I know there was a discussion earlier regarding which Canadiens player would have his number retired next. A lot of people thought that Patrick Roy would be next. Do you still think that it will be the case with all of the press he's been getting over this fighting incident?
I hope that it won't change the decision but I fear that it will...
Anyway, just looking for other people's thoughts...
I hope you're not terribly upset if his number isn't retired. I wouldn't be.
He's the last man to lead this team to a cup and he took the team on his back while doing it. This man was a solid competitor and a top 3 goalie of all time to play the game, give me a break about not having class he deserves his number in the rafters and I won't be surprised if it's hanging up there by next year.
Doesn't count. Patrick was in Colorado. Unless you want to retire Frank Mahovlich's jersey and Doug Gilmour's jersey, we should only count what was done WITH MONTREAL.
I TOTALLY agree! The only thing is, Patrick absolutely did NOT always excel in the Playoffs.
The other night, I was watching on the NHL network a 2 hour summary of the 1990 series we lost to Boston. I was just SICK. Weak goal after weak goal. Andy Moog CLEARLY outshining Roy. This guy Carter was scoring from every angle imaginable. Weak backhands, long usncreened slapshots going in. This was the Patrick Roy of the 1990 playoffs.
Not only 1990, though. I am old enough to remember my frustration in 1988, in 1991, 1992, and 1994.
Take 1994. Patrick had a great game 5 in Boston, stopped 60 shots in double overtime game. However, we were only tied in that series 2-2 going into the game, instead of winning 4-0, because Roy had previously stunk out the joint.
Then Patrick was ill and missed game 6, which Tugnutt unfortunately lost. We went to game 7, and the winning goal for Boston was a 60 foot unscreened shot. Jimminy crickets. The series should have been over in 4 games and we pulled defeat from the jaw of victory.
NO WAY!! Guy Lafleur did not quit on his team in the middle of a game, in the middle of a career where he was contributing and needed by his teammates. Guy's best years were all with the Habs. Guy RETIRED late in 1984, having seen his skills erode over a four-year period before giving up. (Tobacco )
Larry Robinson left in the off-season at age 38 after a long and brilliant career. Geoffrion was traded by the Habs when he was past his prime. Serge Savard played ALL of his prime years here as well. Every name up in the rafters played ALL of his prime years in Montreal. I don't see why Patrick's name should go up before Guy Lapointe's or Butch Bouchard's? At the present time, given the standard of excellence required, Roy's CAREER IN MONTREAL, while excellent at times, and good overall, makes him fall short.
Given the number of Hall of Famer Habs, it takes MORE than a Hall of Fame career to get your jersey retired in Montreal.
In Buffalo, Danny Gare can be honoured, and in Saint Louis, Bernie Federko, but in Montreal, we still haven't got around to Butch Bouchard, Guy Lapointe, Steve Shutt, Bill Durnan, Tom Johnson, Jacques Lemaire. It's just tougher in Montreal, and I'm ok with that.
His accomplishments in Colorado don't count in his favour. They may even count in his DISFAVOUR. You tell the President of the Club on National TV that you have worn the hallowed jersey for the last time, the club should grant your wish - in eternity.
Yes, his accomplishments STILL matter in Colorado. If his accomplishments in Colorado don't matter, then why should his ''domestic violence'' matter??..that happened in Colorado!..why should his incident saturday matter, it was for the Rempart!..
If you're gonna say only his stay in MTL matters, and exclude all the great things he still accomplished elsewhere after, why should we not exclude the BAD things he also did ELSEWHERE!..
This is ridiculous.
And Roy would have retired a Habs if Ronald Corey and Rejean Houle knew how to run a freaking team!..
How can you possibly still hold the way Patrick left against him..You know as well as everybody else that Corey&Houle completely ruined the Habs.
Roy was an amazing goalie. Using the fact he lost a PO serie to Moog or whoever else is completely dumb.
Did Brodeur win them all???..Yet im sure you'd agree Brodeur deserves to het his Jersey retired as soon as he's done.
Can You imagine if Brodeur had Corey and Houle running things over him instead of Lamariello?? You think Brodeur would still be in NJ today???..
Patrick was amazing over here. He brought us 2cups in what?..10years??..He's had tougher seasons like every single player in the league, it doesn't take anything away from him.
And like I said, read the thread title, it doesn't say whether or not Roy deserves to be the next guy to have his jersey retired. He doesn't. There's a bunch of players that do. But Roy certainly deserves to have his Jersey removed eventually without a slightest doubt.
The sole fact that i dont think anybody in the league has the courage to wear a #33 Jersey solidifies that point.
And ask any player that played with him(as an hab)..and they'll say he deserves it.
Whether his best numbers are in Colorado. He still accomplished a lot in MTL and deserves his Jersey be retired. You know no Goalie in the NHL will ever wear #33, what does that tell you?
Most career wins.
Most playoff wins.
Most career playoff shutouts.
2-time Vezina Winner
Most 30 win seasons.
Most games and minutes by a goaltender.
11-time All-Star
And only player with 3 or more Conn Smythe Trophies.
In comparison to other goalies who are considered to be good / great:
Joseph 2.78 GAA, .907%, 51 SO, 448 wins
Belfour 2.50 GAA, .906%, 76 SO, 484 wins
Brodeur 2.20 GAA, .913%, 96 SO, 534 wins
Hasek 2.20 GAA, .922%, 80 SO, 386 wins
Barasso 3.24 GAA, .892%, 38 SO, 369 wins
Luongo 2.58 GAA, .920%, 38 SO, 196 wins
Roy 2.50 GAA, .913%, 66 SO, 551 wins
Statistically only behind Brodeur and Hasek. Throw in the playoff heroics, how is he not one of the top 5 goalies of all-time. Isn't that enough to warrant a place as an all-time great?
Yeah, his legend is really overblown.
Last edited by lou4gehrig: 03-27-2008 at 04:55 PM.
For me, it's more than on ice play. There's more than only on-ice achievements when it's time to consider whose jersey should be hanging up there in Montreal.
Ranked in order of priority (10 being the most important, 1 being really minor)
-Actual hockey achievements (10 : Obviously this is THE factor to consider here. You need to have done great things on the ice while you were a member of the team for such a storied franchise as the habs to retire your jersey.)
Incredible amazing out of this world performances at the highest level. Youngest to win a smythe, you name it. His peaks were incredible and I'd say that this is what matters the most. Ultimately, he was the major reason behind 2 stanley cup trophy for the franchise.
So 2 cups, 2 smythes in Montreal, I'd say he definately checks here. More than that, his performances are hard to fully appreciate.
-Loyalty to the jersey (9 : This is almost as important as the performances. How can you think of honoring a player who would not have any loyalty to your franchise ? If you're retiring a jersey, it's a relationship and an undying link that is forged/bonded with player and team. It has to be both ways.)
He made the worst exit a player has ever made out of any sports that i know of. Going to the president to tell him you'd never play again for the team during a hockey game broadcasted across the nation is simply unqualifiable, unexcusable.
How can you honor the jersey of someone who spit on that jersey and as a result of his action brought years and years of misery to the franchise by putting a terrible GM into the worst position you could think of ?
After leaving the habs, Roy kept taking shots at the players, management, and what have you. I am unsure how he could possibly come back to the bell centre to have a ceremony held for him after how much trash he's talked.
BIG TIME FAIL HERE.
-Consistence in excellence (6)
As baseball coach pointed out, Roy has been less than consistent for the habs over his years here. He was MUCH more consistent with the avalanches.
I'll let BBC argue his point here as he's much more informed, has better memory of it all, and is more eloquent than I can be.
I'd not say this is a huge factor. It's fairly important. But if #1 and #2 checks out, then you can probably ignore this IMHO.
-Class off the ice (3 : Class off the ice is a factor. Is it an important one ? I'd say it's still fairly important, but if the above 2-3 category checks, it should not be a big deal. After all you are honoring a player for his contributions to the team. The image that is associated to the team from the player has some importance, but ultimately it's the results that matter.)
Playing mind games with a minor league goaltender during the memorial cup finals.
Giving the ok to his 19 years old son to go beat up a 16 years old that had absolutely no intention to fight and getting himself and his son suspended for it.
And much more, I won't get into here. I think it's safe to say that Roy is not a classy individual off the ice and I don't like his image being linked to that of the habs from that perspective.
Conclusion :
Remember people that the montreal canadiens are a STORIED franchise. The most storied franchise out of any sports except maybe the yankees. We have had so many great players and great teams. But not only great players. We have had great players that have played the majority of their career with the habs and have shown nothing but class doing it. I don't think you can say the same about Patrick Roy. Oh how I wished it wasn't so. I wish Roy had played all of his career with us but Roy took the easy way out, and ended his career as the winningest goaltender of all time as a result.
Do I blame him for it ? Yes and no. As a fan of the habs, I am still upset over the way he decided to end his career as a hab. But at the same time, if I were in his shoes I'd have wanted to leave Mtl too. His career would have taken a turn for the worse if he had stayed here. But habs great would have NEVER done that. Lafleur preferred retirement over another team. And all of the other all time greats with their jersey hanging up there played their prime with Mtl and had the utmost loyalty for the team and jersey. Roy decided he was more important than the habs, and that is his decision and I respect it. That makes him a hockey all time great, but it unfortunately doesn't make him a HABS all time great. When Roy raised his arms in the air at the fans and went straight for the president during the infamous blowout against the wings he gave up on the team, gave up on the franchise and the team should not honor him for it.
He was a special goaltender for the Habs, but I do not want to see him get his jersey retired...he felt he was bigger than the team, and that was enough for me to say no way...I have always felt this way since his departure, all the other negative stuff, in Colorado, and now in the Q...who cares...
We have had great players that have played the majority of their career with the habs and have shown nothing but class doing it.
This statement is overblown. Many of our great players have had imperfect pasts. The only difference is most of us weren't old enough to be hurt by this fact. Roy was around when most of us were kids and we were directly impacted. That's the only difference.
Didn't Plante have a similar disagreement with Toe Blake that caused him to be traded?
Didn't Dryden sit out an entire season over a contract dispute?
Didn't Rocket Richard injure a player and two linesmen in the 1955 season to get suspended and miss the playoffs?
Didn't Harvey organize the players association in direct opposition to the Canadiens organization leading to his trade?
Or the less than ideal ways the Serge Savard or Robinson or Lafleur left the Canadiens?
You make it sound like every great Canadien had a perfect career like Beliveau or Gainey.
As time pasts, great players and legends are only remembered for their greatness and not their weakness. All everybody needs to do is view Roy with the same rose colored glasses they view the rest of our great players. If they used the same measuring stick, very few of the great players would have their numbers retired.
Last edited by lou4gehrig: 03-27-2008 at 05:18 PM.
This statement is overblown. Many of our great players have had imperfect pasts. The only difference is most of us weren't old enough to be hurt by this fact. Roy was around when most of us were kids and we were directly impacted. That's the only difference.
This is a good point. But at the same time, a lot of those jerseys were retired after everyone had forgotten about the negatives. Roy's jersey shouldn't be retired that soon at any rate when everything he's done wrong is still so fresh in all of our minds.
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Didn't Dryden sit out an entire season over a contract dispute?
Is that really such a big deal when you consider the man's whole career ? Players were getting the short end of the stick back then. I can't fault the man for trying to better his life.
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Didn't Rocket Richard injure a player and two linesmen in the 1955 season to get suspended?
Don't really see the harm here. He played with passion and had a hot temper. Gave everything he had for the habs, and that is no different.
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Or the less than ideal ways the Serge Savard or Robinson left the Canadiens? EDIT : you added Lafleur
After they had given their prime years to the habs and done so much.
I honestly am not aware of exactly how everything transpired here, but remember how long it took for them to get their jersey retired. As opposed to how long it would take for Roy to have his jersey retired if we were to do it next year. Also, people will remember and know how Roy left the habs in 20 years. It's an infamous moment of habs history. How Savard and Robinson left can't possibly have been as bad.
EDIT :
As for Lafleur, as I said in my post, Lafleur was given a really hard time by Lemaire, a former teamate, yet he didn't go straight for the president and say he was done playing for the team and wanted to be traded. He took the classy, loyal way out and retired.
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As time pasts, great players and legends are only remembered for their greatness and not their weakness. All everybody needs to do is view Roy with the same rose colored glasses they view the rest of our great players.
Great players and legends who have their jersey retired with the habs are only remembered for their great moments because they far outshine their weakest.
In the case of Roy, I'd say it kinda evens out here. Which is why his jersey should NOT be retired IMO.
EDIT 2 : which is why his jersey should not be retired FOR NOW (and IMO ever, but next year is way too soon as far as I'm concerned)
Yes, his accomplishments STILL matter in Colorado. If his accomplishments in Colorado don't matter, then why should his ''domestic violence'' matter??..that happened in Colorado!..why should his incident saturday matter, it was for the Rempart!..
If you're gonna say only his stay in MTL matters, and exclude all the great things he still accomplished elsewhere after, why should we not exclude the BAD things he also did ELSEWHERE!..
This is ridiculous.
Ridiculous? Ridicilous is how you mis-read me! I NEVER said that "domestic violence" or the incident from the past weekend should count one iota! ZERO, nada, zilch. Go back to my first post in the thread if you want proof. All that counts is how he played for Montreal, and, perhaps, if it's a close call, how he left the team.
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Originally Posted by Kriss E
And Roy would have retired a Habs if Ronald Corey and Rejean Houle knew how to run a freaking team!..
How can you possibly still hold the way Patrick left against him..You know as well as everybody else that Corey&Houle completely ruined the Habs.
Roy cost us the 1994 series, and then was partly responsible for the debacle which was the whole 1995 season. Serge Savard was ready to trade him (for a much better return than Houle got), so no, I don't agree that he would have retired a Hab if only Houle knew how to run a team.
Also, you write as if Roy was justified in making a national spectacle of himself and quitting on the Habs because of his treatment in one game. You are buying into his temper tantrum. You shouldn't. He had options. Henri Richard threw a tantrum over Al McNeil, and spoke up puiblicly, but he stuck with the team and proved his worth to the club ON THE ICE. Guess what? Richard stayed, McNeil left! Larry Robinson soured on Jean Perron, who embarassed him a few times. Larry stayed on and played on like a pro. Perron soon left.
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Originally Posted by Kriss E
Roy was an amazing goalie. Using the fact he lost a PO serie to Moog or whoever else is completely dumb.
Did Brodeur win them all???..
Patrick didn't lose ONE playoff series to Andy Moog. He lost THREE to Moog, ONE to Lemelin, and ONE to Jon Casey for Chrissakes. He was outgoaled in the 1989 finals as well by Mike Vernon.
It is as dumb to disqualify Roy for one or two bad playoffs as it is to canonize him for two great playoffs. The thing is, he had FIVE bad playoffs, NOT even including the disappointment of the 1989 finals. The reality is that Patrick, especially in his first ten years, was quite inconsistent. His best years, as a whole, were in Colorado. He had a better save percentage there, and a better GAA despite a far worse defence corps.
In Montreal, Roy's regular season numbers were very good, but so were Brian Hayward's, who played alongside him. Surely Hayward is not HOF material! The truth is that we had Chris Chelios, Larry Robinson, Rick Green, Craig Ludwig and Petr Svoboda playing in front of them. That was BY FAR the best defence corps in the league for several years.
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Originally Posted by Kriss E
Patrick was amazing over here. He brought us 2cups in what?..10years??..He's had tougher seasons like every single player in the league, it doesn't take anything away from him.
Frank Mahovlich had two amazing playoffs for Montreal and was key in two cups, but we aren't retiring his number.
The Habs have had so MANY players with two Cups that this criteria is simply not enough.
Roy's performances would be good enough to have his number retired on virtually any other team in the league, but here, there are some names that need to come first. And he left at 30 years old............
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Originally Posted by Kriss E
And like I said, read the thread title, it doesn't say whether or not Roy deserves to be the next guy to have his jersey retired. He doesn't. There's a bunch of players that do. But Roy certainly deserves to have his Jersey removed eventually without a slightest doubt.
If Guy Lapointe and Butch Bouchard get their numbers retired, I would be ready to look at the next group, such as Steve Shutt, Jacques Lemaire, Tom Johnson, maybe Patrick Roy. However, one additional problem with Patrick Roy compared to ANY OTHER PLAYER whose name is up there in the rafters, is that he did NOT play almost his entire career, including all his best years, in Montreal. The others all did. That has to mean something.
Again, responding to the thread title, my answer is no, the bad press should have no effect. I agree with you on this. The question is SOLELY whether Roy meets the criteria established through precedent of serving the MONTREAL CANADIENS for virtually a whole career at a consistently great level . I think he falls short on one count for sure, and the other one is legitimately debatable.
Doug Harvey was an Alcoholic, Rocket Richard HIT A REFEREE {actually he did this SEVEREL times, it was not only once}, Guy Lafleur badmouthed the team badly in his "tell-all" book. Beliveau never wanted to play for the Habs, Selke had to BUY the whole friggin Quebec Senior Hockey League to FORCE Beliveau to play for the team.
The only thing Roy did ... was slam a few doors in the privacy of his own home. And tell off the team president during a game after the coach publicly humiliated him. I can't believe how petty and shameful some fans can be. We treat a guy who PUNCHED REFEREES like a revered god... but Roy should be treated like a leper because he lost his head one time when he was being publicly humiliated by Tremblay?
Give me a freaking break.
What counts is what he did on the ice.
He's considered one of.. if not THE greatest goaltender of all time. He was the SYMBOL of the Canadiens for a decade....
Great players and legends who have their jersey retired with the habs are only remembered for their great moments because they far outshine their weakest.
In the case of Roy, I'd say it kinda evens out here. Which is why his jersey should NOT be retired IMO.
I don't agree. Patrick Roy was amazing, here and Colorado, although his numbers favors more Colorado. He was still great here, If you're still bitter about how he left, then that's YOUR problem, Not his. I don't see how this outshines his 2Cups here.
Further more, if you have one inch of common sense, you would blame Corey-Houle and even Tremblay for the horrible management of our team and its complete dismantlement.
A lot of players would have acted the same way had they been in his shoes. The only difference is maybe they would have been more discrete about it but what do you want Roy is like that.
Dont forget the crowd was booing Roy quite often, yet the people are still pissed he left the way he did. I think its very hypocritical and ridiculous.
The man accomplished the impossible as a rookie. He played amazing thoughout his career but like everybody he's human and makes mistakes.
He got us another unexpected cup in 93.
He won numerous other awards here, his accomplishments overshadow his flaws big time. He didn't **** or kill anybody, some morons call him wife-beaters when they don't even know what happen.
Again, responding to the thread title, my answer is no, the bad press should have no effect. I agree with you on this. The question is SOLELY whether Roy meets the criteria established through precedent of serving the MONTREAL CANADIENS for virtually a whole career at a consistently great level . I think he falls short on one count for sure, and the other one is legitimately debatable.
You bring up really good points. A lot of people will completely refuse to see any of them because their memories / knowledge of Roy's best moments just obnubilate his worst.
Personally, I think his worst moments are worse than all of the other all time greats who have had their jersey retired. It's pretty much how he acted during that wings game, his consistency and his class outside the rink VS those two cups and smythes where he gave INCREDIBLE performances at the perfect times.
I don't agree. Patrick Roy was amazing, here and Colorado, although his numbers favors more Colorado. He was still great here, If you're still bitter about how he left, then that's YOUR problem, Not his. I don't see how this outshines his 2Cups here.
Further more, if you have one inch of common sense, you would blame Corey-Houle and even Tremblay for the horrible management of our team and its complete dismantlement.
A lot of players would have acted the same way had they been in his shoes. The only difference is maybe they would have been more discrete about it but what do you want Roy is like that.
Dont forget the crowd was booing Roy quite often, yet the people are still pissed he left the way he did. I think its very hypocritical and ridiculous.
The man accomplished the impossible as a rookie. He played amazing thoughout his career but like everybody he's human and makes mistakes.
He got us another unexpected cup in 93.
He won numerous other awards here, his accomplishments overshadow his flaws big time. He didn't **** or kill anybody, some morons call him wife-beaters when they don't even know what happen.
The man deserves it.
I'd rather not argue with blatant biased Roy fanboys that have little to no objectivism.
See lou4gehrig as an example of a post that is made in disagreement, and is yet still respectful.
You bring up really good points. A lot of people will completely refuse to see any of them because their memories / knowledge of Roy's best moments just obnubilate his worst.
Personally, I think his worst moments are worse than all of the other all time greats who have had their jersey retired. It's pretty much how he acted during that wings game, his consistency and his class outside the rink VS those two cups and smythes where he gave INCREDIBLE performances at the perfect times.
Yea...because im sure you've fallowed all of the players that have their jersey retired.
Like Mabus said, many of them have done worst things than Roy, but nobody talks about it because its so long ago.
The way he acted vs the Wings should NOT be held against him..
What about all the fans booing him and clapping when he made a save??...oh yeah...they were all innocent!..What about Tremblay who keeps his #1 Goalie in for 9Goals??..suuuure..he's innocent as well!..
Its all on Roy!!..That *******!!!...
Not only is he not getting a fair treatment because some hate him, some are still bitter and because he's such a public figure, but this only comes from critics.
All of the players that played with him, and his coaches are saying he should get his jersey retired. I wonder who's more right here..????..
Yea...because im sure you've fallowed all of the players that have their jersey retired.
Like Mabus said, many of them have done worst things than Roy, but nobody talks about it because its so long ago.
The way he acted vs the Wings should NOT be held against him..
What about all the fans booing him and clapping when he made a save??...oh yeah...they were all innocent!..What about Tremblay who keeps his #1 Goalie in for 9Goals??..suuuure..he's innocent as well!..
Its all on Roy!!..That *******!!!...
Not only is he not getting a fair treatment because some hate him, some are still bitter and because he's such a public figure, but this only comes from critics.
All of the players that played with him, and his coaches are saying he should get his jersey retired. I wonder who's more right here..????..
I'd rather not argue with blatant biased Roy fanboys that have little to no objectivism.
See lou4gehrig as an example of a post that is made in disagreement, and is yet still respectful.
Where's yours??..
See Mabus's post..
Why should Roy be punished when all of the Greats already retired have done similar if not WORST things?..
I was a Nordiques fan, i only became a fan of Roy in Colorado. So i hated him with the Habs. But I recognize skill, and he was amazing, on top of his accomplishments, thats ALL that should matter here.
The only thing that should count is what he did or didn't do for the Habs. He was the Habs best player while he was here, but I have doubts as to whether he stayed here for enough of his career to make it. .. Those guys were Habs for most or all of their careers.
I think that's the only legitimate concern I have.
The number of cups could come into play but that's a standard that will have to be lessened for the next generations of retired numbers. Soon enough you will see players with only one cup win get retired, unless they never retire another number again wich I wouldn't disagree with either.
I would retire only #3 since he played half his carrer in Montreal and use the name Bouchard so peoeple don't get mad but tell Patrick in private that's it's really for him.
How can you honor the jersey of someone who spit on that jersey and as a result of his action brought years and years of misery to the franchise by putting a terrible GM into the worst position you could think of ?
Why do people keep on blaming him for how bad the Habs have been after he left?
No player can be made to blame for how crap the Habs have been over those decades.
Was it his fault that the GM couldn't make a decent trade if his life depended on it?
Was it his fault that the GM didn't have the ability to draft well even if his life depended on it?
Yes, he left the GM in a crap position and it could be disputed whether or not that is inexcusable or not but to say HE was the reason the Habs were crap is total nonsense. He's just one player. One player does not make a team. And besides, the Habs were already a fairly ho-hum team when he left.
As mentioned before, we had no business winning that cup in 93. Absolutely none. We looked like teenagers playing with adults except for Roy in net.
The years and years of misery was the fault of management. We only felt the misery after Roy left because that's when it was noticeable how crap the team was.
There were so many options that may have relieved that situation but there were too many ego's involved and too many management types that were too dumb to notice that the team was going into the dumpster and frankly too dumb to have solved the situation even IF they noticed.
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Originally Posted by E = CH²
But habs great would have NEVER done that. Lafleur preferred retirement over another team.
Err...I understand what you are trying to say and it does have merit but this example...are you suggesting that Roy, IF he was truly loyal to the team would sacrifice his career and retire in his prime before bolting?
Frankly wouldn't that also leave the team in the same situation?
I'll give you some tips how to not piss off people and not sound obnoxious when posting.
Saying things such as : "anyone that has an inch of common sense (anyone that thinks the same way I do)" is bad. People will assume you're saying they don't have common sense. This is seen as an insult and most people will just tend to ignore what you are saying after that.
The whole tone of your post was reeking of -I have an opinion, my opinion is correct, yours is not, you are probably dumb, hypocritical and ridiculous for thinking what you think-. I don't like having conversations with people that act that way. Sorry.
Brodeur banged his sister-in-law. His number should never be retired.
BUT Brodeur's on-ice performance were consistently always amazing.
AND he showed nothing but loyalty for the devils franchise over his WHOLE career.
The fact he banged his sister-in-law reflects poorly on his character. But it's such a minor, small deal that NO ONE will remember in 20 years.
EVERYONE will still remember how Roy put himself above the whole franchise by leaving the way he did in an unprecedented mediatized way and in doing so screwed the franchise royally.
This statement is overblown. Many of our great players have had imperfect pasts. The only difference is most of us weren't old enough to be hurt by this fact. Roy was around when most of us were kids and we were directly impacted. That's the only difference.
You make it sound like every great Canadien had a perfect career like Beliveau or Gainey.
As time pasts, great players and legends are only remembered for their greatness and not their weakness. All everybody needs to do is view Roy with the same rose colored glasses they view the rest of our great players. If they used the same measuring stick, very few of the great players would have their numbers retired.
That's a very good point. And as someone mentioned we shall see if Roy's bad points will be remembered just as much as his good points. Personally I think in 50 years time people may read about his departure but would frankly not care less other than his accomplishments because as you say, people only remember the greatness.
Personally I think it's too soon to retire his number if at all. As mentioned there are other worthy candidates that should be retired first. There is way too much bad blood between Roy and the organization (and fans for that matter) to have his jersey retired right now. In 20,30,40 years? Who knows.
)
and this would be the simple answer.
