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Henrik Lundqvist???

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Old
04-04-2008, 06:32 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
... which happens every time he goes into a slump...

.
Those people need to invest $159 USD to purchase NHL Center Ice and take a good look at the lack of quality goaltending in the NHL.They either have a short attention span or have other issues.

The Rangers would not have made the playoffs without Henrik this season and you can make that same case the previous two seasons.

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04-04-2008, 06:57 AM
  #27
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The Jedi doesn't challenge, the Jedi reacts he does

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04-04-2008, 06:59 AM
  #28
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Hanks depth in the net is really an important part of his game and i think it is proven in by his success in shootouts. The reason why he is so good is because he is so controlled and patient on the first shot, the little bit of depth in net gives him a fraction of a second more reaction time once a shooter commits.... funny enough i feel like hank is at his best when he looks frozen in the net and then at the last second when hes out waited the shooter it only takes him minimum effort to make the stop... Just my opinion though

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04-04-2008, 07:00 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
The Jedi doesn't challenge, the Jedi reacts he does
lol, ok fine...mines just a little wordier..

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04-04-2008, 08:34 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
Hanks depth in the net is really an important part of his game and i think it is proven in by his success in shootouts. The reason why he is so good is because he is so controlled and patient on the first shot, the little bit of depth in net gives him a fraction of a second more reaction time once a shooter commits.... funny enough i feel like hank is at his best when he looks frozen in the net and then at the last second when hes out waited the shooter it only takes him minimum effort to make the stop... Just my opinion though
I defenitly agree. The deeper you can play in the net and save the first shot the better.

Then there of course is a balance act, cause its no good to be deep in the net if you let in the first shot. Thats one thing I am sure will come with age for him. Like if Marian Hossa stands at the top of the slot and gets a chance to get of a shot clean and pick a corner -- its probably worth the risk of taking a stride out of the net.

Thats really what separates him from putting in a absolute top notch season; on par with Brodeurs best years for example. Aside of course from the slump he had this year...

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04-04-2008, 08:51 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TrueBlue9 View Post
I think I recall Hank being asked about this and said he would rather have the extra second to react being back in the bet then be out challenging the shooter
Extra second? Must be facing some slow shots!

To the OP - love the avatar!

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04-04-2008, 09:23 AM
  #32
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I think as he grows he'll learn when to come out a little more.

Occasionally he is beaten on longer shots through screens that deflect and such. I think he'll be coming out of the net a little more but not much as his career moves along.

He'll cut down the extra 10-20 goals he would let up in a season otherwise and he'll be even better.

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Old
04-04-2008, 09:27 AM
  #33
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The only time your gonna see Hank come out to challange is on a breakaway, or in the shootout. Otherwise it's deep and butterfly 98% of the time, which does leave him vunerable upstairs, but if he can see it he'll stop it.

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Old
04-04-2008, 10:07 AM
  #34
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I've been playing net for 15 years. I 5'8" and I don't play strict butterfly since it wasn't taught that way when I was younger, not to mention my knees will not and cannot bend that way. I tend to play mostly Brodeur's style, which is a hybrid of standup, a little butterfly (but mostly half butterfly) and a little of everything else like two pad stacks and scrambling. For about 11 years, I cut off the angle on everything (more like Richter) and although I showed a lot of improvement (I did play hockey in college), it wasn't until recently when I watched Lundqvist play that I really took off. My reflexes were always really quick, but now I play deep in the net on any slap shots from the point, deflections, and screens and it's really amazing how much rebound control that extra second to react gives you. It also cuts down the amount of side to side movement you need (obviously the arc of the circle to cut down the angle is longer when you come out farther) so I can get set/square quicker when I'm deeper and focus more on reacting to the shot (rather than making sure I'm in the right place). In addition, I play relatively deep on wrist shots from either side. The only time I cut off the angle will be wrist shots from the middle of the ice (otherwise there's a lot of room to shoot with a small goalie like me), shots from outside the defensive zone (dump-ins), or situations where the puck carrier is moving with puck (breakaways, walkouts from behind the net drives to the net from either side). Not to mention, my lateral movement has improved dramaticlly (since there's less space to move)so I can stop the shots requiring side to side movement, it's just that instead of using a butterfly, I'll use mostly half butterfly and sometimes the old fashioned skate save (for shots near the post that I have to stretch for), two pad stack or scrambling (depending on feel) to stop the shots. Now, I'm only 5'8", and there's a lot of room upstairs by playing deep, and I still see huge benefits (as long as you have a fast glove/blocker) of playing deep. The great thing is, I feel like they can't beat me high because I can play standup (which is the part that Lundqvist needs work on). It really does help to have so many kinds of styles at your disposal- each one comes in handy at exactly the right situation- just ask our rival from across the river. All in all, though, based on my experiences, I think Henrik and the goalie coach have (for the most part) the right idea.

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Old
04-04-2008, 11:04 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Challenging will help and hurt him at the same time. I think he's already tried the other way and it didn't work out that well
I think that if he can balance both out he would be that 7 mil/yr goalie we paid for.

If a goalie can time the challenges correctly while staying deep on the shots he needs to stay deep in I think it could work. Its all about doing whats necessary at the time.

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04-04-2008, 11:07 AM
  #36
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Growing up as a big Vanbiesbrouck fan and then (of course) a big Richter fan, I was very excited to have Lundqvist come over from Frölunda. I thought his style in Sweden looked very similar to Beezer and Richter in that he was very aggressive in challenging the shooters.

Now he's changed his style completely and stays way back in his net. I've come to love watching the economy of movement in his style. He rarely seems to have to move to make a save: he's already square to the shooter, so the puck will hit him. It's interesting, though, that in shootouts, he can be more aggressive and is particularly good at poke-checking (even though he's terrible at using his stick to handle the puck).

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04-04-2008, 11:14 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Here I agree, but its really hard to find the right mix. But working on that defenitly lies ahead of him.

What especially is hard is that it comes back and bites you right away that one time you wanders out of the net too much.

The best goalies in the league recently are the old standup goalies who had played their entire youth standing up and gooing out to challenge shooters -- and then adopted to the new style to play deep in the net and cut the angles. Like Brodeur, Khabby and Burke to name a few. Thoose guys are/where much better at finding that right mix, then say a Lethonen or even Lundqvist.
This is an interesting point, Ola. Kiprusoff also started off as a stand-up goalie and is still in his prime, but I find it hard to think of any other young stand-up goalies out there. It's becoming a lost art. With all young goalies being trained to butterfly, goalies who find that balance might be even rarer in the future.

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Old
04-04-2008, 11:17 AM
  #38
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Not sure if this was mentioned above, but his style when he first came to the NYR was much out in front then it is now. In fact, in December it seems like he really pulled back into the crease compared to November.

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04-04-2008, 11:20 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sousuffer View Post
I've been playing net for 15 years. I 5'8" and I don't play strict butterfly since it wasn't taught that way when I was younger, not to mention my knees will not and cannot bend that way. I tend to play mostly Brodeur's style, which is a hybrid of standup, a little butterfly (but mostly half butterfly) and a little of everything else like two pad stacks and scrambling. For about 11 years, I cut off the angle on everything (more like Richter) and although I showed a lot of improvement (I did play hockey in college), it wasn't until recently when I watched Lundqvist play that I really took off. My reflexes were always really quick, but now I play deep in the net on any slap shots from the point, deflections, and screens and it's really amazing how much rebound control that extra second to react gives you. It also cuts down the amount of side to side movement you need (obviously the arc of the circle to cut down the angle is longer when you come out farther) so I can get set/square quicker when I'm deeper and focus more on reacting to the shot (rather than making sure I'm in the right place). In addition, I play relatively deep on wrist shots from either side. The only time I cut off the angle will be wrist shots from the middle of the ice (otherwise there's a lot of room to shoot with a small goalie like me), shots from outside the defensive zone (dump-ins), or situations where the puck carrier is moving with puck (breakaways, walkouts from behind the net drives to the net from either side). Not to mention, my lateral movement has improved dramaticlly (since there's less space to move)so I can stop the shots requiring side to side movement, it's just that instead of using a butterfly, I'll use mostly half butterfly and sometimes the old fashioned skate save (for shots near the post that I have to stretch for), two pad stack or scrambling (depending on feel) to stop the shots. Now, I'm only 5'8", and there's a lot of room upstairs by playing deep, and I still see huge benefits (as long as you have a fast glove/blocker) of playing deep. The great thing is, I feel like they can't beat me high because I can play standup (which is the part that Lundqvist needs work on). It really does help to have so many kinds of styles at your disposal- each one comes in handy at exactly the right situation- just ask our rival from across the river. All in all, though, based on my experiences, I think Henrik and the goalie coach have (for the most part) the right idea.
Are you Dubielewicz??

J/K

Interesting to hear your point of view and how watching Lundqvist helped you.

When you have a goalie coach like Benoit Allare i think Lundqvist has the style he needs. This isnt some second rate goalie coach, he really knows what hes doing and what works for Lundqvist. He is a very good goalie and hes been successful using this method they've come up with together.

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Old
04-04-2008, 11:35 AM
  #40
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It's interesting, though, that in shootouts, he can be more aggressive and is particularly good at poke-checking (even though he's terrible at using his stick to handle the puck).
Yeah, in shootouts, no passes or second shots to worry about.

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04-04-2008, 11:36 AM
  #41
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hehe, I guess I am Dubielewicz (although I'd rather be Brodeur in terms of skill). YIKES! Anyway, I completely agree with Ola, the best goalies are the ones who know how to use ALL the tools that goalies can have. I (and apparently Chico Resch) feel like many of the NHL butterfly goalies who don't learn proper techniques such as skate saves, 2 pad slides, and how to stand up for high shots are working with a limited arsenal and are usually only good at taking up as much of the net as possible and hoping the shooters miss. If the NHL shrinks the shoulder pad limits and eliminates the unnecessary top part of the goalie's leg pads (the part that magically closes the 5-hole when the goalie is in the butterfly), many of these goalies will be unprepared to adjust and will need to relearn basic "old school" goaltending technique if they wish to keep playing at the highest level.

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04-04-2008, 12:26 PM
  #42
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I 5'8" and I don't play strict butterfly since it wasn't taught that way when I was younger, not to mention my knees will not and cannot bend that way.
I got a friend who is a 2nd/3rd tier goalie in Sweden, or was he have become a coach now.

He was always notorious for not "stretching", had a helluva attitude and allot of fighting spirit and lived on that, but didn't exactly take the best care of himself off the ice...

However when I last saw him he played the butterfly pretty well, something he natrually had problems with when I played with him due to not beeing flexible enough.

The big change was the new pads he had. First of all the pads goes diagonally over the legs, so if you go down in a butterfly your feets are almost on the ice while the knees are like 3-4 inches above the ice.

I think all goalies can play a butterfly with the right pads and some work these days. I am not suggesting that you should become a butterfly goalie, it sounds like you are more of a Theodore type, and its nothing wrong with that. But its good to be able to go down in a butterfly once in a while, especially when the puck is bouncing around within 10 feets from the net.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 View Post
This is an interesting point, Ola. Kiprusoff also started off as a stand-up goalie and is still in his prime, but I find it hard to think of any other young stand-up goalies out there. It's becoming a lost art. With all young goalies being trained to butterfly, goalies who find that balance might be even rarer in the future.
Yeah, he is a great example too, he moved around so much more when he played for AIK in the SEL then he does now -- and I am sure it was the same when he played in the SM-liiga.

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04-04-2008, 12:32 PM
  #43
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he just has to cut down the high shots that he lets in, i think he is 1 or 2 best goalie down low

coming out will help him cut those down

but confidence in his defenseman, will really make him better, i think he might be afriad that if he comes out that his d-man wont play there man well enough and they will get easy slam dunks

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04-04-2008, 12:36 PM
  #44
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Yeah I gotcha on that. I can play a butterfly with the new pads because they basically do all the work for you, but I like my standup/hybrid pads. They're a bit more simple (albeit not old though) and they let me be quick and do non-butterfly techniques (which some butterfly pads will not allow. Right now, on screens and deflections I do a lot of half butterfly and paddle down saves ala Brodeur. It seems to work well for me, although I feel like there are always parts of the game you can improve.

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04-04-2008, 04:20 PM
  #45
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he just has to cut down the high shots that he lets in, i think he is 1 or 2 best goalie down low

coming out will help him cut those down
I disagree, he plays the odds. It's harder to get a shot in upstairs, most shots are going to hit the bottom half of the net, especially with traffic in front. Staying low is actually a smart move. The trade off of course is that he's got space up top, but unless he can't see the puck, he's going to stop most of those. Also if he comes out he can't move post to post as well, there's likely to be room to go around him. I think his style makes sense, even though I used to like a standup style more.

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04-04-2008, 05:50 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by clemsonRanger View Post
he just has to cut down the high shots that he lets in, i think he is 1 or 2 best goalie down low

coming out will help him cut those down

but confidence in his defenseman, will really make him better, i think he might be afriad that if he comes out that his d-man wont play there man well enough and they will get easy slam dunks
If Lundqvist would trust his D-men to consistently do their part, his GAA would be consideratebly higher.

However, I'm pretty sure Lundqvist practices on when not to challenge the shooter and when to challenge. That's something that comes with experience. Remember, that desition is often to be taken within a second. With say 3 more years in NHL, Lundqvist will be helluva goalie, because then he will be able to do everything instinctively. Lundqvist at 30 will be an annoyance to alot of shooters.

Not to mention our young D-corps (and forward corps) will be 3 years wiser, knowing how to support their goalie better.

Dare I say Rangers will be a top defensive team in 5 years, if those we have are keepers?


Last edited by Chimp: 04-04-2008 at 05:57 PM.
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Old
04-04-2008, 09:34 PM
  #47
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Lundqvist had no help tonight. Rozy had a bunch of mistakes, and putting 5 forwards on that 5v3 is a no no. Especially with Shanny at the point. What is renney thinking!.. well actually its Perry who draws up the PP... on another note.. break up that Straka JAgr line... Get Avery back up there, or get Gomez up there and put Dubi down.

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Old
04-04-2008, 11:12 PM
  #48
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Anyone else notice how easy it is to beat Lundqvist low to the glove side, especially on one on ones? I think it's going to be a big problem when the playoffs start.

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04-04-2008, 11:15 PM
  #49
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Anyone else notice how easy it is to beat Lundqvist low to the glove side, especially on one on ones? I think it's going to be a big problem when the playoffs start.
How would that be a big problem?

The big problem would be why the hell our team is giving up breakaways, not that Lundqvist is getting beat glove side on a breakaway.

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04-04-2008, 11:25 PM
  #50
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How would that be a big problem?

The big problem would be why the hell our team is giving up breakaways, not that Lundqvist is getting beat glove side on a breakaway.

Because breakaways aren't the only time Lundqvist will face a one on one shot. I think he was beaten at least three times tonight low to the glove side. I think the Isles new it's a weak point and exploited it.

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