HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Changing the Core!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-27-2008, 02:07 AM
  #1
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,019
vCash: 500
Changing the Core!

Last year, there was a lot of talk about "changing the core". As we know, we ended up in fact changing 2/3 of the long-term leadership, with the departure of Alternate Captains Rivet and Souray.

It's interesting to look back at these events now. If you will recall, while many feared we would miss Sheldon (-28) Souray the most on the power play, others dwelled on his inability to play adequate defence post-lockout.

In retrospect, while Shelly indeed simply could not shutdown Jason Spezza, it turns out that he was doing a fantastic job shutting down Alexei Kovalev!

THIS is where we miss Souray the most: in the locker room.

BaseballCoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 02:15 AM
  #2
Sumoki Dachiba
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 168
vCash: 500
Or the least.

Sumoki Dachiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 04:50 AM
  #3
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Last year, there was a lot of talk about "changing the core". As we know, we ended up in fact changing 2/3 of the long-term leadership, with the departure of Alternate Captains Rivet and Souray.

It's interesting to look back at these events now. If you will recall, while many feared we would miss Sheldon (-28) Souray the most on the power play, others dwelled on his inability to play adequate defence post-lockout.

In retrospect, while Shelly indeed simply could not shutdown Jason Spezza, it turns out that he was doing a fantastic job shutting down Alexei Kovalev!

THIS is where we miss Souray the most: in the locker room.
If we believe this sort of theory-du-jour. Even this late in Kovalev's career we continue to look for external reasons why his abundant talent has not been permitted to show itself night in and night out. Part of me admires this trait, who amongst us wouldn't welcome the ability to pass off their own occasional slothfulnes onto coworkers.

If we can give credit to Alex for making changes to himself this year we can't do it without recognizing that changes to Alex were long needed. I believe there lies the end of any argument that Souray or Rivet had a hand in making him the enigma he is/was.

It's a great turnaround perhaps the greatest I've seen in Montreal sports but I'm not allowing myself to let Kovalev off the hook for his previous work.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 05:19 AM
  #4
Bacchus1
Registered User
 
Bacchus1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seoul, Korea
Posts: 673
vCash: 500
Wouldn't really call Koivu, Rivet, and Sourey the CORE last year. They were definitely part of it ... but if only 3 players are your 'core' then you are in trouble!


Always thought Jack Todd was an idiot for announcing this asinine thought in writing in a major publication. Bad enough posters on line say it, but he is trying to be a respectable "sensationalist" writer.

Blame Kovalev for his faults and his brilliances. If Sourey really got Kovalev off of his game, then that is just another Kovalev weakness. I read somewhere that Kovalev lost weight, and trained hard. This probably has more to do with his turn-around than anything else.

Bacchus1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 07:57 AM
  #5
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,201
vCash: 500
If you think about it... not so long ago the team was built around Koivu up front, Theo in nets, and Brisebois, Rivet and Souray on D.

Now that the young talent has gotten better, Koivu is allowed the play a role better suited to him, and the other guys are gone or playing a support role.

So... I agree.

This is not a "one shot over the summer thing", the transformation has to take time if you are going to do it right.


Last edited by Joe Cole: 03-27-2008 at 08:03 AM.
Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 08:03 AM
  #6
Analyzer
#WeAreBoston
 
Analyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Renfrew, ON.
Country: Canada
Posts: 41,804
vCash: 500
Kostopulous and Smoklinski have great experience, especially Smokes. Montreal brought back Brisebois and added a permanent player and top 3 dman in Hamrlik.

Analyzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 08:13 AM
  #7
Bullsmith
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,173
vCash: 500
The big impact of having Souray and Rivet gone is that it created a need for other players to step up and lead. IMO their departure had a more direct effect on guys like Higgins and Komisarek, especially in the locker room, than it did on veterans like Kovalev.

Bullsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 08:14 AM
  #8
La Grosse Tendresse
Registered User
 
La Grosse Tendresse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rouyn-Noranda
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,480
vCash: 500
So Kovy sucked last season because of Souray?

Yeah, of course.

La Grosse Tendresse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 08:16 AM
  #9
Ross MacLochness
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,774
vCash: 500
Souray is the real leader of this team.

Ughh.

I don't know how many times I had to read this last year on HF, and wanted to rip my eyeballs out every time I did.

I think we are doing o.k. without his slapshot and "real leadership".

Ross MacLochness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 08:17 AM
  #10
Capitano
Registered User
 
Capitano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,297
vCash: 500
In my opinion, I think Kovy felt he couldn't be as vocal in the room because of guys like Rivet and Souray.

All the rumours about fighting in the dressing room, etc. Followed by Kovy missing some games with an elbow injury is just too obvious for me to forget.

Sheldon was a good team guy who would stick up for his teammates. Kovy is an ultra-talented player that can at times be an elite player. Both good elements to have, but obviously Souray expected more from Kovalev.

That's why team chemistry means more than a lot of people think.

Capitano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 08:44 AM
  #11
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,201
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
Souray is the real leader of this team.

Ughh.

I don't know how many times I had to read this last year on HF, and wanted to rip my eyeballs out every time I did.

I think we are doing o.k. without his slapshot and "real leadership".
I agree. As much as I appreciate a guy standing up and taking some responsability, IF through that he was decreasing the efficiency of other players... then we are better off without that "leadership".

Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 09:28 AM
  #12
Capitano
Registered User
 
Capitano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,297
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
I agree. As much as I appreciate a guy standing up and taking some responsability, IF through that he was decreasing the efficiency of other players... then we are better off without that "leadership".
At the end of the day, Sheldon IS a leader, but just not a very talented one. He had that big shot, and he would stick up for his teammates, but his game was full of holes.

I think Sheldon was upset that a guy like Kovy (with all the skill in the world) wouldn't perform for 80 games. At that point like I said, I think it was more of a personality conflict than anything else. Saku went into a swoon last year (like a lot of his seasons recently) and Souray didn't say peep about that.

So in the end I just think that Souray didn't like Kovy and thought he was dogging it. Kovy probably didn't show Souray enough respect, etc.

Anyway, this is all my opinion and just speculation on my part - but I definitely think there is a correlation between Souray's departure and Kovy's rejuvenated play.

Capitano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 09:42 AM
  #13
Puckhead58*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Last year, there was a lot of talk about "changing the core". As we know, we ended up in fact changing 2/3 of the long-term leadership, with the departure of Alternate Captains Rivet and Souray.

It's interesting to look back at these events now. If you will recall, while many feared we would miss Sheldon (-28) Souray the most on the power play, others dwelled on his inability to play adequate defence post-lockout.

In retrospect, while Shelly indeed simply could not shutdown Jason Spezza, it turns out that he was doing a fantastic job shutting down Alexei Kovalev!

THIS is where we miss Souray the most: in the locker room.

Its been a blessing this season without big dumb Sheldon Souray on our blueline, coughing up the puck, making terrible passes and players skating around him like he is a statue. I'm glad we didn't waste $6 million a year on this bum. He is a terrible defencemen and our powerplay doesn't miss him one bit.
Craig Rivet is in the same boat as far as I'm concerned. He is an overpaid, under-achieving defencemen. We got the best part of that trade, a 1st round pick PLUS Josh Gorges and we got rid of Rivets ridiculous contract too. Rivet's time in Montreal was done...and thank god Gainey seen that and got rid of him.

If the reason Alex Kovalev had a bad year last season was because of Souray and Rivet making things hard for him in the locker room and on the ice, then I'm very very happy that they are gone because this season Kovalev is refreshed and playing possibly the best hockey of his career. I'd take Kovalev playing well and leading the team over Rivet and Souray making mistake after mistake on our blueline and losing games for us like they have done so often in the past anyday.

I love the players we signed in the off-season. They are all contributing to the success of the team...especially Hamrlik. Without him I don't know where our team would be. It showed how important he is to our blueline when he missed 7 or 8 games after the allstar break. Kostopoulos even adds a lot to the team with his grit and no-fear style of play. Smolinski is the only disappointment, but even he has his good games and gets the occasional point and he is doing well on faceoffs for us too.

I hope that we don't make too many changes to the face of this team in the off-season because I like the players we have now and the style they play. Maybe the addition of a pure goal scorer would be ok, but for the most part I would like to see the team kept the same.

Puckhead58* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 09:53 AM
  #14
Blades 0f Steel
Registered User
 
Blades 0f Steel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Tibet
Posts: 11,523
vCash: 500
Speaking of 'the core', let's imagine this team without Kovalev and Koivu in 2 years(not wishful thinking, just a possibility).

A lot of people were looking to Higgins to become our Chris Drury, as it were. As of now, it's optimistic at best to want to pin our hopes on him. So...if the Habs want to keep rolling either someone steps up bigtime or Gainey has to trade for a talented character forward within a year from this off-season.

I think Pleks should be left to producing offensively and not asked to be a leader. Besides, as I've said before, he relies on his speed and tenacity to produce. Pleks has never had to endure a major injury, and I wonder how it would effect him over the years if he had to go through a string of injuries.

Blades 0f Steel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 10:25 AM
  #15
Guy Caballero
Registered User
 
Guy Caballero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,855
vCash: 500
I don't think Kovalev's resurgence has anything to do with Souray's departure. The change came from within.

Guy Caballero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 10:52 AM
  #16
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
In my opinion, I think Kovy felt he couldn't be as vocal in the room because of guys like Rivet and Souray.

All the rumours about fighting in the dressing room, etc. Followed by Kovy missing some games with an elbow injury is just too obvious for me to forget.

Sheldon was a good team guy who would stick up for his teammates. Kovy is an ultra-talented player that can at times be an elite player. Both good elements to have, but obviously Souray expected more from Kovalev.

That's why team chemistry means more than a lot of people think.
Sometimes elite? Top 15 in the NHL is elite if you ask me pal.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 10:56 AM
  #17
Brisk-Illusion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,159
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KostitsyntheBagBaby View Post
Speaking of 'the core', let's imagine this team without Kovalev and Koivu in 2 years(not wishful thinking, just a possibility).

A lot of people were looking to Higgins to become our Chris Drury, as it were. As of now, it's optimistic at best to want to pin our hopes on him. So...if the Habs want to keep rolling either someone steps up bigtime or Gainey has to trade for a talented character forward within a year from this off-season.

I think Pleks should be left to producing offensively and not asked to be a leader. Besides, as I've said before, he relies on his speed and tenacity to produce. Pleks has never had to endure a major injury, and I wonder how it would effect him over the years if he had to go through a string of injuries.
I really doubt Koivu will sign anywhere else, Kovalev I'm a bit more worried about tho.

I guess its interesting to visualize our team without signing any UFAs (including our own) in a couple of years and see what conclusions we can draw from it.

AK-Pleks(A)-SK
Higgins(A)-Grabovski-Lats
D'Agostini-Chipchura-Maxwell
White-Lapierre-Pacioretty

Markov(C)-Georges
Hamrlik-O'Byrne
Valentenko-McDonagh

Price
Halak

1-I'm not sure, but I think we're going to be OK in nets for a while
2-Re-siging Komi might actually not be essential if Georges continues to improve next year and two of O'Byrne-Valentenko-McDonagh-Emelin show they can play in the NHL on a regular basis
3-We're still weak in center, and might need to get a UFA center (cue in the Vinny 09' fanbase)
4-Even if we iced this team this, or next year, we'd probably still make the playoffs, so the future looks bright
5-We don't need Hossa or any other big-name UFA this summer

Brisk-Illusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 11:21 AM
  #18
Capitano
Registered User
 
Capitano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,297
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Sometimes elite? Top 15 in the NHL is elite if you ask me pal.
No doubt he is showing that this year. I think an elite player does it year in and year out though.

I'm a Kovy supporter, so I'm hoping his play continues.

Capitano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 11:26 AM
  #19
Arctic_Hab_Fan
Registered User
 
Arctic_Hab_Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 865
vCash: 500
Yep, Elite Player = Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy, Lafleur, Robinson, Ovechkin, Bobby Orr etc etc...those are ELITE players...they bring it every year not in spurts!

I like Kovalev but to call him elite is laughable.

Arctic_Hab_Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 12:04 PM
  #20
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic_Hab_Fan View Post
Yep, Elite Player = Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy, Lafleur, Robinson, Ovechkin, Bobby Orr etc etc...those are ELITE players...they bring it every year not in spurts!

I like Kovalev but to call him elite is laughable.
NO, those are FRANCHISE players....

Franchise > Elite

Their are at least 50 elite players in this league and Kovy is damn well one of them.

Kovalev is elite as he can change the game all by himself as he's done many times.

To say Kovy is not elite IS what is laughable.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 12:08 PM
  #21
Astaroth
Registered User
 
Astaroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Montreal,Qc
Posts: 1,651
vCash: 500
Kovalev has no one to blame for last season's debacle but himself. He was disinterested and lazy. And this season he's our MVP. Souray or anyone else have nothing to do with it.

Astaroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 12:27 PM
  #22
Capitano
Registered User
 
Capitano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,297
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
NO, those are FRANCHISE players....

Franchise > Elite

Their are at least 50 elite players in this league and Kovy is damn well one of them.

Kovalev is elite as he can change the game all by himself as he's done many times.

To say Kovy is not elite IS what is laughable.
I think he's playing like an elite player this year for sure.

Capitano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 12:28 PM
  #23
Arctic_Hab_Fan
Registered User
 
Arctic_Hab_Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 865
vCash: 500
Talented is what I call him, and when he applies his talent he is one force to be reckoned with. I don't call him Elite because of his prior lazy attitude, Elite players don't take years off, they apply themselves all the time. Remember I'm not discounting Kovalev as a Talented player, I just can't call him elite because he hasn't shown much interest in prior years to allevate himself to an Elite status (prior to this year).

Arctic_Hab_Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 12:35 PM
  #24
Capitano
Registered User
 
Capitano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,297
vCash: 500
Also, it's hard to argue whether a player is an "elite" player or not because the definition of an elite player is not written in stone.

Do you consider Marc Savard en elite player? Some do, some don't. I know I don't consider him one.

It's all opinion-based in the end.

I know one thing, a motivated Kovy is a dangerous Kovy. Not many players out there that can dominate a game like him when he is playing the way he is now.

Capitano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 12:36 PM
  #25
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic_Hab_Fan View Post
Talented is what I call him, and when he applies his talent he is one force to be reckoned with. I don't call him Elite because of his prior lazy attitude, Elite players don't take years off, they apply themselves all the time. Remember I'm not discounting Kovalev as a Talented player, I just can't call him elite because he hasn't shown much interest in prior years to allevate himself to an Elite status (prior to this year).
Well, you should make your own dictionary then.

Elite, is something that stands out. Most of the times, in this league, when you mention elite players, it has to do with talent, and Kovy, lazy or not, is an Elite talent.

I don't mind your opinion, but to say that it's laughable to say he's elite is pretty lame.

You don't consider Jagr elite because he's having an off year? His talent remains elite, because you will rarely find players who are able to do what he does, same as kovy.

Elite means to be superior than the common. You don't think Kovy is superior than the common, when, even last year, the average player got between 20 and 30 points, whereas Kovalev got 47?

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:15 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.