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Old
04-13-2008, 12:08 PM
  #1
SufferingCatFan
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What's Your Proposal for Fixing the Panthers?

Here is my proposal for improving the Panthers during the off-season. It will require a net expenditure of about $10mm, but should enable the Panthers to make the playoffs.

First, the Panthers need to resign RFA J-BO to a 5 year contract averaging $6mm per season, which represents a net increase of about $3.75mm over his existing contract.

Second, the Panthers should trade Stumpel with a year left at $2.25mm to the Wild for Mark Parrish, a around- the- net (LW/RW) scorer with 3 years remaining on his contract at about $2.75mm. This is a win-win allowing both teams to dump a player, who no longer fits their plans, while adding a player they need. The Wild need a short-term replacement for UFA center, Pavol Demitra, and get to unload some salary to create cap room for resigning Gaborik next year when he becomes an UFA. The Panthers need an around the net LW to complement Ollie. The Panthers would add about $500,000 in salary for next season. The Panthers may need to add a draft pick to get it done.

Third, the Panthers should sign UFA, Michael Ryder, a scoring RW for the Habs, who is admittedly coming off a disappointing season, but will be in high demand because of the weak class in free agency. My guess is that it will take a 4 year contract at $4.00mm to get it done.

Fourth, the Panthers should sign RFA Olesz to a 3 year contract at averaging $1.8mm per year, which represents a raise of $1mm.

Fifth, the Panthers need to attend to some Misc. housekeeping, such as resigning Belak, Cullimore, Montador and unloading Peltonen.

The Panthers would then look like this:

Parrish, Jokinen, Ryder
Booth, Weiss, Horton
Olesz,McClean, Zednick
Kilger, Krepps, DVorak

J-Bo--Allen
Van Ryn--Cullimore
Welch-skrastins
Montador-Belak (both two-way capable)

Vokoun
Anderson

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Old
04-13-2008, 12:28 PM
  #2
Happy Girl
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1. Hire a President/Director of Hockey Operations to serve as middleman between the GM and Cohen. Get someone who actually KNOWS what it takes to building a solid (winning) NHL franchise. Then let that person do what he/she needs to do.

2. Let the new Director of Hockey Operations lead the search to find a new GM/Coach - if Martin decides to leave completely and take a coaching oppty elsewhere.

3. Get our own AHL franchise so that we can develop our own players/coaches in our system - this will improve our depth which would diminish the affects of having so many injuries - if we had quality prospects to call up. It would also help to build our roster, either through trades or natural progression.

4. Have the DHC and GM and head coach all work together to put together a long term plan to build sustainable success, including assessing our current roster and making whatever off season personnel moves are necessary.

5. Burn some sage in the locker room to clean out the bad energy in there.

IMO - I don't think there is one player or one head coach who can fix what is wrong with this franchise. It seems as though there is a systemic breakdown within the organization. We keep pinning our hopes on that one guy, that's all we need, but each year it seems like we need just that one sniper, or one playmaker or one goalie... each year it seems like we're dealing with our other excuse of the revolving door of coaches/GMs ... each year we make a late season push for the playoffs but don't get there ... year after year of the same excuses ... i can't believe that we keep trying to fix them the same way. maybe it's just me but after 7 years and no playoffs, it seems the old way of fixing things with that one player or one head coach just aren't working and it's indicative of overall systemic failure starting from the top and funnelling its way down.

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04-13-2008, 12:47 PM
  #3
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1) Move to Kansas City.

No, I'm not serious. It's just that about 7 years ago we started the 'rebuilding' process and it just feels like to me it's been just one colossal ****-up after another. We haven't been to the playoffs since 2000 and we haven't won a playoff series since 1996.

I've tried giving up on this team so many times, but I just can't. No matter what, no matter where I live, and no matter how much we suck I'll always be a Panther fan. All I want for this franchise is stability and success, and we haven't had that in a decade.


Last edited by Acadmus: 04-14-2008 at 01:20 PM. Reason: fixing his smiley - misspelled the trigger word
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Old
04-13-2008, 01:04 PM
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Florida Panthers, I wish I knew how to quit you.

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Old
04-13-2008, 01:09 PM
  #5
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Florida Panthers, I wish I knew how to quit you.
Its impossible. They are a drug, and we are all hooked. Just like they say in the Sopranos, there is no getting out.

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Old
04-13-2008, 01:19 PM
  #6
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I know this has been discussed a million times in other threads, but I guess it's a worthwhile topic for idle banter during the looooooonnnnnnggggg offseason.

I've edited the thread title to encourage broader discussion. Limit your posts to your own proposals (and if you wish pro-arguments supporting your position), don't critique other people's proposals to argue all the little points of them, and no trolling (as defined by making a post that's sure to generate hostility - and no, regrettably suggesting Mike Keenan be re-hired doesn't count).

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Old
04-13-2008, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
I know this has been discussed a million times in other threads, but I guess it's a worthwhile topic for idle banter during the looooooonnnnnnggggg offseason.

I've edited the thread title to encourage broader discussion. Limit your posts to your own proposals (and if you wish pro-arguments supporting your position), don't critique other people's proposals to argue all the little points of them, and no trolling (as defined by making a post that's sure to generate hostility - and no, regrettably suggesting Mike Keenan be re-hired doesn't count).
Buy out Keenan's contract with Calgary and make him President of Hockey Operations and Part-Time Ass Kicker!!!

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Old
04-13-2008, 02:59 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Girl View Post
1. Hire a President/Director of Hockey Operations to serve as middleman between the GM and Cohen. Get someone who actually KNOWS what it takes to building a solid (winning) NHL franchise. Then let that person do what he/she needs to do.

2. Let the new Director of Hockey Operations lead the search to find a new GM/Coach - if Martin decides to leave completely and take a coaching oppty elsewhere.

3. Get our own AHL franchise so that we can develop our own players/coaches in our system - this will improve our depth which would diminish the affects of having so many injuries - if we had quality prospects to call up. It would also help to build our roster, either through trades or natural progression.

4. Have the DHC and GM and head coach all work together to put together a long term plan to build sustainable success, including assessing our current roster and making whatever off season personnel moves are necessary.

5. Burn some sage in the locker room to clean out the bad energy in there.

IMO - I don't think there is one player or one head coach who can fix what is wrong with this franchise. It seems as though there is a systemic breakdown within the organization. We keep pinning our hopes on that one guy, that's all we need, but each year it seems like we need just that one sniper, or one playmaker or one goalie... each year it seems like we're dealing with our other excuse of the revolving door of coaches/GMs ... each year we make a late season push for the playoffs but don't get there ... year after year of the same excuses ... i can't believe that we keep trying to fix them the same way. maybe it's just me but after 7 years and no playoffs, it seems the old way of fixing things with that one player or one head coach just aren't working and it's indicative of overall systemic failure starting from the top and funnelling its way down.
what some people don't seem to understand is that there is no simple formula for building a contender. great teams are built with and around complimentary players. that takes a lot of time and, in order to make ANY progress, some consistency of vision. how on earth is this franchise supposed to take the next step when we apparently cannot achieve this first pretty simple task.

needless to say, HG, i agree 100%. we can only hope that cohen reads these forums or someone close to him is giving him this kind of advice. this is not a personal slight against cohen; i've attacked him in the past out of frustration and perhaps jumped the gun but, frankly, this is not a popularity contest; this is about competency at the top of the hockey operations org chart and, by all objective measures, cohen's been his (and the fans') own worst enemy in that regard.


Last edited by zeroG: 04-13-2008 at 03:12 PM.
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Old
04-13-2008, 03:26 PM
  #9
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Our cap situation next season:
projected $56 million
Panthers going into next season: $37.4 million ($18.6 million under)

Under contract next season:
Jokinen
Booth
Weiss
Horton
McLean
Zednik
Dvorak
Kilger
Peltonen
Stumpel

Allen
Skrastins
MVR
Murphy
Welch

Vokoun
Anderson

RFAs (my projected salaries)
Olesz ($2 million)
Bouwmeester ($6 million)
Campbell ($700k)
Kreps ($700k)


UFAs (my projected salaries)
Belak ($700k)
Montador ($1.2 million)
Cully ($1.4 million)

Johannson ($800k)

Italic is who Id like to see back, with Johannson as a possible option as well. With my projected numbers, which I think is fair due to some having career years, our cap sitiuation going into next season is $50.6 million. Thats going to put us at about $6 million under the cap. Now we dont know what Alan would like to see that team capped at, or if there would be any bonuses that might affect the number. So figure that the team will only have a couple of million to work with in the offseason. The only option this team has to add anyone would be to cut salary. That means someone has to take on one or two of Stumpel/Kilger/Peltonen via trade/waiver wirer. If that doesnt happen, we are pretty much going to see a similar team to last seasons, which might not be the worst thing if we can get a more offensive minded coach in here, and just STAY HEALTHY.

What Id like to see:
1. Martin stay, as long as he wants to be here, as GM
2. Sign either Randy Cunneyworth or Bob Hartley as Head Coach
3. Waive/trade away two or three of Stumpel/Peltonen/Kilger/Murph/MVR
4. Resign the players listed above in italic
5. Sign Prospal and Liles

Olesz - Olli - Prospal
Booth - Weiss - Horton
McLean - Kreps - Zednik
Dvorak - Soup - Monty/Belak

Bouwmeester - Allen
Liles - Skrastins
Cully - Murphy/Welch/Johannson

Vokoun
Anderson

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Old
04-13-2008, 04:34 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Our cap situation next season:
projected $56 million
Panthers going into next season: $37.4 million ($18.6 million under)

Under contract next season:
Jokinen
Booth
Weiss
Horton
McLean
Zednik
Dvorak
Kilger
Peltonen
Stumpel

Allen
Skrastins
MVR
Murphy
Welch

Vokoun
Anderson

RFAs (my projected salaries)
Olesz ($2 million)
Bouwmeester ($6 million)
Campbell ($700k)
Kreps ($700k)


UFAs (my projected salaries)
Belak ($700k)
Montador ($1.2 million)
Cully ($1.4 million)

Johannson ($800k)

Italic is who Id like to see back, with Johannson as a possible option as well. With my projected numbers, which I think is fair due to some having career years, our cap sitiuation going into next season is $50.6 million. That's going to put us at about $6 million under the cap. Now we don't know what Alan would like to see that team capped at, or if there would be any bonuses that might affect the number. So figure that the team will only have a couple of million to work with in the off-season. The only option this team has to add anyone would be to cut salary. That means someone has to take on one or two of Stumpel/Kilger/Peltonen via trade/waiver wirer. If that doesn't happen, we are pretty much going to see a similar team to last seasons, which might not be the worst thing if we can get a more offensive minded coach in here, and just STAY HEALTHY.

What Id like to see:
1. Martin stay, as long as he wants to be here, as GM
2. Sign either Randy Cunneyworth or Bob Hartley as Head Coach
3. Waive/trade away two or three of Stumpel/Peltonen/Kilger/Murph/MVR
4. Resign the players listed above in italic
5. Sign Prospal and Liles

Olesz - Olli - Prospal
Booth - Weiss - Horton
McLean - Kreps - Zednik
Dvorak - Soup - Monty/Belak

Bouwmeester - Allen
Liles - Skrastins
Cully - Murphy/Welch/Johannson

Vokoun
Anderson

The Panthers need to revamp their lineup more dramatically than you suggest. It starts, if possible, with shedding Stumpel and Peltonen with a combined salary of $3.25mm. Both can probably be traded, if the Panthers are willing to take salary back. That is why I suggested Mark Parrish.

After resigning Bo, there is enough room for Prospal. I prefer Ryder. But, either fills the need probably in the $4mm range.

What about Van Ryn, whose salary is on the books for $3mm? Given his uncertain wrist injury, he will be difficult to trade and I suspect that no team would pick him up on waivers either. As long as he remains, it is doubtful that the Panthers will have room to sign another expensive free agent,like Liles.

Next, Montador isn't worth the suggested $1.4mm nor are limited players like Johannson and Campbell worth $800,000 apiece. Kilger is a beast and we should keep him at $800, if he reports.

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Old
04-13-2008, 05:02 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckdaddy View Post
The Panthers need to revamp their lineup more dramatically than you suggest. It starts, if possible, with shedding Stumpel and Peltonen with a combined salary of $3.25mm. Both can probably be traded, if the Panthers are willing to take salary back. That is why I suggested Mark Parrish.

After resigning Bo, there is enough room for Prospal. I prefer Ryder. But, either fills the need probably in the $4mm range.

What about Van Ryn, whose salary is on the books for $3mm? Given his uncertain wrist injury, he will be difficult to trade and I suspect that no team would pick him up on waivers either. As long as he remains, it is doubtful that the Panthers will have room to sign another expensive free agent,like Liles.

Next, Montador isn't worth the suggested $1.4mm nor are limited players like Johannson and Campbell worth $800,000 apiece. Kilger is a beast and we should keep him at $800, if he reports.
The problem is, Minnesota wont trade Stumpel and/or Peltonen for Mark Parrish. We'd be lucky if we get picks, late ones at that, for them. And NO WAY am I giving Ryder $4 million, no way. Id much rather have Prospal who has shown to be a more consistant scorer lately. Plus, Prospal's passing ability is better than Ryder, giving Olli a good setup man as well as a scorer for his line.

And I dont agree with you on Monty either. He is versatile by being able to play both the forward and defense position, stands up for his teammates, and can get you about 7-9 goals on your fourth line. A definite grinder and keeper IMO.

IF, and thats a big IF, this team can cut salaries with Peltonen/Stumpel, they would be around $9-10 million under. That gives us enough to go after one significant forward and serviceable Dman, or vice versa. But if we cant trim any of the fat off this roster, its going to be nearly impossible to sign anyone.

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Old
04-13-2008, 05:08 PM
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I hate to tell you all but it will take more than 6 mill a year to sign jay, and frankly if it is much more than 6.5 I would let him go or trade him. That will determine the rest of the plans so they need to resolve his situation soon. If they trade him, they could get at least one top scorer and two additional very good players, maybe Edmonton, for Hemsky, Pitkannen and Stoll, and we would add some more going the other way. If he signs long term great but I have the feeling he will be playing hardball since he's been jerked around and low balled for years by this team and it is finally his chance to make the money.

Once that is resolved the rest will be a lot easier to plan, but at this point it all starts with Jay's contract because of the money and talent invovled.

As far as GM, I hope martin decides to leave and we get a fresh new start. I still think the Maclean/Skrudland combo would be great.

Although if martin stays, I hear his old Quebec buddy is driving the zamboni at the ice rink in Saskatchewan, and would make a great coach. He hasn't coached since his kid's peewee team 20 years ago but he has an uncanny skill at running those cone drills.

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Old
04-13-2008, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Cat View Post
I hate to tell you all but it will take more than 6 mill a year to sign jay, and frankly if it is much more than 6.5 I would let him go or trade him. That will determine the rest of the plans so they need to resolve his situation soon. If they trade him, they could get at least one top scorer and two additional very good players, maybe Edmonton, for Hemsky, Pitkannen and Stoll, and we would add some more going the other way. If he signs long term great but I have the feeling he will be playing hardball since he's been jerked around and low balled for years by this team and it is finally his chance to make the money.

Once that is resolved the rest will be a lot easier to plan, but at this point it all starts with Jay's contract because of the money and talent invovled.

As far as GM, I hope martin decides to leave and we get a fresh new start. I still think the Maclean/Skrudland combo would be great.

Although if martin stays, I hear his old Quebec buddy is driving the zamboni at the ice rink in Saskatchewan, and would make a great coach. He hasn't coached since his kid's peewee team 20 years ago but he has an uncanny skill at running those cone drills.
No to Maclean. And if we want to hire a Martin acquaintance, then we should just go after Cunneyworth. And I dont think Bouw, or his agent, are going to ask for more money than what Dion got. That would be a fair comparison, and Bouw isnt at Dion's level yet.

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04-13-2008, 05:29 PM
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I was obviously being sarcastic about martin's buddy. I agree Bouw is no where near Dion but I am afraid that won't matter in the negotiation. Boyle sure didn't help us.

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Old
04-13-2008, 06:21 PM
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Its impossible. They are a drug, and we are all hooked. Just like they say in the Sopranos, there is no getting out.
True

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Old
04-14-2008, 01:18 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Slick Cat View Post
I hate to tell you all but it will take more than 6 mill a year to sign jay, and frankly if it is much more than 6.5 I would let him go or trade him. That will determine the rest of the plans so they need to resolve his situation soon. If they trade him, they could get at least one top scorer and two additional very good players, maybe Edmonton, for Hemsky, Pitkannen and Stoll, and we would add some more going the other way. If he signs long term great but I have the feeling he will be playing hardball since he's been jerked around and low balled for years by this team and it is finally his chance to make the money.

Once that is resolved the rest will be a lot easier to plan, but at this point it all starts with Jay's contract because of the money and talent invovled.

As far as GM, I hope martin decides to leave and we get a fresh new start. I still think the Maclean/Skrudland combo would be great.

Although if martin stays, I hear his old Quebec buddy is driving the zamboni at the ice rink in Saskatchewan, and would make a great coach. He hasn't coached since his kid's peewee team 20 years ago but he has an uncanny skill at running those cone drills.
umm i would love if hemsky was part of the deal but theres no way edmonton trades him i think u replace hemsky with horcoff and deal is set

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04-14-2008, 10:32 AM
  #17
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Some people have reacted in horror to see JM lose the head coach position. Cohen is being crucified by them for making that change. What I'd like to know is how can anyone honestly say the situation was stable, and headed towards more stability, with JM as both GM and HC? I actually think Cohen made the right decision, even if its public delivery wasn't politically perfect.

So far I got my first wish - JM is out as coach. I don't know if I'll get my second wish - that JM would stay as GM. It's even a bigger stretch to see if I'll get my third wish - that JM would then hire a younger, more energetic, more outspoken, more motivational head coach.

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Old
04-15-2008, 10:42 AM
  #18
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Here is my proposal for improving the Panthers during the off-season. It will require a net expenditure of about $10mm, but should enable the Panthers to make the playoffs.

First, the Panthers need to resign RFA J-BO to a 5 year contract averaging $6mm per season, which represents a net increase of about $3.75mm over his existing contract.

Second, the Panthers should trade Stumpel with a year left at $2.25mm to the Wild for Mark Parrish, a around- the- net (LW/RW) scorer with 3 years remaining on his contract at about $2.75mm. This is a win-win allowing both teams to dump a player, who no longer fits their plans, while adding a player they need. The Wild need a short-term replacement for UFA center, Pavol Demitra, and get to unload some salary to create cap room for resigning Gaborik next year when he becomes an UFA. The Panthers need an around the net LW to complement Ollie. The Panthers would add about $500,000 in salary for next season. The Panthers may need to add a draft pick to get it done.

Third, the Panthers should sign UFA, Michael Ryder, a scoring RW for the Habs, who is admittedly coming off a disappointing season, but will be in high demand because of the weak class in free agency. My guess is that it will take a 4 year contract at $4.00mm to get it done.

Fourth, the Panthers should sign RFA Olesz to a 3 year contract at averaging $1.8mm per year, which represents a raise of $1mm.

Fifth, the Panthers need to attend to some Misc. housekeeping, such as resigning Belak, Cullimore, Montador and unloading Peltonen.

The Panthers would then look like this:

Parrish, Jokinen, Ryder
Booth, Weiss, Horton
Olesz,McClean, Zednick
Kilger, Krepps, DVorak

J-Bo--Allen
Van Ryn--Cullimore
Welch-skrastins
Montador-Belak (both two-way capable)

Vokoun
Anderson
I agree with everything here but one. I would not sign Ryder. Olli needs somebody bigger to play with and create some space out there.

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04-15-2008, 12:36 PM
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you could trade Yokinen and Vokoun to Ottawa for Emery, Vermette, the negotiation rights to Wade Redden

After all, your GM Martin can't stan Yokinen

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04-15-2008, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan31 View Post
you could trade Yokinen and Vokoun to Ottawa for Emery, Vermette, the negotiation rights to Wade Redden

After all, your GM Martin can't stan Yokinen
No way!

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04-15-2008, 12:43 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by sensfan31 View Post
you could trade Yokinen and Vokoun to Ottawa for Emery, Vermette, the negotiation rights to Wade Redden

After all, your GM Martin can't stan Yokinen
Who's Yokinen? And why the hell would want to do something like that? Trade a top 10 goaltender for a guy who was put out of work and has proven himself a headcase, a point-per-game guy in Jokinen for Vermette (another downgrade), and the rights to hopefully sign Redden...who may come anyway if Martin stays?

Awful!

If the rumours are true, we should just trade Jokinen for nothing?

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04-15-2008, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Who's Yokinen? And why the hell would want to do something like that? Trade a top 10 goaltender for a guy who was put out of work and has proven himself a headcase, a point-per-game guy in Jokinen for Vermette (another downgrade), and the rights to hopefully sign Redden...who may come anyway if Martin stays?

Awful!

If the rumours are true, we should just trade Jokinen for nothing?
Haha maybe it is a YOKE

Perhaps we take these trade proposals too seriously sometimes.

On a sidenote, perhaps a Jokinen deal, but acquiring Afinogenov may help quite alot.

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04-15-2008, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Haha maybe it is a YOKE

Perhaps we take these trade proposals too seriously sometimes.

On a sidenote, perhaps a Jokinen deal, but acquiring Afinogenov may help quite alot.
I was thinking about that the other day, when the article came out about him. I wouldnt mind seeing him down here, and it might not cost us as much as it would have if he had a good season. If they want to dump him and his #3.5 million towards next season, maybe a prospect and pick could get it done.

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04-15-2008, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
I was thinking about that the other day, when the article came out about him. I wouldnt mind seeing him down here, and it might not cost us as much as it would have if he had a good season. If they want to dump him and his #3.5 million towards next season, maybe a prospect and pick could get it done.
I'd say Stewart, but he's probably the reason why they are leaving the Amerks.

Afinogenov is a top 6 forward, if streaky and unreliable, and provides us something we do not have. Perhaps similar to the Huselius position, a change of scenery will see a talented player blossom.

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04-15-2008, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
I'd say Stewart, but he's probably the reason why they are leaving the Amerks.

Afinogenov is a top 6 forward, if streaky and unreliable, and provides us something we do not have. Perhaps similar to the Huselius position, a change of scenery will see a talented player blossom.
Maybe a Stewart/Stumpel/pick could get it done. Getting rid of Stumpel helps us with the salary difference. But we can also go after a Huselius or Prospal in the UFA market, and use the $3.5 million Maxim makes that way.

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