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Jagr: Declining Skills or Lasting Injury?

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Old
03-30-2008, 01:16 PM
  #1
MortUWary
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Jagr: Declining Skills or Lasting Injury?

Since Jaromir Jagr became a member of the Rangers in January of 2004, we've seen enough of his tendencies to recognize that he loves to take his time and setup his shot. Unfortunately, this has become more problematic as he (and his PP unit) continue to slow down our any momentum we should have on the Power Play. They pass up shot after shot in an effort to feed Jagr with a one-timer, which he seems to have abandoned using following his 54 goal 2005-2006 season. That was a season where he flourished on the PP, notching 24 goals.

Following the 2005-06 season, Jagr injured his shoulder while attempting to shove/punch then New Jersey Devil, Scott Gomez near the end of a Game 1 loss in the playoffs. What has transpired since then has been a reluctance to pull the trigger with his shot. His shots per game has dwindled over the past three seasons, leading me to believe that there is more to this than dwindling skills and a lack of confidence:

2005-06: 4.49 shots per game / 0.66 goals per game (24 PPG)
2006-07: 3.95 shots per game / 0.36 goals per game (7 PPG)
2007-08: 2.96 shots per game / 0.26 goals per game (4 PPG)

He's almost a full shot and a half less per game this season as compared to 2005-06. He's used the excuse that the Koho brand sticks that he has used for years are no longer made and that he's struggling to find a stick that feels right to him. I'm not buying it. He's still got the world-class vision and anticipation that superstar athletes possess. I just think that there might be more to this than a lack of confidence, new sticks and an erosion of that scoring touch.

He takes a world of punishment each game, usually by the largest defenseman that the opposition has. Perhaps the daily wear and tear coupled with a lingering shoulder injury is contributing here. Three seasons ago, his shot was an absolute LASER. Now, he's gun shy. I think that there may be more to this than meets the eye. Am I in denial or is this a legitimate rationale? What are your thoughts???

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Old
03-30-2008, 02:26 PM
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Carlos Ranger
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take your pick..

different linemates
injury
declining skill
can't play in defensive system
too picky about his sticks
lack of confidence

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Old
03-30-2008, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DruMez View Post
take your pick..

different linemates
injury
declining skill
can't play in defensive system
too picky about his sticks
lack of confidence
Doesn't care anymore
Worrying too much about where he's going to play next year
No more desire
Not happy
Crying
Being a baby

Take your pick.

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Old
03-30-2008, 02:29 PM
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i think we are all underestimating the influence nylander had on him.

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Old
03-30-2008, 02:34 PM
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Doesn't care anymore
Worrying too much about where he's going to play next year
No more desire
Not happy
Crying
Being a baby

Take your pick.
You know, Mike Milbury was saying the same kind of garbage about Jagr. You have the same idea as Mike Milbury.....Mike....Milbury.

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Old
03-30-2008, 02:39 PM
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You know, Mike Milbury was saying the same kind of garbage about Jagr. You have the same idea as Mike Milbury.....Mike....Milbury.
Garbage? The guy is a BUM this year. An out and out bum. He is an embarassment to the Ranger sweater. Anyone who doesn't see that is blind. Absolutely blind. He goes out there, skates in circles for his 15-20 minutes a game. Goes in the locker room, doesn't care a bit, goes home, and worries about what he's doing next year. He is a joke. A world class talent that doesn't give a crap. And he's a captain no less.

What an embarassment.

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03-30-2008, 02:41 PM
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Eh... does it really matter anymore? He's on this team at least till the end of the season so we'll have to deal with it, whatever it is.

All I know is that almost every single one of his goals this season have been garbage goals or scored from around the net. I seriously doubt his shot is coming back.

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Old
03-30-2008, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
Garbage? The guy is a BUM this year. An out and out bum. He is an embarassment to the Ranger sweater. Anyone who doesn't see that is blind. Absolutely blind. He goes out there, skates in circles for his 15-20 minutes a game. Goes in the locker room, doesn't care a bit, goes home, and worries about what he's doing next year. He is a joke. A world class talent that doesn't give a crap. And he's a captain no less.

What an embarassment.
Not only is your assessment of his game WAY off, but I especially enjoyed the part where you claim he "goes in the locker room, doesnt care a bit" Do we have a celebrity here at HFboards? How are you privy to such information?

The first post above is pretty much spot on about Jagr. He, along with Shanahan are declining, but Jagr is still the second best forward on this team. Judging by your avatar, would you rather Petr Prucha take the punishment and attention Jagr receives every night? Or better yet, who do you suggest replaces this "bum?"

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Old
03-30-2008, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Not only is your assessment of his game WAY off, but I especially enjoyed the part where you claim he "goes in the locker room, doesnt care a but" Do we have a celebrity here at HFboards? How are you privy to such information?

The first post above is pretty much spot on about Jagr. He, along with Shanahan are declining, but Jagr is still the second best forward on this team. Judging by your avatar, would you rather Petr Prucha take the punishment and attention Jagr receives every night? Or better yet, who do you suggest replaces this "bum?"
I hope he retires. And you calling him the 2nd best forward on this team is laughable. Let's see, I'll name all the forwards that are better than him on this team right now.

Gomez
Dubinsky
Drury
Avery
Shanahan is on par with him
Rozsival is a better forward than he is
Dawes can atleast score in the shoot out
Callahan atleast hits and tries hard
Betts is more valuable

I just hope this guy retires at the end of the year. I really do. He drags down this team so much.

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Old
03-30-2008, 03:09 PM
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i think we are all underestimating the influence nylander had on him.
dead on

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Old
03-30-2008, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
Garbage? The guy is a BUM this year. An out and out bum. He is an embarassment to the Ranger sweater. Anyone who doesn't see that is blind. Absolutely blind. He goes out there, skates in circles for his 15-20 minutes a game. Goes in the locker room, doesn't care a bit, goes home, and worries about what he's doing next year. He is a joke. A world class talent that doesn't give a crap. And he's a captain no less.

What an embarassment.

wow. That is honestly the BEST description of Jagr. Kudos to you, I completely AGREE!.. Get this washed up bum off our team ASAP. Sather is thinking of resigning him??... Maybe last year when all we had was him.. but with Gomez and Drury now. I personally believe Drury can take over this team and lead it the right way. PLEASE GET RID OF JAGR. PLEASEEEE

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Old
03-30-2008, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You know, Mike Milbury was saying the same kind of garbage about Jagr. You have the same idea as Mike Milbury.....Mike....Milbury.
Yeah, I'm sick and tired of hearing Milbury and his venomous attacks on Jags. I haven't been 100% supportive of the way Jagr has played this year, but a piece of tape across Milbury's mouth would be a productive prop at this point. Who cares if Jagr met with the GM from Russia or whatever he did? It's still this season - next season is months away, and a lot can happen between now and then.

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03-30-2008, 03:29 PM
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Yeah, I'm sick and tired of hearing Milbury and his venomous attacks on Jags. I haven't been 100% supportive of the way Jagr has played this year, but a piece of tape across Milbury's mouth would be a productive prop at this point. Who cares if Jagr met with the GM from Russia or whatever he did? It's still this season - next season is months away, and a lot can happen between now and then.
So you have no problem with the CAPTAIN of this team, in the midst of a playoff race, meeting with a GM of another team, discussing plans for next season? That's not a distraction to himself and the team? Wow.

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03-30-2008, 03:31 PM
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Jags is probably tired of listening to all this bull about him, he probably wants to knock out a few people

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Old
03-30-2008, 03:33 PM
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Jags is probably tired of listening to all this bull about him, he probably wants to knock out a few people
I wish he would. That would be the first productive thing he has done all year.

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03-30-2008, 03:35 PM
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I wish he would. That would be the first productive thing he has done all year.
haha yea, he should knock out crosby

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03-30-2008, 03:36 PM
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So you have no problem with the CAPTAIN of this team, in the midst of a playoff race, meeting with a GM of another team, discussing plans for next season? That's not a distraction to himself and the team? Wow.
Nope, I honestly don't have a problem with it. It's business. He should play where he wants to play. And from the beginning of his "captaincy" (for lack of a better word), I've never bought into the idea that he is singlehandedly leading the team. IMHO, that's been a collective effort by several of the veterans, including Shanny. But the one thing I do have a problem with, that really does tick me off, is someone who is not affiliated with the team trashing Jagr every chance he gets, which Milbury seems to have adopted as his pet cause.

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03-30-2008, 03:38 PM
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Nope, I honestly don't have a problem with it. It's business. He should play where he wants to play. And from the beginning of his "captaincy" (for lack of a better word), I've never bought into the idea that he is singlehandedly leading the team. IMHO, that's been a collective effort by several of the veterans, including Shanny. But the one thing I do have a problem with, that really does tick me off, is someone who is not affiliated with the team trashing Jagr every chance he gets, which Milbury seems to have adopted as his pet cause.
Yea Milbury is a loser who is nuts for actually going into the stands back in the day and took his skate off, he needs to leave Jags alone, it is not a time to bash a player when your showing him on tv

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Old
03-30-2008, 03:38 PM
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Nope, I honestly don't have a problem with it. It's business. He should play where he wants to play. And from the beginning of his "captaincy" (for lack of a better word), I've never bought into the idea that he is singlehandedly leading the team. IMHO, that's been a collective effort by several of the veterans, including Shanny. But the one thing I do have a problem with, that really does tick me off, is someone who is not affiliated with the team trashing Jagr every chance he gets, which Milbury seems to have adopted as his pet cause.
Eh, whatever. It doesn't bother me. Milbury is a fool and everyone knows it. You would think all the trash talked about Jagr would light a fire under his ass...but no. Jagr STILL doesn't care. He doesn't even have a sense of pride.

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03-30-2008, 03:43 PM
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I hope he retires. And you calling him the 2nd best forward on this team is laughable. Let's see, I'll name all the forwards that are better than him on this team right now.

Gomez
Dubinsky
Drury
Avery
Shanahan is on par with him
Rozsival is a better forward than he is
Dawes can atleast score in the shoot out
Callahan atleast hits and tries hard
Betts is more valuable

I just hope this guy retires at the end of the year. I really do. He drags down this team so much.

Ugh.I normally don't quote these kind of craps, but this really wants me to puke.

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Old
03-30-2008, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
I hope he retires. And you calling him the 2nd best forward on this team is laughable. Let's see, I'll name all the forwards that are better than him on this team right now.

Gomez
Dubinsky
Drury
Avery
Shanahan is on par with him
Rozsival is a better forward than he is
Dawes can atleast score in the shoot out
Callahan atleast hits and tries hard
Betts is more valuable
I partially agree with you. When Jagr plays without caring, that statement is 100% true. When he plays like he cares, he is an absolute beast. The only problem is there have only been a handful of games in which he played with that fire this season. I still think come playoff time, he is going to go all out like last season (or at least I hope so...)


As for the list of players, the difference with them is they go out and give it their all. Take a look at a typical night from Dawes, Cally, Drury or Gomez. They go out there and play shift after shift. Rozsi can play great, but when he is on the ice with Jagr, well, we all know what happens then

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03-30-2008, 04:09 PM
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I think the major reason is declining skills and when a player hits his mid-30's, we have to understand that it can come any time.

Don't forget, Jagr's been playing since he was 18 and has a lot of mileage on him at this point.

Having said that, I think Jagr's main problem is that people remember what he was and not what he is. I think he's still a capable 25 goal, 75 point player in the right situation, but he's not going to be the 45 goal, 120 point player that people remember.

There were a lot of people on here who really bought into the belief that Jagr was going to be a star into his late 30's. They quoted that statement by his father about feeling like he wasn't at his peak until he was 37 or something along those lines and ultimately they set themselves up for disappointment.

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03-30-2008, 04:27 PM
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take your pick..

different linemates
injury
declining skill
can't play in defensive system
too picky about his sticks
lack of confidence
Its really starting to escelate in the east lately. When Jagr gets the puck, whatever D that is covering him jumps into him right away.

Last season if D's would have done that, or did that, JJ feed a Nyls or Straka who came streaking towards him. Nyls scored allot of goals after D's had overcommited on JJ.

Now JJ don't got thoose options. The result isn't only anymore that he don't get the assists as it where early in the season, D's in the east have learned that they can attack him much harder much faster, while they got their speed up, so now he looses the puck right away too.

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03-30-2008, 04:31 PM
  #24
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Its really starting to escelate in the east lately. When Jagr gets the puck, whatever D that is covering him jumps into him right away.

Last season if D's would have done that, or did that, JJ feed a Nyls or Straka who came streaking towards him. Nyls scored allot of goals after D's had overcommited on JJ.

Now JJ don't got thoose options. The result isn't only anymore that he don't get the assists as it where early in the season, D's in the east have learned that they can attack him much harder much faster, while they got their speed up, so now he looses the puck right away too.
Agreed. And he's still making Avery and Dubinsky look pretty damn good.

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03-30-2008, 04:40 PM
  #25
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I think the major reason is declining skills and when a player hits his mid-30's, we have to understand that it can come any time.

Don't forget, Jagr's been playing since he was 18 and has a lot of mileage on him at this point.

Having said that, I think Jagr's main problem is that people remember what he was and not what he is. I think he's still a capable 25 goal, 75 point player in the right situation, but he's not going to be the 45 goal, 120 point player that people remember.

There were a lot of people on here who really bought into the belief that Jagr was going to be a star into his late 30's. They quoted that statement by his father about feeling like he wasn't at his peak until he was 37 or something along those lines and ultimately they set themselves up for disappointment.
Yeah and underestimated Nyls and Straka's relevance for his success last season. Not only where thooes 2 underestimated as players -- they thought the game exactly like JJ too.

I defenitly agrees with you that JJ is still of some value, just not "franchise value". There defenitly isn't many players outside the absolute top who would score more then him while getting the same attention while playing with Dubinsky as their center and Straka/Avery as their LW. Like there probably is 30 guys like that, but thats still only 1 forward per team. It would defenitly not be "easy" to replace him.

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