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Jokinen Wants To Stay, Willing To Give Up Captaincy

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Old
04-08-2008, 05:33 PM
  #51
Georgia Panther
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KWGoon View Post
Question: Which 3 capital cities were never occupied in Europe during WW2? (among warring countries)
Answer: London, Moscow, Helsinki.
Well. London did get the bejesus bombed out of it and living in the suburbs of Moscow on December 5th 1941 wasn't so fun as the Germans got within 40 miles of the city center.

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04-08-2008, 07:56 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Finland, if I recall, was invaded by Russia numerious times in it's history. Brings back fond memories of years back when one of our Finnish Fans was going out it with one of our Swedish fans and I interjected myself with my dry wit by commenting, "Isn't it time Russia invaded Finland again?
lol

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Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
I believe Finland was where the first Russian Czar came from, actually. The Russians were disorganized and wanted protection from various factions, so they invited a prominant Finn in to rule them.

Have to check with my (Russian) wife on that detail - she's pretty well versed in Russian history, having been a tour guide for a number of years.

And I believe to be honest Russia actually failed to invade Finland on a couple of occasions. Otherwise they'd have been part of the Soviet Union, since the Soviets didn't let anyone go until they collapsed themselves. Poland on the other hand...well, they made a mistake in conquering part of Russia at one point, forever earning the bad blood of Russians, who returned the favor at least twice.

And this concludes our history lesson for the day...tomorrow I hope to continue with actual facts instead of half-remembered generalizations


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Originally Posted by Clint View Post
90 years. Finland declared independence after Russia's 1917 revolution and have fought several wars against Russia. There is no way Jokinen has SOVIET blood. He may be of ancient Russian ancestry, but it's not likely.

And look at the guy. You think those weird facial features are prototypical of a Russian? Compare Jokinen's face to almost any Russian's. You'll see a difference.
Youtube or your lying.

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Originally Posted by KWGoon View Post
Question: Which 3 capital cities were never occupied in Europe during WW2? (among warring countries)
Answer: London, Moscow, Helsinki.

Regarding invasion by the eastern neighbor - and this is a big deal for those who care - Finland was not occupied by Soviet Union (which existed only after 1917) but it was an autonomous Grand Duchy of Russia from about 1800 to 1917.

Having said that, I can't guarantee Olli has no Russian blood, but if he does, it's most likely from Karelia which is just on the Russian side of the border.
No Soviet blood in Karelia?

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Originally Posted by RCGP View Post
Why does it matter where Olli came from? Having Russian blood doesn't effect your leadership qualities or your talent.
Well the Soviet Communists all had that that strict unemotional serious faces at least from the ww2 footage i've seen and plus it's obvious there is some bad blood between the USA and Russia, meaning they have soviet traits in the blood, every time the US president went to meet up with Putin, I'm like that room is so full of inner hate and hyprocritism.


Last edited by Vokoun29: 04-08-2008 at 11:45 PM.
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04-09-2008, 03:54 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Vokoun29 View Post

Well the Soviet Communists all had that that strict unemotional serious faces at least from the ww2 footage i've seen and plus it's obvious there is some bad blood between the USA and Russia, meaning they have soviet traits in the blood, every time the US president went to meet up with Putin, I'm like that room is so full of inner hate and hyprocritism.
Because that wasn't propaganda or anything. Just because the former USSR came off like jerks in the media doesn't mean the regular people that lived there were void of leadership qualities.

Most NHL captains are Canadian, but thats not because Canadians are better leaders, its because there are more Canadians in the league.

Jokinen is a decent captain, but probably not a great one. However I highly doubt it has anything to do with the type of "blood" he may be carrying.

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04-09-2008, 07:48 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by RCGP View Post
Why does it matter where Olli came from? Having Russian blood doesn't effect your leadership qualities or your talent.
Well, it matters because the area in Finland where he comes from (Savo), everybody calls themselves "chief" ("piällysmies") so he must have leadership qualities

JOL

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04-09-2008, 07:55 AM
  #55
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This thread took on such a random direction.

Olli's bloodlines are irrelevant IMO, as I believe the main reason he became captain material was due to the guiding hand of Iron Mike.

Now that a couple years separate them, the residual effect of Keenan's influence might be wearing thin.

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04-09-2008, 09:54 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
What about Brian Rolston guys? I know he is 35, but the guy can score 25+ goals, and seems to be a good leader with the Wild. I think an offseason of Rolston, Prospal, and Campbell would be a successful one. Maybe too much money, but just a thought.
Rolston will possibly be re-signed by the Wild prior to July 1st. Demitra OTOH will probably not be re-signed by the Wild. so they can afford to re-sign Gaborik. At least thats the rumors that I've read on Spector's.

And many people expect Campbell to re-sign with the Sharks once the season is over. They have the cap room and both Brian and the team saw a difference in play since the trade brought them together.

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04-09-2008, 10:39 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmanfu View Post
This thread took on such a random direction.

Olli's bloodlines are irrelevant IMO, as I believe the main reason he became captain material was due to the guiding hand of Iron Mike.

Now that a couple years separate them, the residual effect of Keenan's influence might be wearing thin.
Can you please lock this yoosless thread?

Oh, wait.

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04-09-2008, 11:24 AM
  #58
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Can you please lock this yoosless thread?

Oh, wait.
You're lucky there's no rule against "former-mod abuse"

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04-09-2008, 11:29 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
You're lucky there's no rule against "former-mod abuse"
He's a peon now, just like I am. If he can't stand the heat in the kitchen, he better...

GYIIIIT OOOWT!!! :redneck smiley:

And since when are you one to reprimand yourself?

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04-09-2008, 11:32 AM
  #60
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To be fair, Ratman actually does make a very valid point. It is clear that Iron Mike is responsible for Olli's success in the NHL. From what I remember he was a few months from taking that NHL bust label back to Finland. Keenan lit that fire under his ass and he's been a different player since. Maybe without an iron fisted disciplinarian, Olli's effectiveness as a leader and a player are wearing away?

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04-09-2008, 12:48 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
He's a peon now, just like I am. If he can't stand the heat in the kitchen, he better...

GYIIIIT OOOWT!!! :redneck smiley:

And since when are you one to reprimand yourself?
Frequently...I'm a member of that Catholic order from The Da Vinci Code...you know, the one whose members whip themselves with the barbed straps as penance for their sins?

And since you and I are one, and I'm sure you've got a laundry list of sins in your past...well...best get used to sleeping on your belly.

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04-09-2008, 01:00 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Clint View Post
To be fair, Ratman actually does make a very valid point. It is clear that Iron Mike is responsible for Olli's success in the NHL. From what I remember he was a few months from taking that NHL bust label back to Finland. Keenan lit that fire under his ass and he's been a different player since. Maybe without an iron fisted disciplinarian, Olli's effectiveness as a leader and a player are wearing away?
But it wasn't iron-fistedness that Keenan gave Olli - it was confidence. What made Olli blossom was Keenan telling him at the start of the season "you're my #1, I'm not going to demote you for little mistakes." So Olli went into that season not worrying about doing things wrong, which allowed him to do what he does right and gain confidence in his own abilities.

Now, thing is...several years on it's possible he has such an expectation of being the top center he doesn't give as much effort to keep the job. But I don't even think that's it. As I suggested near the trade deadline, Olli's confidence took a blow in the Zednik incident...suddenly he had something in the back of his mind whenever he took the ice that could easily be holding him back. Might be that he is afraid to play all out because he thinks his reckless abandon on a play led to Zeds' injury, so now he's holding back to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Now, this is excusable for about a month - but at some point around that time someone HAD to sit him down - maybe Zednik himself - and explain to him it was a pure accident, he couldn't have done anything, and he needs to just get back on the horse, go back to playing the way he did before to be the best player he can be. I don't know if anyone did that, but if they did Olli didn't listen, and that's not the mental toughness I'd call exemplary of a player good enough to lead the team.

If no one did that, there's bigger problems with this team than Olli.

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04-09-2008, 01:25 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
If no one did that, there's bigger problems with this team than Olli.


And even if someone did that there's bigger problems with this team than Olli!!!

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04-09-2008, 01:34 PM
  #64
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And even if someone did that there's bigger problems with this team than Olli!!!
Well, I admit in typing that post I was narrowly focused on the topic about which I was typing. I know there's more problems than just Olli. But talking about his lack of production since the Zednik incident, if no one talked to him to get him through it it suggests there's a major lack of comraderie amongst the team, or maybe just that Olli is isolated from the rest of the team himself (there's actually a bit of evidence to this, since there were a number of games from March on where Olli was one of the only players struggling in wins). Major chemistry issues like that are going to be a major roadblock to the team making the playoffs.

But, I don't know - the problem here is no one knows what goes on behind the scenes. We only see the result of action or inaction, so it makes it hard to know if Olli's lacking character or the team's lacking chemistry, or both.

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04-09-2008, 02:30 PM
  #65
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Ollie is not the problem, the problem is that we don't have enough players that produce like Ollie and they don't don't have the guts to take the blame.

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04-09-2008, 03:11 PM
  #66
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Ollie is not the problem, the problem is that we don't have enough players that produce like Ollie and they don't don't have the guts to take the blame.
Olli didn't produce much down the stretch when he was most needed and was pretty well matched by several other players who also did more to prevent scoring against than he did.

Olli isn't the problem, but he's a part of the problem.

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04-09-2008, 03:15 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
Olli didn't produce much down the stretch when he was most needed and was pretty well matched by several other players who also did more to prevent scoring against than he did.

Olli isn't the problem, but he's a part of the problem.
I will agree, but that's not to say he should go or be dismissed. I'm relatively confident he will return to form next season. For God's sake, he scored 70+ points this year, and that's an 'off-season' for him.

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04-09-2008, 04:39 PM
  #68
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I will agree, but that's not to say he should go or be dismissed. I'm relatively confident he will return to form next season. For God's sake, he scored 70+ points this year, and that's an 'off-season' for him.
Yeah, but he scored the bulk of those 70+ points prior to the end of January...he went from a point-a-game player prior to "the incident" to a less than 1/2 point-per-game down the stretch when he was needed most.

I'm not saying he should be traded...but certainly trading him needs to be considered as an option at this point. The slump lasted over two months, even despite it appeared Zednik would fully recover from the injury and even return to hockey next season.

But regardless, if I'm remembering correctly I believe my point was merely that he was part of the Panthers' problems down the stretch.

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04-09-2008, 04:44 PM
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I will agree, but that's not to say he should go or be dismissed. I'm relatively confident he will return to form next season. For God's sake, he scored 70+ points this year, and that's an 'off-season' for him.
Right. There's been quite a bit of Olli critique lately - although rightly so because we didn't make the playoffs. But it's also a good idea to step back and look at some of the positives, not just the +-. For example, in an off-season for Olli, he was 3rd in PP scoring after Ovechkin and Vanek. When it comes to shooting the puck Olli's among the elite. His shot selection will hopefully improve if we get a scorer on his line so he doesn't have to carry the load. Do we really want to get rid of this guy?

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04-09-2008, 04:56 PM
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Yeah, but he scored the bulk of those 70+ points prior to the end of January...he went from a point-a-game player prior to "the incident" to a less than 1/2 point-per-game down the stretch when he was needed most.

I'm not saying he should be traded...but certainly trading him needs to be considered as an option at this point. The slump lasted over two months, even despite it appeared Zednik would fully recover from the injury and even return to hockey next season.

But regardless, if I'm remembering correctly I believe my point was merely that he was part of the Panthers' problems down the stretch.
To clarify my previous post, I agree with your point. Olli was more of a problem than a solution down the stretch, or at best a neutral influence. But my concern is that if I weigh the potential return for Olli at this point when other GMs will probably try to take advantage of his reduced stats, I don't think we'll like the offers. Like a struggling business, this is a bad time to sell it.

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04-09-2008, 05:02 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by KWGoon View Post
Right. There's been quite a bit of Olli critique lately - although rightly so because we didn't make the playoffs. But it's also a good idea to step back and look at some of the positives, not just the +-. For example, in an off-season for Olli, he was 3rd in PP scoring after Ovechkin and Vanek. When it comes to shooting the puck Olli's among the elite. His shot selection will hopefully improve if we get a scorer on his line so he doesn't have to carry the load. Do we really want to get rid of this guy?
i don't think many would disagree with that summation. the +/- isn't the only concern though, as evidenced by this lengthy thread.

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04-09-2008, 11:19 PM
  #72
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Question anyone that has seen Olli play for Team Finland, any noted difference in terms of emotions and leadership compared to him playing on the Cats?

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04-10-2008, 08:46 AM
  #73
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Olli has given everything for this team. He wants to play here still. He underperformed down the stretch, yeah but rightly so. Wouldn't you if something like that happened to you(Zednik incident). Give the guy a break, he almost killed his winger and thinks it would have been his fault if that happened. You guys are saying he should have been fine after a month but really there is no timetable to really recover from something like that. I think before Olli can get past it, Zednik needs to start playing. IMO until that happens Olli won't be the same.

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04-10-2008, 08:56 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by KWGoon View Post
Right. There's been quite a bit of Olli critique lately - although rightly so because we didn't make the playoffs. But it's also a good idea to step back and look at some of the positives, not just the +-. For example, in an off-season for Olli, he was 3rd in PP scoring after Ovechkin and Vanek. When it comes to shooting the puck Olli's among the elite. His shot selection will hopefully improve if we get a scorer on his line so he doesn't have to carry the load. Do we really want to get rid of this guy?
No!!! If it wasn't for the Zednik incident we would have made the playoffs even with all the other injuries we had this year. Before his injury we were rolling out two scoring lines!!! Zed/Olli/McLean & the Sawgrass X-press! We were really clicking and that top line was really scoring alot. I think Zed had 7 goals in like a week and a half. I say keep Olli, he never gave up on us and we should not give up on him!!!

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04-10-2008, 09:25 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by KWGoon View Post
To clarify my previous post, I agree with your point. Olli was more of a problem than a solution down the stretch, or at best a neutral influence. But my concern is that if I weigh the potential return for Olli at this point when other GMs will probably try to take advantage of his reduced stats, I don't think we'll like the offers. Like a struggling business, this is a bad time to sell it.
Very logical. I think this may be the strongest argument against trading Jokinen at this point.

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