HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

WOW - Is Streit one of the best defencer of the NHL?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-31-2008, 09:25 AM
  #126
Quiet Robert
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
900 minutes of D in his 1350 or so minutes this season.
I don't want to be "that" guy...but "link"? It would be interesting to see a site that breaks down TOI that specifically.

The only reason I question that stat is because it seems too high, especially after I broke it down. Streit has played 1368 minutes so far this year. 378 of those minutes have been on the PP and 66 on the PK. So let's say that's just under 450 minutes on defence.

That leaves roughly 450 of his 928 ES strength minutes as a dman. Or roughly 50%. If the stats are right I'll have no argument, but judging from what I've seen this year I find it very hard to believe that Streit played half his ES time as dman. Or else my memory is really bad and he really did play on D a lot at the beginning of the year. Gorges wasn't established and both Brisebois and O'Byrne suffered injuries, so like I said maybe my memory is just too short.


*Actually you know what, nevermind I believe that stat. There was the Hamrlik-Brisebois Bouillon-Streit phase. And O'Byrne wasn't called up until December 5th and got injured in that fight against Florida at the end of the month. And Gorges was a healthy scratch for most of the time until early December when he became a regular. Finally Brisebois was pretty much a regular until Gorges emerged in early December. (Only scratched 4 times in the first 30 games or so.)

So yeah, now that I looked at it, Streit was pretty much on D for half the year. And quickly glancing at his GBG log, he's been pretty consistent and has produced all year. The more I look at it, the more it seems his versatility is underappreciated, even by an "unbiased" fan such as myself.

Quiet Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2008, 09:48 AM
  #127
Fido22
Registered User
 
Fido22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJG View Post
Yes, he is the best denfenseman in the NHL
Better!

Fido22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2008, 11:19 AM
  #128
RE-HABS
Registered User
 
RE-HABS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,885
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by med981 View Post
32 D Mark Streit 78 12 46 58
79 D Andrei Markov 78 16 41 57

He has 1 more point than Markov!!!

Hope the Canadiens will sign him this summer!
The majority of those points are forward and PP points, it is quite misleading.

RE-HABS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2008, 12:12 PM
  #129
Bad Natey
#feelthelove
 
Bad Natey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
The majority of those points are forward and PP points, it is quite misleading.
How do you figure?!?!?!

A lot of his PTS, have come as a defenseman. He's played 900 of 1350 minutes as a defenseman.

If you take his 26 ES pts, he's probably scored 15 or so as a defenseman.

Someone had a stat earlier in the year, where about 3/4 of his non-PP points came a defenseman.

Bad Natey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2008, 12:20 PM
  #130
Guillemin
Registered User
 
Guillemin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,110
vCash: 500
Elite level is quite a stretch.

He's a nice player, versatile, and good on the powerplay, but he's far from the combination of defense and offense that characterizes the best d men in the league. He's also having a career year. His average yearly stats are nothing compared to those of a Markov/Chara/Kaberle/Zubov, etc.

Guillemin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2008, 12:22 PM
  #131
THE HOFF
Registered User
 
THE HOFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,208
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJG View Post
Yes, he is the best denfenseman in the NHL

THE HOFF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2008, 12:54 PM
  #132
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
How do you figure?!?!?!

A lot of his PTS, have come as a defenseman. He's played 900 of 1350 minutes as a defenseman.

If you take his 26 ES pts, he's probably scored 15 or so as a defenseman.

Someone had a stat earlier in the year, where about 3/4 of his non-PP points came a defenseman.
Of those 900 minutes a lot are on the PP.

Most of his evenS points came as a forward.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2008, 01:34 PM
  #133
Bad Natey
#feelthelove
 
Bad Natey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Of those 900 minutes a lot are on the PP.

Most of his evenS points came as a forward.
How can you prove that?

You can't. I can't either.

I think it'd be pretty even as far as ES pts as D or F.

Bad Natey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2008, 01:59 PM
  #134
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
How can you prove that?

You can't. I can't either.

I think it'd be pretty even as far as ES pts as D or F.
Yes, there is a way and I'm compiling it as I write....

Game summaries show the players on the ice for each goal, just a matter of picking the ones where Streit would be a 3rd defensemen, hence, a forward.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2008, 02:30 PM
  #135
CrAzYNiNe
Registered User
 
CrAzYNiNe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,094
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CrAzYNiNe
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
How do you figure?!?!?!

A lot of his PTS, have come as a defenseman. He's played 900 of 1350 minutes as a defenseman.

If you take his 26 ES pts, he's probably scored 15 or so as a defenseman.

Someone had a stat earlier in the year, where about 3/4 of his non-PP points came a defenseman.
If they count pp time on the point as D time, then you are totally wrong. Streit when playing D(as in 5 on 5 or 4 on 4) isn't the biggest offensive threat. I am sure if you broke down those minutes to PP on the point, you will see.

ok so i did a little bit of the math and this is what i got

Streit plays 11.84 mins a game at EV, so I assumed(this is a huge source of error, if anyone has a more precise value, I would love to have a better value) he played 48 games at forward and 30 games on D.(Now this doesn't take into account that when he played on D, probably had more EV time then at forward, but then again, the numbers are so not even, it doesnt matter)

so 4.85 mins a game on the PP(this to me is considered O, since he isn't playing D, he might be at a D position but that is irrelevant, since he plays both O and D, it would be like saying that S. Kost plays D when he is on the point on the PP, which is foolish.

and 0.85 mins on the pk, which is all D, wether or not he is D on the PK, that is also irrelevant.


11.84*48=568.32 mins at EV on O
11.84*30=355.20 mins at EV on D
4.85*78= 378.3 mins on the PP
0.85*78=66.3 mins on the PK

So if you tabulate the numbers
946.62 on O
444.6 on D

So whatever calculations you did were very poor in my opinion. To say that Streit plays more on D is absurd

edit: Streit is 5-21 at EV, so now we have to find how those points came about, if he was playing D for a lot of those, but I doubt more then 1 goal at EV is while he is on D

CrAzYNiNe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2008, 02:45 PM
  #136
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
If they count pp time on the point as D time, then you are totally wrong. Streit when playing D(as in 5 on 5 or 4 on 4) isn't the biggest offensive threat. I am sure if you broke down those minutes to PP on the point, you will see.

ok so i did a little bit of the math and this is what i got

Streit plays 11.84 mins a game at EV, so I assumed(this is a huge source of error, if anyone has a more precise value, I would love to have a better value) he played 48 games at forward and 30 games on D.(Now this doesn't take into account that when he played on D, probably had more EV time then at forward, but then again, the numbers are so not even, it doesnt matter)

so 4.85 mins a game on the PP(this to me is considered O, since he isn't playing D, he might be at a D position but that is irrelevant, since he plays both O and D, it would be like saying that S. Kost plays D when he is on the point on the PP, which is foolish.

and 0.85 mins on the pk, which is all D, wether or not he is D on the PK, that is also irrelevant.


11.84*48=568.32 mins at EV on O
11.84*30=355.20 mins at EV on D
4.85*78= 378.3 mins on the PP
0.85*78=66.3 mins on the PK

So if you tabulate the numbers
946.62 on O
444.6 on D

So whatever calculations you did were very poor in my opinion. To say that Streit plays more on D is absurd

edit: Streit is 5-21 at EV, so now we have to find how those points came about, if he was playing D for a lot of those, but I doubt more then 1 goal at EV is while he is on D

He was 1-12 for 13 points as a D at EVS, and 4-9 for 13 points as a F at EVS.

But all arguments aside, he got 32 of 58 points at the point on the PP, with the 2nd highest PPTOI average (Kovalev has a 4:02 avg per game, Streit, 4:51) on the team, playing with mostly Kovalev, Plekanec, Markov and Higgins. This reinforces his status as a PP specialist, as he only got 13 points at EvS as a Dman.

To say he's one of the best Dmen is flawed at best.

Saying he's one of the best PP players is more accurate (15th in the league).

The other point in fact is that despite Markov having similar numbers on the PP, he got the rest of his 25 points as a D on EvS, against the other teams' best line, having an even +/-, while Streit is at -9, playing against lesser lines.

No way in hell is Streit even close to Markov, hence, not even close to the top30 Ds in the league.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2008, 02:47 PM
  #137
CrAzYNiNe
Registered User
 
CrAzYNiNe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,094
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CrAzYNiNe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
He was 1-12 for 13 points as a D at EVS, and 4-9 for 13 points as a F at EVS.

But all arguments aside, he got 32 of 58 points at the point on the PP, with the 2nd highest PPTOI average (Kovalev has a 4:02 avg per game, Streit, 4:51) on the team, playing with mostly Kovalev, Plekanec, Markov and Higgins. This reinforces his status as a PP specialist, as he only got 13 points at EvS as a Dman.

To say he's one of the best Dmen is flawed at best.

Saying he's one of the best PP players is more accurate (15th in the league).

The other point in fact is that despite Markov having similar numbers on the PP, he got the rest of his 25 points as a D on EvS, against the other teams' best line, having an even +/-, while Streit is at -9, playing against lesser lines.

No way in hell is Streit even close to Markov, hence, not even close to the top30 Ds in the league.
Thanks for completing my work! Not sure if you know, but sportsline has a pretty good game by game log for all players, with only the usual stats, but still very friendly to look at

CrAzYNiNe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2008, 02:50 PM
  #138
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
How do you figure?!?!?!

A lot of his PTS, have come as a defenseman. He's played 900 of 1350 minutes as a defenseman.

If you take his 26 ES pts, he's probably scored 15 or so as a defenseman.

Someone had a stat earlier in the year, where about 3/4 of his non-PP points came a defenseman.
So now you see, by the stats up here, it was not 3/4 of his points, jsut half of them.

Also, he almost got 400 minutes on the PP, exclusively as a Dman, so if we skim off those minutes of the 900 number, this leaves only 500 minutes as Dman on EVS, close to the 380 minutes he got as a Forward.

Now, at EVS, 13 points in 380 minutes as a forward...

And, at EVS, 13 points in 500 minutes as a Dman....

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2008, 02:52 PM
  #139
CrAzYNiNe
Registered User
 
CrAzYNiNe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,094
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CrAzYNiNe
i hope this ends here!

CrAzYNiNe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2008, 06:44 AM
  #140
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
So now you see, by the stats up here, it was not 3/4 of his points, jsut half of them.

Also, he almost got 400 minutes on the PP, exclusively as a Dman, so if we skim off those minutes of the 900 number, this leaves only 500 minutes as Dman on EVS, close to the 380 minutes he got as a Forward.

Now, at EVS, 13 points in 380 minutes as a forward...

And, at EVS, 13 points in 500 minutes as a Dman....
Regardless we are arguing in circles.......

Not many people are saying he's an elite level defenceman..... we all know he's not....

Here's what Streit is:

1) a valuable part of this team... able to put up points both ES and on the PP... he has a great shot.... excellent passing touch and vision... great offensive instincts.... and is a solid skater.
2) He's a key part of the number 1 PP in the league, hes not leeching his points as some would have you believe
3) A versatile player who can play D or F at even strength..... He is able to get ES points while playing D or F, and is at about 50/50. Saying all his point totals are at forward is very misleading.... playing some forward helps a little bit as his production rate (ie minutes/point) is better there for obvious reasons; but its not as lopsided as some would have you believe.
4) He has played more ES minutes on D then Forward.... thats a fact.... the reason being he'll play more ES minutes in a game where he is dressed as a Dman then in a game where he is dressed as a forward (3 pairs of D vs 4 sets of lines).... the games played at each position are about equal..... However since he goes back to D even when he is dressed as a forward for PP situations... listing him as a D in the NHL stats is probably most accurate (there are few players who do the amount of moving he does, so it is hard to categorize him).
5) He's not the greatest defenceman on the team when he plays there; he's probably our number 7 guy, he has his flaws such as sometimes getting outmuscled in his own zone... he's probably better off as a forward for his personal stats and thats where his game is most effective; but when injuries hit on the D core, the team is better off with him on Defence then some of the other options we have.... I'd rather dress Kostopolous on forward and streit on defence, then streit on forward and breezy on defence. The versatility he brings is a great asset for the team.

Beakermania* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2008, 09:55 AM
  #141
Handlanger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 209
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
So now you see, by the stats up here, it was not 3/4 of his points, jsut half of them.

Also, he almost got 400 minutes on the PP, exclusively as a Dman, so if we skim off those minutes of the 900 number, this leaves only 500 minutes as Dman on EVS, close to the 380 minutes he got as a Forward.

Now, at EVS, 13 points in 380 minutes as a forward...

And, at EVS, 13 points in 500 minutes as a Dman....
So, still more time as a D than as an F.

No matter what this minute math is like - fact is he'll easily get his 4M per season by a desperate team.

Handlanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2008, 10:19 AM
  #142
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handlanger View Post
So, still more time as a D than as an F.

No matter what this minute math is like - fact is he'll easily get his 4M per season by a desperate team.
Didn't you read Beak's last post? Those minutes equal about the same amount of games, because Dmen always play more minutes than forwards.

The rest were PP minutes.

The fact is you easily forget that he won't get offers by other teams if the Habs sign him before July 1st and there is no yardstick to calculate his worth other than the open market, so if he doesn't go this route, all is left is that he was integrated to the #1 PP in the league over the last 3 seasons, and altho did contribute to it, he also profited from it a lot. And for the rest, he's played almost the same number of games in average on EVs calculated in average ice times for Fs and Ds.

Other teams will soon look at the Souray situation of last year and most will get that what makes the Habs PP so good, is Kovalev, Markov, Pleks, Kosty, Higgy, Koivu and that any good passer or shooter attached to this gang on the point will end-up having good numbers. Knowing full well that Streit will be a good clog to their PP, but maybe not worth as much as you imply, considering his relatively short NHL experience and the squad he was with.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2008, 10:25 AM
  #143
Russeltown
Registered User
 
Russeltown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,524
vCash: 500
You guys seem to forget the personal life factor in his decision to walk out or to stay.
I would be very surprised to not see him with Montreal next year.

Russeltown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2008, 10:31 AM
  #144
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Other teams will soon look at the Souray situation of last year and most will get that what makes the Habs PP so good, is Kovalev, Markov, Pleks, Kosty, Higgy, Koivu and that any good passer or shooter attached to this gang on the point will end-up having good numbers. Knowing full well that Streit will be a good clog to their PP, but maybe not worth as much as you imply, considering his relatively short NHL experience and the squad he was with.
While this is a rational way of looking at things, it only takes one GM to get over awed by his numbers and offer a big deal.... Most GMs see that he is a valuable part of this PP, but not the key cog that Markov or Kovalev are.... However someone could still do something dumb. I know it was pre-cap, but everyone in the world knew that Bobby Holik got too much money from the Rangers.... just last year we saw the Jason Blake deal (1 time 40 goal season, gets a perennial 25-30goal guy and makes him vastly overpaid). There are numerous other examples.....

It just takes one guy, in a panic on july 1st after he misses his first choice.... to throw crazy money at Streit. Its still a strong possibility he leaves... I hope not, but I can see it happening.

Beakermania* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2008, 10:34 AM
  #145
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russeltown View Post
You guys seem to forget the personal life factor in his decision to walk out or to stay.
I would be very surprised to not see him with Montreal next year.
As I do Russ. That's why I think he'll sign before July 1st and any speculations of what other teams may offer is just futile.

With Streit signed around 3 mil, this would put the Habs cap within 44 mil (considering Kosty at 2 mil), with Ryder, Smokes and Breezer left as UFAs and a 22 player lineup... with the cap close to 57 mil for next season, that leaves a lot of space to manoeuvre and offer decent long term contracts to our future UFAs and RFAs, with most of them (the costly ones) finishing their contracts in July 09, with another probable leap of the cap close to 62/64 mil. So the Streit signing is quite a possibility.

For you buddy :

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:20 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.