HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

ATD #9, Part 4

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-07-2008, 09:42 AM
  #26
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 20,807
vCash: 500
If off to school. This said, I have my picks sent in my inbox, and will be able to check at a semi-regular basis until 4 PM EST. Around 4:00 PM, I'll forward my messageif we're close enough to pick. If not, I'll be back here around 7:30/8:00 PM.

MXD is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 09:48 AM
  #27
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 20,807
vCash: 500
...And LapierreSports might come around anyways.

MXD is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 09:58 AM
  #28
shawnmullin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Swift Current
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,172
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to shawnmullin Send a message via MSN to shawnmullin
anybody?? take my list?

shawnmullin is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 10:00 AM
  #29
papershoes
Registered User
 
papershoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kenora, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnmullin View Post
anybody?? take my list?
i can take it...i should be around most of the day

we also pick right before you, so that should work out well.

papershoes is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 10:01 AM
  #30
pitseleh
Registered User
 
pitseleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,644
vCash: 500
I can take it mullin.

pitseleh is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 10:26 AM
  #31
shawnmullin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Swift Current
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,172
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to shawnmullin Send a message via MSN to shawnmullin
Quote:
Originally Posted by papershoes View Post
i can take it...i should be around most of the day

we also pick right before you, so that should work out well.
Well ya so I don't want you see my list and get any ideas

I sent it to Pit, not that you don't have a plan, but I don't want to give you any ideas

shawnmullin is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 10:30 AM
  #32
papershoes
Registered User
 
papershoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kenora, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnmullin View Post
Well ya so I don't want you see my list and get any ideas

I sent it to Pit, not that you don't have a plan, but I don't want to give you any ideas
sounds good...not that i would steal any ideas (i'm a fairly trustworthy chap).

papershoes is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 10:36 AM
  #33
shawnmullin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Swift Current
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,172
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to shawnmullin Send a message via MSN to shawnmullin
Well it's not a matter of trustworthy honestly... you have every right to draft anyone when it's your pick.

shawnmullin is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 10:41 AM
  #34
God Bless Canada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bentley reunion
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,790
vCash: 500
More random thoughts…

*Hooley Smith is an outstanding pick. His all-round game and versatility – he could play all three forward positions – made him possibly the most valuable forward available at that point in the draft.
*Are we going to see a Lindsay-Tocchet wing tandem in Calgary? That would be a lesson in punishment. Or is Tocchet being saved for a line with Sutter?
*Run of RWs isn’t surprising. Guys like Maltsev, Dye and Gilbert, with their impressive offensive abilities, can only stay on the board for so long. Those who were playing the waiting game on their wingers are starting to see options diminish.
*Suter’s a solid No. 3 defenceman. One of those guys who can do it all: move the puck, anchor the power play or the penalty kill, work the corners and play tough. A guy who doesn’t always get the credit he deserves because he was overshadowed by the number of great defencemen in the late 80s or early 90s.
*Least surprising pick: pappy got Eddie Litzenberger. One of pappy’s boys. And when you consider that pappy doesn’t pick again until the ninth round, Litzenberger was a no-brainer for him. You have to go with the guys you want.
*Barrasso’s an interesting pick. He was at the (very) bottom of my potential No. 1 goalies list. He’s a borderline 1/2 goalie. But if you don’t think he can be a No. 1, you don’t pick him at all. We saw in Ottawa this year just how damaging a back-up with a bad attitude can be.

God Bless Canada is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 10:48 AM
  #35
Evil Sather
YOU KILL THE JOE
 
Evil Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YOU MAKE SOME MO
Posts: 1,898
vCash: 500
The Ice are going to rely on their 1st line to score and wait on a goalie instead of reaching, opting for the brick wall method instead. Maybe a bit early, but so what:

5-time Cup Winner, rock solid, and a true leader (gonna need it with all those damn Russians), D Terry Harper.

Bourque
Vasiliev
Flaman
Harper

Good luck, opposing forwards.

Evil Sather is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 10:55 AM
  #36
God Bless Canada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bentley reunion
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,790
vCash: 500
I have TC's pick. The Glace Bay Miners are pleased to select: LW Marty Pavelich.

God Bless Canada is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 11:57 AM
  #37
raleh
Registered User
 
raleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 1,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather View Post
The Ice are going to rely on their 1st line to score and wait on a goalie instead of reaching, opting for the brick wall method instead. Maybe a bit early, but so what:

5-time Cup Winner, rock solid, and a true leader (gonna need it with all those damn Russians), D Terry Harper.

Bourque
Vasiliev
Flaman
Harper

Good luck, opposing forwards.
AND there's still some solid goaltending left out there. Nicely done.

raleh is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 12:10 PM
  #38
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 20,807
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather View Post
The Ice are going to rely on their 1st line to score and wait on a goalie instead of reaching, opting for the brick wall method instead. Maybe a bit early, but so what:

5-time Cup Winner, rock solid, and a true leader (gonna need it with all those damn Russians), D Terry Harper.

Bourque
Vasiliev
Flaman
Harper

Good luck, opposing forwards.

I like Harper, but I have the feeling I'll never select this guy in ATD, mainly because he'll go roughly 200 spots earlier than I would select him, and because you can have really similar guys later. But hey, this draft has seen some out-of-the-box thinking, and it's not like it's a bad pick, nor a pick that will hurt you either. I'm confident that Sather will have plenty of guys able to take care of the transition game as well so he could exploit his offense to his maximal capacities.

MXD is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 01:23 PM
  #39
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Meant to hit his one back over the net some time ago, but didn't get around to it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh
All I've read about Gerard is that he was alongside Cleghorn as the best defensive defensemen of the early NHL and that he played physical but not dirty.

Again, it wasn't a deep era (he didn't have the same competition as Mantha) though.
You're probably referring to Cleghorn's HHOF bio, in which it states: "But Cleghorn wasn't a mere bully; he was respected for exceptional defensive play that was considered to be at the same level as such stars as Eddie Gerard and George Boucher."

Of course, this raises the question: should we raise Gerard and Boucher's stock or downgrade Cleghorn's based on that information?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Dale Cooper
Gerard was, at worst, the 2nd or 3rd best defenseman of his era.
Considering that I only count four great defensemen in Gerard's era (Boucher, Cleghorn, Gerard, himself, and ******), that's not saying much. In my opinion, he could actually be as low as 4th best. It's funny, but all the superlatives I've seen thrown around about the defensemen from this era are essentially comparing them to each other. Should we not note that this was easily the weakest era for competition at defense in NHL history?

When Sylvio Mantha is called "one of the most revered defensive defensemen of this era", his era includes names like Shore, Seibert, Conacher, Clapper (as a defenseman), Clancy, Horner, Day and several other notables who have not yet been drafted - to say nothing of the disparity in the quality of forwards Mantha and his contemporaries had to deal with. Comparing Gerard's defensive skills to those of Cleghorn and Boucher it a far cry from comparing Mantha's to those of Shore, Clapper and Seibert, nevermind unqualified statements like Pelletier's:

Quote:
Mantha, one of the all time best defensive blue liners...
As far as I know, no source has ever credited any blueliner from the early-NHL era as an all-time great defensive defenseman, and that's ignoring obvious physical differences (Gerard's lack of a mean streak and Boucher's lack of footspeed). pit, you acknowledged that the depth of the early-NHL era wasn't as great, but the large gap in quality between the eras should be made plain. Although this was really meant as an extension of the discussion about Gerard, Boucher and Mantha, I kind of wonder if Sprague-o-mania hasn't overvalued him a bit, as well. I don't think I can ever see myself picking Cleghorn ahead of Clancy or Gadsby, at a minimum.

Sturminator is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 01:33 PM
  #40
pitseleh
Registered User
 
pitseleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Meant to hit his one back over the net some time ago, but didn't get around to it...



You're probably referring to Cleghorn's HHOF bio, in which it states: "But Cleghorn wasn't a mere bully; he was respected for exceptional defensive play that was considered to be at the same level as such stars as Eddie Gerard and George Boucher."

Of course, this raises the question: should we raise Gerard and Boucher's stock or downgrade Cleghorn's based on that information?
It's also based on some old news articles I've been reading. Most of the articles that I've read from the mid-30's suggest that Gerard, Mantha, Cleghorn, and Ching Johnson and a couple others were seen as the top defensive defensemen in NHL history to that point. Interestingly, players like Clancy and Shore were not really regarded as top defensive defensemen.

As an aside, I read an interesting article discussing the Coulter for Seibert trade saying the two blueliners were virtually identical. After that point though, Seibert went on to have a much better career. I wonder how much injuries held Coulter back?

pitseleh is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 01:41 PM
  #41
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
I wasn't aware that Art Coulter had serious injury problems. He seems to have actually peaked (at least offensively) rather late in his career. Although it may be a laborious task, would you mind sharing some snippets from the articles you've read, pit?

As much fun as it is competing for the old MDC, I'm also interested in learning more about these guys, whether or not it puts a shine on the Isotopes' collective penny. So much of the pre O6 era is still quite obscure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh
Interestingly, players like Clancy and Shore were not really regarded as top defensive defensemen.
I've heard this before. It doesn't surprise me as pertains to Clancy, but I think the assumption has always been that Shore pretty much dominated both ends of the ice. First or even secondhand sources (if you've got them) might give us a better idea of what these players were really all about. As always, defensemen are the hardest to accurately evaluate, as so much of what they do cannot be measured statistically.

Sturminator is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 01:47 PM
  #42
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 50
The Viagara Shizay Mo Dizzle Donair City Loch Ness Monsters like em built tough and mean for the playoffs.

We proudly select Dave 'Bam Bam' Langevin for our defence corps

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 01:51 PM
  #43
ck26
7,709 miles & runnin
 
ck26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Coyotes Bandwagon
Country: United States
Posts: 6,852
vCash: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky View Post
The Viagara Shizay Mo Dizzle Donair City Loch Ness Monsters like em built tough and mean for the playoffs.

We proudly select Dave 'Bam Bam' Langevin for our defence corps


Nalyd and I grabbed him in the midrounds of MLD8. Very suprised to see him taken this early.

ck26 is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 01:52 PM
  #44
pitseleh
Registered User
 
pitseleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,644
vCash: 500
When I have more time later, I'll dig up more quotes, but here are some I have handy (stolen from some other posts of mine):

- Frank Boucher on defensemen, when asked if Eddie Shore is the hardest man to slip by: "No, I wouldn't say so. xx is harder to get by. Shore is a rusher. But for tackling you when you come in and blocking you away from that net, xx is tougher. Not that Shore is easy, you know. No, sir. But fellows like Shore and Clancy catch the eye of the spectator when they buzz up and down the rink, while fellows like xx and Sylvio Mantha can do great defensive work without attracting half as much notice." (I know you're not a huge fan of player comments )

- Red Mackenzie, a writer who covered the NHL from it's inception (a summary): Eddie Shore and Sprague Cleghorn are the best all around defensemen he has seen. Both were steady blockers, better than average pasers and goal scoring threats every second they were on the ice. He goes on to talk about their glaring weakness as being penalty prone and how it has cost their teams games in the past. He also groups Eddie Gerard with these two, but as a cleaner version of them.

To steal from HO (I read the same/similar article):

"Also, while browsing through the newspaper from April 20, 1933, I read a fascinating discussion about whether Eddie Shore is the greatest defenseman in NHL history. The article notes that King Clancy, xx and Ching Johnson were better defensively but that Shore was clearly better offensively and was still strong, a good shot-blocker, and a tough fighter."

Since Hooley was just drafted (and I love the quote):

- Another good quote from Hooley Smith after he joined the Senators. He asked for Nighbor and said "Nighbor, they tell me you have a fair check out there on the ice, but I intend showing you how it should be done and all you other guys are pretty lucky that I am on your side." Mackenzie goes on to say that after he switched from RW to C that he was the best defensive center after Nighbor.


Last edited by pitseleh: 04-07-2008 at 01:57 PM.
pitseleh is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 01:54 PM
  #45
God Bless Canada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bentley reunion
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,790
vCash: 500
I wish raleh was around to announce this pick, because he was a big proponent of this selection since about the second round. Ottawa RCAF Flyers are pleased to select a goalie who won two Stanley Cups, and garnered a reputation as the best big save/big game goalie in the business in the late 60s and for much of the 70s:

G Gerry Cheevers


More to come later today.

God Bless Canada is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 01:55 PM
  #46
Diving Pokecheck*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky View Post
The Viagara Shizay Mo Dizzle Donair City Loch Ness Monsters like em built tough and mean for the playoffs.

We proudly select Dave 'Bam Bam' Langevin for our defence corps
what a rise! Langevin was picked 30th overall (3rd round) in last year's minor league draft, and is now picked in the 7th round of the main draft.

Diving Pokecheck* is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 02:05 PM
  #47
pitseleh
Registered User
 
pitseleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I wasn't aware that Art Coulter had serious injury problems. He seems to have actually peaked (at least offensively) rather late in his career. Although it may be a laborious task, would you mind sharing some snippets from the articles you've read, pit?

As much fun as it is competing for the old MDC, I'm also interested in learning more about these guys, whether or not it puts a shine on the Isotopes' collective penny. So much of the pre O6 era is still quite obscure.
The injury thing isn't any one specific mention, but in Ultimate Hockey they talk about him battling countless injuries.

As for the trade (it's easy to find) here's one of the quotes, from the New York Times:

"Coulter and Seibert are practically on par as far as playing ability is concerned. The former was named for the all-star team last year in a managers' poll, and Seibert was placed on the second team. In a sports writers' poll, however, the situation was reveresed, Seibert gaining a place on the first team and Coulter on the second."

There's a quote from Lester about how "Seibert will fin the the conditions in Chicago more suitable to his temperament", though I'm not sure what he was getting at.

pitseleh is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 02:06 PM
  #48
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 10,696
vCash: 500
Did papershoes PM anyone a list by any chance before he logged 15 minutes ago?

FissionFire is online now  
Old
04-07-2008, 02:06 PM
  #49
God Bless Canada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bentley reunion
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,790
vCash: 500
Johnny O sent me a list early the morning. Well, not really a list, just a name: three-time first-team all-star LW Markus Naslund.

God Bless Canada is offline  
Old
04-07-2008, 02:08 PM
  #50
pitseleh
Registered User
 
pitseleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,644
vCash: 500
mullin, in the jerkiest jerk-face move ever, selects D Harry Cameron.

pitseleh is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:42 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.