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GR-Martin Did Not Go To Rochester as Reported

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Old
04-12-2008, 04:59 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by hoax15 View Post
When did he ever say that he didn't? Just because he is taking a long time to consider does NOT mean that he doesn't want to be here. If he didn't want to be here he would have been gone a long time ago! The reason why he is taking a while is because Coaching has always been his #1 thing he wanted to do and he wants to make sure that he wants to be a GM. Thats it.
Everywere I read there saying JM wants to coach more than GM. It gives the impression that he doesnt want to GM at all

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04-12-2008, 05:39 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
Everywere I read there saying JM wants to coach more than GM. It gives the impression that he doesnt want to GM at all
He has coached his entire life basically, thats why he wants to coach more than GM.

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04-12-2008, 05:47 PM
  #28
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Im not really turning on him. Id like him to stay here as GM, but if his heart is in coaching and not in to being the Panthers GM, then its best we just part ways.
your tone was a bit harsh, pb. he worked pretty damn hard for this organization regardless of how you felt about the job he did. he deserves a little time to think about this decision. again, cohen simply should not have met with the fans until this was ironed out. simple as that.

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04-12-2008, 05:53 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by hoax15 View Post
Cohen went on the panthers board and said the following:



Someone asked:
Do you think JM will take the job?
and
Do you care who JM hires as coach?

And he responded:


So the media is once again wrong. You guys can stop overreacting about Cohen now.
i overreacted to the first reports but lets be honest - he hasn't done much to instill confidence in his handling of these issues. there's always some kind of controversy here. notice how you don't see a lot of these types of dramatic episodes with successful franchises? ever stop to ask yourself why?

in the end, i stand by everything i said, even if (as it appears) i'm standing alone. hockey operations decisions have been handled and communicated to the press/fans extremely poorly since cohen's been here. he could have easily avoided all this.

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04-12-2008, 05:54 PM
  #30
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i overreacted to the first reports but lets be honest - he hasn't done much to instill confidence in his handling of these issues. there's always some kind of controversy here. notice how you don't see a lot of these types of dramatic episodes with successful franchises? ever stop to ask yourself why?

in the end, i stand by everything i said, even if (as it appears) i'm standing alone. hockey operations decisions have been handled and communicated to the press/fans extremely poorly since cohen's been here. he could have easily avoided all this.
Whenever a franchise is struggling to become good there is always talk about teams being horrible and stuff like that. Hell look at Ottawa, Paddock was a HORRIBLE coach but nobody said ANYTHING until Ottawa started doing bad. Its the way the media and blame game works.

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04-12-2008, 05:59 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
i overreacted to the first reports but lets be honest - he hasn't done much to instill confidence in his handling of these issues. there's always some kind of controversy here. notice how you don't see a lot of these types of dramatic episodes with successful franchises? ever stop to ask yourself why?

in the end, i stand by everything i said, even if (as it appears) i'm standing alone. hockey operations decisions have been handled and communicated to the press/fans extremely poorly since cohen's been here. he could have easily avoided all this.
Maybe thats why he is speaking out now. I mean look what Brian Biggane wrote. How many other times has he written stupid stuff like that and we all swallowed it whole. We just didnt know better. Im glad he came out and set the record straight. Maybe thats what we need to realize that some of this stuff is just media BS and we all took it as the truth.
Does Biggane look like an idiot or what?

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04-12-2008, 06:06 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
your tone was a bit harsh, pb. he worked pretty damn hard for this organization regardless of how you felt about the job he did. he deserves a little time to think about this decision. again, cohen simply should not have met with the fans until this was ironed out. simple as that.
Ill agree with you on that. And if I came off harsh, well it has nothing to do with Martin or what he has done for this organization. You can take it as speaking about soneone in general. I dont mind if the man takes time to decide what he wants to do, or to see what options are out there. I just want someone here who wants to be the GM here, and help contribute to its rise. I dont want someone who is here because they need the money because they have bills to pay, as GR mentioned in his blog.

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04-12-2008, 06:14 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
your tone was a bit harsh, pb. he worked pretty damn hard for this organization regardless of how you felt about the job he did. he deserves a little time to think about this decision. again, cohen simply should not have met with the fans until this was ironed out. simple as that.

According to Darsys notes, he said the following. reported on the other board.

"Cohen agreed something needed to change and said he was talking with Jacques Martin to give him time to decide. He also said the Coach and General Manager job would be separated for next season. It sounded like Jacques Martin was going to keep one of his two jobs."

Give it a rest. Its splitting hairs. What he said was 100% truthful.

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04-12-2008, 06:17 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by hoax15 View Post
Whenever a franchise is struggling to become good there is always talk about teams being horrible and stuff like that. Hell look at Ottawa, Paddock was a HORRIBLE coach but nobody said ANYTHING until Ottawa started doing bad. Its the way the media and blame game works.
if he was a horrible coach, how'd they do so well early on? do you realize what it takes to get the opportunity to coach in the nhl??? c'mon man. horrible is not the right choice of words. it just didn't work out. maybe he was overmatched by the job or maybe it just wasn't a good fit but generally speaking, you don't get to that level if you're a horrible coach.

more to the point, fans will always want change when something doesn't appear (carefully chosen words) to be working. columnists of little character (if the shoe fits, biggane, wear it) will always try to needle organizations and plant rumors, as will opponents. you're always going to be up against it. i realize that. there are ways to mitigate these types of situations and solid, well run franchises usually do and avoid this kind of lingering controversy, the kind that affects everyone from the trainers to the owner. we seem to step in it EVERY SINGLE year. what's the common thread? that's right - cohen.

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Originally Posted by Booth10 View Post
Maybe thats why he is speaking out now. I mean look what Brian Biggane wrote. How many other times has he written stupid stuff like that and we all swallowed it whole. We just didnt know better. Im glad he came out and set the record straight. Maybe thats what we need to realize that some of this stuff is just media BS and we all took it as the truth.
Does Biggane look like an idiot or what?
my point is that it's too late now! he's in firefighting mode. damage has already been done to this franshise's poor image. is it not an act of desperation to post on your club's web site to deny stuff like this??? it needs to be handled better from top to bottom, start to finish. i'll repeat myself - this could have easily been avoided.

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04-12-2008, 06:29 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Booth10 View Post
According to Darsys notes, he said the following. reported on the other board.

"Cohen agreed something needed to change and said he was talking with Jacques Martin to give him time to decide. He also said the Coach and General Manager job would be separated for next season. It sounded like Jacques Martin was going to keep one of his two jobs."

Give it a rest. Its splitting hairs. What he said was 100% truthful.
it's not splitting hairs. you're missing my point. it wasn't whether or not it was truthful, it was that the situation was completely up in the air with rumors swirling. that's not the time to meet with a rabid fan base with no answers in hand, stirring up more by cutting down your chief hockey person and star player. he should not have met with the fans and stirred all this up until he knew what JM's decision was and there was a plan on how to move forward. then you meet the fans and press and put everything out there in a professional manner. this is amateur hour. and we see this again and again...

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04-12-2008, 06:52 PM
  #36
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hey - i'm putting stuff out there and nobody's refuting the real heart of what i'm saying. in fact, one of the people who was at the meeting (pb1300) just agreed with me. is this not a repetitive pattern from ownership? and again, it's not necessarily about what people at the meeting did or didn't hear, it's about all the crap that ensued which was embarassing for the franchise and left cohen desperately putting out fires.


Last edited by Panthers Rock: 04-13-2008 at 01:52 PM. Reason: quoted flaming post, responded
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04-12-2008, 07:40 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Ill agree with you on that. And if I came off harsh, well it has nothing to do with Martin or what he has done for this organization. You can take it as speaking about soneone in general. I dont mind if the man takes time to decide what he wants to do, or to see what options are out there. I just want someone here who wants to be the GM here, and help contribute to its rise. I dont want someone who is here because they need the money because they have bills to pay, as GR mentioned in his blog.
I don't think he meant it the way you're taking it. He wants to coach, first and foremost, and that option has been taken away from him here. So he might be putting the feelers out to see if there might be an opportunity for him to coach somewhere else next year. That doesn't mean he doesn't want to be here. But he can't coach here. If it doesn't seem that he'll get a head coach position somewhere, I'm sure he'll be more than happy to return here as GM. I can't blame the guy for pursuing his true passion.

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04-12-2008, 07:42 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
hey - i'm putting stuff out there and nobody's refuting the real heart of what i'm saying. in fact, one of the people who was at the meeting (pb1300) just agreed with me. is this not a repetitive pattern from ownership? and again, it's not necessarily about what people at the meeting did or didn't hear, it's about all the crap that ensued which was embarassing for the franchise and left cohen desperately putting out fires.
I'm with you. We always come off looking like a mickey mouse organization. Is it alll a coincidence? I don't think so.


Last edited by Panthers Rock: 04-13-2008 at 01:53 PM. Reason: removal of previous flame response quoted
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04-12-2008, 08:01 PM
  #39
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I'm with you. We always come off looking like a mickey mouse organization. Is it alll a coincidence? I don't think so.
thanks, mb

seriously folks, i'm not questioning cohen's dedication to building a winner, his love of the team or of the fans (or even of the game). much like i didn't question that with h. wayne. it was clear he was/is devoted to the dolphins and lives and dies with them. and wayne, just like cohen, has *tried* to do the right thing time and time again. eventually, wayne got smaht (or maybe lucky, with parcells out there) and realized that HE was a major part of the problem. it's time for cohen to do the same.

yes, i have a problem with some of the things he said, given the amorphous state of affairs. in the bigger picture, though, i have a problem with how these types of things continue to be handled. cohen doesn't have the experience or the knowledge to deal with it and despite the fact the fans may be happy right now (they got what they wanted), this is really just a vicious cycle and until cohen removes himself from the process, it's going to continue. you can already see the writing on the wall. others have pointed this out.

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04-12-2008, 08:36 PM
  #40
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my point is that it's too late now! he's in firefighting mode. damage has already been done to this franshise's poor image. is it not an act of desperation to post on your club's web site to deny stuff like this??? it needs to be handled better from top to bottom, start to finish. i'll repeat myself - this could have easily been avoided.
If Cohen would have waited for everything to be in place before having a meeting to simply answer fans questions, writers would have still been writing crappy rumor stories until the meeting took place, just like they did at the trade deadline. That happens to every team no matter what.

I honestly don't see why you're making such a big deal over this. "Damage has already been done?" Give me a break. This is a hockey team, not a political campaign, and we're probably the only people who read Brian Biggane's terrible articles anyway. Bottom line is that the guy wanted to talk to his team's fans, and he did. There's nothing wrong in doing that.

edit: lol, Alan Cohen's still posting on the official board as we speak, dissing Biggane's wild imagination

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Cohen
Again, this is Jacques' decision regarding who to pay what to. Our payroll will be going up. I know that.

There is an equal chance i was on the phone all day trying to talk Madonna into coaching the Panthers. Brian comes up with the wildest stuff. No disrespect to Bob Hartley, but its just not true. I wont be calling anyone about coaching.


Last edited by VirtualSpree: 04-12-2008 at 08:54 PM.
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04-12-2008, 09:54 PM
  #41
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If Cohen would have waited for everything to be in place before having a meeting to simply answer fans questions, writers would have still been writing crappy rumor stories until the meeting took place, just like they did at the trade deadline. That happens to every team no matter what.

I honestly don't see why you're making such a big deal over this. "Damage has already been done?" Give me a break. This is a hockey team, not a political campaign, and we're probably the only people who read Brian Biggane's terrible articles anyway. Bottom line is that the guy wanted to talk to his team's fans, and he did. There's nothing wrong in doing that.

edit: lol, Alan Cohen's still posting on the official board as we speak, dissing Biggane's wild imagination


and good point, vs. it's probably true but there would have been speculation about JM and not this wild general speculation (see thread title). in general though, this is part of a pattern with this team. perhaps it wouldn't have been a big deal to meet with the team before having JM's answer if we didn't have the history of past misteps here? even so, why didn't he just come out and level with the fans, rather than be coy and have the truth slip out in drips and drabs over the next 24-48 hours?

i still think cohen could have started this process earlier and been more professional. all this stuff is just unecessary and, yes, i think it does do harm to the organization when this kind of crap goes on; it really makes it look like nobody knows what the hell they're doing (imo, at least).

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04-12-2008, 11:24 PM
  #42
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if he was a horrible coach, how'd they do so well early on? do you realize what it takes to get the opportunity to coach in the nhl??? c'mon man. horrible is not the right choice of words. it just didn't work out. maybe he was overmatched by the job or maybe it just wasn't a good fit but generally speaking, you don't get to that level if you're a horrible coach.

more to the point, fans will always want change when something doesn't appear (carefully chosen words) to be working. columnists of little character (if the shoe fits, biggane, wear it) will always try to needle organizations and plant rumors, as will opponents. you're always going to be up against it. i realize that. there are ways to mitigate these types of situations and solid, well run franchises usually do and avoid this kind of lingering controversy, the kind that affects everyone from the trainers to the owner. we seem to step in it EVERY SINGLE year. what's the common thread? that's right - cohen.
You're right Horrible was a bad word to use, my bad. But I was just trying to give an example. Our problem to be just seems like a lack of motivation, which is 100% JM's fault as a COACH. He is a great GM but not so good of a Coach. I don't think Cohen has anything to do with this, he said it himself he is a VERY hands-OFF person. He lets the hockey people deal with the hockey business.

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04-12-2008, 11:42 PM
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You're right Horrible was a bad word to use, my bad. But I was just trying to give an example. Our problem to be just seems like a lack of motivation, which is 100% JM's fault as a COACH. He is a great GM but not so good of a Coach. I don't think Cohen has anything to do with this, he said it himself he is a VERY hands-OFF person. He lets the hockey people deal with the hockey business.
If someone paid me $550,000+/yr to do that which I love the most... I wouldn't need some guy in a suit motivating me...

I still blame the players for not doing their job...

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04-13-2008, 12:33 AM
  #44
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If someone paid me $550,000+/yr to do that which I love the most... I wouldn't need some guy in a suit motivating me...

I still blame the players for not doing their job...
Oh ofcourse they are to be blamed too, but a lot of it goes to the coach as well. If JM was more of a emotional figure then the lifeless emotionless person that he is I think games would be more interested to watch. We have a very good team but our mentality is just horrible.

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04-13-2008, 12:56 AM
  #45
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Oh ofcourse they are to be blamed too, but a lot of it goes to the coach as well. If JM was more of a emotional figure then the lifeless emotionless person that he is I think games would be more interested to watch. We have a very good team but our mentality is just horrible.
Exactly. Look what happened to Washington when a new leader was in the locker room.

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04-13-2008, 07:24 AM
  #46
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I wish what you wrote was true, but unfortunately it is inaccurate to suggest that "we have a very good hockey team." Go watch the playoffs and compare the teams in the western conference, such as the Ducks, Stars, Wild, Sharks etc, to the Panthers. The truth is that we have a long way to go.

Martin has done an excellent job the past year as a GM trying to rebuild the team from the goalie out. Now that the goalie piece is in place, the next step is to fortify the defense, which hopefully means re-signing Bo and adding another major talent. BTW, please note the vast improvement on the PK last season, despite injuries. In terms of forwards, assuming that Kilger reports next season, we finally have a 4th checking line with grit to complement a good third line (Olez/Dvorak, Krepps/Mcclean, Zednick) and a good to very good 2nd line (Booth/Weiss/Horton). What we don't have is a 1st line, except maybe Ollie.

Given our talent, Martin should not be criticized for the Panther's style of play, which is designed to keep games close. But, he should be criticized for the poor communication, the lack of discipline, the number of penalties, the lack of consistent effort etc., all of which is the coach's responsibility.

The bottom-line is that, if we shed some bad contracts, if we add some more talent, if we spend more money, then we will be able to make the playoffs, but not advance very far.

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04-13-2008, 09:20 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by puckdaddy View Post
I wish what you wrote was true, but unfortunately it is inaccurate to suggest that "we have a very good hockey team." Go watch the playoffs and compare the teams in the western conference, such as the Ducks, Stars, Wild, Sharks etc, to the Panthers. The truth is that we have a long way to go.

Martin has done an excellent job the past year as a GM trying to rebuild the team from the goalie out. Now that the goalie piece is in place, the next step is to fortify the defense, which hopefully means re-signing Bo and adding another major talent. BTW, please note the vast improvement on the PK last season, despite injuries. In terms of forwards, assuming that Kilger reports next season, we finally have a 4th checking line with grit to complement a good third line (Olez/Dvorak, Krepps/Mcclean, Zednick) and a good to very good 2nd line (Booth/Weiss/Horton). What we don't have is a 1st line, except maybe Ollie.

Given our talent, Martin should not be criticized for the Panther's style of play, which is designed to keep games close. But, he should be criticized for the poor communication, the lack of discipline, the number of penalties, the lack of consistent effort etc., all of which is the coach's responsibility.

The bottom-line is that, if we shed some bad contracts, if we add some more talent, if we spend more money, then we will be able to make the playoffs, but not advance very far.
......95-96? We had 1 star.....One.

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04-13-2008, 09:38 AM
  #48
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......95-96? We had 1 star.....One.
are you really going to try to compare apples and oranges?

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04-13-2008, 10:44 AM
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are you really going to try to compare apples and oranges?
How could it be any different, we got lucky then and its still 100% possible to be lucky now.

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04-13-2008, 11:05 AM
  #50
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Exactly. Look what happened to Washington when a new leader was in the locker room.
ok, here's my quick rebuttal - do you really think WAS, with OV, semin, green, backstrom, et al were a 6-14 team? i'll give you 2 answers and the first doesn't count. now, take a look at the panthers - are the panthers a 45-30-8 type team in terms of talent (i.e., is that what you would expect with a new coach?)? again, 2 answers... hanlon was clearly not working while JM, by all objective measures other than securing a playoff berth, did a pretty damn good job considering.

sure, there was some frustration about the slow starts but, realistically speaking, this team competed night in and night out and won their fair share of games when healthy. they ended up a where they should have been given their roster and the injuries. i think it's disingenuous to imply someone else could have them playing like WAS.

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Originally Posted by puckdaddy View Post
I wish what you wrote was true, but unfortunately it is inaccurate to suggest that "we have a very good hockey team." Go watch the playoffs and compare the teams in the western conference, such as the Ducks, Stars, Wild, Sharks etc, to the Panthers. The truth is that we have a long way to go.

Martin has done an excellent job the past year as a GM trying to rebuild the team from the goalie out. Now that the goalie piece is in place, the next step is to fortify the defense, which hopefully means re-signing Bo and adding another major talent. BTW, please note the vast improvement on the PK last season, despite injuries. In terms of forwards, assuming that Kilger reports next season, we finally have a 4th checking line with grit to complement a good third line (Olez/Dvorak, Krepps/Mcclean, Zednick) and a good to very good 2nd line (Booth/Weiss/Horton). What we don't have is a 1st line, except maybe Ollie.

Given our talent, Martin should not be criticized for the Panther's style of play, which is designed to keep games close. But, he should be criticized for the poor communication, the lack of discipline, the number of penalties, the lack of consistent effort etc., all of which is the coach's responsibility.

The bottom-line is that, if we shed some bad contracts, if we add some more talent, if we spend more money, then we will be able to make the playoffs, but not advance very far.
welcome, puckdaddy. hope you have your armor on, as you'll certainly be getting hit from all sides if you keep talking like that around here! if you've read any of the other threads, you'll know that i agree with your post 100%. i don't absolve JM of all fault here but, generally speaking, he's done a good job.

following up on my response to to pb, i think you describe the current state of affairs here quite accurately. i would agree we have a long way to go but i would qualify that - we have a long way to go to become one of the elite teams.

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