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Ovechkin's #1s this season

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Old
04-12-2008, 12:43 AM
  #126
rh71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dicky113 View Post
Ovechkin is great, but Crosby is better. If Crosby had of stayed healthy he would have beaten Ovechkin in points by a wide margin.
Impressive set of secondary assists again tonight for Sid.


Last edited by rh71: 04-12-2008 at 12:03 PM.
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04-12-2008, 01:02 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by BruinsFan4 View Post
LeBron James?
I'd rather watch Ovechkin than Lebron. The only guy strictly in terms of entertainment that's in Ovechkin's class is Tiger Woods, but watching golf isn't the same as watching a team sport. Not that I don't watch golf, but it's inherently less entertaining than hockey, football, and basketball.

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04-12-2008, 01:10 AM
  #128
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LeBron James?

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04-12-2008, 01:52 AM
  #129
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Half the stats you quote are basically meaningless.

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04-12-2008, 08:15 AM
  #130
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My favorite stat listed in this whole thing is OV taking his team from 15th to 3rd in the conference. Only 3rd seed, not 3rd in the conference.

Not to take anything away from OV. Both are great players. But making up stats that help your argument is pretty pathetic.

I think Crosby has more of his own teeth than OV. +1 for Sid.

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04-12-2008, 08:33 AM
  #131
Jek McPorkins
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Originally Posted by SuburbanRhythm View Post
My favorite stat listed in this whole thing is OV taking his team from 15th to 3rd in the conference. Only 3rd seed, not 3rd in the conference.

Not to take anything away from OV. Both are great players. But making up stats that help your argument is pretty pathetic.

I think Crosby has more of his own teeth than OV. +1 for Sid.
You're right. But when only 5 points separate 3rd place from 8th? Small potatoes.

OV was a giant among men this season. If anyone can beat Gretzky's record for goals, it's OV. Best pure goal scorer we've seen in a very long time.

He singlehandedly won my hockey pool for me, and made my Center Ice subscription well worth the $200. I'm not one to jump on a bandwagon (it's Oilers or nothing for me), but I've seen 82 solid efforts from OV this year. Nobody else comes close.

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04-12-2008, 08:34 AM
  #132
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"Half the stats you quote are basically meaningless."

i hope & assume you're referring to the padding crosby what-if stats.

when it got to the 3rd period last night and the Caps needed goals, I was actually thinking about the stats listed at the start of the thread. Specifically . . .

Led the NHL in game-winning goals (11).

Led the NHL in lead-changing goals (30).

Led the league in game-winning goals in the third period (5).

Led the league in third period goals overall (26).

Led the NHL in late-game pressure goals with 29 (defined by the league as overtime or third period goals when the score differential is 2 or less goals). And naturally he led the league in overall late-game pressure points with 44.

as those numbers show, all season long he was the most clutch player in the league -- when it mattered -- and sure enough, with the game tied in the 3rd, the league's best late-game goal scorer steals it from one Flyer, then steals it from a second, then beats the goalie for the game-winner . . . and all of course in his very first playoff game.

it's just so funny how all the past season's league-leading numbers played out in microcosm in last night's game.

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04-12-2008, 08:43 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanRhythm View Post
My favorite stat listed in this whole thing is OV taking his team from 15th to 3rd in the conference. Only 3rd seed, not 3rd in the conference.
Making up stats that help your argument is pretty pathetic.
There's no "made up" stat in the opening post of the thread. Everything there comes from the NHL itself, and there's not a number or category that's wrong or "made up".

the fact that he led his team from the basement at the mid-point of the season to win his division title by the end -- and how that's never been done before in the entire history of the league -- is one of the most amazing of his many accomplishments this season. i know it's a team effort, but rarely is a team led so clearly by one player as the Caps are by Ovechkin.

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04-12-2008, 08:54 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Muscle Bob View Post
Of course, he had more games to level it up while Crosby didn't have many games to do this, in the other case he would have had around 2PPG or so. Crosby's game was outstanding, I clearly see him getting minimum 5 awards if not this injure..
this logic is embarrasingly bad

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04-12-2008, 11:39 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Special Ed 16 View Post
You're right. But when only 5 points separate 3rd place from 8th? Small potatoes.

OV was a giant among men this season. If anyone can beat Gretzky's record for goals, it's OV. Best pure goal scorer we've seen in a very long time.

He singlehandedly won my hockey pool for me, and made my Center Ice subscription well worth the $200. I'm not one to jump on a bandwagon (it's Oilers or nothing for me), but I've seen 82 solid efforts from OV this year. Nobody else comes close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LannysStach View Post
There's no "made up" stat in the opening post of the thread. Everything there comes from the NHL itself, and there's not a number or category that's wrong or "made up".

the fact that he led his team from the basement at the mid-point of the season to win his division title by the end -- and how that's never been done before in the entire history of the league -- is one of the most amazing of his many accomplishments this season. i know it's a team effort, but rarely is a team led so clearly by one player as the Caps are by Ovechkin.
Repeat, he did not lead his team to 3rd place in the conference. Last I looked, NJ's 99 points ranked 3rd in the conference. Playoff seeding doesn't equal conference finish. See other post above. Not saying it's not close. But the Caps total of 94 is equal to that of the 7th and 8th seeded teams.

So I'll post a new stat here that says OV led his team to a tie for the final playoff spot. That's true too.

Again, not saying he's not a fabulous player. But making up crap to prove your point...I can make up crap to make it seem not so spectacular.

He won the Art Ross and Richard...and soon to follow the Hart and Pearson. No need for the rest.

By the way, OV's 14.6% shooting % looks really weak next to Malkin

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04-12-2008, 11:44 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanMalison View Post
this logic is embarrasingly bad
The talent of such great player as Crosby can not be valued by some logic.


Last edited by Muscle Bob: 04-13-2008 at 04:37 AM.
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04-12-2008, 12:12 PM
  #137
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lol muscle bob making jokes in this thread some are good some not

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04-12-2008, 01:52 PM
  #138
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[QUOTE=SuburbanRhythm;13608110]Repeat, he did not lead his team to 3rd place in the conference. Last I looked, NJ's 99 points ranked 3rd in the conference. Playoff seeding doesn't equal conference finish. See other post above. Not saying it's not close. But the Caps total of 94 is equal to that of the 7th and 8th seeded teams.

So I'll post a new stat here that says OV led his team to a tie for the final playoff spot. That's true too.

Again, not saying he's not a fabulous player. But making up crap to prove your point...I can make up crap to make it seem not so spectacular.

He won the Art Ross and Richard...and soon to follow the Hart and Pearson. No need for the rest
.[QUOTE]


are you just TRYING to be argumentative? or do you really not know how the NHL works?

maybe in the private imaginary fantasy world that only you live in, you have the Capitals finishing in 287th place, just behind Indianapolis Racers -- whatever you want to make up, it might be worthy a long psychiatrist's meeting, but in the real world that these threads exist and that the NHL operates in, the Capitals won their Division and finished 3rd in the Eastern Conference. see the real world here:


http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=p...sPage&type=CON

you evidently have your own way of keeping score, but i think for clarity, and if it's all right with you, the rest of us will just stick with the NHL's system of counting points. You can go ahead and create your own imaginary league -- you can even name it after yourself -- then after you write a new rulebook for it, and make up a new history of winner and losers -- then launch the site and let us know and maybe we'll all stop following the NHL and go with your new made-up system.

But until then, I'm sticking with the NHL. And in that real world, Washington were 5th in their Division and 15th in their conference on Dec. 30th, and were first in their Division and 3rd in their conference on April 6th.

and p.s. in the real world history of the NHL, no other team, not one led by the real Wayne Gretzky nor by the real Gordie Howe nor any other player was ever in last place in their Division at the midway-point of the season and then in 1st place at the end. Maybe in your imaginary world this has happened a lot, but never in the history of the National Hockey League, which started in real-world 1917, has a team gone from worst to first in half a season.

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04-12-2008, 02:02 PM
  #139
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when a guy leads the NHL in goals he is obviously likely to lead the NHL in "adjective" goals. seriously.

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04-12-2008, 02:25 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Hemsky is a gangsta View Post
when a guy leads the NHL in goals he is obviously likely to lead the NHL in "adjective" goals. seriously.
maybe true if you go back to the Gretzky era, but this is NOT true over say the last ten years when there's been a Rocket Richard trophy. Last year, Lecav only squeaked out first place by 2 goals; before that Cheechoo, certainly not a dominant Hart Trophy player; and before that it was a 3-way tie for most-goals. you really have to go back a long way in history to find one player who dominated in as many categories as Ovechkin did this year.

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04-12-2008, 02:37 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by mitchdisaster View Post
Quick look at stats from last season has Crosby leading the league in 3 categories that I can find. Points(120), Powerplay Assists(48), and Powerplay Points(61).

How exactly was that dominant?
He also led in secondary assists last season.
These playoffs he is a lock to win in this category, leads with 4 now

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04-12-2008, 07:24 PM
  #142
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[QUOTE=LannysStach;13609770][QUOTE=SuburbanRhythm;13608110]Repeat, he did not lead his team to 3rd place in the conference. Last I looked, NJ's 99 points ranked 3rd in the conference. Playoff seeding doesn't equal conference finish. See other post above. Not saying it's not close. But the Caps total of 94 is equal to that of the 7th and 8th seeded teams.

So I'll post a new stat here that says OV led his team to a tie for the final playoff spot. That's true too.

Again, not saying he's not a fabulous player. But making up crap to prove your point...I can make up crap to make it seem not so spectacular.

He won the Art Ross and Richard...and soon to follow the Hart and Pearson. No need for the rest
.
Quote:


are you just TRYING to be argumentative? or do you really not know how the NHL works?

maybe in the private imaginary fantasy world that only you live in, you have the Capitals finishing in 287th place, just behind Indianapolis Racers -- whatever you want to make up, it might be worthy a long psychiatrist's meeting, but in the real world that these threads exist and that the NHL operates in, the Capitals won their Division and finished 3rd in the Eastern Conference. see the real world here:


http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=p...sPage&type=CON

you evidently have your own way of keeping score, but i think for clarity, and if it's all right with you, the rest of us will just stick with the NHL's system of counting points. You can go ahead and create your own imaginary league -- you can even name it after yourself -- then after you write a new rulebook for it, and make up a new history of winner and losers -- then launch the site and let us know and maybe we'll all stop following the NHL and go with your new made-up system.

But until then, I'm sticking with the NHL. And in that real world, Washington were 5th in their Division and 15th in their conference on Dec. 30th, and were first in their Division and 3rd in their conference on April 6th.

and p.s. in the real world history of the NHL, no other team, not one led by the real Wayne Gretzky nor by the real Gordie Howe nor any other player was ever in last place in their Division at the midway-point of the season and then in 1st place at the end. Maybe in your imaginary world this has happened a lot, but never in the history of the National Hockey League, which started in real-world 1917, has a team gone from worst to first in half a season.

And after all of that, 3rd seed still does not equal 3rd best record in the conference. I guess had they finished with 92 points, they'd have been 4th then?

If you look around here, I am hardly the first person to question whether winning a division with less points than the other playoffs qualifiers makes you deserving of the 3rd seed.

By your logic, the Caps finished 6th for the President's Trophy...or is that an award I am making up in my imaginary league too?


Last edited by SuburbanRhythm: 04-12-2008 at 07:31 PM.
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04-12-2008, 08:54 PM
  #143
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some people around here also think there should be 3 points awarded for a win, or that there shouldn't be an instigator penalty, or there shouldn't be shoot-outs -- but that doesn't make any of it so.

just because you don't think Washington finished third in their Conference doesn't make it reality. You can argue this for the rest of your life, but it's never going to change the results of the 07/08 NHL season -- it'll be the same in the record books long after we've both gone to the big rink in the sky.

According to the league you are writing about and watching and following, the Caps finished third in the Eastern Conference. if you don't like that, write the league a letter. But no matter how much you complain about it today or tomorrow, it doesn't change the fact that the Caps won their Division and finished 3rd.

And Alexander Ovechkin was argueably the biggest reason that happened, with a primary assist by coach Boudreau, and perhaps a secondary assist by Cristobal Huet.


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04-12-2008, 09:39 PM
  #144
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So again, they would rank 6th in terms of the Presidents Trophy? You can keep telling me they finished 3rd in their conference, and I'll keep telling you they got the 3rd seed, but those are two different things.

Based on the way the Presidents Trophy is awarded, they did not finish 6th overall, or 3rd in the East.

You can say they went from last to 1st in their division...that will fit much better with your theme anyway. That 3rd sticks out like a sore thumb.

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04-12-2008, 09:58 PM
  #145
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what is it that's bugging you?

why do you keep going on about this? are you a big fan of the 4th or 5th or 6th place team, and you feel you're robbed of some prestige by not finishing one position higher? i don't get why you're arguing against the way the league determines its standings?

There's 2 Conferences, the league's been doing this for 10 years, have you raised a stink every time the 3rd place team had less points than the 4th place? Are you also complaining on the Minnesota boards about them finishing ahead of Anaheim this year? The league has been doing this for at least a decade -- why all of a sudden do you think it doesn't count?

and fyi: the league does not rank the teams from 2 to 30 for the Presidents Trophy. There is no 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. rankings for that (but there IS for the Divisions and Conferences, you see) -- just like you can't say someone came in 3rd or 6th or whatever in the Stanley Cup race. One team wins the trophy, there's no silver or bronze medals in the NHL for the Stanley Cup nor for the President's Trophy. Open any NHL stats type book -- it's all pretty clearly laid out there.

You're just arguing against the rules the league runs itself by -- and the question is -- why?

First you don't want to acknowledge the Caps 3rd place, but then you DO want to come up with a new category that the league doesn't recognize, of ranking non-President's Trophy winners. What bug is up your butt that's causing you to concoct a new solar system just because you don't like the order of the planets?


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04-12-2008, 10:08 PM
  #146
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The NHL clearly considers the Caps the third best team in the conference, because New Jersey, NY Rangers, Philadelphia, Ottawa, and Boston all pick ahead of them in the 2008 draft.

2008 Draft Order
  1. Tampa Bay
  2. Los Angeles
  3. Atlanta
  4. St. Louis
  5. NY Islanders
  6. Columbus
  7. Toronto
  8. Phoenix
  9. Nashville (from Florida)
  10. Vancouver
  11. Chicago
  12. Anaheim (from Edmonton)
  13. Buffalo
  14. Carolina
    --------------
  15. Nashville
  16. Boston
  17. Calgary
  18. Ottawa
  19. Philadelphia
  20. Columbus (from Colorado)
  21. NY Rangers
  22. Los Angeles (from Dallas)
  23. New Jersey
  24. Edmonton (from Anaheim)
  25. Washington
  26. Minnesota
  27. Atlanta (from Pittsburgh)
  28. Montreal
  29. Buffalo (from San Jose)
  30. Detroit

Now personally, I don't agree with assigning the top team in each conference one of the top three seeds, and one of the last six draft picks. But that's what you get with current NHL rules.

Had Carolina won their last game, Washington would be the #7 seed in the playoffs with the ~#18 pick.

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04-12-2008, 10:32 PM
  #147
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Quote:
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personally, I don't agree with assigning the top team in each conference one of the top three seeds, and one of the last six draft picks. But that's what you get with current NHL rules.

Had Carolina won their last game, Washington would be the #7 seed in the playoffs with the ~#18 pick.
thanks for the reality-based postage, i was gettin worried there.

and hilarious factoid that about the 18th pick! So, it's actually a DISadvantage to win your Division or Conference re: the draft. funny. But, just shows how important the league considers it.

and i agree, the rules are a little wacky. but compared to say the U.S. primary, this makes TONS of sense! This seems completely fair & simple compared to the Texas prima-caucus! Talk about a crazy way to come up with the President's Trophy winner!

(and just a to the brothers from the poligeek page!)

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04-21-2008, 09:25 PM
  #148
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tonight's 2-goal 3rd period

Quote:
Originally Posted by LannysStach View Post
Led the NHL in game-winning goals (11).

Led the NHL in lead-changing goals (30).

Led the NHL in "late-game pressure goals" with 29 (defined by the league as overtime or third period goals when the score differential is 2 or less goals).
And naturally led the league in late-game pressure points as well with 44.

Led the league in game-winning goals in the third period (5).

Led the league in third period goals overall (26).

Led the NHL in points in the last month of the season -- the final playoff push for all teams & players -- with 31 points; and had 10 multi-point games in his final 16.
I was thinking about these numbers tonight. And how someone was dissing them by saying, "Well, the goals leader probably led in all the goal categories."

i was looking at last season's end-of-season stat final from THN, and how all those important goal stats had totally different players in the top 5 of each -- the go-ahead goal, tying goal, winning goal, 3rd period goal, PP, every measure you can think of, and it's totally different players in the top 5 or more. No one player came close to dominating the league.

And although OV led in virtually every catagery this year, what interested me most was all his late-game numbers. And how that's also tied to leadership. The players don't release the secrets of the leadership that happens behind closed doors, but what can all see is what happens on the ice.

And how it was his single-handed effort on the GWG in game 1 -- it's Rocket Richard-like. He not only scores, but scores when it matters. And metaphorically carries the team on his back.

and the TSN rink-side voice was mentioning the fire in his eyes whenever he saw the puck -- and it was Richard's eyes that everyone who saw him play talked about. i'm not saying he's as good as the Rocket -- just that there's a similarity. (on this classic Montreal playoff night! )

there's an on-the-line third-period jazz with this kid. And it played out in the reg season stats, and now in the playoffs. It's pretty remarkable.

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04-21-2008, 09:35 PM
  #149
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i have the man-crush on him..

wish he didn't sign that long contract

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04-21-2008, 09:36 PM
  #150
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I want to add that I think Backstrom has proven to those who said his points were a product of Ovechkin in these past few games. He's just a playmaker period. He is shooting more in the playoffs, and he has the goals to show for it.

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