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Ovechkin's #1s this season

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Old
04-10-2008, 12:21 PM
  #101
LannysStach
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leap-frogging masterpiece seasons

The more I think about it, the more I love how these 3 post-lockout seasons have gone: with Crosby and Ovechkin both making their debuts, and how they were both fantastic but the slightly older Ovy ran away with it in year 1 and deservedly won the Calder. And then the next year Crosby broke out and totally dominated, and again deservedly won an armful of trophies. This year, Ovechkin takes the title of “Best in the World” for a year.

Who knows what would have happened this season if Croz didn’t slide into the boards awkwardly that one game. But if each season is like a game in a series, this one’s gone back and forth, and now it’s: Ovechkin 2, Crosby 1. And what’s so great is – what Crosby did after Ovechkin bested him in his rookie season! like, Look out next year! If he got 120 points back on that Pens team of last season, think what he could do in 82 games next year!

And on top of that – gawd-willing the two will meet in the next round later this month. I mean, we think they compete in the regular season! I know that there’s two teams and 40 other players involved, but this is going to be an all-sport classic! We’re gonna have to think of some other classic playoff match-ups in NHL history, but I can’t think of one that comes close to this. It would sorta have to be Gretzky vs. Lemieux for anything recent – but I don’t remember them ever facing each other in the playoffs. musta happened.

This is like Richard – Howe in the 50s. correct me if I’m wrong, but I can’t think of two really dominant forwards with the will of a thousand men behind them going head to head, really, in the last 30 or so years. It could involve Messier on one side, but i can't really remember him playing against another Messier. Like, a Messier vs. Iginla -- that would be similar. There's just not that many players that dominate the way the few elites do.

anyway, what a blessing for the sport and the league that the Caps squeaked in!


Last edited by LannysStach: 04-10-2008 at 02:02 PM. Reason: adding the question
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Old
04-10-2008, 02:21 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dicky113 View Post
It's this attitude that creates puck hogs. Assists can be every bit as important as goals.
I think the perception that goals are better than assists comes from the fact that the NHL hands out assists like candy. I don't think you would have that problem if assists were awarded only when they were deserved (like in other leagues).

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04-10-2008, 02:35 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Dicky113 View Post
Ovechkin is great, but Crosby is better. If Crosby had of stayed healthy he would have beaten Ovechkin in points by a wide margin.
Yes I agree 100%, it's not about what the player ACTUALLY does, it's about what they COULD have done.

Do you hear that knocking? I think Forsberg & Lindros are here to collect their awards...

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04-10-2008, 02:59 PM
  #104
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God damn. Don't get me wrong, I love OV, but you guys forget fast.


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04-10-2008, 03:04 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey66 View Post
God damn. Don't get me wrong, I love OV, but you guys forget fast.

Have you not read any of this thread?

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04-10-2008, 03:13 PM
  #106
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Yes, and 1, maybe 2 people brought up Crosby's 120 point season.

Crosby was playing with what would be 3rd liners the majority of last season, minus a few games/the PP with Malkin.

They both had 6 more points than the next player, but Crosby had 8 more total.

They both brought teams that were pretty much useless the previous season into the playoffs.

Ovechkin scored a lot of goals, but to say "OMGZ most dominent seazon evar!!1 crozbie pwnage!!" is ridiculous when they've had comparable seasons performance wise in back to back years. Plus Ovechkin is 2 years older, when is a HUGE gap when you're that young.

And this is coming from an Ovechkin fan, I just can't stand the blatant homerism on this board and how everybody thinks whoever is performing best at that moment is the best player in the league. Malkin went on a huge tear earlier in the season and there were 1000's of posts on how Malkin is better than Crosby and Ovechkin.

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Old
04-10-2008, 03:52 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey66 View Post
God damn. Don't get me wrong, I love OV, but you guys forget fast.

I find it ironic that Crosby fans have the temerity to whine about another player being overhyped.

How many Crosby fan-boys were gabbing about how Ovechkin (21 at the time) would never match/surpass the greatness that is Crosby's 06/07 season this time last year? It was more or less the consensus around here.

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04-10-2008, 04:28 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Hockey66 View Post
Yes, and 1, maybe 2 people brought up Crosby's 120 point season.

Crosby was playing with what would be 3rd liners the majority of last season, minus a few games/the PP with Malkin.

They both had 6 more points than the next player, but Crosby had 8 more total.

They both brought teams that were pretty much useless the previous season into the playoffs.

Ovechkin scored a lot of goals, but to say "OMGZ most dominent seazon evar!!1 crozbie pwnage!!" is ridiculous when they've had comparable seasons performance wise in back to back years. Plus Ovechkin is 2 years older, when is a HUGE gap when you're that young.

And this is coming from an Ovechkin fan, I just can't stand the blatant homerism on this board and how everybody thinks whoever is performing best at that moment is the best player in the league. Malkin went on a huge tear earlier in the season and there were 1000's of posts on how Malkin is better than Crosby and Ovechkin.
Crosby's 120p is no match for AO's 65g 112p. And Sid was on much worse pace this season. AO is number one in the world right now, he dominated the league this year. Crosby must play much better in 08/09, better than he ever played just to match this year Ovy's greatness. Stop living in the past and face the reality. There is also Malkin and who knows what Stamkos is capable of.

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04-10-2008, 05:01 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
I find it ironic that Crosby fans have the temerity to whine about another player being overhyped.

How many Crosby fan-boys were gabbing about how Ovechkin (21 at the time) would never match/surpass the greatness that is Crosby's 06/07 season this time last year? It was more or less the consensus around here.
Exactly, this "Overhyped player" once lost out on rookie of the month to Crosby despite the fact that Crosby had poorer statistics in every single statistical category.

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04-10-2008, 05:40 PM
  #110
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What surprises me here is that no one has mentioned that Ovechkin does make the players around him better. It seems to be something that is lost just because he is better at scoring goals than setting them up.

In the two seasons in Calgary right before he came to Washington, Chris Clark averaged 10 goals a season on about 14 minutes of ice time a game. In his first season with Ovechkin, Clark doubled that total to 20 while averaging only about a minute more of ice time per game (and playing in a couple fewer games), and in his second, he hit 30 on 18 minutes of ice time a game.

Dainius Zubrus' 1 3/4 seasons playing alongside Ovechkin were also his career bests in points and PPG.

I agree that Ovechkin is definitely a better goal scorer than playmaker, and that Crosby is a better playmaker than Ovechkin, but those who think that Ovechkin is a one-dimensional goal scorer who doesn't make his teammates better really aren't paying enough attention.

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04-10-2008, 06:03 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Shu View Post
Crosby is nowhere near Ovechkin, at least this season. Many of you fail to realise, that 1 goal = about 1.6 assists. Just because passer passes a lot, it doesnt make him a better player, all average passers make better points than average scorers, it is not because they are all better, it is because secondary assists inflate stats.
Actually, Crosby and Ovechkin pick up about the same number of secondary assists. If you want to remove those, it will only separate guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin from the pack, not separate one from the other two.

Beyond that, 1G=1.6A is horrible logic. What if they took away the second assist? Would assists be work more than goals because there's less than 1 assist per goal?

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04-10-2008, 06:04 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Muscle Bob View Post
Crosby this season: was injured most of the season.

Conclusion: Crosby > Ovechkin.
False.

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Old
04-10-2008, 06:05 PM
  #113
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I'm not saying Ovechkin is overhyped, nor that Crosby is better.

I just find it disgusting how after one great season HF boards goes nuts, saying Ovechkin is the best in the world hands down and Crosby is going to have to improve greatly to catch him.

If one season Crosby puts up 45/95 for a 140 point season and Ovechkin only puts up 100-110, there will be 453 threads on how Crosby is the best in the world, next Gretzky, Ovechkin is no match.

And I'll be back arguing Ovechkin's case.

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Old
04-10-2008, 06:24 PM
  #114
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Adjusting for the average NHL goals per game in a given season, Ovechkin had the third highest total ever this year. Ahead of Gretzky's 92.

But I'm not a stats guy. I like to go to the tape, and no one jumps off the screen in sports like Ovechkin. He's the most exciting guy in sports. I don't understand how someone can like hockey and not be buying what Ovechkin is selling.

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04-10-2008, 06:34 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by cleaver View Post
Adjusting for the average NHL goals per game in a given season, Ovechkin had the third highest total ever this year. Ahead of Gretzky's 92.

But I'm not a stats guy. I like to go to the tape, and no one jumps off the screen in sports like Ovechkin. He's the most exciting guy in sports. I don't understand how someone can like hockey and not be buying what Ovechkin is selling.
Yeah, he's the man. By far the most exciting person in sports and my favourite current player, possibly ever. (I'm still a Bure fanboi though).

All I'm sayin' is that it's ridiculous to say AO is leaps and bounds ahead of Crosby, when any person who has ever played hockey/understands sports at all knows that they're on a completely even level and only time will tell who prevails, if either do.

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04-11-2008, 01:33 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey66 View Post
I just find it disgusting how after one great season HF boards goes nuts, saying Ovechkin is the best in the world hands down and Crosby is going to have to improve greatly to catch him.

If one season Crosby puts up 45/95 for a 140 point season and Ovechkin only puts up 100-110, there will be 453 threads on how Crosby is the best in the world, next Gretzky, Ovechkin is no match.
i don't think the HF boards are going nuts over Ovechkin -- in fact half the posts in this single thread about him are anti-Ovechkin.

In starting this, I was just trying to point out how many categories Ovechkin led or was near the top in. Last year, Crosby carried the crown of Best Player In The World. This year Ovechkin carries it. Next year, who knows?

and the other thing -- i don't remember Crosby dominating last year in every category the way Ovechkin has this year. That was sort of the point -- how unusual it is for one player to dominate virtually every measurement for a forward.

and as i also said earlier, i hope we CAN write a thread like this for Crosby at the end of next year. But he already had a Hart/Pearson/Art Ross year last year. this year was Ovechkin's, and it's just mindblowing HOW dominant he was.

and that "worst to first" in half a season is a nice Capper!

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04-11-2008, 10:13 AM
  #117
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Quick look at stats from last season has Crosby leading the league in 3 categories that I can find. Points(120), Powerplay Assists(48), and Powerplay Points(61).

How exactly was that dominant?

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04-11-2008, 11:33 AM
  #118
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Well they both have a trophy sweep except Ovechkin owns 2 more trophies than the Cros.


Great talents. Excited for next season.


In terms of Malkin, I find it kind of weird how Crosby's presence in the lineup hinders Malkin slightly but when he isnt in the lineup Malkin is an absolute beast.

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04-11-2008, 12:04 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foy View Post
Exactly, this "Overhyped player" once lost out on rookie of the month to Crosby despite the fact that Crosby had poorer statistics in every single statistical category.
Oh my christ, do these vendettas know no end???? Youre seriously dragging up a monthly award from 2 years ago? Given by an organization run by a guy who doesnt even like the sport? Cmon


Why cant people (read: not just Capts fans) just be happy with a franchise player and his obvious and widely acknowledged talents? Why is it always about the fact that he is better than a player he already beat once for RoY?


So one gets more hype in the press and on tv. Why should that matter to real fans of the game which, I would venture to say, most people here are. When i watch hockey, I am cognisant that I probably know more about the sport than the average viewer turning in. I dislike Kobe bryant, and I think people like Bill Walton slurping him like a hotel clerk is annoying, but im not about to try and degrade his statistical achievements to convince people that no, in fact, he actually blows and is not a future HoFer


Its sad that a thread like this cant even be created with out the endless back and forth spiraling into what it does: a slagfest of one player and a shrine to the other. Sometimes I think their respective fanboys (read: NOT CAPS FANS) enjoy fighting on the internet far more than the sport of hockey


I am a Pens fan who lives in DC so I get the pleasure of watching both these players. I know which one was the best this year. I knew which one was the better one last year. But I have the intelligence to realize that doesnt mean the other was anything but a superstar and a great, great thing for the sport of hockey



edit: and just for the purposes of clarity, I realize the poster I quoted is definately not a fan boy


Last edited by Extra Texture: 04-11-2008 at 12:09 PM.
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Old
04-11-2008, 01:00 PM
  #120
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Great post Extra!


I hope Crosby or Ove dont develop a flock of haters like Kobe currently has.

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04-11-2008, 01:11 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Hockey66 View Post
Yeah, he's the man. By far the most exciting person in sports and my favourite current player, possibly ever. (I'm still a Bure fanboi though).

All I'm sayin' is that it's ridiculous to say AO is leaps and bounds ahead of Crosby, when any person who has ever played hockey/understands sports at all knows that they're on a completely even level and only time will tell who prevails, if either do.
LeBron James?

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04-11-2008, 01:14 PM
  #122
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Do most of Crosby's assists really setup goals? I don't know, as I haven't watched enough of his games to know. But that's not what I've seen from him in the ~20 or so games that I've watched him play. He'll pass to another player up top, such as Gonchar, and they'll make a great slapshot and score directly, or on a deflection. Or he'll pass to a player up top, they'll shoot it, and then another player will knock in the rebound. There's nothing special about that, and I don't really see how you can equate those assists to a scoring chance and a goal that a player created on their own.
So you're talking exclusively about powerplay assists here? I wonder why no one else makes plays like that, they sound kind of effective.

Keeping it simple is what the powerplay is all about.

If you in fact think that's how most of his assist total happens, watch him more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LannysStach View Post
and the other thing -- i don't remember Crosby dominating last year in every category the way Ovechkin has this year. That was sort of the point -- how unusual it is for one player to dominate virtually every measurement for a forward.
Not every category, but the one that matters the most when talking about forwards; Crosby had 95 points in 56 games(1.70 PPG, 139-point pace) when the second guy was at about 80 points in 60 games(109-point pace). Then he hit a minor slump before playing the final month of the season injured. He still finished 0.13 ahead of everyone else in PPG, and 0.40 ahead of Ovechkin. This season Ovy beat Crosby who was second(not getting into Forsberg and his notorious 9 games) by 0.01, or in other words less than a point over 82 games.

If you don't consider age, I think Ovechkin's 07-08 was better, but to me doing what Crosby did at 19 is more impressive.

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04-11-2008, 03:31 PM
  #123
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LeBron James?
You're not really considering the NBA a sport are you? Last time I went to a game I left at the start of the third quarter. We were going to leave at halftime, but the mascot dunking off a trampoline was more entertaining than the game itself.

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04-11-2008, 05:54 PM
  #124
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LeBron James?
Basketball? Hah. Haha.

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04-11-2008, 06:12 PM
  #125
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Has anyone noticed that Crosby's PPG this season was almost identical to Ovechkin's? And that he outplayed him last year?

Now, I hate that everything about these two guys becomes Crosby vs Ovechkin (I, personally, can enjoy watching them both without feeling its taking away from the other) but to say stuff like 'Ovechkin dominated like no one since Lemieux' and 'Ovechkin is clearly the better player now' and 'Crosby is really going to have to play hard next year to catch up' (paraphrasing from this thread) is pretty silly. All he did this season (so far) that Crosby didn't was stay healthy.
Has anyone noticed how Crosby's offensive game is so much more unbalanced? 84 assists to 34 goals. In almost all cases a goal is much harder to get than an assist.

Example: Ander Errorickson dropped the puck behind Kipper, for Tanguay to pick up. Tanguay skates up the ice, circles and beats the goalie shortside(all the while Error is getting a line change) Errorickson gets an assits still.

I know there are some passes that hit the tape right on the goal line for an easy tap in, but generally speaking goals are much harder to come by.

You can get a goal without an assist, but not an assist without a goal

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