HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Fire Renney!!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-20-2008, 09:21 AM
  #101
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
this team has been a few pieces away the last two seasons as well. And frankly I think that team (06-07) was a helluva lot closer than this team. They were one second line center away from being a really really good team.


But we all know what happened in the aftermath. We got rid of our first line center and brought in two second line centers.
Nylander? The caps would trade him to us for Gomez or Drury any day of the week.

Bluenote13 is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:21 AM
  #102
clmetsfan
Registered User
 
clmetsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 3,833
vCash: 500
How many pure goal scorers does this team have? Two -- Zherdev and Naslund. One is still developing as a player, and one is on the downside of his career. Where is this all this untapped offensive potential that Renney is supposedly stifling?

clmetsfan is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:24 AM
  #103
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The credit he deserves is for creating a system that his players buy in to.
Really? B/c it seems like prucha doesn't really like his system. Lundy seems to be getting a little peterbed that this team cannot generate offense. Zherdev I'm pretty sure wasn't to happy that he gets benched for creating offense. Frtische, Korps, Dawes probably aren't the happiest w/ the musical chairs of whos in the lineup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
He deserves credit for injecting more youth into this lineup than we've seen in years.
Complete and utter BS. He didn't inject youth. Sather did. Fact is the ENTIRE NHL has injected youth. Wanna know why? Its called the Salary cap. YOung players don't make as much, so you need them to stay under the cap. 100% nothing to do w/ Renney. Sather puts together the team. And you wanna know what. Look at the last couple years. when the game was on the line, who did he bench and who played the most. The vets. complete crap that he injects youth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
He deserves credit for winning games when he does not have a dominant players.
So Jagr and Lundy isn't dominant. Am I missing some thing here. A top 5 player in the world at forward, and a top 5 goalie in the World. What is your definition of dominant? jagr should have been MVP in 06-06 and Lundy could be it this year.

and lets not be too fast to judge about this year. If this team starts tanking (i think it will b/c we just aren't that good as is) what will you say then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
He deserves credit for playing to this team's strength.
again no. This teams strength (besides goal), is speed and feistiness, and forechecking ability. All of which he stifles, by making them fall back in defensive positions, and ALWAYS taking the safe play. We have speed. We can't use it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
What offensive prowess are you referring to? Not one player on this team scored more than 26 goals last season. 6 players who have been used on the top nine spots (Dubinsky, Dawes, Voros, Callahan, Koropikoski and Fritsche) have combined for a total of 96 career goals.
Gomez, Drury, Naslund, Zherdev, and even dubinsky can score at any given time. Okay maybe not Gomez but he can set up a player at any given time. Zherdev flashes offensive brilliance but he can't b/c Renney will bench him if he makes a mistake. Again this ******** system Renney uses stifles, and punishes offensive creativity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Or built a team that works hard and knows that it can't count on outscoring its opponents every night. A team that knows it probably won't win a game if the first one to 4 wins. Oh, and I don't find winning boring.
Every team works hard. This is just silly. Also, if you don't outscore your opponents every night, you will lose every night. Actually this team looks lazy until they are losing, this year. We haven't played a full 60 min game yet. so I really don't think we are as hard a working team this year than in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You have no idea whether this is true or not. The fact he does not do it publicly, does not mean it doesn't happen.
It should be done in games. When Drury played like crap for the first month he still had tons of ice time. If prucha has a bad game he gets benched for 5. Same w/ dawes, korps, fritsche. hell Zherdev and Dubinksy got benched during games as well. But capt. clutch, Rosy, Redden etc keep playin and playin and playin. No F***in accountibility. Which leads to younger players playing more timid, and safe and not taking as many risks.

DontStepanMe is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:25 AM
  #104
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Nylander? The caps would trade him to us for Gomez or Drury any day of the week.
Nylander and Jagr together was probably the best center-RW pairing in the league.

DontStepanMe is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:26 AM
  #105
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishy View Post
Not going to wade into the Great Renney Debate, but Zherdev's 2-way game is on Hitch, not Renney. No way Renney gets credit for that one.
I'll certainly give Hitch some of the credit, but with the way Jacket fans have been raving about his play in NY compared to his play in Columbus, I can't say Renney was completely hand's off on this kid and his improvement.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:29 AM
  #106
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The 'blame Renney' argument isn't one that can be used only when it's convenient.

Either Renney was completely useless in getting us to the playoffs three years in a row, or he was at least partially responsible and deserves credit for doing so. If he had no part in getting us that far, then the credit goes solely to the players and the BLAME for not getting beyond the 2nd round lies solely with the players as well. You can't have it both ways.

People (including yourself) are so thrilled with the way Zherdev has been playing since he came to NY, raving about how his two-way game has improved, yet none of that can be attributed to Renney.

He's created the most boring hockey team ever? So this team is lacking offensive fire-power, yet he's supposed to engineer a way to turn the team into an exciting, high-scoring team? Yeah, I'm sure people are lining up to take that job.

What 'younging' has he ever 'smashed'? He's benched Zherdev once after playing a poor game and he's benched Dubinsky once after he took two awful penalties in the first 10 minutes of the game. So please, give me an example of this alleged 'smashing'.
Your favorite. Prucha. He completely destroyed the kid. Also what type of message is it that a vet can play like crap for extended periods of time w/o getting benched (Redden, Rosy, Drury) but if you play a bad period you will get benched ala Dubi, Zherdev. Horrible message to young players.

also, I don't remember me ever raving about Zherdev's two way play. In fact I can care less if he plays good defense. We need him to score, and create on offense. he is a dangler, and should be allowed to play that style. I can deal w/ his turnovers as long as he keeps making things happen in the offensive zone.

DontStepanMe is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:32 AM
  #107
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Nylander and Jagr together was probably the best center-RW pairing in the league.
In 1992 the Graves-Amonte-Messier line was amazing, who cares, this is 2008.

Your whole response to SBOB is delusional, sorry but thats just the way it is. You think Hank and the younger players are all pissed off and they're play has been stifled and altered by Renney's faulty system, a sytem that has a bottom line of WINNING. This is cuckoo bananas.

Bluenote13 is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:33 AM
  #108
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
They lost 4 of their top 8 scorers.

And, no, its not a more talented team.
this is the direction this team went and i happen to agree with the decisions but for jagr. i think we miss him more than we thought we would.

shany is a fossil. he needed to not be resigned. his production was iffy at best.

jagr was wanting too much cash. another good move. production wise, we miss him the most.

straka. old. offensively he struggled last year. another wise move.

avery. offensively, hes done little this year with dallas.

we added, zherdev, voros and naslund. other than jagr, ill take those 3 over the other 3 all day long. and i do think this team is more talented than last years team.

offdacrossbar is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:34 AM
  #109
ECL
Very slippery slope
 
ECL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Middle America
Country: United States
Posts: 78,281
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ECL
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
2) They have a good defense.
This I actually disagree with. Our mediocre defense is masked by Lundqvist. We play a good TEAM defense, but our defense itself has been shaky at best.

__________________
"Of course giving Sather cap space is like giving teenagers whiskey and car keys." - SBOB
"Watching Sather build a team is like watching a blind man with no fingers trying to put together an elaborate puzzle." - Shadowtron
"Used to be only Twinkies and cockroaches could survive a nuke. I'd add Habs to that. I'm convinced the CH stands for Club du Hypocrisy." - Gee Wally
ECL is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:39 AM
  #110
NYROrtsFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,983
vCash: 500
Renney's going nowhere... Regardless of what some people think. Not even worth discussing.

This is like hoping that Dolan will no longer own the team. Dolan is going nowhere, Sather is surely going nowhere, and because of that, Renney is going nowhere.

NYROrtsFan is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:42 AM
  #111
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Your favorite. Prucha. He completely destroyed the kid. Also what type of message is it that a vet can play like crap for extended periods of time w/o getting benched (Redden, Rosy, Drury) but if you play a bad period you will get benched ala Dubi, Zherdev. Horrible message to young players.
Redden and Rosy are both d-men. How does he bench them when we only have 6 on the roster?

Drury is the captain. How many captains in recent history have been benched when they were playing poorly? He needed to play through it and look at him now, he's leading our team in goals.

Prucha? He's played himself out of the lineup. Not to mention he was doomed when Shanahan was brought in and took his spot on the PP. As good as Prucha is/was on the PP, you can't say "Sorry Shanny, you're gonna have to sit this one out." That really should not be a point of blame for Renney.

Again, Dubi was benched because he made two dumb moves in the first 10 minutes of a game. Even Dubi admitted he deserved to be benched. Voros admitted he needed to be benched. Zherdev was trying to do too much and turned the puck over several times. If he needs a benching to learn that he needs to pick his spots, that's fine with me.

Quote:
also, I don't remember me ever raving about Zherdev's two way play. In fact I can care less if he plays good defense. We need him to score, and create on offense. he is a dangler, and should be allowed to play that style. I can deal w/ his turnovers as long as he keeps making things happen in the offensive zone.
Thought it was you, I apologize, but my point still stands for many.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:43 AM
  #112
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,331
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Really? B/c it seems like prucha doesn't really like his system. Lundy seems to be getting a little peterbed that this team cannot generate offense. Zherdev I'm pretty sure wasn't to happy that he gets benched for creating offense. Frtische, Korps, Dawes probably aren't the happiest w/ the musical chairs of whos in the lineup
I could care less is Prucha likes it. Other guys have found a way to contribute to this team without scoring goals.


Unless you can show me a quote where Lundqvist says he's perturbed by the lack of offense, that's just conjecture on your part.

What offense did Zherdev create that got him benched?

I think Fritsche, Korpikoski and Dawes are happy to be playing. They've worked hard every shift the last five games and they've stayed in the lineup. Not that hard. And now we're starting to see them create scoring chances.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Complete and utter BS. He didn't inject youth. Sather did. Fact is the ENTIRE NHL has injected youth. Wanna know why? Its called the Salary cap. YOung players don't make as much, so you need them to stay under the cap. 100% nothing to do w/ Renney. Sather puts together the team. And you wanna know what. Look at the last couple years. when the game was on the line, who did he bench and who played the most. The vets. complete crap that he injects youth.
Sather drafted the youth. Renney has put them in situations to succeed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
So Jagr and Lundy isn't dominant. Am I missing some thing here. A top 5 player in the world at forward, and a top 5 goalie in the World. What is your definition of dominant? jagr should have been MVP in 06-06 and Lundy could be it this year.

and lets not be too fast to judge about this year. If this team starts tanking (i think it will b/c we just aren't that good as is) what will you say then?
Um, Jagr isn't on this team.

Lundqvist is certainly dominant. He's the best player on this team. That's why you build your system around him.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
again no. This teams strength (besides goal), is speed and feistiness, and forechecking ability. All of which he stifles, by making them fall back in defensive positions, and ALWAYS taking the safe play. We have speed. We can't use it.
That's all part of playing a defensive system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Gomez, Drury, Naslund, Zherdev, and even dubinsky can score at any given time. Okay maybe not Gomez but he can set up a player at any given time. Zherdev flashes offensive brilliance but he can't b/c Renney will bench him if he makes a mistake. Again this ******** system Renney uses stifles, and punishes offensive creativity.
Gomez is not a goal scorer. Naslund is no longer a player who can score at will. Drury is not the kind of player who can take over a game. Zherdev has exceptional talent but this is a guy who has never scored 30 goals — so let's make him out to be something he's not. And Dubinsky has scored a grand total of 18 goals in the NHL, this is a guy who can score at any given time?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Every team works hard. This is just silly. Also, if you don't outscore your opponents every night, you will lose every night. Actually this team looks lazy until they are losing, this year. We haven't played a full 60 min game yet. so I really don't think we are as hard a working team this year than in the past.
Did you watch the Rangers play from 97-04? They did not play hard. And this team has played hard consistently moreso than they did the previous two seasons. For too many people if a team doesn't score, they're labeled as lazy.

And you know what I mean about outscoring your opponent. This team is not going to win games that are high-scoring.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
It should be done in games. When Drury played like crap for the first month he still had tons of ice time. If prucha has a bad game he gets benched for 5. Same w/ dawes, korps, fritsche. hell Zherdev and Dubinksy got benched during games as well. But capt. clutch, Rosy, Redden etc keep playin and playin and playin. No F***in accountibility. Which leads to younger players playing more timid, and safe and not taking as many risks.
Why should it be done in games? So you can vent vicariously through him?

You think that Drury played like crap. Obviously the coach who sees more than you or I do felt differently.

You still don't know what goes on behind close doors. And that's how it should be.

Again, what has Prucha done to prove he deserves to be in the lineup? And let's not go back down the "he scored 30 goals" thing.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:51 AM
  #113
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
This I actually disagree with. Our mediocre defense is masked by Lundqvist. We play a good TEAM defense, but our defense itself has been shaky at best.
so true. imagine this team with no lundqvist. hes the great equalizer back there. he still sees alot of close in shots and a ton of odd man rushes including breakaways. hes been nothing short of stellar and without him this team defense would suk horse.

the fact that hes so good does not mean were that strong defensively and to make it worse, we score 2 goals a game so hank has no margin for error.

we have 2 choices, hank wins the game for us by allowing 1 maybe 2 goals or we lose.

offdacrossbar is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:54 AM
  #114
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Redden and Rosy are both d-men. How does he bench them when we only have 6 on the roster?
i know he can't "bench" them, but he can make a statement and completely remove them from the PP. Why not that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Drury is the captain. How many captains in recent history have been benched when they were playing poorly? He needed to play through it and look at him now, he's leading our team in goals.
Captainship should make no difference in my book. he is still a player and needs to be held responsible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Prucha? He's played himself out of the lineup. Not to mention he was doomed when Shanahan was brought in and took his spot on the PP. As good as Prucha is/was on the PP, you can't say "Sorry Shanny, you're gonna have to sit this one out." That really should not be a point of blame for Renney.
Well if Prucha gets traded, we'll see how he plays. Personally I never thought prucha was great, but i believe that Renney completely killed whatever confidence he had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Again, Dubi was benched because he made two dumb moves in the first 10 minutes of a game. Even Dubi admitted he deserved to be benched. Voros admitted he needed to be benched. Zherdev was trying to do too much and turned the puck over several times. If he needs a benching to learn that he needs to pick his spots, that's fine with me..
Do you really think that they are going to call out there coach? Of course they say they deserved it. but again why couldn't they just play through there mistakes, I mean if drury can y not them. And w/ Dubi and zherdev we need them to play. Regardless of mistakes. We have no offense and than he takes out some of our best offensive weapons.

DontStepanMe is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 09:55 AM
  #115
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,331
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
so true. imagine this team with no lundqvist. hes the great equalizer back there. he still sees alot of close in shots and a ton of odd man rushes including breakaways. hes been nothing short of stellar and without him this team defense would suk horse.

the fact that hes so good does not mean were that strong defensively and to make it worse, we score 2 goals a game so hank has no margin for error.

we have 2 choices, hank wins the game for us by allowing 1 maybe 2 goals or we lose.
Why do we have to imagine the team without Lundqvist? He's a part of the team.

Let's deal with what is.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 10:05 AM
  #116
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Sather drafted the youth. Renney has put them in situations to succeed.
Renney as no choice but to play them. Renney can only play players, that Sather puts on the roster. I think there are other coaches in the league that could and would have gotten more out of our youth than Renney. Ruff, Quenville, Nolan just to name a few. There are more.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Um, Jagr isn't on this team.

Lundqvist is certainly dominant. He's the best player on this team. That's why you build your system around him.
I know Jagr isnt here. I was talking about the entire tenure of renney.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's all part of playing a defensive system.
not his type of defensive system. We fall back and wait in the neutral zone, or our blueline. I'm talking about having 2 forcheckers, and constant attacking. Like Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Washington, hell even the Islanders. Not this Devil bs hockey that isn't suited for this club b/c we dont have dominant defensemen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Gomez is not a goal scorer. Naslund is no longer a player who can score at will. Drury is not the kind of player who can take over a game. Zherdev has exceptional talent but this is a guy who has never scored 30 goals — so let's make him out to be something he's not. And Dubinsky has scored a grand total of 18 goals in the NHL, this is a guy who can score at any given time?
naslund still has a great wrist shot, and can pot alot of goals. Drury can still score, and has been (bout friggin time). Zherdev has talent and can create chances, but I still believe renney won't let him. Dubi showed flashes at the beginning of the season, of dominating teams. he just has to get back on track.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Did you watch the Rangers play from 97-04? They did not play hard. And this team has played hard consistently moreso than they did the previous two seasons. For too many people if a team doesn't score, they're labeled as lazy.
This team hasn't shown up in the first period for like the last 8 games. In fact they haven't shown up really until the other team gets a lead. How is that hard working. Now once they are losing, or fall behind they are a very very very hardworking team, as evidenced last night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
And you know what I mean about outscoring your opponent. This team is not going to win games that are high-scoring.
I know. Just busting your chops.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Why should it be done in games? So you can vent vicariously through him?

You think that Drury played like crap. Obviously the coach who sees more than you or I do felt differently.

You still don't know what goes on behind close doors. And that's how it should be.

Again, what has Prucha done to prove he deserves to be in the lineup? And let's not go back down the "he scored 30 goals" thing.
Why should it only happen to young players in games? Answer me that. why pick on Zherdev, or Dubi but ignore Drury's bad play. If you do it to one, you do it to all.

about Prucha. He forechecked good, and wasn't horrible defensively. I think he outplayed Dawes. I'm still wondering what Dawes has done to keep staying in the lineup. I'm not a Prucha supporter by any means, and still want him off the team, but the way he was thrown around wasn't right. and that was DIRECTLY renney.


Last edited by DontStepanMe: 11-20-2008 at 10:11 AM.
DontStepanMe is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 10:15 AM
  #117
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Why do we have to imagine the team without Lundqvist? He's a part of the team.

Let's deal with what is.
true... but he does have those streaks. It also doesn't change that he masks our defensive deficiencies.

DontStepanMe is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 10:16 AM
  #118
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
i know he can't "bench" them, but he can make a statement and completely remove them from the PP. Why not that?
Because there's still only 6 d-men on the bench. When you spend a lot of time on the PK or PP, those defensemen are going to get tired. Two d-men are out there in every situation, while in many cases only two, or even one forward is on the ice. Couple that with the fact that there are 12 forwards in total and it's hard to just say "Ok Staal, Rosy is benched and you're getting an extra 6 minutes of ice-time this period."

Quote:
Captainship should make no difference in my book. he is still a player and needs to be held responsible.
But it does in the eyes of most coaches. Benching your captain sends a very grim message to your team, I don't think 5 games into the season is the right time to do something like that. Especially when we were winning.

Quote:
Well if Prucha gets traded, we'll see how he plays. Personally I never thought prucha was great, but i believe that Renney completely killed whatever confidence he had.
That remains to be seen, but I don't think he'll be traded until he actually does something worthwhile on the ice. I still would have liked to see him on a line with Dubi and Zherdev because he can at least keep up with them and can (or used to be able to) shoot off the one timer. I guess I see the game a certain way that differs from some people, but I try to evaluate players tendencies and build lines upon that.

Quote:
Do you really think that they are going to call out there coach? Of course they say they deserved it. but again why couldn't they just play through there mistakes, I mean if drury can y not them. And w/ Dubi and zherdev we need them to play. Regardless of mistakes. We have no offense and than he takes out some of our best offensive weapons.
No, but is it so hard to assume that they might actually just be agreeing with the coach? Dubi and Voros are hard-working guys with good character. They know when they're playing badly and I think they're man-enough to admit it.

They might be our best offensive weapons, but if they aren't contributing offensively, or contributing in a negative way, then they really are no longer a weapon, they're a liability.

Certain players can guide themselves though problems, but others need a different approach and need to be guided by others. Generally the difference between the two is age and experience. I think in a couple years Dubi and Z will both be extremely good players, but right now they're just starting to grow into it.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 10:24 AM
  #119
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,677
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't understand why people are upset about last night. The fact that there was finally a game that gave a reason to bump this thread must thrill people.
ive been upset with the way this team has played for 3 years now. weve had a team actually show up and play hard for 1 out of every 3 games, usually in the final 2 months of the season. this team hasnt playing 60 minutes of hockey in more than 3 games this season. This team cant score on teh power play, and in fact has given up the most SHG on the season, this team has NEVER been able to score goals unless it was 1 man doing all the work, named Jaromir Jagr.

This team, is always going to be the same, make the playoffs, out in either the 1st or 2nd round. we will beat up on the teams about as good or worse than us, and then lose to the better offensive teams.

Inferno is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 10:28 AM
  #120
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Because there's still only 6 d-men on the bench. When you spend a lot of time on the PK or PP, those defensemen are going to get tired. Two d-men are out there in every situation, while in many cases only two, or even one forward is on the ice. Couple that with the fact that there are 12 forwards in total and it's hard to just say "Ok Staal, Rosy is benched and you're getting an extra 6 minutes of ice-time this period."
Staal doesn't see any PP time so I don't think that it would be a big deal if Staal took his PP time for a period, just to show Rosy or Redden a message. it would'nt be an extra 6 min or ice time in a period. More like 1 maybe 2. Hell, you can give Kalinen more time on the PP as well. There are ways to do it. Or put a forward on the point instead of 2 dmen. There's another way of benching a dman on the PP. there are ways.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
But it does in the eyes of most coaches. Benching your captain sends a very grim message to your team, I don't think 5 games into the season is the right time to do something like that. Especially when we were winning.
ok. I see your point. but I still don't like the fact the vets get away while playing crappy, and young players pay for their mistakes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
That remains to be seen, but I don't think he'll be traded until he actually does something worthwhile on the ice. I still would have liked to see him on a line with Dubi and Zherdev because he can at least keep up with them and can (or used to be able to) shoot off the one timer. I guess I see the game a certain way that differs from some people, but I try to evaluate players tendencies and build lines upon that..
agree w/ you here. wouldn't mind to see him w/ Dubs or Zherdev.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
No, but is it so hard to assume that they might actually just be agreeing with the coach? Dubi and Voros are hard-working guys with good character. They know when they're playing badly and I think they're man-enough to admit it.

They might be our best offensive weapons, but if they aren't contributing offensively, or contributing in a negative way, then they really are no longer a weapon, they're a liability.

Certain players can guide themselves though problems, but others need a different approach and need to be guided by others. Generally the difference between the two is age and experience. I think in a couple years Dubi and Z will both be extremely good players, but right now they're just starting to grow into it.
Ok, I see your point here, and they could be agreeing w/ the coach. I don't think that Zherdev was agreeing w/ him though. But what my point is is why do only the young players pay for mistakes? Why not the Vets? Why d9n't they get the opportunity to play throught their mistakes? that is what bothers me.

DontStepanMe is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 10:30 AM
  #121
squishy
Registered User
 
squishy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Because there's still only 6 d-men on the bench.
That in itself is a big part of the problem. No competition on defense, no options for the coach when someone's struggling.

Most would blame that on Sather, but this quote makes me think otherwise:

Quote:
Meanwhile, either the decision is out of Tom Renney’s hands or he hasn’t given it much thought, but when I asked the coach about calling up a player from Hartford so that he could occasionally sit down a struggling defenseman—pick one of several—the coach said he didn’t have the latitude right now to do so.

“The bottom line is we have to look at where we are with our roster in general,” Renney said. “I still have some forward decisions to make. You’d sure like the depth to get guys attention, but we don’t have that luxury.”
That tells me the ball is in Renney's court to make up his mind on his spare forwards so that one of them can be dumped/traded/demoted to make salary cap room/roster space for a defenseman, be it someone from Hartford or someone from outside. It's time for him to make up his mind. Yes, the forward depth could prove to be a nice luxury, but the fact of the matter is we have probably 4-5 forwards in Hartford who could fill in part time and not embarrass themselves or hurt the team if injuries were to arise. That can't be said on defense, and that's a major problem.

squishy is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 10:31 AM
  #122
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
ive been upset with the way this team has played for 3 years now. weve had a team actually show up and play hard for 1 out of every 3 games, usually in the final 2 months of the season. this team hasnt playing 60 minutes of hockey in more than 3 games this season. This team cant score on teh power play, and in fact has given up the most SHG on the season, this team has NEVER been able to score goals unless it was 1 man doing all the work, named Jaromir Jagr.

This team, is always going to be the same, make the playoffs, out in either the 1st or 2nd round. we will beat up on the teams about as good or worse than us, and then lose to the better offensive teams.
I feel sorry for you then...I really do.

What were you doing from 97-04? Suicide attempts maybe?

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 10:38 AM
  #123
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Staal doesn't see any PP time so I don't think that it would be a big deal if Staal took his PP time for a period, just to show Rosy or Redden a message. it would'nt be an extra 6 min or ice time in a period. More like 1 maybe 2. Hell, you can give Kalinen more time on the PP as well. There are ways to do it. Or put a forward on the point instead of 2 dmen. There's another way of benching a dman on the PP. there are ways.
I'm all for getting Rozsival off the PP. Redden hasn't been terrible on it, aside from last night, so I'm willing to let him slide. However, like Sam said in his blog, what forward are you going to put at the point?

Quote:
ok. I see your point. but I still don't like the fact the vets get away while playing crappy, and young players pay for their mistakes.

Ok, I see your point here, and they could be agreeing w/ the coach. I don't think that Zherdev was agreeing w/ him though. But what my point is is why do only the young players pay for mistakes? Why not the Vets? Why d9n't they get the opportunity to play throught their mistakes? that is what bothers me.
Young players pay for their mistakes because they need to see that they're mistakes. Vets are called 'vets' because they can acknowledge that on their own. That's the theory at least, but it's not always true.

Zherdev clearly doesn't like to be benched, but at the same time maybe it wasn't a benching to say "You're playing badly." Maybe he was sat down to say "You're trying too hard, you can't do it all yourself."

Trxjw is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 10:39 AM
  #124
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,677
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The credit he deserves is for creating a system that his players buy in to. He deserves credit for injecting more youth into this lineup than we've seen in years. He deserves credit for winning games when he does not have a dominant players. He deserves credit for playing to this team's strength.
The insertion of youth in this team has nothing to do with Renney, it has everything to do with the salary cap situation imho. when you have vets getting paid the kind of cash they are, the only way you can fill out a roster is with younger cheaper players.


Quote:
What offensive prowess are you referring to? Not one player on this team scored more than 26 goals last season. 6 players who have been used on the top nine spots (Dubinsky, Dawes, Voros, Callahan, Koropikoski and Fritsche) have combined for a total of 96 career goals.
but they have at least 5 players on the roster who have proven they can score 25+ in the NHL, Gomez, Drury, Naslund, Zherdev and Prucha. I dont think its a stretch to say Dubinsky and Voros should be in there as well. 2 years ago the Nashville Predators didnt have a single player score more than 27 goals, and were 5th in the NHL in offense.

Quote:
Or built a team that works hard and knows that it can't count on outscoring its opponents every night. A team that knows it probably won't win a game if the first one to 4 wins. Oh, and I don't find winning boring.
hard work shouldnt be listed as a compliment, it should be listed as an expectation. the decade of despair has lowered the standards around here, i for one EXPECT hard work.

Inferno is offline  
Old
11-20-2008, 10:41 AM
  #125
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishy View Post
That in itself is a big part of the problem. No competition on defense, no options for the coach when someone's struggling.

Most would blame that on Sather, but this quote makes me think otherwise:

That tells me the ball is in Renney's court to make up his mind on his spare forwards so that one of them can be dumped/traded/demoted to make salary cap room/roster space for a defenseman, be it someone from Hartford or someone from outside. It's time for him to make up his mind. Yes, the forward depth could prove to be a nice luxury, but the fact of the matter is we have probably 4-5 forwards in Hartford who could fill in part time and not embarrass themselves or hurt the team if injuries were to arise. That can't be said on defense, and that's a major problem.
Absolutely agree. I'm certainly curious as to why Renney hasn't made a move to free up some roster space by now. My only guess is that the guy to go is Prucha, but Sather is pushing back saying he wants to get more value out of him before he commits.

Any idea of who could step up from Hartford to be the 7th d-man? I assume the likely candidate would be Potter, assuming we didn't trade Prucha or another forward for a 7th d-man.

Trxjw is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.