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Old
04-06-2008, 10:05 AM
  #26
FinallyWeissIsGone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
What Clint pointed out not long ago has I guess gotten to me. Brutal honesty is fine, most of us are brutally hinest, to be a chronic negative nancy and have a complete inability is another. Jerk Martin is childish, sorry.

A new coach is fine, but it's foolish imo to get a total overhaul again. It hasn't worked, noone's patient with anyone's plan of change, and we're not going to all of a sudden get better. A decade at revolving door has produced nothing at all whatsoever, so let's keep it going.

Anyone ever thought that the players' laziness out there is a result of the constant movement? Who are the usual suspects? The guys who've managed to stay here through most of this. Far as I'm concerned, when it comes to accountability, it at this point starts with the players. Those guys have to look at themselves in thr mirror everyday. Coach after coach, GM after GM, all the same problems remain. Noone wants to address that.
Maybe, Jokinen needs to go? He is the only remaining Panther from the Luongo trade, which ever since, we have not made the playoffs...

Maybe Jokinen is a cursed piece?

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04-06-2008, 10:06 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther
Right on and now add Yormark to my list of those who need to be axed. Need to change the atmosphere of the entire Organization, though unfortunately you can't fire the Owner, and find a group of people, President, General Manager, Head Coach, Scouting Director and Assistent Coaches who will add to and tweak but not totally dismantle the roster. Make the present core smaller, Jokinen, Horton, Booth and Bouwmeester and strive to add to it and compliment it. Not necessarily trade or not re-sign everyone else, especially Vokoun, Weiss, Olesz, etc, but make it known those players are available for the right price.
Yep, and after all those horrendous moves, we'll suddenly be in the playoffs next season and be contending for the Cup!

Get rid of Weiss? Guess you missed the pathetic stretch we had without this guy?
Vokoun-your rationale has been proven wrong. 2 Cups (and even those are debatable as to their status) have been won by teams with non-elite goalies.
Olesz--why? Are you serious?

Thanks for continuing to disprove yourself and your suggestions.

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04-06-2008, 10:32 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by 39ontheline View Post
Why? Because the panthers shut up the naysayers with another playoff birth........ 7 years and counting right and 3 for Jerk Martin
Keep looking at the surface outlook, that's why we've gone a decade without the playoffs. Look deeper, and then you'll see the positives Martin had made since being GM. we need a new coach, we'll be going in the wrong direction by firing him altogether.

You think we'll make the playoffs next year by canning Martin? Is that honestly what you think? That's the magic answer? Which hasn't happened in a decade of GM and coach rollover? So it's suddenly going to work now? What do you honestly expect? ALL WE NEED IS TO GET RID OF MARTIN! Then what? Everyone's going to start playing well together?

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04-06-2008, 10:46 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Keep looking at the surface outlook, that's why we've gone a decade without the playoffs. Look deeper, and then you'll see the positives Martin had made since being GM. we need a new coach, we'll be going in the wrong direction by firing him altogether.

You think we'll make the playoffs next year by canning Martin? Is that honestly what you think? That's the magic answer? Which hasn't happened in a decade of GM and coach rollover? So it's suddenly going to work now? What do you honestly expect? ALL WE NEED IS TO GET RID OF MARTIN! Then what? Everyone's going to start playing well together?
No I think Martin is part of the culture of apathy down here. I dont think the team cares. And you're assuming I dont understand whats going on here. I get it, I get what he's doing and you know what, I dont like it. There is NO IMPROVEMENT. Another stagnant year in the point total, more shots faced and oh yeah NO PLAYOFFS again. People that are trying to magically "dig deeper" are ignoring the cold hard truth that this team is no where near being fixed and is no better off than where they were before Martin. They just reshuffled the deck but the result is the same. Get Martin out of here in both capacities. He's obviously a bad coach who cant get the most out of his players and as a GM, like I said, he's done nothing substantial. I dont see Jay's name on a dotted line anywhere......

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04-06-2008, 11:00 AM
  #30
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"They don't have enough core players who hate to lose. When your core group does not have a disdain for losing, they will not overachieve at crunch time. Most teams that are written off have a really nice run. Once the fear of failure is gone, it's easy to play.''
That quote pretty much sums up this team over the last 3 or 4 years. The talent is there, but the drive for winning isnt. Horton, Weiss and Bouw have been here for 4 years and are use to losing, Olli is use to it. Sure they don't want to lose, but they're so use to it already.

We need to make a big signing. Just splurge and sign a big free agent. I mean come on, Philly went ONE ****ING SEASON without the playoffs, fire everyone and do a complete roster overhaul, and now they're in the playoffs. You sign a guy like Hossa and there's less pressure off Olli, you sign a guy like Campbell and there's less pressure off Bouw. Just open up your wallet and pay someone out the wazzoo to come play for us. This "sign core players" **** isn't working for us anymore.

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04-06-2008, 11:01 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by 39ontheline View Post
No I think Martin is part of the culture of apathy down here. I dont think the team cares. And you're assuming I dont understand whats going on here. I get it, I get what he's doing and you know what, I dont like it. There is NO IMPROVEMENT. Another stagnant year in the point total, more shots faced and oh yeah NO PLAYOFFS again. People that are trying to magically "dig deeper" are ignoring the cold hard truth that this team is no where near being fixed and is no better off than where they were before Martin. They just reshuffled the deck but the result is the same. Get Martin out of here in both capacities. He's obviously a bad coach who cant get the most out of his players and as a GM, like I said, he's done nothing substantial. I dont see Jay's name on a dotted line anywhere......
You keep talking about Bouw not being signed, but he wasn't able to be talked to until January and Bouw and his camp have said they don't want to talk until the season's over. How's that Martin's fault.

Younger guys signed longterm, when's the last time that happened? Straightening out the minor league teams, again, last time that happened? Cleaned up Keenan's mess. Young talent is being kept where they belong so their growth isn't stunted, when's the last time that happened?

Again, what do you seriously think will happen if Martin's gone? We're suddenly going to be a playoff team next year and everyone will start playing better? Only way that happens is if Martin is gone tommorrow and Martin interviews someone whose not a big name, but someone with a plan and is given the opportunity to actually institute that plan.

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04-06-2008, 11:05 AM
  #32
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There is no way anyone on here has a good argument for trading Weiss. The guy is our best two-way forward and possibly future captain. He basically makes that second line whether you like it or not. They tried Jokinen there and they tried Kreps there, no comparison whatsoever. That "2nd" line is our future 1st line, if not already, but the problem right now is whether or not the organization is going to create a legitimate first line with or without Jokinen (frankly, I don't care) or are they going to depend on the Sunrise Express or whatever they are called to be the top guns next season. IMO, I don't think this line is able to carry this team offensively just yet. Definitely one day they will, but not yet. We need to trade Jokinen for some serious talent and sign a FA like Rolston or Langkow or whoever to make a 1st line with some experience and goal scoring ability.

All I know is that the organization better get off their butts this summer and do something about this mess that is the Florida Panthers. Jokinen or Martin has to go, even if its Martin in ONE of his roles. Some sort of change needs to be done. If Stumpel is back next year, he better not be any higher than the 4th line. The guy is slow, his stickhandling and his passing abilities are declining rapidly. Kreps is a solid 3rd line center with possibly Olesz and Mclean. As far as I'm concerned, those are the only two lines that should be in the line-up for next season as of right now. That leaves alot open for some signings and trades. The good thing is that the defense and goaltending is finally stable going into the offseason for the first time in I don't know how long (with the exception of JayBo contract). If Martin stays, maybe he can finally concentrate on improving the offense...more specifically the first line. I would like to keep guys like Dvorak, Peltonen, Belak, Campbell for a 4th line but where does it end??? Some of these guys have to go

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04-06-2008, 11:32 AM
  #33
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My gut feeling is that most of this organization's troubles should be placed squarely on the shoulders of the scouting staff. When I look at what other teams have managed to draft through their rebuilding years it makes me sick. There's always going to be players who bust, sure, but when you look at our failure to produce anything beyond a 4th liner after the first round you have to start pointing fingers at the people making the decisions.

When you've been as bad as we have, for as long as we have, a prospect ranking like this is absolutely criminal.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/nhl_org...ings/?start=24

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04-06-2008, 11:41 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 39ontheline View Post
No I think Martin is part of the culture of apathy down here. I dont think the team cares. And you're assuming I dont understand whats going on here. I get it, I get what he's doing and you know what, I dont like it. There is NO IMPROVEMENT. Another stagnant year in the point total, more shots faced and oh yeah NO PLAYOFFS again. People that are trying to magically "dig deeper" are ignoring the cold hard truth that this team is no where near being fixed and is no better off than where they were before Martin. They just reshuffled the deck but the result is the same. Get Martin out of here in both capacities. He's obviously a bad coach who cant get the most out of his players and as a GM, like I said, he's done nothing substantial. I dont see Jay's name on a dotted line anywhere......
martin is part of the culture of apathy here??? the guy's flown all over the place to scout players before, during and after the season, has taken on the role of both GM *and* coach apparently at cohen's behest, continues to do and say the right things wrt the future of the organization.

and i'm sorry but if "no improvement" is all you have to offer than you most certainly *don't get it* - the FA signings last summer were an attempt to paper over some of the holes in the roster, offer incremental improvement (enough to make the playoffs) and provide a bridge to a future that included more natural scoring talent being developed inside the organization. this was a stated plan by JM. this season's roster was not an end in and of itself, as you and others on your side of this debate continue to assert. if you don't understand that, then you don't get the bigger picture and pretty much everything else in that argument is rendered moot, imo.

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04-06-2008, 11:50 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 39ontheline View Post
No I think Martin is part of the culture of apathy down here. I dont think the team cares. And you're assuming I dont understand whats going on here. I get it, I get what he's doing and you know what, I dont like it. There is NO IMPROVEMENT. Another stagnant year in the point total, more shots faced and oh yeah NO PLAYOFFS again. People that are trying to magically "dig deeper" are ignoring the cold hard truth that this team is no where near being fixed and is no better off than where they were before Martin. They just reshuffled the deck but the result is the same. Get Martin out of here in both capacities. He's obviously a bad ~coach who cant get the most out of his players and as a GM, like I said, he's done nothing substantial. I dont see Jay's name on a dotted line anywhere......
I think you are pretty off as far as him being GM. While he hasnt added that top line scorer, which concerns me, he has done a lot more positive for this organization throughout than most others have. I will agree with you on the point that he doesnt get the most out of his players. However, when this team played his style, and when they were fully healthy, they won seven in a row and were very competitive. That has to say something. But I do think its time for him to give up the coaching duties.

And BTW...Bouwmeester has nothing to do with any of these arguments, especially since he couldnt sign till January and he, and his agent, wanted to wait till the summer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
You keep talking about Bouw not being signed, but he wasn't able to be talked to until January and Bouw and his camp have said they don't want to talk until the season's over. How's that Martin's fault.

Younger guys signed longterm, when's the last time that happened? Straightening out the minor league teams, again, last time that happened? Cleaned up Keenan's mess. Young talent is being kept where they belong so their growth isn't stunted, when's the last time that happened?

Again, what do you seriously think will happen if Martin's gone? We're suddenly going to be a playoff team next year and everyone will start playing better? Only way that happens is if Martin is gone tommorrow and Martin interviews someone whose not a big name, but someone with a plan and is given the opportunity to actually institute that plan.
+1

Totally agree with what you said about Martin. I would of liked to see him sign a top line free agent, rather than several third liners. But he did do a good job locking up our youth, which we never had happen before. BTW... he turned the WORST trade in hockey history from nothing into something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montsy14 View Post
There is no way anyone on here has a good argument for trading Weiss. The guy is our best two-way forward and possibly future captain. He basically makes that second line whether you like it or not. They tried Jokinen there and they tried Kreps there, no comparison whatsoever. That "2nd" line is our future 1st line, if not already, but the problem right now is whether or not the organization is going to create a legitimate first line with or without Jokinen (frankly, I don't care) or are they going to depend on the Sunrise Express or whatever they are called to be the top guns next season. IMO, I don't think this line is able to carry this team offensively just yet. Definitely one day they will, but not yet. We need to trade Jokinen for some serious talent and sign a FA like Rolston or Langkow or whoever to make a 1st line with some experience and goal scoring ability.

All I know is that the organization better get off their butts this summer and do something about this mess that is the Florida Panthers. Jokinen or Martin has to go, even if its Martin in ONE of his roles. Some sort of change needs to be done. If Stumpel is back next year, he better not be any higher than the 4th line. The guy is slow, his stickhandling and his passing abilities are declining rapidly. Kreps is a solid 3rd line center with possibly Olesz and Mclean. As far as I'm concerned, those are the only two lines that should be in the line-up for next season as of right now. That leaves alot open for some signings and trades. The good thing is that the defense and goaltending is finally stable going into the offseason for the first time in I don't know how long (with the exception of JayBo contract). If Martin stays, maybe he can finally concentrate on improving the offense...more specifically the first line. I would like to keep guys like Dvorak, Peltonen, Belak, Campbell for a 4th line but where does it end??? Some of these guys have to go
Weiss is the glue that keeps the pieces together. You saw the difference the team played when he was injured, and when he was healthy. He is a vital part of this team, and if anyone wants to argue against that or his long term deal.

This team doesnt need a lot of tweaking (sorry GP & 39).
~I would like to see them make a move for a new head coach. Ive brought up before bring in some new blood, like Randy Cunneyworth.

~Id like to see them finally go out on the market and sign an impact player, whether it be a UFA or RFA. There are a lot of players available that would give us two formidable top lines; Hossa, Prospal, Rolston, Carter, Perry, to name a few. Yes Rolston would be great for our top line, and to wear the C. Carter and Perry could be had for the right price, being that both of their teams are going to be near the cap already.

~If there were a house cleaning, Id like it to be in the medical/training department. I understand that some injuries on the ice arent preventable by training, but there has to be something going on with us being near the top of the man games lost list the past few seasons. Maybe a new way of thinking/training would be a blessing for this team.

If the team can go out there and get a Rolston/Prospal, and a quality Dman, we would be in a great situation. But the most important thing is getting this team mentally and physically ready to go from game one, not game 70. So yes, a new coach is also a must as well.

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04-06-2008, 11:52 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaebriel View Post
My gut feeling is that most of this organization's troubles should be placed squarely on the shoulders of the scouting staff. When I look at what other teams have managed to draft through their rebuilding years it makes me sick. There's always going to be players who bust, sure, but when you look at our failure to produce anything beyond a 4th liner after the first round you have to start pointing fingers at the people making the decisions.

When you've been as bad as we have, for as long as we have, a prospect ranking like this is absolutely criminal.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/nhl_org...ings/?start=24
And look at the teams beneath us. Multiple Stanley Cups, and two of the better GMs in the league. But who wouldnt want to follow the Devils, Hurricanes, or Stars blueprint?

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04-06-2008, 11:56 AM
  #37
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Look at stats this season, and tell me Weiss and Olesz need to be made available. Both were '+' players and both put up a decent number of points. Weiss, indeed, seems to be the keystone of the success of the second line, as it faltered without him and at the end of the season where he was playing hurt.

Jokinen, by comparison, has been nearly invisible for nearly 3 months. Leads the team in scoring, but wouldn't have if he'd played the whole season like he played the second half of it, and had a team-worst +/-. You're rewarding his loyalty, I know - but what about Weiss, who signed a long-term deal? What about Olesz who has filled every role the team has given him without complaining, even a demotion to the minors at one point last year.

Vokoun - well - I'm all for an upgrade, but that could prove hard to find, and certainly he's stolen a few games for the team but has also helped blow a few.

But, seriously - the core of this team has to include at this point Bouwmeester, Jokinen (though he's borderline right now), Booth, Weiss, Horton, Kreps, Allen, and Olesz, as the regular players who actually showed a good effort this season and had decent results for it (except Jokinen, he's given a pass on this season). You make that the core of a team to build around - and keep Cullimore and Belak right now for being excellent in their roles. You use that as the core to build around to get to the playoffs. Once you make the playoffs a couple times, if you're not getting to the finals, that's when you review your core and make adjustments.
You should limit the amount of core players you have. In my book, Core Player=Untouchable in trade. Every team should strive to have some valuable assets to market in trade to fill needs. Doesn't mean you have to or even prefer trading them but they're there to barter if you need to. The problem I have with your analysis is not the quality of core player but the quanity of them.

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04-06-2008, 12:10 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
You should limit the amount of core players you have. In my book, Core Player=Untouchable in trade. Every team should strive to have some valuable assets to market in trade to fill needs. Doesn't mean you have to or even prefer trading them but they're there to barter if you need to. The problem I have with your analysis is not the quality of core player but the quanity of them.
My core is Bouw, Weiss, Booth, Horton, maybe Olesz, Frolik, and Matthias. If everyone else can improve that core, so be it.

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04-06-2008, 12:33 PM
  #39
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Weiss is the glue that keeps the pieces together. You saw the difference the team played when he was injured, and when he was healthy. He is a vital part of this team, and if anyone wants to argue against that or his long term deal.

This team doesnt need a lot of tweaking (sorry GP & 39).
~I would like to see them make a move for a new head coach. Ive brought up before bring in some new blood, like Randy Cunneyworth.

~Id like to see them finally go out on the market and sign an impact player, whether it be a UFA or RFA. There are a lot of players available that would give us two formidable top lines; Hossa, Prospal, Rolston, Carter, Perry, to name a few. Yes Rolston would be great for our top line, and to wear the C. Carter and Perry could be had for the right price, being that both of their teams are going to be near the cap already.

~If there were a house cleaning, Id like it to be in the medical/training department. I understand that some injuries on the ice arent preventable by training, but there has to be something going on with us being near the top of the man games lost list the past few seasons. Maybe a new way of thinking/training would be a blessing for this team.

If the team can go out there and get a Rolston/Prospal, and a quality Dman, we would be in a great situation. But the most important thing is getting this team mentally and physically ready to go from game one, not game 70. So yes, a new coach is also a must as well.
I agree with most everything else, but I don't think we should be going after any RFA's like Carter or Perry, and have to give up yet another first round pick or multiple first rounders, not to mention the other picks. Especially with the super 2009 draft coming up. IMO guys like Carter and Perry are not worth all the picks we'd be giving up. We should be looking at trades or UFA to bring in major pieces.

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04-06-2008, 12:53 PM
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I agree with most everything else, but I don't think we should be going after any RFA's like Carter or Perry, and have to give up yet another first round pick or multiple first rounders, not to mention the other picks. Especially with the super 2009 draft coming up. IMO guys like Carter and Perry are not worth all the picks we'd be giving up. We should be looking at trades or UFA to bring in major pieces.
i agree and would go further and say that this is not the time to make a huge commitment to a forward; not when you have 3 guys with the *potential* to make an impact over the next 1-2 years and fill those holes w/o giving up anything (save salary). again, the approach last summer was part of a stated long term plan and although the team failed to achieve its main goal this season, the wisdom (or lack thereof) in the offseason UFA pickups cannot be judged until we see how these kids pan out.

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04-06-2008, 12:57 PM
  #41
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In the era of the salary cap, there are only a few strong and balanced teams in any given season with most of the teams trying to add missing pieces ,in the short term, thru trades and free agency and, in the long term, thru the draft. Not surprisingly, there is generally a correlation between how much playoff teams spend and how much non-playoff teams spend. Few of the bottom 12 teams in spending, like the Panthers, made the playoffs this year.

The Panthers are about average in terms of NHL talent. The team has very solid goal tending (Vokoun, Anderson), a young, talented, but frequently injured defensive core ( Bo, Van Rynn, Allen & Welch) and the personnel for an excellent second line (Weiss,Horton, Booth), a solid third line (Krepps/McLean, Dvorak, Zednick) and a checking 4th line (Campbell,Montador, Kilgar/Belak). What the Panthers lack is a true scoring winger to play with Ollie and Olesz. But, few teams have a difference maker, like Heatley, on the first line.

The Panthers main problem is not the conservative system that they play. The Panther's main problem is lack of discipline, which leads to costly turnovers, bad penalties and ultimately lost games. Lack of discipline during a game results directly from poor preparation at practice. The fault for which lies both with the players and the coaching staff.

I believe that we need to be patient and allow Martin the chance to rebuild the Panthers.

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04-06-2008, 01:01 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
I agree with most everything else, but I don't think we should be going after any RFA's like Carter or Perry, and have to give up yet another first round pick or multiple first rounders, not to mention the other picks. Especially with the super 2009 draft coming up. IMO guys like Carter and Perry are not worth all the picks we'd be giving up. We should be looking at trades or UFA to bring in major pieces.
Both Perry and Carter are 30+ goal scorers. Id offer $4.75 million to either of them, and deal with the consequences. You cant guarantee anything in the draft, and to get a 30+ goal scorer would benefit this team extremely over the offseason. Especially when they are in their mid 20s.

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i agree and would go further and say that this is not the time to make a huge commitment to a forward; not when you have 3 guys with the *potential* to make an impact over the next 1-2 years and fill those holes w/o giving up anything (save salary). again, the approach last summer was part of a stated long term plan and although the team failed to achieve its main goal this season, the wisdom (or lack thereof) in the offseason UFA pickups cannot be judged until we see how these kids pan out.
But isnt that what we all have been asking for? This team needs more top line talent. For years, we have always been bottom heavy, and Im tired of that. We have a very young and talented second line, and really three bottom lines with a couple of good players. We need another top flight player to give us two real good top lines, a formidable third line, and a rough checking line.

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04-06-2008, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Both Perry and Carter are 30+ goal scorers. Id offer $4.75 million to either of them, and deal with the consequences. You cant guarantee anything in the draft, and to get a 30+ goal scorer would benefit this team extremely over the offseason. Especially when they are in their mid 20s.
But the ultimate goal is to win the Cup, not make the playoffs next season. If we give up 3 first rounders to sign Perry or Carter, we are going to greatly damage our chances to ever win a Cup with this core. Those two players are nowhere close to being worth 3 first rounders. You don't know what's going to happen in the future or how draft picks are going to turn out, that's exactly the point. Imagine if we stink again next year(maybe not because we don't make the right moves, but because Bouw, Vokoun, and Olli all get injured for long stretches for example) and we get a chance to draft either Tavares or Hedman, but don't have our 1st rounder again? That would be disastrous. No non-playoff team should be dealing away 2 first round picks in a row, let alone 4 or 5. That's just a death wish for a franchise. What if Carter or Perry have career ending injuries next year(Bergeron, for example. He's seems like he'll recover now, but you never know), and then we dont have a first round pick for the next 3 years? Just not a smart move. UFA and trades offer much less risk for the same result.

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04-06-2008, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Both Perry and Carter are 30+ goal scorers. Id offer $4.75 million to either of them, and deal with the consequences. You cant guarantee anything in the draft, and to get a 30+ goal scorer would benefit this team extremely over the offseason. Especially when they are in their mid 20s.

But isnt that what we all have been asking for? This team needs more top line talent. For years, we have always been bottom heavy, and Im tired of that. We have a very young and talented second line, and really three bottom lines with a couple of good players. We need another top flight player to give us two real good top lines, a formidable third line, and a rough checking line.
not me. at least not via the methods some are suggesting. sure, we could use more scoring but that didn't prevent us from making the playoffs this year. i'm in favor of showing patience with our top 3 F prospects. ONE of them should make an impact next year. add that impact to a deeper and more experienced team and a backline that needs some help on the offensive side (murphy reads the play well but just can't, imo, become a big even strength factor) and you start seeing a different team, offensively speaking. based on what i've heard from JM, that is the plan. i think it will work.

i think we've got a lot of pieces up front and wouldn't want to commit to any changes there until we see how frolik, matthias and repik are able to fit in. instead, i would go after campbell. having a couple of pairings that can move the puck up ice and make things happen would be huge (do people realize how much that would change the possession equation?) and would relieve some of the pressure on bo.

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04-06-2008, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
not me. at least not via the methods some are suggesting. sure, we could use more scoring but that didn't prevent us from making the playoffs this year. i'm in favor of showing patience with our top 3 F prospects. ONE of them should make an impact next year. add that impact to a deeper and more experienced team and a backline that needs some help on the offensive side (murphy reads the play well but just can't, imo, become a big even strength factor) and you start seeing a different team, offensively speaking. based on what i've heard from JM, that is the plan. i think it will work.

i think we've got a lot of pieces up front and wouldn't want to commit to any changes there until we see how frolik, matthias and repik are able to fit in. instead, i would go after campbell. having a couple of pairings that can move the puck up ice and make things happen would be huge (do people realize how much that would change the possession equation?) and would relieve some of the pressure on bo.
I can agree with that. What Ive said in other posts was maybe going after a Campbell/Rolston type combo. After seeing that signing Carter or Perry for even $4 million per, it would cost us two 1s, a 2nd and 3rd, I figure its a lot to give up. Campbell would give us an effective top four pairing, as well as take a lot of pressure off Jay. Rolston would give us 25-30 goals, plus an option at captain.

I think a forward signing is a must, if anything, because of the amount of injuries this team has averaged over the past few seasons. Id rather be safe and have a couple of vets that are able to play due to injury, rather than bringing up minors who are not ready for the NHL. Plus, going with Rolston would balance the team out so much more.

Olesz - Olli - Rolston
Booth - Weiss - Horton
McLean - Kreps - Zednik
Dvo - Campbell - Monty/Belak

Bouw - Allen
Campbell - Scratchoff

There you have three lines that would be able to score, and a fourth line that would be physical and responsible defensively. Then, worst case scenario, you have one of Kilger/Stumpel/Pelt as well as one of Belak/Monty for injuries or matchup preferences. This is all contingent on them getting rid of some of the trash this team has.

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04-06-2008, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
I can agree with that. What Ive said in other posts was maybe going after a Campbell/Rolston type combo. After seeing that signing Carter or Perry for even $4 million per, it would cost us two 1s, a 2nd and 3rd, I figure its a lot to give up. Campbell would give us an effective top four pairing, as well as take a lot of pressure off Jay. Rolston would give us 25-30 goals, plus an option at captain.

I think a forward signing is a must, if anything, because of the amount of injuries this team has averaged over the past few seasons. Id rather be safe and have a couple of vets that are able to play due to injury, rather than bringing up minors who are not ready for the NHL. Plus, going with Rolston would balance the team out so much more.

Olesz - Olli - Rolston
Booth - Weiss - Horton
McLean - Kreps - Zednik
Dvo - Campbell - Monty/Belak

Bouw - Allen
Campbell - Scratchoff

There you have three lines that would be able to score, and a fourth line that would be physical and responsible defensively. Then, worst case scenario, you have one of Kilger/Stumpel/Pelt as well as one of Belak/Monty for injuries or matchup preferences. This is all contingent on them getting rid of some of the trash this team has.
only problem with that plan is that you don't leave any room for matthias and i think JM (by virtue of his callup this year) is really thinking that matthias will skip the A and jump right to the bigs. otherwise, i like the idea. rolston could additionally provide a bridge to a future captaincy for weiss.

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04-06-2008, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
only problem with that plan is that you don't leave any room for matthias and i think JM (by virtue of his callup this year) is really thinking that matthias will skip the A and jump right to the bigs. otherwise, i like the idea. rolston could additionally provide a bridge to a future captaincy for weiss.
You can bring Matthias up, and maybe a Olli/Matthias/Rolston line would be more productive, but then what happens with Olesz. Rusty compliments any line he would play on, but he really needs some quality minutes, which he wouldnt get on the lower two lines. Unless you want to move Olli, then you can maybe have something like:

Booth - Weiss - Horton
Olli trade - Matthias - Rolston/Prospal

This team has options. They have UFA/RFAs that are borderline for this team, and they are going to have some cap room to play with. From GM to coach to players, this offseason should play a big part into what this organization will accomplish in the next few seasons. Its extremely important we go out on the market and do what we HAVE to do to take that next step. NO MORE 3rd/4th LINE GUYS!

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04-06-2008, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
And look at the teams beneath us. Multiple Stanley Cups, and two of the better GMs in the league. But who wouldnt want to follow the Devils, Hurricanes, or Stars blueprint?
That's one of the most intellectually dishonest things I've ever read on this board.

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04-06-2008, 02:39 PM
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I love how you guys are jumping on Rolston coming here because he's an UFA. For all we know, he could re-sign once the playoffs end.

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04-06-2008, 02:47 PM
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JM needs to go as coach that is for sure for all the reasons that has been said before by me and many others in this board for months now. I don't think he has done a bad job as GM though signing just 3rd liners this offseason and not picking up a Kariya or Selanne or other top flight forward to help Olli would have probably got us in the playoffs. Our depth on the team (when healthy) is better, we have very good goaltenders, they're great players coming up soon and he signed long term our good but not great young players who should get better. Martin as a coach is a big problem on this team and we need someone else who can play a more offensively aggressive system, better motivate these players and we can turn this around.

Olli Jokinen needs help, no more 3rd line forwards or crusty old guys mocking as 1st liners. Sign a big name free agent already, enough is enough. Signing Hossa, Rolston or Marcus Naslund who has been a great captain for Vancouver over the years would be good names to consider and get this burden of lifting this franchise to the playoffs off Jokinens back already!

This team has been close to make the playoffs these past couple years and i don't think an entire overhaul is needed but we need to spend some money and get some help on that first line another good defenseman , a new coach to get the best out of these players and for most of all stay healthy!

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