #1 by any stretch.

Again that is playing guys higher in the lineup than they should be. Sure he could perhaps get there someday but you don't pencil this guy into a #1 center position unless you are forced to.

I like Vermette but he's only got 3 years in this league and is looking at a career best year of a 46 to 47 points. Those aren't #1 center numbers. Yes I know he's played lower in the lineup in Ottawa but he's got to prove he can be that go-to guy, we don't hand it to him.

Of course with the way Hitch juggles his lineup there is no doubt Vermette wouldn't get a shot with Nash up there at some point.

Lets be carefull not to build this guy up more than he really is at this point.

I have a feeling at the end of this offseason we may be looking at just having a solid group of centers -- no true #1 per se -- but that would be a hell of a lot better than where we've been.

So thinkin out loud here:

Would anyone be upset with say a Vermette, Lombardi and Modano down the middle in some form or fashion?

Or what about Brendan Morrison, Jeff Carter, Chris Kelly trio?

...or go big and try to land a big fish via trade like Jokinen and then go from there.

I think there are more options out there than we think which is good but I'm starting to warm up to the idea of bringing in two solid #2s and if Peca doesn't work out then grabbing a deal on a 3rd as opposed to blowing our wad on a big time #1.
Once again great post TS. I've said this before but a combination of Carter/Vermette or Carter/Lombardi would be a great addition for the CBJ. I would prefer Vermette over Lombardi for the simple fact that he can play all 3 forward positions and on the PK and PP. He's also excellent at faceoffs as I recall. A combination like that and re-sign Peca and we have a really good top 3, interchangeable group of Centers. Novotny could be kept on the 4th line or find another player with heart (Fritsche?) to play 4th line Center.

I also don't think we need to break the bank for both players given the assets we have. With the likelyhood of two first round picks and players like Brassard, Brule, Fritsche, Lindstrom, OKT and Pineault I think we could get any combination of the 3. Personally I would part with Brassard for Carter and keep Fritsche and/or Brule if they didn't need to be dealt for Vermette or Lombardi (unlikely, I know)

They fit the core age of the team and clearly fill needs although I'm not sure any of them are truly ready for that "Top Line Center" position but they certainly are skill upgrades and would make us a much tougher team to play agains. Carter has also played for Hitchcock so that could also add up to success (or pain if he wasn't a fit - if the deal happens you know Hitch gave his blessing)

Two players like this woudl allow us to spend a little on the top D-man we need although I don't see a Redden or Campbell coming here - too much to pay considering we'll need to re-sign Nash and Zherdev over the next two years (barring any trade situation). Two players like this would also fill the C position and allow us to let other players develop as we draft them.

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03-25-2008, 04:52 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Marleau at 6.3 is overpayment imo. I know stats aren't everything, but I'll toss em out anyways.

Marleau ranks 52nd among centers in points, and is -16 for the season.

Langkow ranks 23rd in points, and is +15 for the season, on undoubtedly a worse team.

Jeff Carter, 38th in points, +3.


I'd hate to see us trade anything young and promising for PM at 6.3 and then make due with the same D corps, or a marignal upgrade there.
On the same token, I just don't see Calgary dealling Langkow. It's even been made public that they feel Conroy and Langkow are their top 2 centers and Lombardi hasn't met expectations. I would certainly take Lombardi but that's another story.

Jeff Carter may be attainable, if only for Philly's cap space issues, but if you're asking me which one is the most realistic out of those 3 for the Jackets(at least on the Jackets end of the trade), I say Marleau.

I love the thought of Carter, but I wish I knew where all this optimism about him comes from.

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03-25-2008, 05:09 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Casework View Post
On the same token, I just don't see Calgary dealling Langkow. It's even been made public that they feel Conroy and Langkow are their top 2 centers and Lombardi hasn't met expectations.

The problem is, Calgary has a finite amount of money and a lot of guys left to re-sign. Langkow doesn't have to be dealt--he's a UFA. And if he (and his agent) have any brains, they'll test the market knowing full well that Langkow can get max dollars because the other options aren't too good. Beyond which, Calgary is a close, but not quite team as far as the Stanley Cup goes. With all the ridiculous contracts they are signing, they have to pretty much win with who they have over the next 3 years or blow it up and start over. If I'm Langkow, I take the money and run.

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03-25-2008, 06:00 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Patrick Marleau is having a bad year. He's not a bad player. Normally he should be good for 80-95 points, which is decent at 6 million a year.

However, Columbus and San Jose don't make a lot of sense as trading partners. Marleau is more of a scorer than a playmaker, and I get the sense that the Jackets need a set-up man more than another goalscorer. On the flip side, the Jackets primary bargaining chip are young players, and the sharks don't need any more youth except for the guys I doubt CBJ would part with (I'm a huge Brule fan)


Most of us aren't attached to brule to begin with...

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Old
03-25-2008, 06:00 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Top Shelf View Post
I don't think he'd be our clear cut #1 by any stretch.

Again that is playing guys higher in the lineup than they should be. Sure he could perhaps get there someday but you don't pencil this guy into a #1 center position unless you are forced to.

I like Vermette but he's only got 3 years in this league and is looking at a career best year of a 46 to 47 points. Those aren't #1 center numbers. Yes I know he's played lower in the lineup in Ottawa but he's got to prove he can be that go-to guy, we don't hand it to him.

Of course with the way Hitch juggles his lineup there is no doubt Vermette wouldn't get a shot with Nash up there at some point.

Lets be carefull not to build this guy up more than he really is at this point.

I have a feeling at the end of this offseason we may be looking at just having a solid group of centers -- no true #1 per se -- but that would be a hell of a lot better than where we've been.

So thinkin out loud here:

Would anyone be upset with say a Vermette, Lombardi and Modano down the middle in some form or fashion?

Or what about Brendan Morrison, Jeff Carter, Chris Kelly trio?

...or go big and try to land a big fish via trade like Jokinen and then go from there.

I think there are more options out there than we think which is good but I'm starting to warm up to the idea of bringing in two solid #2s and if Peca doesn't work out then grabbing a deal on a 3rd as opposed to blowing our wad on a big time #1.
This is the second time I've seen a reference to bringing Modano to the Blue Jackets and I really don't understand it. Why would we bring a 38 year old to the Jackets? He won't be cheap either....makes no sense to me.

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03-25-2008, 06:16 PM
  #85
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This is the second time I've seen a reference to bringing Modano to the Blue Jackets and I really don't understand it. Why would we bring a 38 year old to the Jackets? He won't be cheap either....makes no sense to me.
I wouldn't scream if they brought in Modano to finish out his career, but Modano probably would. I was under the impression he wasn't much of a Hitch fan.

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03-25-2008, 06:19 PM
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This is the second time I've seen a reference to bringing Modano to the Blue Jackets and I really don't understand it. Why would we bring a 38 year old to the Jackets? He won't be cheap either....makes no sense to me.
He's on pace for over 50+ points...he makes 2.25 million over the next two years. His cap hit is higher but we don't care b/c we'll never spend to it. He's played for Hitch. He's a veteran who knows how to win. He can play in any situation. I personally think he'd be a great stop gap until a guy like Brassard is ready and we aren't breaking the bank to get him.

The reason I think he may be "obtainable" is that Dallas may be ready to turn the page on the Modano era after he broke the US scoring record and they have their top two centers in Ribeiro and Richards (Richards )... They also move cap space to address bigger needs for them.

This team still needs veterans and I think he would be a good fit in the 2nd line center position and really help on the PP. Watching him plenty this year I think he's got plenty left in the tank.

Seriously, who could you find better for 2.25 million? That' probably what a 30 point producer and oft-injured Peca will want.

Then you still have plenty of dough to play with to go out and still try to get a younger more long term solution like Carter and address your defensive needs.

I have no idea if he's on the block but he's an option I'd definitey look into.


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03-25-2008, 07:23 PM
  #87
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This is the second time I've seen a reference to bringing Modano to the Blue Jackets and I really don't understand it. Why would we bring a 38 year old to the Jackets? He won't be cheap either....makes no sense to me.
There was a point in time early in this season where I thought it made sense, but I don't think it makes any sense going into next season this way. Modano would just be another bandage, and there's no guaranty at his age he'd be any more durable than Peca has.

While there was trouble in paradise at the beginning of this season, things between Modano and the Stars seem to have calmed. Unless they make an early exit from the playoffs, I see no reason for them to ship of the guy who has been the face of their franchise for over a decade.

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03-25-2008, 07:29 PM
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There was a point in time early in this season where I thought it made sense, but I don't think it makes any sense going into next season this way. Modano would just be another bandage, and there's no guaranty at his age he'd be any more durable than Peca has.

While there was trouble in paradise at the beginning of this season, things between Modano and the Stars seem to have calmed. Unless they make an early exit from the playoffs, I see no reason for them to ship of the guy who has been the face of their franchise for over a decade.
I'd rather have Modano than Peca, but only slightly.

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03-26-2008, 05:42 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Top Shelf View Post
He's on pace for over 50+ points...he makes 2.25 million over the next two years. His cap hit is higher but we don't care b/c we'll never spend to it. He's played for Hitch. He's a veteran who knows how to win. He can play in any situation. I personally think he'd be a great stop gap until a guy like Brassard is ready and we aren't breaking the bank to get him.

The reason I think he may be "obtainable" is that Dallas may be ready to turn the page on the Modano era after he broke the US scoring record and they have their top two centers in Ribeiro and Richards (Richards )... They also move cap space to address bigger needs for them.

This team still needs veterans and I think he would be a good fit in the 2nd line center position and really help on the PP. Watching him plenty this year I think he's got plenty left in the tank.

Seriously, who could you find better for 2.25 million? That' probably what a 30 point producer and oft-injured Peca will want.

Then you still have plenty of dough to play with to go out and still try to get a younger more long term solution like Carter and address your defensive needs.

I have no idea if he's on the block but he's an option I'd definitey look into.
He would represent veteran leadership and would buy us another year for someone in our own organization to develop on the second line (aka the never ending experiment)...but at 38 I wonder how much gas he has left in the tank and it sure smacks of a strategy we've used in the past that hasn't worked. I am assuming of course, that we would have to overpay him to get him here as well.

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03-26-2008, 07:33 AM
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He would represent veteran leadership and would buy us another year for someone in our own organization to develop on the second line (aka the never ending experiment)...but at 38 I wonder how much gas he has left in the tank and it sure smacks of a strategy we've used in the past that hasn't worked. I am assuming of course, that we would have to overpay him to get him here as well.
How does is smack of strategy we've used in the past? He wouldn't be brought in to be a #1 guy? He would be brought in as a #2 for 2.25 a year? How many centers can you find that can put up 50 points for 2.25 a year?

Heck we are paying Manny 1.5 for 25 points a year. Peca 1.3 for 30 points. Modano would give us better value than any of those two.

This isn't Fedorov here where we'd be paying 6 mil for 40 points.

..and this certainly wouldn't be the only piece. In fact I think it would give us more money to play with in to bring in bigger pieces elsewhere including a legit #1 center and d-man.

This lineup does need complimented with a veteran or two who can still compete. Can't just be a bunch of young guys.

As far as price I'd start with a 2nd and mid to low tier prospect. If that doesn't get him I move on.

Just an option.

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03-26-2008, 09:25 AM
  #91
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How does is smack of strategy we've used in the past? He wouldn't be brought in to be a #1 guy? He would be brought in as a #2 for 2.25 a year? How many centers can you find that can put up 50 points for 2.25 a year?

Heck we are paying Manny 1.5 for 25 points a year. Peca 1.3 for 30 points. Modano would give us better value than any of those two.

This isn't Fedorov here where we'd be paying 6 mil for 40 points.

..and this certainly wouldn't be the only piece. In fact I think it would give us more money to play with in to bring in bigger pieces elsewhere including a legit #1 center and d-man.

This lineup does need complimented with a veteran or two who can still compete. Can't just be a bunch of young guys.

As far as price I'd start with a 2nd and mid to low tier prospect. If that doesn't get him I move on.

Just an option.
His age and his pedigree are very similar to Fedorovs, but probably the most important factor(the price tag) is vastly different. 2-3 million for a 50 point center is a good deal, add in his experience and leadership qualities.....yeah I'd be down with that move.

If nothing else, this thread shows us just how many options Howson has to play with. Just to summarize some of the names tossed out as viable options at Center next season.

Marleau
J Carter
Vermette
Lombardi
Langkow
Modano

and I'm probably missing a few. The UFA market isn't great for centers, but Howson has some options none the less. I'm doubtful Marleau would happen, or be worth the price tag if it did, nor do I feel we're going to get a true top line stud to center Nash(unless you think Langkow is in that tier of players). Instead I see a couple solid 2nd tier centers coming in and more centering by committee in our future until one of the youngsters truly emerges(Brassard?).

Lets rate these guys, from A to F, based on current level of play, and comment on whether they have peaked, are on the rise, or on the decline career wise. If you want add a name, go for it. Just make sure its a legitimate possible candidate for the job(no Zetterbergs for example).

Marleau B+, he has peaked and is in his prime, what u c is what u get.
J Carter B-, he's young and he's big, I think he has B+ potential.
Vermette B, a little more developed than Carter and still improving, A- potential.
Lombardi C+, Fast 3rd line Center that could grow into 2nd line duty, B potential.
Langkow B+, solid 2 way guy, GRITTY, he's peaked as well.
Modano B, lots of savvy, like Fedorov in that respect, but at 1/3 the price tag.


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Old
03-26-2008, 09:34 AM
  #92
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How does is smack of strategy we've used in the past? He wouldn't be brought in to be a #1 guy? He would be brought in as a #2 for 2.25 a year? How many centers can you find that can put up 50 points for 2.25 a year?
Arguably, Brendan Morrison has the same skill set, is a bit younger and will cost around the same price...and he's a free agent, which means that you give up no picks or prospects to get him if you can sign him.

As I've said with Peca, I'd rather take a chance on someone like Stoll or Lombardi with more upside potential.

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03-26-2008, 09:57 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Marleau B+, he has peaked and is in his prime, what u c is what u get.
J Carter B-, he's young and he's big, I think he has B+ potential.
Vermette B, a little more developed than Carter and still improving, A- potential.
Lombardi C+, Fast 3rd line Center that could grow into 2nd line duty, B potential.
Langkow B+, solid 2 way guy, GRITTY, he's peaked as well.
Modano B, lots of savvy, like Fedorov in that respect, but at 1/3 the price tag.
Nice list.. .I'd also add:

Brendan Morrison - a bit up there in age but has been a very consistant scorer unfortunately ran into injury trouble this season - 6 season of 50+ points - could be a nice 2nd line guy and would only cost us money to get

PM Bouchard - he's a RFA with Minny and I've heard rumblings that he and Lemaire don't get along to well... 3 seasons with over 50 points.. young and is an RFA.. may want to much dough.. more of a playmaker... only 25/26.. could be a trade target.

Umberger - if they keep Carter he may be available via trade... he's got 12g, 37a ifor 49p in 71 gps... only 26 years old... more of a playmaker it seems which would suit Nash or Modin... another option...

Pavelski - another RFA... just seen some Sharks fans offereing this guy up as trade bait.. worth looking into.. 23/24 year old who seems to be working his way up the San Jose depth chart.. has 33p in 76gp... not sure why they would want to deal him but I kick the tires..

The more options the better right.

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03-26-2008, 10:09 AM
  #94
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Nice list.. .I'd also add:

Brendan Morrison - a bit up there in age but has been a very consistant scorer unfortunately ran into injury trouble this season - 6 season of 50+ points - could be a nice 2nd line guy and would only cost us money to get

PM Bouchard - he's a RFA with Minny and I've heard rumblings that he and Lemaire don't get along to well... 3 seasons with over 50 points.. young and is an RFA.. may want to much dough.. more of a playmaker... only 25/26.. could be a trade target.

Umberger - if they keep Carter he may be available via trade... he's got 12g, 37a ifor 49p in 71 gps... only 26 years old... more of a playmaker it seems which would suit Nash or Modin... another option...

Pavelski - another RFA... just seen some Sharks fans offereing this guy up as trade bait.. worth looking into.. 23/24 year old who seems to be working his way up the San Jose depth chart.. has 33p in 76gp... not sure why they would want to deal him but I kick the tires..

The more options the better right.
Jarrett Stoll. One more for the growing list.

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03-26-2008, 05:08 PM
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How does is smack of strategy we've used in the past? He wouldn't be brought in to be a #1 guy? He would be brought in as a #2 for 2.25 a year? How many centers can you find that can put up 50 points for 2.25 a year?

Heck we are paying Manny 1.5 for 25 points a year. Peca 1.3 for 30 points. Modano would give us better value than any of those two.

This isn't Fedorov here where we'd be paying 6 mil for 40 points.

..and this certainly wouldn't be the only piece. In fact I think it would give us more money to play with in to bring in bigger pieces elsewhere including a legit #1 center and d-man.

This lineup does need complimented with a veteran or two who can still compete. Can't just be a bunch of young guys.

As far as price I'd start with a 2nd and mid to low tier prospect. If that doesn't get him I move on.

Just an option.
Don't you think it's pretty risky for the organization to bring in a big name center who has played his entire career in Dallas and who now, at age 38 is coming to "help us"?

I'm actually thinking that it's something we should at least consider doing, but I'm not sure that this move isn't a bit too risky for Mr. Howson--he will be 38...

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03-26-2008, 05:55 PM
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Don't you think it's pretty risky for the organization to bring in a big name center who has played his entire career in Dallas and who now, at age 38 is coming to "help us"?

I'm actually thinking that it's something we should at least consider doing, but I'm not sure that this move isn't a bit too risky for Mr. Howson--he will be 38...
I dont have a problem brining in a guy who is 38 and only making $2.5 mill. If Feds only made that much I would not have been PubOFH until Foote took his crap on our City.

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03-26-2008, 06:36 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PubOFH View Post
I dont have a problem brining in a guy who is 38 and only making $2.5 mill. If Feds only made that much I would not have been PubOFH until Foote took his crap on our City.
Agreed on that, but at 38 one has to ask how much gas he has left in the tank...

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03-26-2008, 06:57 PM
  #98
Stretch Factor
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I don't want to be a negative Nancy here, but let's get back to the topic at hand.

Mike Modano, whether we might like to have him or not is not going to be a Columbus Blue Jacket next year. So let's stay on topic.

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Old
03-27-2008, 12:15 AM
  #99
Casework
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You guys remember how Briere's name was thrown around in the Dispatch? Could that be Philly's plan to be able to re-sign Jeff Carter?

But, (why) would Briere waive his NMC to come here?

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03-27-2008, 06:25 AM
  #100
X0ssbar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch Factor View Post
I don't want to be a negative Nancy here, but let's get back to the topic at hand.

Mike Modano, whether we might like to have him or not is not going to be a Columbus Blue Jacket next year. So let's stay on topic.
Oh give me a break with this on topic nonsense. We are speculating on potential centers in this thread and getting Mike Modano is just as plausable as landing a Jeff Carter or Antoinne Vermette.

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