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Retire No. 9?

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02-05-2004, 12:18 PM
  #1
Shadowtron
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Retire No. 9?

Do you guys think Graves' number should be retired? I think so.


In a few years No.'s 7, 1 & 35 will be joined by No.'s 11 & 2. That's a given. Does Graves belong up their with them?


Graves bled blue for ten years...it should be recognized!!

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02-05-2004, 12:30 PM
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sickboy35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron
Do you guys think Graves' number should be retired? I think so.


In a few years No.'s 7, 1 & 35 will be joined by No.'s 11 & 2. That's a given. Does Graves belong up their with them?


Graves bled blue for ten years...it should be recognized!!
i agree! one of the classiest athletes in sports!! it would be great to see his # in the rafters of msg!!

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02-05-2004, 12:51 PM
  #3
True Blue
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I agree that I think that Gravey's number should be retired by the Rangers. However, I think that it would be an injustice to retire his number and not Greshner's. Gresh was and is every bit the class act, Adam is and evey bit a Ranger.
IMO, BOTH #'s should hang from the rafters. I could even make a case for Gresh to be there ahead of Messier.

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02-05-2004, 12:52 PM
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Gravy's case for retired jersey..

For-

Holds single season goal scoring record

Huge part of Cup win and several good seasons

always tuck up for teammates, always gave off the ice



Against-

Not original Ranger, and bigger minus- didn't finish career as Ranger

Never really dominated a season, no post season hardware

His number has been worn since he left.

Only 3 current retired jersey's in the rafters, means stakes are much higher..


IMO, #9 should not be retired.. He's one of my favorties of all time, BUT I think you could make the same case for Greschner that you could make for Graves as far as "importance to the team in his era." and #4 isn't up there.. They shouldn't lower the bar for what it takes to have your Ranger jersey hung, and I think by letting #9 go up, then there's several others who deserve it as well..

I'm not even sure Mess should be up there, but a much better case could be made for him..

Leetch, no doubt about it..

edit- Hey Blue, looks like we're thinking the same thing!!

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02-05-2004, 12:56 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
Hey Blue, looks like we're thinking the same thing!!
See, you're not my official sidekick for nothing.

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02-05-2004, 02:36 PM
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Troy Mallette
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The big differences between Graves and Gresh are:

1. Graves was an integral part of the 1994 team, and some of the other most successful teams in Ranger history, while Gresh was not (cinderella runs in 79 and 86, notwithstanding). Being key cog in greatness and a key cog in mediocrity (for the most part) are two different things IMO.

2. I was only old enough at the time to know what team I was rooting for, but I don' t remember Gresh having the record of service to the community that Graves had.

3. Graves has the Clancy and Masterson trophies, and I don't think Gresh ever won anything like that.

Finally, I also support retiring #9 because it was Bathgate's number as well. He well precedes my time, but I have been told that he is the most underrated Ranger great.

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02-05-2004, 03:25 PM
  #7
Barnaby
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[QUOTE=Davisian]

I'm not even sure Mess should be up there, but a much better case could be made for him..

[QUOTE]

No Mess? Let's not get crazy. The man is THE Ranger. Sure he didnt play every season in NY, but he brought us a cup and has been the face of the franchise for X amount of years. Speaking for myself, I think Rangers, I think Messier.

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02-05-2004, 03:40 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron
Do you guys think Graves' number should be retired? I think so.


In a few years No.'s 7, 1 & 35 will be joined by No.'s 11 & 2. That's a given. Does Graves belong up their with them?


Graves bled blue for ten years...it should be recognized!!
Adam Graves never should have been allowed to wear #9.Andy Bathgate wore #9 and he is a Ranger great.The Rangers never retired his number.Bathgate is a member of the Hockey Hall of Fame.Wanna retire #9?Retire it for Bathgate

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Old
02-05-2004, 03:56 PM
  #9
Davisian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby
No Mess? Let's not get crazy.
True, Mess is/was huge for the franchise, and I'd expect that #11 will hang, but I was making the point that there have been so few Ranger jersey's retired, I'd hate to see them lower the bar in order to distract from how bad the franchise is now..


Rangerboy- HUGE point on Bathgate.. Completely forgot..

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02-05-2004, 04:38 PM
  #10
Janerixon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
Rangerboy- HUGE point on Bathgate.. Completely forgot..
i wonder if one day the rangers may retire #9 with 2 banners 1 for graves and one for bathgate? i think the knicks may have that for a number, i know ive seen it somewhere and i want to say the knicks

however i dont see the rangers retiring graves # just because they just dont want to retire anybody's number, yes graves was a great ranger and if it was up to me i dont think id want to see anyone else wearing that number, but i can only see leetch and mess up there next

what they really need to do is get a ring of fame so they can at least honor guys like bathgate, graves, gresh, etc

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02-05-2004, 04:41 PM
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No...as much as I'm a fan of Gravey's, I don't think his number warrants retirement.

11 and 2, most definitely.

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02-05-2004, 04:45 PM
  #12
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Make the case for #11 over #9....

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02-05-2004, 04:55 PM
  #13
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Good point davisian, but...

on this 'Never really dominated a season, no post season hardware', I think his 50% goal season was pretty dominant.

#9 gets retired given that it was worn by both Graves and Bathgate. Graves doesn't get it for himself - but I don't see how someone else can be wearing that number.

As for #11...The Captain who led this team to its first championship in 54 years? I think that's about enough, considering how instrumental he was in getting the team there. Further, he was a leader for a some pretty decent teams that didn't win the Stanley Cup too. Additionally, he has nearly 700 points as a Ranger, about 250 goals, including six of nine (one season had 48 games) with 20+ goals and a 107 point season.

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02-05-2004, 05:05 PM
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The rangers traditionally have been one of the toughest teams when it comes to retiring jersey's, so we cant go on the past. I think the org. needs to wake up and turn a new leaf.

As for numbers that should be retired.

Leetch - It's a given, i dont even have to explain this one.

Messier - bottom line is he's the single most important Rangers of the past 50 years because he did what no one else did. without mess, i am not sure leetch and richter would have developed into the players they did and thus you dont even have #'s 35 and 2 hanging.

Graves - A number being retired isn't just about the number of points a player has on a piece of paper, it's about what he meant to the organization. sorry but if you can't understand that principle that you still have much to learn about the true meaning of "value" in the world.

Bathgate - deserves to be up there, that can be changed. no where is it written that the same number can't be honored twice. the past didnt recognize him, but unless the world ends tomorrow there is always a chance to right a wrong.

Greschner - his number should be retired for the same reason that yanks retired number 23. nuff said.

We're turning numbers being retired into something of an "elite" society and were basing it off pure numbers. There is so much more that has to go into something. Aside from the fact that he has the record for most goals by a ranger, aside from the fact that he played for ten years, Graves was the example of EVERYTHING you want a Ranger to be. He was the example of the type of players this organization has ignored for 60 years and why they've only won a single cup.

Bobby Nystrom is loved by the islanders yet he "only" had 235 goals and a bit over 500 points. But he was part of something bigger, he was an ISLANDER in his bones.

Graves had over 100 more goals and about 100 more points and like Nystrom he was a ranger in his bones. He didn't start here, but he came with 23 goals in his career. he scored only 26 after he left. the man is a ranger and the ONLY reason he didn't retire a ranger was because of sather, but sather was still pissed that he essentially lost him 10 years earlier for troy mallette. if graves doesn't represent what a ranger is.....heck if he doesn't represent what it feels like to be a fan of this team, than NO ONE who ever wears this sweater will ever meet that standard. He tried when he had nothing left, he gave this team everything, he NEVER took a shift off and ya know what? He wasnt a half bad player too.

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02-05-2004, 05:18 PM
  #15
Troy Mallette
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Nystrom is a good comparison, as is Dave Taylor in the case of the Kings (Clancy and Masterson trophy winner also BTW). Both are "heart and soul" players but not necessarily players with HOF-type awards and numbers. Those type of players should have their numbers retired because they represent what their franchise is supposed to be about, as does Adam Graves.

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Old
02-05-2004, 05:28 PM
  #16
Mad Mike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron
Do you guys think Graves' number should be retired? I think so.


In a few years No.'s 7, 1 & 35 will be joined by No.'s 11 & 2. That's a given. Does Graves belong up their with them?


Graves bled blue for ten years...it should be recognized!!
Graves' number should be retired

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Old
02-05-2004, 05:30 PM
  #17
Edge
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well that's what i mean.

In many the hall of fame will always be a numbers game, despite whether that is right or wrong.

hanging a jersey is like appreciating a contribution. maybe they werent the best at any one thing but they were great because they weren't.

i'd like to believe there isnt a person around who couldn't root for someline like Adam Graves or Kelly Buchberger or other players who represent a passion and "heart" for the game that is missing.

Graves spent 10 years with a club. That's hard enough in pro sports nowadays let alone a NY team, let alone the rangers.

if this team, with all of it's talent played with the heart that graves did we'd be a dynasty.

watching graves was more than watching a guy get garbage goals, watching graves was like watching the heart of the rangers continue to beat, no matter how many times it "Should have" just given up.

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02-05-2004, 07:41 PM
  #18
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i think it would go a long way in making the fans happy, and stick it out while the team get's righted(if ever.)

i'd also like to see some sort of banner in the rafters for Bill and Bun Cook. they didn't wear numbers back then, but they should still be recognized in the garden.

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Old
02-05-2004, 08:53 PM
  #19
Edge
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the rangers have a lot of ignored members they need to address.

for a team that's been around over 75 years, you'd think we'd have a little more sense of history.

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