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01-29-2009, 09:03 PM
  #976
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Tonight was the third time Martin mentioned the team possibly looking for a center, so thats what I think they will go after at the deadline. There are some guys out there that I want, like McDonald or Weight, and I dont think they would cost us that much.

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01-30-2009, 12:36 AM
  #977
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Thoughts on a Jay-Bo to Vancouver deal ...

O.K. this thread is huge so I'm not going to go through it. That said I think Jay-Bo could be just what the doctor ordered in Vancouver. The dilemma from Florida's stand point (I would think) is do you trade him before the deadline and get a good return or do you keep him for a run at the playoffs/cup.

Keeping that in mind, here's something I was thinking about and I was hoping for a Florida's fan perspective:

To Van: Jay-Bo (with him signing an extension at time of trade)

To Florida:
Bieksa (27 years old, signed for 2 more seasons at 3.75 mill then UFA)
Van 2009 1st Round Pick
Mason Raymond (23 years old, signed for 1 more at 833k then RFA)

My thinking is that Bieksa gives Florida a replacement for Jay-Bo on the back-end, which may help tilt the dilemma towards trading him. Now I know Florida would like a center but Vancouver just doesn't have any to offer. So would this be enough? Would a Florida fan consider it?

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01-30-2009, 07:07 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Spanky-X- View Post
O.K. this thread is huge so I'm not going to go through it. That said I think Jay-Bo could be just what the doctor ordered in Vancouver. The dilemma from Florida's stand point (I would think) is do you trade him before the deadline and get a good return or do you keep him for a run at the playoffs/cup.

Keeping that in mind, here's something I was thinking about and I was hoping for a Florida's fan perspective:

To Van: Jay-Bo (with him signing an extension at time of trade)

To Florida:
Bieksa (27 years old, signed for 2 more seasons at 3.75 mill then UFA)
Van 2009 1st Round Pick
Mason Raymond (23 years old, signed for 1 more at 833k then RFA)

My thinking is that Bieksa gives Florida a replacement for Jay-Bo on the back-end, which may help tilt the dilemma towards trading him. Now I know Florida would like a center but Vancouver just doesn't have any to offer. So would this be enough? Would a Florida fan consider it?
Maybe for a UFA Bouwmeester. But if he signs we should be getting alot more coming back.

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01-30-2009, 07:15 AM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Spanky-X- View Post
O.K. this thread is huge so I'm not going to go through it. That said I think Jay-Bo could be just what the doctor ordered in Vancouver. The dilemma from Florida's stand point (I would think) is do you trade him before the deadline and get a good return or do you keep him for a run at the playoffs/cup.

Keeping that in mind, here's something I was thinking about and I was hoping for a Florida's fan perspective:

To Van: Jay-Bo (with him signing an extension at time of trade)

To Florida:
Bieksa (27 years old, signed for 2 more seasons at 3.75 mill then UFA)
Van 2009 1st Round Pick
Mason Raymond (23 years old, signed for 1 more at 833k then RFA)

My thinking is that Bieksa gives Florida a replacement for Jay-Bo on the back-end, which may help tilt the dilemma towards trading him. Now I know Florida would like a center but Vancouver just doesn't have any to offer. So would this be enough? Would a Florida fan consider it?
Cody Hodgson, Alex Burrows, 1st 09

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01-30-2009, 07:45 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Tonight was the third time Martin mentioned the team possibly looking for a center, so thats what I think they will go after at the deadline. There are some guys out there that I want, like McDonald or Weight, and I dont think they would cost us that much.
I would like Mike Comrie on this team. He is very underated at times and with the Isles not doing to good I don't think it would cost us much either. I think Comrie would be great to pair with Horton on a line.

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01-30-2009, 08:07 AM
  #981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky-X- View Post
O.K. this thread is huge so I'm not going to go through it. That said I think Jay-Bo could be just what the doctor ordered in Vancouver. The dilemma from Florida's stand point (I would think) is do you trade him before the deadline and get a good return or do you keep him for a run at the playoffs/cup.

Keeping that in mind, here's something I was thinking about and I was hoping for a Florida's fan perspective:

To Van: Jay-Bo (with him signing an extension at time of trade)

To Florida:
Bieksa (27 years old, signed for 2 more seasons at 3.75 mill then UFA)
Van 2009 1st Round Pick
Mason Raymond (23 years old, signed for 1 more at 833k then RFA)

My thinking is that Bieksa gives Florida a replacement for Jay-Bo on the back-end, which may help tilt the dilemma towards trading him. Now I know Florida would like a center but Vancouver just doesn't have any to offer. So would this be enough? Would a Florida fan consider it?
At this point I would hate to mess with the chemistry on our backend and I suspect JM feels the same so I think for JM to move Bouw would have to be something that he could absolutely not pass up and Bieksa/Raymond aren't something JM could absolutely not pass up.

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01-30-2009, 08:23 AM
  #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggzy View Post
Maybe for a UFA Bouwmeester. But if he signs we should be getting alot more coming back.
I agree. That package would work for an unsigned Bouwmeester, but if he's signed Hodgson would have to be coming back.

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01-30-2009, 10:15 AM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky-X- View Post

To Van: Jay-Bo (with him signing an extension at time of trade)

To Florida:
Bieksa (27 years old, signed for 2 more seasons at 3.75 mill then UFA)
Van 2009 1st Round Pick
Mason Raymond (23 years old, signed for 1 more at 833k then RFA)

My thinking is that Bieksa gives Florida a replacement for Jay-Bo on the back-end, which may help tilt the dilemma towards trading him. Now I know Florida would like a center but Vancouver just doesn't have any to offer. So would this be enough? Would a Florida fan consider it?
For a signed JayBo I would do that, but the Panthers won't be trading a signed JayBo, it doesn't work that way. Sign and trades never happen.

For an un-signed JayBo I don't think Gillis would give up Bieksa and would probably prefer to move Edler. Edler probably has the higher upside, but if the Canucks are wanting to compete now they're going to want to hang onto Bieksa IMO. Edler, Raymond and 1st for an un-signed JayBo is what I would offer. I don't know if any teams could realistically beat that.

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01-30-2009, 10:35 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
For a signed JayBo I would do that, but the Panthers won't be trading a signed JayBo, it doesn't work that way. Sign and trades never happen.

For an un-signed JayBo I don't think Gillis would give up Bieksa and would probably prefer to move Edler. Edler probably has the higher upside, but if the Canucks are wanting to compete now they're going to want to hang onto Bieksa IMO. Edler, Raymond and 1st for an un-signed JayBo is what I would offer. I don't know if any teams could realistically beat that.
I'd probably take that deal. Seems pretty fair. I just hope we hang on to Bo and acquire someone at the trade deadline, make the playoffs, then have Bo sign an extension. That would be the best case scenario imo.

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01-30-2009, 10:40 AM
  #985
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I'd probably take that deal. Seems pretty fair. I just hope we hang on to Bo and acquire someone at the trade deadline, make the playoffs, then have Bo sign an extension. That would be the best case scenario imo.
Yea that would be a great scenario for the Panthers, but if he hasn't signed yet and according to McKenzie negotiations haven't been fruitful, what's he waiting for? The Panthers look like a very good, young team. They're playing well, holding down a playoff spot and don't show any signs of slowing down. If JayBo was serious about staying in Florida, and assuming the Panthers made him a fair offer(reported to be between $6.5-7M per?), I don't see why he wouldn't have signed by now.

As GP stated in another thread, I think he just seriously wants to be closer to home, somewhere in the West preferably Western Canada. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part but that's just the feeling I get.

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01-30-2009, 12:22 PM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
For a signed JayBo I would do that, but the Panthers won't be trading a signed JayBo, it doesn't work that way. Sign and trades never happen.

For an un-signed JayBo I don't think Gillis would give up Bieksa and would probably prefer to move Edler. Edler probably has the higher upside, but if the Canucks are wanting to compete now they're going to want to hang onto Bieksa IMO. Edler, Raymond and 1st for an un-signed JayBo is what I would offer. I don't know if any teams could realistically beat that.
If the Panthers were to trade Bouw, they'd want Bieksa and Kesler. Bieksa to take Bouw's spot and Kesler to upgrade the center position. I'm not a fan of Kesler, but I bet that's what JM would ask for and probably a pick coming from Vancouver as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Yea that would be a great scenario for the Panthers, but if he hasn't signed yet and according to McKenzie negotiations haven't been fruitful, what's he waiting for? The Panthers look like a very good, young team. They're playing well, holding down a playoff spot and don't show any signs of slowing down. If JayBo was serious about staying in Florida, and assuming the Panthers made him a fair offer(reported to be between $6.5-7M per?), I don't see why he wouldn't have signed by now.

As GP stated in another thread, I think he just seriously wants to be closer to home, somewhere in the West preferably Western Canada. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part but that's just the feeling I get.
Listening to GP probably isn't the brightest idea. His views are in the super minority most of the time around here.

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01-30-2009, 12:55 PM
  #987
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If the Panthers were to trade Bouw, they'd want Bieksa and Kesler. Bieksa to take Bouw's spot and Kesler to upgrade the center position. I'm not a fan of Kesler, but I bet that's what JM would ask for and probably a pick coming from Vancouver as well.
If that's the case I'd just wait until the off-season to make an offer for JayBo. I really don't see any other team offering that type of package. Team's with playoff aspirations aren't going to be moving their minute leader on defense and shutdown center heading into the playoffs.

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01-30-2009, 03:19 PM
  #988
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If that's the case I'd just wait until the off-season to make an offer for JayBo. I really don't see any other team offering that type of package. Team's with playoff aspirations aren't going to be moving their minute leader on defense and shutdown center heading into the playoffs.
Than so be it. Anything less and I'd rather risk the possibility of losing him for nothing.

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01-30-2009, 06:28 PM
  #989
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If we were to get Penner, I would hope Olesz and his crazy contract go the other way.

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01-30-2009, 07:57 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Yea that would be a great scenario for the Panthers, but if he hasn't signed yet and according to McKenzie negotiations haven't been fruitful, what's he waiting for? The Panthers look like a very good, young team. They're playing well, holding down a playoff spot and don't show any signs of slowing down. If JayBo was serious about staying in Florida, and assuming the Panthers made him a fair offer(reported to be between $6.5-7M per?), I don't see why he wouldn't have signed by now.

As GP stated in another thread, I think he just seriously wants to be closer to home, somewhere in the West preferably Western Canada. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part but that's just the feeling I get.
Bouw's just been burned too many times in the past. He's been here for 5 seasons, only 5 because the lockout doesn't count, and hasn't been to the playoffs. The Panthers are looking better than they ever have while he's been here, but IMO he just wants to be as sure as possible that this is a playoff team before he re-signs long term. He's this close to being able to choose his destination and go to whatever perennial playoff team he chooses pretty much, you have to understand that. That's why I don't doubt he would prefer to wait until after the season ends before potentially re-signing with us. Though, things might get a lot harder for him near the deadline.

I really don't think Jay wants to play for a Canadian team, he just wouldn't want the media attention IMO and I understand the mentality of a shy person because I used to be shy like him(not as shy) until my early 20's, not that long ago. There's absolutely no way he signs with a Canadian team IMO, you'd have to put a gun to his head before he signs that contract. He can barely handle the South Florida media. I don't know if you've heard about his reputation or saw his interview at the All Star game. He's probably the shyest player in the NHL.

Also, he's never made any mention of the destination or lifestyle down here as a reason why he hasn't committed long term. In fact, he's defended the market down here at times and has said a few times that playing in a place like this has its perks, and also commented that playing in a place like Toronto or Montreal can not be all it's cracked up to be sometimes. The reason he, and Martin, have given over and over since the summer, for why he hasn't committed long term is that he wants to play on a playoff contender. Now, it could all be misdirection, but I doubt it. It makes sense, over the past few weeks, as the team has gotten better and better, Jay's had more and more positive things to say about the team and how we've been playing. Last night he had an ear to ear smile for the whole five minutes while being interviewed after the game, the first time I've ever seen him look that happy. Most of the time he looks robotic. Just my .02.

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01-30-2009, 11:42 PM
  #991
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I really do hope JayBo does re-sign with you guys. It would suck to put that much time into developing him only for him to leave when the team is starting to form around him. Of course, if he does leave I'd love to see him sign with the Canucks. But if he does hit the open market there will be so much interest in him that I don't really see him ending up here.

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01-31-2009, 06:12 AM
  #992
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I think you'd be very hard pressed to get a better package then Edler, Raymond and a 1st for an unsigned Bouwmeester.

Last year Campbell went for Bernier and a 1st which would be comparable to Raymond and a 1st and this package offers Edler (a young top 4 defencemen with the potential to be a top pairing defencemen).

This package also would help the Panthers win now and not just long term compared to any package involving Hodgson.

I just don't see how many teams out there could afford to give up more then that.

If there's no way Bouwmeester will sign with the Panthers before the trade deadline Martin is going to have to think real long and hard about that deal.

Losing Bouwmeester for nothing could put you guys back a few steps.

Raymond is in a slump right now but it wasn't too long ago when he was on pace for 20 goals and 45 points.

He's got the potential to be a 25-30 goal 60-70 point player and many in the organization have been real high on him.

I understand how important Bouwmeester is to you guys but even with him there's no gaurantee that the Panthers will make the playoffs and could you imagine missing the playoffs and watching Bouwmeester walk away as a UFA for nothing??

I just don't believe Martin can afford that. That'll put your organization back quite a few steps and they deserve much better.

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01-31-2009, 09:01 AM
  #993
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I think you'd be very hard pressed to get a better package then Edler, Raymond and a 1st for an unsigned Bouwmeester.

Last year Campbell went for Bernier and a 1st which would be comparable to Raymond and a 1st and this package offers Edler (a young top 4 defencemen with the potential to be a top pairing defencemen).

This package also would help the Panthers win now and not just long term compared to any package involving Hodgson.

I just don't see how many teams out there could afford to give up more then that.

If there's no way Bouwmeester will sign with the Panthers before the trade deadline Martin is going to have to think real long and hard about that deal.

Losing Bouwmeester for nothing could put you guys back a few steps.

Raymond is in a slump right now but it wasn't too long ago when he was on pace for 20 goals and 45 points.

He's got the potential to be a 25-30 goal 60-70 point player and many in the organization have been real high on him.

I understand how important Bouwmeester is to you guys but even with him there's no gaurantee that the Panthers will make the playoffs and could you imagine missing the playoffs and watching Bouwmeester walk away as a UFA for nothing??

I just don't believe Martin can afford that. That'll put your organization back quite a few steps and they deserve much better.
JMO, but if that's the best offer we get, I don't think Martin makes the trade. That doesn't keep us nearly as competitive as keeping Bouw does, and there's nothing there that we can't go out and get in UFA in the summer should Bouw leave. No offense to Edler or Raymond, but the former isn't a top pairing d yet, and Raymond is barely a legitimate top six forward at this point, though he definitely has the potential to become a lot better.

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01-31-2009, 09:52 AM
  #994
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What people need to understand, actually, is that losing Bouw doesn't necessarily put us back at all, for several reasons. Kaberle could still be out there to be had, there will be other free agents willing to sign with a young team who made the playoffs, and Ellerby is in the system. Other players could be traded for as well, who thought McCabe would be a Panther this time last year?

They may not be as good as Bouw whoever comes in, but they'd be better than Mezei. Iow, Martin doesn't HAVE to do anything and he CAN trade him for picks or do a UFA or RFA swap. People carrying on about us having to do something cracks me up, though, Martin may see a deal as something he can't say not to. Imo, that's the only way Bouw moves.

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01-31-2009, 10:28 AM
  #995
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What people need to understand, actually, is that losing Bouw doesn't necessarily put us back at all, for several reasons. Kaberle could still be out there to be had, there will be other free agents willing to sign with a young team who made the playoffs, and Ellerby is in the system. Other players could be traded for as well, who thought McCabe would be a Panther this time last year?

They may not be as good as Bouw whoever comes in, but they'd be better than Mezei. Iow, Martin doesn't HAVE to do anything and he CAN trade him for picks or do a UFA or RFA swap. People carrying on about us having to do something cracks me up, though, Martin may see a deal as something he can't say not to. Imo, that's the only way Bouw moves.
I agree! Sorry, but that Vancouver package can be beaten and will be beaten by other teams. I still don't want to trade Bouw unless some team is seriously overpaying. I'd rather just risk losing him for nothing because this franchise needs to make the playoffs.

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