Funny how people forget about Souray.
Whatever Lowe does this offseason, we're gonna "acquire" a top-4, elite-PP-specialist, PK-specialist dman this summer*
*assuming Souray doesn't get injured again next year
Again I say that although having Souray and Staios listed 1st pairing it would not mean that they play the most minutes. the 3 pairings would be fairly even in minutes played making Staios fresher for his crucial minutes. Souray may be injury prone but you can not walk into next season assuming that he will not play.
The funny thing about this debate is how the love in with Pitkanen has subsided.
Earlier in the year their was a topic on the board as to who was the more important member of the blue line Pits or Souray.
The response was solidly in favor of Pitkanen, but now we need to add another top pair D?
The Oil blue line today is a strength of this roster and will only improve with the addition of Souray next season.
People on this board will still choose Pits over Souray. This does not mean that our D is above league average (which we need it to be). Upgrading Smid to a Redden or Kubina would make our D top 10 in the league... leaving it as is will see our goals against total to on of the league's worst again.
People on this board will still choose Pits over Souray. This does not mean that our D is above league average (which we need it to be). Upgrading Smid to a Redden or Kubina would make our D top 10 in the league... leaving it as is will see our goals against total to on of the league's worst again.
So I see you are you JFJ's formula of building a defence.
Can never have too many high priced d-man
4.5---5.5
5.25--2.5
2.8---1.25\1.75
thats almost 24 mil on 7 players. God I would rather play my 7 and use the 5.5 on a better forward
and some would rather play penner-horcoff-hemsky, gagner-cogliano-nillson as top 6 and get a better defenseman ..
look at our goals FOR and goals AGAINST and decide what is the greater need.
and some would rather play penner-horcoff-hemsky, gagner-cogliano-nillson as top 6 and get a better defenseman ..
look at our goals FOR and goals AGAINST and decide what is the greater need.
I would rather just develop what we got. I agree we'd be building a lot like the Maple Leafs.
Our goals against will drop because our younger D will be a year older and have made a lot of their mistakes this year already.
Huddy will make that work, there is talent and even size on our back end, we just have to let it develop. The worst thing possible would be we spend $4-$5 million on another D and then realize Pitkanen/Gilbert/Grebs/Smid all took big strides in their game and taking on that long term contract was unnecessary.
I would maybe think about a Mike Commodore for depth purposes and to add a little more sandpaper to our blueline but that's about it. Or maybe you add a guy like Rosival at the deadline.
Even though we haven't had trouble scoring lately our goals for is still inflated greatly by shootout goals as well.
I would love to add a player like Jokinen if he's available over say another d-man like Kubina.
I would love to add a player like Jokinen if he's available over say another d-man like Kubina.
Jokinen would obviously cost us an arm n a leg.. where Kubina can be had for ANA 1st or Smid
If letting our D develope is what we want then we should also let our young forwards develope. However I winning is the goal then we need a shutdown Dman before a top 6 scorer.
offcourse if u are talking about Jokinen, Horton or Lecavalier then an exception can be made.
I think people are worried of Pitkanen's ability to stay healthy. His skill is great, his talent is great, his heart and ability to play hurt and stay healthy are what some people are worried about, me included.
Jokinen would obviously cost us an arm n a leg.. where Kubina can be had for ANA 1st or Smid
If letting our D develope is what we want then we should also let our young forwards develope. However I winning is the goal then we need a shutdown Dman before a top 6 scorer.
offcourse if u are talking about Jokinen, Horton or Lecavalier then an exception can be made.
You never know, Jokinen's trade value has dropped with his play of late and I think he may be done in Florida.
Kubina for another $5 million, factoring in the raises to Gilbert, Pitkanen, and Grebeshkov and Souray's $5.4 million ... it's just not a smart way to build a team.
You look at teams like Columbus ... it's not like their D is stocked with big contracts. It's better to just develop what you got IMO.
The reason why we give up goals is because we're the youngest team in the NHL for crying out loud. Of course we're going to give up some goals. It's just part of the process.
Every year that passes however, we'll get better. This is probably the roughest year right here, as we had so many new guys and so many guys playing in their first full seasons. Pitkanen will be in his what ... fifth season next year? Gilbert and Grebs now have full seasons under their belt. Smid will be going into year 3 next year. Greene into year 3/4 as well. I think you will see some solid progression next season.
I think people are worried of Pitkanen's ability to stay healthy. His skill is great, his talent is great, his heart and ability to play hurt and stay healthy are what some people are worried about, me included.
lemme add to the worries:
Souray's health
Pitkanen's heart
Grebeshkov's consistency
Smid's head
Staios' puck handling
Gilbert's lack of physical play
Greene's lack of development and loss of physical play
i am weary of making many UFA signings this off season. I would only add Jody Shelley.
The Oilers are 13-4-1 in their last 18 games without playing Horcoff, Souray, Torres. They enter their final 2 season games 2 points out of the playoffs despite nwo also missing Garon and playing Pitkanen with an injured groin. The kids have shown they can play, score and win. And win with drama and style. The closest thing to thsi is th Penguins season last year but they have 2 phenoms and HAD a piss poor Flyer club to pound 8 times last year for an easy 16 points.
Adding Horcoff and Souray and Torres back to the mix while be like adding 3 UFAs this summer. Advantage is that they are already under contract for outrageous 2007 dollar value instead of even more outrageous 2008 dollar value.
Maybe one at leat is trade bait this off season or sooner (hopefully) at the draft in Ottawa.
Going into season you have talented vets added to the winning core of youngsters who will only improve (and in some cases- improve exponentially!). Let the young guns grow by covering other areas of responsibility that is negelcted or missed by the vets (due to injury or poor performance).. Similar to this year with Bobby Nilsson improving LEAPS ands BOUNDS and currently leading in +/- ratings for the club.
If we need to add a vet or pending UFA and immediate impact player come 2009 deadline will we will have the bait. And if we need one more year to truly re-build then we can dump vets for the future too.
You never know, Jokinen's trade value has dropped with his play of late and I think he may be done in Florida.
Kubina for another $5 million, factoring in the raises to Gilbert, Pitkanen, and Grebeshkov and Souray's $5.4 million ... it's just not a smart way to build a team.
You look at teams like Columbus ... it's not like their D is stocked with big contracts. It's better to just develop what you got IMO.
The reason why we give up goals is because we're the youngest team in the NHL for crying out loud. Of course we're going to give up some goals. It's just part of the process.
Every year that passes however, we'll get better. This is probably the roughest year right here, as we had so many new guys and so many guys playing in their first full seasons. Pitkanen will be in his what ... fifth season next year? Gilbert and Grebs now have full seasons under their belt. Smid will be going into year 3 next year. Greene into year 3/4 as well. I think you will see some solid progression next season.
I just think that asking Gilbert, Grebeshkov and Pitkanen to clear the high end traffic in front of our net is asking for too much. The teams are just throwing the puck in front of the net and crashing\banging in the garbage goals. Having Souray next year will help but another sandpaperish vetran Dman would also be helpful.
Also a lot of our better defensive forwards have been injured during the year. Horcoff, Moreau, Torres ... those injuries hurt us defensively. Pisani was out the first few months too.
Our GA I think is a little inflated as well because of Mac T continually starting Roloson when he was struggling early on and not accepting Garon as the no.1.
How many teams outside of Anaheim and Ottawa really have a completely rock solid top 4 anyway? Most teams don't need to spend $25+ million on their blueline to have a decent group.
We just need to be patient rather than throwing a ton of more money at the problem.
I just think that asking Gilbert, Grebeshkov and Pitkanen to clear the high end traffic in front of our net is asking for too much. The teams are just throwing the puck in front of the net and crashing\banging in the garbage goals. Having Souray next year will help but another sandpaperish vetran Dman would also be helpful.
Then sign Commodore for $2 million or so for say two years. I don't see the point however of taking on $5-$7 million for Kubina or Redden for multiple years because of that.
I think Smid and Pitkanen can develop in that area as well.
The Flames have a defense full of these types of guys and it's not like their D is that great either. Our defense has a lot of ability that other teams will be envious in time if we can keep this group together.
And if we do get Redden/top line defender:
One of Greene/Smid and whatever else it takes to get an elite first-line player (as impossible as it may be)
I re-watched the Wings / Oilers game where we won 4-3 in a SO... same game Torres was injured.
WOW, we were HORRIBLE!! We didn't have much of a transition game. Grebs was shaky (he was stripped of the puck quite often) and Souray did not make many outlet passes and was kinda ****. His wrist shot lead to a PP goal tho and I think having him back in the lineup adds another dimension to it. Joni was unreal - I can't wait to have him healthy again. His skating ability opens up many more scoring opportunities.
However, the forwards (Torres, Stoll, Thoresen, Reasoner) were making passes to random areas. I assume it was a chemistry issue. There was zero cycle going on. We won because Gagner and Nilsson and Hemsky were making sweet plays out of **** all.
I'm warying about changing the lineup because this team plays so well together - especially the forwards. The third line is a bit of blender tho' and probably contributes very little to the scoresheet.
I don't have grand expectations, but the Oilers have a lot of players they can move. If I had to pick I'd want the defenseman first. I'm not totally sold on Pitkanen and would probably prefer any of the above guys to him in the long run.
If the Oilers cannot get anything major done so be it.
Redden refused to waive his NTC clause to come to Edmonton. What makes you think he'll come as a UFA? This week's dream offseason:
Stoll, Schremp, and Smid for Kubina + 2nd
Trade Roloson for Denis (salary dump FTW)
Sign Mike Peca 2 years @ $2.25 million per season
Trade ANA 1st 08 + EDM 3rd 09 for Jaroslav Halak + MTL 3rd 08
how is schremp out all of a sudden he never even got in in the first place, i think he deserves a shot at least. Look at all the chances that Torres gets and his upside is long gone in my eyes but lots of people think he is the next best thing since sliced bread.
Some people have had it right me thinks in regards to the needs for this team. We need another shut-down d-man who can play some tough minutes. Whether its to replace a guy like Staios, or to have in addition with Staios, we need someone who can help keep the goals against down.
And depending on what the Oilers do with Stoll/Torres I might look at seeing if Peca would consider coming back to Edmonton, play him with Moreau/Pisani and have one of the top shut-down lines in the league.
It might be nice to also bring in someone with a bit more game than Stortini for the 4th line to really round that line out. Because IMO, Stortini is a clearly a large step behind Brodziak and Glencross
I wonder what kind of a d-man a package of Stoll+Torres+Greene would bring in. Although I'm still not sure we should give up on the guy yet
It doesn't seem like there is alot to be done, but I think that there is the potential for Lowe to make some low-key moves which could really make a difference for this team.
