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OffSeason-- Ryder/Streit OR Hossa

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Old
03-29-2008, 02:51 PM
  #26
m00ks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Kautsitsin View Post
It depends on what type of playoff performance they put up, all three of them. If Hossa stinks it up while Ryder and Streit perform well, then there's no reason to handicap the team by giving 8M to Hossa. The Habs are now in contending phase, they want performers.
Very astute.

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Old
03-29-2008, 02:58 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
This would be the approximate salaries after next season if this happened. Some players may be a little lower, but some players will probably be higher too.

Price - $2.2M
Halak - $1.3M
TOTAL: $3.5M

Higgins - $4M
Plekanec - $4.5M
Koivu - $3.5M
Kostitsyn Sr - $2.5M
Hossa - $7.5M
Kostitsyn Jr - $1M
Kovalev - $5M
Streit - $3M
Grabovski - $1.5M
Latendresse - $1.5M
Lapierre - $1.25M
Chipchura - $1M
TOTAL: $36.25M

Hamrlik - $5.5M
Gorges - $1.5M
Komisarek - $4M
Markov - $5.75M
Emelin - $1.5M
Valentenko - $1M
TOTAL: $19.25M

Wyman - $1M
Begin - $1M
O'Byrne - $1.25M
TOTAL: $3.25M

TOTAL: $62.25M

Then you need to re-sign Price (long-term), Kostitsyn Sr (long-term), Grabovski and Kostitsyn Jr after this season.

That's a good $13M+ locked up in those 4 players which would drive our Cap up even more. Even if we let Kovalev walk, we are still looking at a total salary of about $65M+ in 2-3 years.

There is no cap room for Hossa unless we are moving one or two of Price, The Kostitsyns, Plekanec, etc.
Price, the Kostitsyns and Pleks aren't going anywhere. If Hossa is to take the role of a scoring winger, Kovalev's in the doghouse. If Kovalev keeps this up, forget Hossa.

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:00 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
This would be the approximate salaries after next season if this happened. Some players may be a little lower, but some players will probably be higher too.

Price - $2.2M
Halak - $1.3M
TOTAL: $3.5M

Higgins - $4M
Plekanec - $4.5M
Koivu - $3.5M
Kostitsyn Sr - $2.5M
Hossa - $7.5M
Kostitsyn Jr - $1M
Kovalev - $5M
Streit - $3M
Grabovski - $1.5M
Latendresse - $1.5M
Lapierre - $1.25M
Chipchura - $1M
TOTAL: $36.25M

Hamrlik - $5.5M
Gorges - $1.5M
Komisarek - $4M
Markov - $5.75M
Emelin - $1.5M
Valentenko - $1M
TOTAL: $19.25M

Wyman - $1M
Begin - $1M
O'Byrne - $1.25M
TOTAL: $3.25M

TOTAL: $62.25M

Then you need to re-sign Price (long-term), Kostitsyn Sr (long-term), Grabovski and Kostitsyn Jr after this season.

That's a good $13M+ locked up in those 4 players which would drive our Cap up even more. Even if we let Kovalev walk, we are still looking at a total salary of about $65M+ in 2-3 years.

There is no cap room for Hossa unless we are moving one or two of Price, The Kostitsyns, Plekanec, etc.
It's basically a younger Hossa instead of older Koivu and Kovy... with MaxPac coming up, we got enough top 6 forwards... and I wouldn't sign Streit as a forward.

The one we got to watch out for is Price... in 2 years, he'll probably cost 7mil+ a year...

We got the money for Hossa... I'd say continue the youth movement with him instead.

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:03 PM
  #29
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i wouldnt pay anybody other than crosby and ovechkin 8M.

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:04 PM
  #30
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Marian Hossa without a doubt !!

Hossa >>>>> Ryder + Streit

And Streit is Expandable, because one of Sergei or Andrei Kostitsyn will be able to play on the Right point on the Powerplay. They can pretty much equal's Streit Production, if not do better than him.

My Guess is that Sergei Kostitsyn can take his spot on the Powerplay if Streit leaves.

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03-29-2008, 03:09 PM
  #31
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Problem with Hossa is he's gonna want a long term contract and the Habs have to plan for summer of 2009 when basically the whole team is unsigned (some big UFAs and a lot of RFAs due for a big raise). Sure Hossa is good, but the Habs risk becoming too top heavy like Ottawa, Tampa, NY Rangers, etc. Personally I REALLY like our balanced 3 line attack, it's been a huge key to being #1 cuz in a lot of games the #2-4 lines come through when Kovalev & friends don't produce. Gainey should stick with the plan, we don't need an expensive long term prime time UFA. It hasnt done much for NY and Philly, why do we want to follow them?

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=MTL

This summer there's a lot of spare change if Streit/Ryder and maybe Smolenski are ditched, and the cap goes up a few million, but that will evaporate quickly in summer 2009. But what to do? There's a few guys out there who are very good and will sign 1 year contracts, the prime catches IMO would be SUNDIN or JAGR. These two are bulls, close to retirement, but still game dominating players, and would look REALLY good in the CH. My preference would be Jagr because we have 5 good centres at the moment but Sundin would be great too if either he or someone else would shift to wing. Jagr coming off a mediocre season but I think the Montreal crowd would help light a fire under him. Plus he would be playing with a more exciting team and getting better passes from our D. Sundin has always been an amazing player and immense character, getting him would have the added bonus of rubbing salt into the wounds of Leafs fans (like with Gilmour hehe).

Both are huge money players who the habs could offer a bigtime 6+ mill one year contract to and wouldn't upset our longterm core clogging up the roster sheet with unmanageable salary for summer of 2009 when lots of maneuevering room will be needed.

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:18 PM
  #32
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Hossa's a great player but.......... I think we've got our quota of euro's on this team. I'd like to see us pony up the money for a forward with a bit of size and a bit of attitude who's not likely to disappear in april. I don't know who's available but guy's like Langenbrunner come to the front of my mind.

Hossa would definitely be an asset, but not at 8 million.
Ryder's not gonna get 2 million from this team to play on the third line, and that's where he'll be, if he's lucky.
Streit is gonna command some serious money after the year he's had and I'm not sure BG will think it's worth it.

I think Ryder's the only one that will be a hab next year, and the youth movement will continue, while BG tries to find the elusive big time center.

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:18 PM
  #33
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Ryder + Streit because i'm pretty sure that Bob would have to enter a bidding war for Hossa since the UFA market isn't exactly loaded with superstars this year.

- Sign Streit to a moderate contract (but don't go crazy)

- Try to sign Ryder to another 1 year deal (let him walk if he want long term or too much $$$)

- Let Smolinski and Brisebois walk

- Bring up Chipper to replace Smoke (cheap and efficient)

- Keep the status quo (why fix it if its not broken ?) and keep the free the cap space for to re-sign our incoming RFAs (Plekanec , Higgins , Chipchura , Latendresse , AK-46 , Lapierre , O'Byrne) and UFAs (Komisarek (must) and possibly Koivu and Kovalev depending on what their situation will be then).

- Sign Lecavalier in 2009

That would be my plan for the next two years but i'm not Bob so maybe he see things completely differently.

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:23 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_guy9 View Post
Ryder will re-sign for another 1 yr deal at 2.5M
Naa, I don't think he wants to go through that again. Another team will take a chance and easily offer him more than 3mil.

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:24 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
This would be the approximate salaries after next season if this happened. Some players may be a little lower, but some players will probably be higher too.

Price - $2.2M -
Halak - $1.3M
TOTAL: $3.5M

Higgins - $4M - really? I would say $3, especially if he's 3rd line...
Plekanec - $4.5M -
Koivu - $3.5M -
Kostitsyn Sr - $2.5M
Hossa - $7.5M
Kostitsyn Jr - $1M
Kovalev - $5M
Streit - $3M - not here...
Grabovski - $1.5M
Latendresse - $1.5M
Lapierre - $1.25M
Chipchura - $1M
TOTAL: $36.25M

Hamrlik - $5.5M
Gorges - $1.5M
Komisarek - $4M - no way that high. Not for a defensive defenseman.
Markov - $5.75M
Emelin - $1.5M
Valentenko - $1M
TOTAL: $19.25M

Wyman - $1M
Begin - $1M
O'Byrne - $1.25M
TOTAL: $3.25M

TOTAL: $62.25M

Then you need to re-sign Price (long-term), Kostitsyn Sr (long-term), Grabovski and Kostitsyn Jr after this season.

That's a good $13M+ locked up in those 4 players which would drive our Cap up even more. Even if we let Kovalev walk, we are still looking at a total salary of about $65M+ in 2-3 years.

There is no cap room for Hossa unless we are moving one or two of Price, The Kostitsyns, Plekanec, etc.
I'd say its closer to $57 million with Streit gone. So you're saying save money now to avoid a crunch in two years? Your math has us paying top six $$ to Koivu, Kovalev, Higgins, A.Kost., Plecs, Hossa & Streit. Knowing full well that S.Kost will be top six as well and possibly Lats by that time. Higgins will make good third line $$ and streit will be gone. Higgins, chips and laps on the third line would be effective and possibly pretty potent. A begin/Kosto-type/Rookie or Fighter would round out the 4th line.

We don't know what's going to happen in two years with the cap. If we sign a productive hossa to a front loaded contract over the first two years, we can unload him if our young guys make him redundant. Or we could trade some youth, get good picks and keep the rookies trickling in to our system each year to keep the team competitive and utilizing $$ advantage of rookie contracts.

I don't agree in the philosophy of assembling a young team and projecting it into the future for 10 years. We must always have youth coming in to our lineup to take advantage of rookie contracts and keep the cupboard stocked. This will mean trading some popular guys for picks but that is how good teams stay good in a capped league. At some point we have to deal from strength, get picks/prospects to keep the cycle going. We can use our great prospect depth right now to ensure it stays great for years to come without sacrificing product on the ice.

I like Streit but he is not needed on this team at the price he will command elsewhere. Hossa, on the other hand, addresses a weakness (great 5v5 play) that I think we'll need to get over the hump.

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:24 PM
  #36
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hosssssa hossssssa

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:27 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_guy9 View Post
Ryder will re-sign for another 1 yr deal at 2.5M
Why would Ryder sign another one-year deal with the Habs. He is a UFA. And why Gainey would try to re-sign him after such a miserable season ?

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:27 PM
  #38
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My main concerns about the next few years

Goalies
Price is at 1.8 cap hit until 2010/11
He ll probably order 7M+ once he hits UFA, that s in a few years....
Halak is RFA next year, I d try to keep him at 1.8M too

SO goalies +/- 3.6 M until Price hits RFA


Defense

Markov----- 5.75
Hammer----- 5.5
Komi----- 5
Gorges----- 1.5 (RFA next year)
Obyrne----- 1.5 (RFA too)
Bouillon----- 1.8 (I believe he ll be here next year)
Valentenko----- 0.5 (which I hope will be here next year)

So Defense Approximatively , IMO, 21.5 M$


Offense
EVevn tho most of them have a contract for next year, I ll go with what I think they ll have, either next year or in 2 years

Kovalev-----6
Pleky-------4.5
Kosty Sr----2

Kosty Jr-----0.5 (Same as Price)
Koivu------4
Higgins----4

Lats------1.8
Laps------1.5 When they ll both be RFA
Chip------1.8
Begin-----2 I believe next year might be his last one
Kosto-----1 Same
Streit-----2.5M
Grabo----1M
So Offense, with those numbers, 32.6

So 32.6 + 21.5 + 3.6 = 57.7 Millions !

Bye bye Ryder, Smoke, Natey s favourite , oh and Dandenault too


So how can we pay a 6-7-8M Ufa?
Dump Streit 2.5 , Kosto 1, Begin 1, and Bouillon 1.9, and that s almost 8.5Millions, but you still gotta replace them by the WYman, Pax, Carle, Mcdo, etc when they ll be ready


What d y all think ?
edit : damn didnt see Nateys numbers


Last edited by Sthabs: 03-29-2008 at 03:35 PM.
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Old
03-29-2008, 03:30 PM
  #39
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I don't want Ryder back and people need to realize that he WILL NOT stay here with a one year deal. It was a tough year for Ryder. Maybe you forgot it, but he didn't. I'm not saying that he will get a huge contract but I could definitely see a team giving him 10M$ over 3 years.

As for Streit, it will be a difficult decision. Sure we would "need" him to stay but how many years and how much money we could afford to give him is another thing. Bouillon is there for another year on D and in 2009, Valentenko might be ready to see some action in the NHL. As we know, our forwards group is already solid and we will have other young players coming in the next few years. IMO, we don't really need Streit as a forward if we need to pay him 3M$ per season. There's also the fact that Gorges is quietly showing that he can play the big minutes on D. JP Côté could be signed and be our 7th d-man. If we loose Streit, it might hurt our PP. We would need the 600k Streit but IMO, we don't need the 3M$ Streit.

Does this mean that I would take Hossa? Yes and no. I would give the money to get Hossa for one year or two (won't happen) but that said, we can't afford to put the money on him for the next 6-8 years. If we have cap space in the future, I would prefer to see that money put on a better player than Hossa, a playoff warrior.

I know that it won't happen since the Sens will likely want to keep him but a guy that I would like this summer is Cory Stillman. I would sign him for one year with a NTC to play on a line with Koivu and Latendresse. Another option would be Jaromir Jagr but I'm pretty sure that he will get a ridiculous offer by another team or in Russia.

My answer: No to Ryder, Streit (unless he takes a discount to stay here which is unlikely) and Hossa.

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03-29-2008, 03:34 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sthabs View Post
My main concerns about the next few years

Goalies
Price is at 1.8 cap hit until 2010/11
He ll probably order 7M+ once he hits UFA, that s in a few years....
Halak is RFA next year, I d try to keep him at 1.8M too

SO goalies +/- 3.6 M until Price hits RFA


Defense

Markov----- 5.75
Hammer----- 5.5
Komi----- 5
Gorges----- 1.5 (RFA next year)
Obyrne----- 1.5 (RFA too)

Bouillon----- 1.8 (I believe he ll be here next year)
Valentenko----- 0.5 (which I hope will be here next year)

So Defense Approximatively , IMO, 21.5 M$


Offense
EVevn tho most of them have a contract for next year, I ll go with what I think they ll have, either next year or in 2 years

Kovalev-----6
Pleky-------4.5
Kosty Sr----4

Kosty Jr-----0.5 (Same as Price)
Koivu------4
Higgins----4

Lats------1.8
Laps------1.5 When they ll both be RFA

Chip------1.8
Begin-----2 I believe next year might be his last one

Kosto-----1 Same
Streit-----2.5M

So Offense, with those numbers, 33.6

So 33.6 + 21.5 + 3.6 = 58.7 Millions !

Add Grabo and the buyouts, we re at 60...
Bye bye Ryder, Smoke, and Natey s favourite , oh and Dandenault too


So how can we pay a 6-7-8M Ufa?
Dump Streit 2.5 , Kosto 1, Begin 1, and Bouillon 1.9, and that s almost 6.5Millions, but you still gotta replace them by the WYman, Pax, Carle, Mcdo, etc

SO, maybe when Kovy ,Koivu, and Hammer contracts will be done, I hope we ll be able to replace them and get an exellent UFA at the same time, until then, chances are slim IMO

What d y all think ?
edit : damn didnt see Nateys numbers
I'm glad you're not the one managing the assets...

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:37 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by 79 André Marcoux View Post
I'm glad you're not the one managing the assets...

why what s wrong with my numbers?

I m glad you re not at the head of the communication department?

Edit, i did make a mistake on begin, for some reason i tought he was paid 2M, he s paid only 1....
And Ok, I was a bit generous with one or 2 RFA, like Laps or Laps, but even then we re talking 1-2M max

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03-29-2008, 03:42 PM
  #42
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Ryder + Streit, wouldnt think twice

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03-29-2008, 03:47 PM
  #43
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Easily Streit and Ryder. I don't think Hossa is worth $8M, but I do think that's about _the minimum_ he'd command on the open market. Sure, next season we could afford basically anything. But in 2009, with all the new raises that Higgins, Komisarek, Plekanec, and Kovalev in particular will command, I think that $8M+ to Hossa would end up costing us quite a few other elements of the team.

I don't know that I'd pay Streit $3M, mind you, unless it was a 1-year deal, but even with that I don't think Hossa is worth $5M more than him. At least with Ryder, if he comes back, you have to know it's just a 1 year deal. Anything he gives us on that deal is gravy, and if he returns to 30-goal form, he'll be a bargain. But that 1-year deal would be a great bridge in terms of giving us flexibility heading into a more cap-congested summer of 2009.

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:47 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
...
Okay, so $57M and that's before we re-sign all our key RFA + Komisarek. We have too many good young players to be signing UFA's to long-term contracts.

Higgins will make at least Top-6 money. No way he makes third line money.. He's a Top-30 scoring LWer (26th) in the NHL and a Top-90 scorer (86th). You are kidding yourself to think otherwise.

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03-29-2008, 03:50 PM
  #45
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Its really forgetting the reality of the NHL actually thinking that Ryder wont be offered 3M+ as a free agent...a la scott hartnell

Hartnell is under a 25.2/6 years contract, thats about 4.2 Million...i guarantee you that ryder will be offered 3.5 easy by at least 5 teams in the NHL and im not even thinking....

come on les boys let keep it real

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:51 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79 André Marcoux View Post
I'm glad you're not the one managing the assets...
Gorges and Lats were about right.

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Old
03-29-2008, 03:54 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sthabs View Post
why what s wrong with my numbers?

I m glad you re not at the head of the communication department?

Edit, i did make a mistake on begin, for some reason i tought he was paid 2M, he s paid only 1....
And Ok, I was a bit generous with one or 2 RFA, like Laps or Laps, but even then we re talking 1-2M max
Sorry man, I thought I didn't send my reply...

I was going to answer to you but I realize that I didn't have time to do so...

I will try to come back later and do it...

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03-29-2008, 03:55 PM
  #48
ChuckyToGally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Gorges and Lats were about right.
If Gorges continue to play like that I think it could be close...

But I don't see what Lats did to deserve this money, at least for now...

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03-29-2008, 03:57 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79 André Marcoux View Post
If Gorges continue to play like that I think it could be close...

But I don't see what Lats did to deserve this money, at least for now...
Im talking about 09/10 when he ll be RFA, that s going on par with Higgins and Pleks number with a cap raise, he wont make less than 1.5 Imo
Laps might be a bit much...

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03-29-2008, 03:59 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Okay.

Who do you want to get rid of. Plekanec, Komisarek, Markov, Kostitsyn 1, Kostitsyn 2, Price?
Koivu and Kovalev are due at the same time...it's not like we wont have any options.

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