HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Florida Panthers
Notices

Panthers May Follow Dallas Stars Model

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-06-2008, 07:00 AM
  #1
Georgia Panther
Registered User
 
Georgia Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BufordGA/FranklinNC
Posts: 4,825
vCash: 500
Panthers May Follow Dallas Stars Model

According to Garrioch, the Panthers may follow the Dallas Stars Model and replace JM with Co-General Managers.

(The man feeling the most heat is Florida coach and GM Jacques Martin. Missing the playoffs isn't sitting well with Panthers owner Alan Cohen. Cohen could be looking at having co-GMs like they have in Dallas with Les Jackson and Brett Hull . While Joe Nieuwendyk could take on more of a role in the front office, the talk is the Panthers might hire former Boston assistant GM Jeff Gorton to work with the longtime NHL great. Cohen has a lot of respect for Gorton. "It's up to the owner," said Florida G Tomas Vokoun. "When something like this happens, usually there are changes, in the sense there should be changes." )

http://www.ottawasun.com/Sports/Colu...06331-sun.html

Georgia Panther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 07:13 AM
  #2
Georgia Panther
Registered User
 
Georgia Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BufordGA/FranklinNC
Posts: 4,825
vCash: 500
Not really a fan of the Co-GM idea. Would like Nieuwy to be in charge of Hockey Operations in that he hires and fires the GM and Head Coach without doing their jobs.

Georgia Panther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 07:44 AM
  #3
Mogo
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
Mogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 9,536
vCash: 813
I still dont see how Joe can be GM, scout, hockey director or anything like that because didnt he pretty much quit because he couldnt take the flights anymore as it hurt his back.

Mogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 07:47 AM
  #4
Laus723
Future Now
 
Laus723's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 26,633
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
I still dont see how Joe can be GM, scout, hockey director or anything like that because didnt he pretty much quit because he couldnt take the flights anymore as it hurt his back.
Yes...so he won't be anytime soon, I'd imagine.

__________________
So you're saying there's a chance!
Laus723 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 07:51 AM
  #5
Happy Girl
Registered User
 
Happy Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: a playoff free world
Posts: 6,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
I still dont see how Joe can be GM, scout, hockey director or anything like that because didnt he pretty much quit because he couldnt take the flights anymore as it hurt his back.
true but i wonder if he's not playing hockey if that could make a difference? he's obviously traveling - i am assuming by plane. honestly i don't know - perhaps that would be a good off season project for GR to look in to? Another big question, that I don't think has been addressed, is if Joe has any interest in any of these positions. We can speculate here all day long but I'd like to see someone actually get Joe on the record about this issue. And if you could include a current photo that would be good too.

Happy Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 08:14 AM
  #6
angry_treefrog
Moderator
T63813A
 
angry_treefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canary Islands
Posts: 6,385
vCash: 500
What evidence is there that Joe Nieuwendyk would make an effective hockey executive?

He MAY do an excellent job, but how does anyone know? The skill set for a great player and a great executive may have some overlap, but they aren't identical.

__________________
FLORIDA PANTHERS EPISODE XX: A NEW HOPE



angry_treefrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 08:26 AM
  #7
Laus723
Future Now
 
Laus723's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 26,633
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
What evidence is there that Joe Nieuwendyk would make an effective hockey executive?

He MAY do an excellent job, but how does anyone know? The skill set for a great player and a great executive may have some overlap, but they aren't identical.
Agreed. For all the flak GP gives Martin, why would he want someone else who's done nothing in the NHL as a Gm either? Cause it worked for Hull? We don't know how it has or hasn't worked just yet, the playoffs are just starting.

Niuewy's got one of the most brilliant hockey minds out there...while on the ice. It remains to be seen how that will translate behind a phone, pen, and paper.

Laus723 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 09:48 AM
  #8
FinallyWeissIsGone
Formerly Akgoalie7
 
FinallyWeissIsGone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Flori-duh
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,033
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FinallyWeissIsGone
Didn't Newy "suggest" Kilger????


FAIL!

FinallyWeissIsGone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 11:08 AM
  #9
Clint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 6,340
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Clint
Oh, Jesus H.

More turnaround in the front office. I swear to God, I'm realizing again that Cohen is the problem with this team, not Jokinen, not the Luongo fiasco, not Keenan, and not Martin.

His inability to stick to one path and wait patiently to build a winner makes me want to kill myself. Couple that with the fact that he insists on the fans coming out to support a loser before he spends real money to build a winner make me want to abandon this team. I've tried many times before, but I just can't.

Clint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 11:22 AM
  #10
VirtualSpree
 
VirtualSpree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miami
Country: United States
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Aren't these the same guys that were saying Olli was definitely going to be traded at the deadline? At this point I can't believe anything the Canadian media says about our team.

VirtualSpree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 11:35 AM
  #11
Georgia Panther
Registered User
 
Georgia Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BufordGA/FranklinNC
Posts: 4,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Agreed. For all the flak GP gives Martin, why would he want someone else who's done nothing in the NHL as a Gm either? Cause it worked for Hull? We don't know how it has or hasn't worked just yet, the playoffs are just starting.

Niuewy's got one of the most brilliant hockey minds out there...while on the ice. It remains to be seen how that will translate behind a phone, pen, and paper.
I said I would want Nieuwy in a Bill Parcells type position, that is the person who hires and fires the GM and Head Coach and monitors, evaluates and consults with them. In essense, making the decisions that Cohen now makes on the Hockey Side of the team. That's a lot different than being the GM and being in charge of the make-up of the roster and scouting and traveling with the team on the road.

Georgia Panther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 12:08 PM
  #12
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,337
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
I said I would want Nieuwy in a Bill Parcells type position, that is the person who hires and fires the GM and Head Coach and monitors, evaluates and consults with them. In essense, making the decisions that Cohen now makes on the Hockey Side of the team. That's a lot different than being the GM and being in charge of the make-up of the roster and scouting and traveling with the team on the road.
I would be happy with that. Some mention great players dont always become great coaches, GMs, etc., but I dont think that would apply to Joe. He has a great hockey mind, been on a lot of successful franchises who were ran and built the right way, and he would bring that to this team. President would be a great fit for him.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 12:41 PM
  #13
Markstrom Rules
Great Finnish
 
Markstrom Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 15,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akgoalie7-sisu View Post
Didn't Newy "suggest" Kilger????


FAIL!
Exactly.

Markstrom Rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 12:46 PM
  #14
Markstrom Rules
Great Finnish
 
Markstrom Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 15,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Not really a fan of the Co-GM idea. Would like Nieuwy to be in charge of Hockey Operations in that he hires and fires the GM and Head Coach without doing their jobs.
Yeah, I don't want co-GMs either. Setting up yet ANOTHER situation where you have two guys with equal power reporting directly to Cohen. When is this guy ever going to learn from his mistakes???? I really hope this isn't true. Being that's it's Garrioch, it probably isn't. But the sad thing is, I can see Cohen actually setting up a structure like this.

I do like Gorton though, I wouldn't mind him as GM. But no Nieuwendyk. Either keep him in his current role, make him president, whatever. But no co-GMs.

Markstrom Rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 01:46 PM
  #15
Clint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 6,340
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Clint
I'm not understanding the hate that Nieuwy is getting for suggesting Kilger. If you think about it, the style of game that Kilger brings would have complemented the Panthers well, considering no one on our team forechecks and finishes their checks.

It wasn't Nieuwendyk's fault that Martin didn't do an appropriate background check on the guy to make sure he could play out the season. So Nieuwy suggested Kilger, so what? He probably told Martin, 'Hey this guy is a good locker room character and gives 100% every shift.' How is it his fault that Kilger had his 'personal issues' get in the way of his career?

FAIL? My ass.

Clint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 01:52 PM
  #16
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,337
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
I'm not understanding the hate that Nieuwy is getting for suggesting Kilger. If you think about it, the style of game that Kilger brings would have complemented the Panthers well, considering no one on our team forechecks and finishes their checks.

It wasn't Nieuwendyk's fault that Martin didn't do an appropriate background check on the guy to make sure he could play out the season. So Nieuwy suggested Kilger, so what? He probably told Martin, 'Hey this guy is a good locker room character and gives 100% every shift.' How is it his fault that Kilger had his 'personal issues' get in the way of his career?

FAIL? My ass.


Id like Kilger for a 3rd/4th line platoon, as long as he can come in focused.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 01:56 PM
  #17
Laus723
Future Now
 
Laus723's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 26,633
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
I'm not understanding the hate that Nieuwy is getting for suggesting Kilger. If you think about it, the style of game that Kilger brings would have complemented the Panthers well, considering no one on our team forechecks and finishes their checks.

It wasn't Nieuwendyk's fault that Martin didn't do an appropriate background check on the guy to make sure he could play out the season. So Nieuwy suggested Kilger, so what? He probably told Martin, 'Hey this guy is a good locker room character and gives 100% every shift.' How is it his fault that Kilger had his 'personal issues' get in the way of his career?

FAIL? My ass.
These are also the same people who're saying that Martin is to blame for the Luongo trade.

Laus723 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 02:03 PM
  #18
Happy Girl
Registered User
 
Happy Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: a playoff free world
Posts: 6,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
I'm not understanding the hate that Nieuwy is getting for suggesting Kilger. If you think about it, the style of game that Kilger brings would have complemented the Panthers well, considering no one on our team forechecks and finishes their checks.

It wasn't Nieuwendyk's fault that Martin didn't do an appropriate background check on the guy to make sure he could play out the season. So Nieuwy suggested Kilger, so what? He probably told Martin, 'Hey this guy is a good locker room character and gives 100% every shift.' How is it his fault that Kilger had his 'personal issues' get in the way of his career?

FAIL? My ass.
I would also add that when Joe played with Kilger in Toronto several years ago, he wasn't having these issues - whatever they are - or at least it was not publically known if he was having issues.

Happy Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 02:08 PM
  #19
Clint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 6,340
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Clint
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
These are also the same people who're saying that Martin is to blame for the Luongo trade.
All the tea in China says that Nieuwy will be a genius next year if Kilger comes in and crashes and bangs every shift like he did in Toronto.

Clint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 02:10 PM
  #20
Georgia Panther
Registered User
 
Georgia Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BufordGA/FranklinNC
Posts: 4,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
These are also the same people who're saying that Martin is to blame for the Luongo trade.
Whoa, I never said Nieuwy was to blame for the Kilger trade!!!

Georgia Panther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 03:00 PM
  #21
Clint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 6,340
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Clint
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Whoa, I never said Nieuwy was to blame for the Kilger trade!!!
Don't be so defensive. Just because you didn't say it doesn't mean that others haven't.

Clint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 03:40 PM
  #22
Laus723
Future Now
 
Laus723's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 26,633
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
All the tea in China says that Nieuwy will be a genius next year if Kilger comes in and crashes and bangs every shift like he did in Toronto.
Without a doubt. I also don't expect Martin to get any credit at all whatsoever, either.

Laus723 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 03:45 PM
  #23
I May Be Wrong
Could Be Right?
 
I May Be Wrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 8,176
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to I May Be Wrong
Itd be cool to see Nieuwy as president...


but just how close are Yormark and Cohen, is Yormark's position solidified indefnitely?

I May Be Wrong is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 04:47 PM
  #24
Markstrom Rules
Great Finnish
 
Markstrom Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 15,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
I'm not understanding the hate that Nieuwy is getting for suggesting Kilger. If you think about it, the style of game that Kilger brings would have complemented the Panthers well, considering no one on our team forechecks and finishes their checks.

It wasn't Nieuwendyk's fault that Martin didn't do an appropriate background check on the guy to make sure he could play out the season. So Nieuwy suggested Kilger, so what? He probably told Martin, 'Hey this guy is a good locker room character and gives 100% every shift.' How is it his fault that Kilger had his 'personal issues' get in the way of his career?

FAIL? My ass.
Newy suggested Martin to go after Kilger. Now, being that as Martin is head coach AND GM, and was also busy working the phones on deadline day, I'd assume Newy has some responsibility to do the required homework on Kilger. Not to mention, he recommended Newy to Martin, so he was vouching for his character and the fact that he would be a good addition here(and yes, that includes his ability to actually be able to play here). Now of course, we don't know how much responsibility Newy actually had as far as having to do the homework on Kilger before completing the trade(and we're talking about a problem that should have been known league-wide after just doing a preliminary check, not even something that might have been well concealed), but seeing as how Newy was most likely not doing nearly as much as JM on DD day, I would assume he was doing most of the homework. A lot of times, a GM will trust in his scouts or advisors, and in a situation like this, he was most definitely trusting Newy's advice.

You can't just put all the blame on Martin on this one and totally absolve Newy. He should shoulder part of the blame. Like I've said before, it's Martin's fault for trusting Newy, but Newy deserves blame also. If by chance it was actually found out about Kilger's previous absence in Toronto, and the Panthers made the trade anyway, then Newy deserves blame for vouching for Kilger's character and that he would be a good addition here.

Markstrom Rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2008, 05:58 PM
  #25
Clint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 6,340
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Clint
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
Newy suggested Martin to go after Kilger. Now, being that as Martin is head coach AND GM, and was also busy working the phones on deadline day, I'd assume Newy has some responsibility to do the required homework on Kilger. Not to mention, he recommended Newy to Martin, so he was vouching for his character and the fact that he would be a good addition here(and yes, that includes his ability to actually be able to play here). Now of course, we don't know how much responsibility Newy actually had as far as having to do the homework on Kilger before completing the trade(and we're talking about a problem that should have been known league-wide after just doing a preliminary check, not even something that might have been well concealed), but seeing as how Newy was most likely not doing nearly as much as JM on DD day, I would assume he was doing most of the homework. A lot of times, a GM will trust in his scouts or advisors, and in a situation like this, he was most definitely trusting Newy's advice.

You can't just put all the blame on Martin on this one and totally absolve Newy. He should shoulder part of the blame. Like I've said before, it's Martin's fault for trusting Newy, but Newy deserves blame also. If by chance it was actually found out about Kilger's previous absence in Toronto, and the Panthers made the trade anyway, then Newy deserves blame for vouching for Kilger's character and that he would be a good addition here.
No.

What if the conversation went like this?

"Hey, Joe. Can you tell me a player that you've played with the past few years who is still relatively young, has speed, size, and the willingness to throw his body around? Do you know anyone who forechecks with tenacity, who finishes his checks with authority, and who is willing to backcheck? Are there any guys around that you know of who can fill any role asked of them, have leadership skills, are good in the locker room? Can you think of a player that will leave it all out on the ice and stand up for his team mates? Do you know anyone who fits this bill, Joe? Oh, did I mention that he has to be signed past this year and can't be to expensive to pick up at the deadline?"

"Yeah, Jacques. I do know a guy like that. His name is Chad Kilger. I played with him in Toronto in 2004. He's a hard worker and I think he may fit well on this team."

How in God's freaking name can Joe Nieuwendyk be held responsible for Chad Kilger's 'personal issues?' Just because he suggested his name to Jacques Martin? That's absurd and I really think you're jumping to conclusions.

Clint is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:31 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.