HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Lady Byng a proud award?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-27-2008, 08:52 PM
  #1
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,755
vCash: 500
Lady Byng a proud award?

In recent years the Lady Byng has gotten an even worse reputation of being an award for a soft player. Do you feel this is true. Here are, by the way a list of guys who have won it, starting in the '40s.

Bauer, Apps, Bentley, Blake, Kelly, Delvecchio, Keon, Hull, Mikita, Bucyk, Ratelle, Perreault, Dionne, Gretzky, Bossy, Kurri, Mullen, Brett Hull, Francis, Kariya, Sakic.

All of those players are legit Hall of Famers

Then there are very good players like Middleton, Goring, Kariya (possible HHOF) and Mogilny that won it too, not to mention Richards and Datsyuk. Good players certainyl can win it.

Now while the softies like Datsyuk, Turgeon and Mats Naslund are guys that sometimes give the trophy a bad name on the flip side a lot of elite clutch performers have won as well. Gretzky won it 5 times. Bossy three times. Kurri once. Syl Apps won it. And players that have won the Hart Trophy have won it too. Even the Art Ross. Players who were tenacious competitors (Goring) have captured it. Bucyk early in his career was actually a pretty feared hitter.

But the trophy has a stigma to it. Mogilny did not attend the awards ceremony when he won it. And there is the feeling that it is a snicker of a trophy to win. What is your opinion?

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 09:04 PM
  #2
SLAPSHOT723
QU! Bobcats!
 
SLAPSHOT723's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Long Island/NYC
Posts: 22,490
vCash: 500
if i were to win the lady byng trophy, id be pretty happy. it shows that ur a great player who just wants to play the game.

SLAPSHOT723 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 11:29 PM
  #3
BNHL
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 17,255
vCash: 500
All great players that are missing one dimension of play that I personally crave.

BNHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 11:36 PM
  #4
Loto68
Registered User
 
Loto68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Bauer, Apps, Bentley, Blake, Kelly, Delvecchio, Keon, Hull, Mikita, Bucyk, Ratelle, Perreault, Dionne, Gretzky, Bossy, Kurri, Mullen, Brett Hull, Francis, Kariya, Sakic.
How do you make a list of Byng winners and Not put Frank Boucher there, the man who one 7 in 8 years.

Loto68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2008, 11:47 PM
  #5
pappyline
Registered User
 
pappyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mass/formerly Ont
Country: United States
Posts: 4,294
vCash: 500
All these guys were great players and winning the Lady byng doesn't mean they weren't tough or physical. Bucyk was a great bodychecker, Hull took on Ferguson & beat him. There is nothing wrong with not looking for trouble but standing up for yourself. today, I listened to a radio interview with Mikita & Hull. Mikita related how Ted lindsay was his mentor. Both were small guys & lindsay told Mikita his philosophy was to get the other guy first. Mikita did this for several years until his 6 year old daughter asked why he sat by himself so much on the opposite side from his teammates. Mikita changed his style & started winning Lady Byngs.

Hull talked about the famous picture of blood streaming down his face after fighting ferguson. He said it was worse than it looked. He was crossibg the blueline when Fergy slashed him across the nose drawing blood. Hull said if it had been any body else -Provost, Beliveau, Goyette, henri richard-He would have let it go but when he saw it was Fergy he dropped his gloves & they went at it & Hull won the decision.

Some tough players won the lady Byng.

pappyline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 12:29 AM
  #6
MS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 20,963
vCash: 500
The award needs to be re-defined, badly. Or at least be awarded the way it was meant to be, like in the Original 6 era where it went to great players who played the game hard, the way it was meant to be played, and did so cleanly.

Right now, it's a wimp award to the soft player with the best pointsIM ratio, and not really a feather in the cap at all of the player who wins it. The word 'competitiveness' or 'grit' needs to be inserted into the award definition alongside clean play and skill level. Mike Grier led the league in hits one year while posting 30 PIM and would have been a great choice. Jay Pandolfo is a Selke contender who puts up ~10 PIM/year. And of course, the biggest travesty of all is that it seems impossible for a defender to win it - Niklas Lidstrom should have won 6 or 8 Byngs already in his career.

And take the 'Lady' out of the award and re-name it the Byng Trophy ... giving the trophy a female name doesn't help matters.

MS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 04:20 AM
  #7
Reds4Life
Registered User
 
Reds4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Czech Republic
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,563
vCash: 500
I think that player that can get 90+ points per season along with very few PIMs should not be ashamed, but proud.
Those "softies" expression are pretty odd, this is NHL, there are no softies for gods sake! Or do you want to claim Datsyuk is coward who is afraid to go to the corners? If yes then you never seen him play.

Reds4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 05:05 AM
  #8
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,281
vCash: 500
The idea that honour can be viewed as shameful saddens me...

__________________
Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
Nalyd Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 09:36 AM
  #9
Blue Dragon
Registered User
 
Blue Dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Country: Australia
Posts: 1,471
vCash: 500
Let us not also forget that the year Sakic won it he was also a Selke finalist. So no-one can say he was shy to check players when he won it.

Blue Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 10:13 AM
  #10
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 11,391
vCash: 500
Lidstrom has proving that checking and defense don't equate to hitting Blue Dragon, so the fact that Sakic was a Selke finalist doesn't prove he played physical.

I don't see how winning the award could be viewed as a nagative. On top of the prestige and immortality in history, IIRC the winner and other finalists also get a nice financial bonus from the NHL that doesn't count against the cap. Something like 100k or 250k.

FissionFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 12:08 PM
  #11
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loto68 View Post
How do you make a list of Byng winners and Not put Frank Boucher there, the man who one 7 in 8 years.
I was going to go back that far but decided to start around Blake's time in the '40s, I ran out of time

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 12:14 PM
  #12
BNHL
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 17,255
vCash: 500
Maybe if Ribeiro ever wins it they can call it the Bada Byng Award!

BNHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 12:26 PM
  #13
God Bless Canada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bentley reunion
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,790
vCash: 500
It should be one of the most prestigious awards in the league. We should be honouring sportsmanship. It's a virtue that we should be teaching our kids. Play hard, play tough, play aggressive. You can play physical in hockey, and not take a penalty.

I don't have qualms when guys like Middleton, Sakic and Francis win the award. They played hard. Middleton was one of the best penalty killers and two-way players in the league in the 80s.

MS made the point earlier, and it's one I've been emphasizing for years: it's become an award for the skilled forwards who get the fewest PIMs. Remember the Selke in the mid-90s? It went from the award for the best defensive forward in the league, to the award for the offensive forward who does the best at back-checking. Then the balloting hit rock-bottom in 1995-96, everyone really criticized the voters, and they got their act together.

Lidstrom, Leetch and Bourque should have all won the award. It's been more than 50 years since a defenceman won the Byng.

And the award needs a name change. Call it the Byng Award. Who wants to win the Lady Byng Award? Frank Boucher Award (and Boucher was an outstanding two-way forward) would be much more a propos.

God Bless Canada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 01:38 PM
  #14
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 30,962
vCash: 500
Mats Naslund, a softie....?!?!?! What would you want him to do, try to lay hits to guy 6 inches taller than him? Wasn't crushing anybody on the ice, but anybody that has the words Turgeon and Naslund and softie in the same sentence is clinically insane, unless they meant Markus Naslund.


Last edited by MXD: 03-28-2008 at 03:26 PM.
MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 02:12 PM
  #15
pappyline
Registered User
 
pappyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mass/formerly Ont
Country: United States
Posts: 4,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Mats Naslund, a softie....?!?!?! What would you want him to do, try to lay hits to guy 6 inches taller than him? Wasn't crushing anybody on the ice, but anybody that has the words Turgeon and Naslund is clinically insane, unless they meant Markus Naslund.
I agree. Mats Naslund was no softy.

pappyline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 04:46 PM
  #16
Mad Habber
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,719
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
In recent years the Lady Byng has gotten an even worse reputation of being an award for a soft player. Do you feel this is true. Here are, by the way a list of guys who have won it, starting in the '40s.

Bauer, Apps, Bentley, Blake, Kelly, Delvecchio, Keon, Hull, Mikita, Bucyk, Ratelle, Perreault, Dionne, Gretzky, Bossy, Kurri, Mullen, Brett Hull, Francis, Kariya, Sakic.

All of those players are legit Hall of Famers

Then there are very good players like Middleton, Goring, Kariya (possible HHOF) and Mogilny that won it too, not to mention Richards and Datsyuk. Good players certainyl can win it.

Now while the softies like Datsyuk, Turgeon and Mats Naslund are guys that sometimes give the trophy a bad name on the flip side a lot of elite clutch performers have won as well. Gretzky won it 5 times. Bossy three times. Kurri once. Syl Apps won it. And players that have won the Hart Trophy have won it too. Even the Art Ross. Players who were tenacious competitors (Goring) have captured it. Bucyk early in his career was actually a pretty feared hitter.

But the trophy has a stigma to it. Mogilny did not attend the awards ceremony when he won it. And there is the feeling that it is a snicker of a trophy to win. What is your opinion?
You think of Gretzky as deserving and Naslund a softie. Have you seen any of these guys play in their prime. Gretzky is as big a cream puff as there have ever been. Naslund went into all corners with or without the puck with other in pursuit. Often came out with it. Gretzky called his style has being where the puck was going to be. That may have been true often enough, but it was still playing away from traffic.

BTW didn't Gretzky win this award with something like 52 minutes of penalty one year. I may be mistaking, but I seem to remember a bit of contraversy about this. Gretzky getting a trophy as a consolation prize because he didn't get another that year.

Mad Habber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 06:17 PM
  #17
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Mats Naslund, a softie....?!?!?! What would you want him to do, try to lay hits to guy 6 inches taller than him? Wasn't crushing anybody on the ice, but anybody that has the words Turgeon and Naslund and softie in the same sentence is clinically insane, unless they meant Markus Naslund.
You may be right, Naslund wasnt "soft" I shouldnt put him in that category. Gretzky was softer than him, yet we often dont hold that against him since when you lead the NHL in al-time playoff points you arent thought of automatically as soft.

But Turgeon? Yeah, I saw him play too. He won the award just like the guy he was supposed to be compared to (Perreault). The only difference is Perreault got involved on the ice while Turgeon was a perimeter player and never got his nose dirty or even broke a sweat. Yes he racked up points, but he played an extremely passive game out there

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 06:28 PM
  #18
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 30,962
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
You may be right, Naslund wasnt "soft" I shouldnt put him in that category. Gretzky was softer than him, yet we often dont hold that against him since when you lead the NHL in al-time playoff points you arent thought of automatically as soft.

But Turgeon? Yeah, I saw him play too. He won the award just like the guy he was supposed to be compared to (Perreault). The only difference is Perreault got involved on the ice while Turgeon was a perimeter player and never got his nose dirty or even broke a sweat. Yes he racked up points, but he played an extremely passive game out there
Maybe my post was vague. Turgeon was a softie. Naslund wasn't.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 07:24 PM
  #19
Slapshooter
Registered User
 
Slapshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 711
vCash: 500
I don't like the award. Mostly because it has a horrible name. It can also undeservely make a player look soft. Non-aggressive players are not always soft players.

Slapshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 07:43 PM
  #20
Andrew Knoll
Registered User
 
Andrew Knoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 2,354
vCash: 500
^^^ Well is that really a problem with the award or the perception of it?

You have to be an excellent player first to win. Then, you have to be a gentleman. In an era where players lack respect for one another and we have fighting as a decreasingly effective means as policing dirty plays, I think the Lady Byng winners should get more praise and less laughs.

Andrew Knoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 07:51 PM
  #21
Slapshooter
Registered User
 
Slapshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothWithTheBiscuit View Post
^^^ Well is that really a problem with the award or the perception of it?
Aside from the silly name, the problem is in the perception. I'm sure it was not meant to be a "pansy award", but it sure sounds like it.

Slapshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 08:00 PM
  #22
Andrew Knoll
Registered User
 
Andrew Knoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 2,354
vCash: 500
^^^ All the awards have outdated names with the exception of the Richard Trophy. A lot of commentators have suggested contemporizing the names and most publications do not say "Hart Trophy," they say "NHL MVP" for clarity's sake.

But personally I prefer the tradition of the awards and of the ceremony, I would not change a thing. People thought changing the names of the divisions would help and it hasn't done a damn thing.

Andrew Knoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 09:48 PM
  #23
pappyline
Registered User
 
pappyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mass/formerly Ont
Country: United States
Posts: 4,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothWithTheBiscuit View Post
^^^ All the awards have outdated names with the exception of the Richard Trophy. A lot of commentators have suggested contemporizing the names and most publications do not say "Hart Trophy," they say "NHL MVP" for clarity's sake.

But personally I prefer the tradition of the awards and of the ceremony, I would not change a thing. People thought changing the names of the divisions would help and it hasn't done a damn thing.
I don't see anything wrong with the name. Lady Byng donated the trophy & Lady Byng it is.

pappyline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 09:58 PM
  #24
reckoning
Registered User
 
reckoning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,911
vCash: 500
Don't know if it's true or not, but there's that old story that Don Cherry tells about how he used to always tell his team "We're the Boston Bruins and we're the toughest team in the world! There's no Lady Byngers here!" One year Jean Ratelle ends up winning the award and he went to apologize to Cherry for it, saying he wasn't trying to win it. Cherry had to reassure Ratelle that it was OK and he didn't want him doing any fighting.

reckoning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 10:07 PM
  #25
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 11,391
vCash: 500
That's a big part of the problem. Blowholes like Don Cherrey immediately label anyone winning that award a soft player and too many meathed fans take that as truth.

FissionFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:59 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.