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04-15-2008, 07:30 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Crossbar View Post
I speculate Perry Pearn would be first on Martin's list. JM was after him earlier for a position in the organization (this year or last, I forget), but Perry turned it down to stay in NY....I'm sure a head coaching position will be a lot more appealing than assisting Tom Renney.
I also have a hunch that Pearn may be high on Martin's list. I don't know much about him though.

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04-15-2008, 07:44 PM
  #27
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Tom Hicks is a Real Estate Developer and he choose the co-gms? Never heard of that, but i am assuming if they didnt finish the season so strongly or kicked Anaheim's butt in the playoffs, you would probably say he didnt get it right either.

Should i go on?

I would say 90% of the owners pick the GM and other than Mario, no owner has played hockey.


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a gift for you. a hint - it's not a toaster

now that's a bit of a straw man, booth. who said anything about playing hockey? clearly there are people with the natural ability to do this stuff without having played the sport before. and obviously not everyone who knows the sport and management will be successful. so going back to what you said before, there's no real recipe. however, we do know that cohen continues to make mistakes. a few people have pointed out the irony of telling fans "we need a new coach because this is not working" and then allowing the guy you just undressed to set the parameters for the coaching search and pick the guy. in this case, i think we'll be ok but you can just see the makings of the next disaster.

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04-15-2008, 07:48 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Happy Girl View Post
Tom Hicks also has Jim Lites as the President of sports marketing group. Lites has significant hockey experience. Hicks doesn't have to be so involved with the day to day operations.
From Wilkepedia.
The Dallas Stars had a mediocre start to the 2007-2008 NHL season, initially going 7-7-3. On November 13, 2007, after a meltdown by the team in Los Angeles (losing 6-5 in OT after leading 4-0 with 7 minutes remaining in the game, Lites dismissed General Manager Doug Armstrong, and replaced them with the tandem of Brett Hull and Les Jackson.

The next day, team owner and chairman Tom Hicks reassigned Lites to head Hicks Sports Marketing Group. Lites will oversee the sponsorship and marketing of the Dallas Stars, Texas Rangers, Liverpool Football Club and Mesquite Championship Rodeo.



Too bad Cohen doesnt have Lites to pick out his GM.

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04-15-2008, 07:51 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
a gift for you. a hint - it's not a toaster

now that's a bit of a straw man, booth. who said anything about playing hockey? clearly there are people with the natural ability to do this stuff without having played the sport before. and obviously not everyone who knows the sport and management will be successful. so going back to what you said before, there's no real recipe. however, we do know that cohen continues to make mistakes. a few people have pointed out the irony of telling fans "we need a new coach because this is not working" and then allowing the guy you just undressed to set the parameters for the coaching search and pick the guy. in this case, i think we'll be ok but you can just see the makings of the next disaster.
Your right. Why should Cohen have the guy with 600 wins pick out a coach? What does he know about coaching? Especially when he just needs to come on this board and we have all the answers.

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04-15-2008, 07:54 PM
  #30
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Ehhh... I'm on the fence about it. He had 3 seasons and didn't produce anything worth mentioning. But next year is the one. (yeah right) I expect this team to continue being bottom dwellers for a loooooooong time. I hope I'm wrong, but I give up on this team.
I just think the team is finally on the right track. I mean, Jacques has a plan as GM and is patiently putting it into place. I count the last 2 seasons for Jacques right now. He didn't do great as a coach, but he's done a very good job as GM. He's cleaned things up pretty well and I trust him to make the right choice.

Martin's still with the team, he wasn't fired and asked to clear out his desk, then asked to pick a coach, he was asked to stay in a top level position. The next coach is going to be a big stamp on him as GM and his future with this team. I think he's going to put a lot of effort into who he hires as the next coach, so I trust him to bring in the right person.

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04-15-2008, 07:57 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Booth10 View Post
Your right. Why should Cohen have the guy with 600 wins pick out a coach? What does he know about coaching? Especially when he just needs to come on this board and we have all the answers.
What's with your lovefest with Cohen? Face it, when it comes to Cohen's ability to pick hockey personell, his record leaves much to be desired. I think he's smart to keep Cohen around, but you can't argue his history in that department.

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04-15-2008, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
What's with your lovefest with Cohen? Face it, when it comes to Cohen's ability to pick hockey personell, his record leaves much to be desired. I think he's smart to keep Cohen around, but you can't argue his history in that department.
Keenan, Dudley and Martin to date.


They know a little about hockey, dont you think?

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04-15-2008, 08:08 PM
  #33
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Your right. Why should Cohen have the guy with 600 wins pick out a coach? What does he know about coaching? Especially when he just needs to come on this board and we have all the answers.
you completely missed my point. yes, of course you let JM pick the coach if he's staying - that's the job of the GM. that begs the question - why did the owner who knows nothing then, step in and tell our GM with 600 wins as coach his business?

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04-15-2008, 08:09 PM
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you completely missed my point. yes, of course you let JM pick the coach if he's staying - that's the job of the GM. that begs the question - why did the owner who knows nothing then, step in and tell our GM with 600 wins as coach his business?
Huh?

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04-15-2008, 08:15 PM
  #35
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Huh?
exactly, you just tied yourself up in pretzel logic, using JM's experience, which cohen stepped all over last week, to make your point.

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04-15-2008, 08:21 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Booth10 View Post
Keenan, Dudley and Martin to date.


They know a little about hockey, dont you think?
Hard to tell with the way 2 of those 3 have left this team. Keenan sure was a good choice , Dudley was terrible. Has any of his picks made the NHL...and hung around? I'd like to thank him for bringing Kudroc and Mezei along with him, they were great here.

I don't hate the guy by any means, but he's certainly not done a stellar job.

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04-15-2008, 09:17 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I just think the team is finally on the right track. I mean, Jacques has a plan as GM and is patiently putting it into place. I count the last 2 seasons for Jacques right now. He didn't do great as a coach, but he's done a very good job as GM. He's cleaned things up pretty well and I trust him to make the right choice.

Martin's still with the team, he wasn't fired and asked to clear out his desk, then asked to pick a coach, he was asked to stay in a top level position. The next coach is going to be a big stamp on him as GM and his future with this team. I think he's going to put a lot of effort into who he hires as the next coach, so I trust him to bring in the right person.
I agree with alot of your post. I do think that JM has done a decent job as GM - except for our first line - or total lack of. That REALLY worries me. What do you see him doing to correct it this off season as opposed to last off season?

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04-15-2008, 09:21 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Hard to tell with the way 2 of those 3 have left this team. Keenan sure was a good choice , Dudley was terrible. Has any of his picks made the NHL...and hung around? I'd like to thank him for bringing Kudroc and Mezei along with him, they were great here.
You forgot the third member of the "Redwood Defense" that Duds brought with him...but his name isn't to be mentioned here anyway

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04-15-2008, 09:23 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Hard to tell with the way 2 of those 3 have left this team. Keenan sure was a good choice , Dudley was terrible. Has any of his picks made the NHL...and hung around? I'd like to thank him for bringing Kudroc and Mezei along with him, they were great here.

I don't hate the guy by any means, but he's certainly not done a stellar job.
Not to split hairs but Dudley brought in the guy thats been heading the scouting dept for every draft since hired (that would be Scott Luce). So any of the picks making it or not making it as far as responsibility should go to Scott (not a bad record overall with Florida). And yes, many of his picks have obviously made the NHL and hung around. You know that guy that plays 27 mins a nite and is your franchise d-man? Greg Campbell has played his role to perfection. Kreps just started to show why they wanted him so bad in 2003. Dudley often had that boom-or-bust type of acquisitions and if he got one out of his moves, that's usually enough. And really if you're gonna mention anyone that Dudley brought in, there's "he who cannot be named here" as the most significant one and how he loved to run into goalies

Damnit Alan you beat me to it.

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04-15-2008, 09:24 PM
  #40
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Your right. Why should Cohen have the guy with 600 wins pick out a coach? What does he know about coaching? Especially when he just needs to come on this board and we have all the answers.
The problem that I see is this - JM may have 600 wins, but only 100 of them were here. JM was 110-100-36 as coach here - which in my book is really 146-100 - I don't care if you lose in regulation or OT. So, I suppose he'll pick a coach that is opposite of his coaching style?

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04-15-2008, 09:25 PM
  #41
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Damnit Alan you beat me to it.
You've gotta be fast, Rich - I'm opportunistic

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04-15-2008, 09:52 PM
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I'd like to see him go after Pat Burns as coach.

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04-16-2008, 12:04 AM
  #43
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You forgot the third member of the "Redwood Defense" that Duds brought with him...but his name isn't to be mentioned here anyway
Wait.......I thought "he whose name we do not mention" was BMW??? Not the Flyers' starting goalie's brother.

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04-16-2008, 01:01 AM
  #44
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I agree with alot of your post. I do think that JM has done a decent job as GM - except for our first line - or total lack of. That REALLY worries me. What do you see him doing to correct it this off season as opposed to last off season?
i think jokinen is a goner... which for me is fine as long as he gets back a couple good players who can make up and make this "Team" better.

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04-16-2008, 02:43 AM
  #45
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The more I think about it the more I think that Cohen should have just cleaned house. I may be jumping the gun depending on who JM hires as head coach, but this organization has been plagued for so many years with incompetence that even with a hockey like JM, he still has only 1 year of GM experience while there are more experienced GMs available out there. If JM was the poor communicator in the locker room, why should the players buy into what he's building? Why would good FAs come here? I'm not saying Nonis or Burns or anyone else is the answer, but it just feels to me like Martin just got fired as coach but promoted to GM. It's like firing your supervisor for doing a bad job then asking him/her to be an executive at your company.

I like what JM has done so far as GM for the most part, I'm just wondering what this says to the players on the team and potential FAs around the league about our organization. Stability or incompetence???

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04-16-2008, 06:23 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by FlaPanthers7 View Post
The more I think about it the more I think that Cohen should have just cleaned house. I may be jumping the gun depending on who JM hires as head coach, but this organization has been plagued for so many years with incompetence that even with a hockey like JM, he still has only 1 year of GM experience while there are more experienced GMs available out there. If JM was the poor communicator in the locker room, why should the players buy into what he's building? Why would good FAs come here? I'm not saying Nonis or Burns or anyone else is the answer, but it just feels to me like Martin just got fired as coach but promoted to GM. It's like firing your supervisor for doing a bad job then asking him/her to be an executive at your company.



I like what JM has done so far as GM for the most part, I'm just wondering what this says to the players on the team and potential FAs around the league about our organization. Stability or incompetence???
The best thing about moving forward is to have a clean slate, and this brings a clean slate without going nuclear," Vanbiesbrouck said.

"Not having someone new come in and turn everything upside down was very important to me. We believe in this core group, and we're committed to seeing us take this team to the next level." Cohen wrote.


These are the main points, i think. We really dont have room inder the cap to bring in free agents. Its whether you wanted to blow the thing up or not. Im glad they didnt. You never know what the next guy would do. Maybe a new guy ends up being like Keenan?

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04-16-2008, 07:12 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by FlaPanthers7 View Post
The more I think about it the more I think that Cohen should have just cleaned house. I may be jumping the gun depending on who JM hires as head coach, but this organization has been plagued for so many years with incompetence that even with a hockey like JM, he still has only 1 year of GM experience while there are more experienced GMs available out there. If JM was the poor communicator in the locker room, why should the players buy into what he's building? Why would good FAs come here? I'm not saying Nonis or Burns or anyone else is the answer, but it just feels to me like Martin just got fired as coach but promoted to GM. It's like firing your supervisor for doing a bad job then asking him/her to be an executive at your company.

I like what JM has done so far as GM for the most part, I'm just wondering what this says to the players on the team and potential FAs around the league about our organization. Stability or incompetence???
This thought occured to me last night. What if the Panthers again fail to make the Playoffs next season? How could Martin survive that? Even if by bad luck they are decimated by injuries again, bad luck is a firing offense if you are prone to it. So the Panthers fail to make the Playoffs in 2008/09, Martin is then almost certainly fired and this time you're looking for a GM with another GM's hand-picked Head Coach now under contract.


Last edited by Georgia Panther: 04-16-2008 at 08:27 AM.
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04-16-2008, 08:04 AM
  #48
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Wait.......I thought "he whose name we do not mention" was BMW??? Not the Flyers' starting goalie's brother.
No, it's the Flyers' starting goalie's brother.

Who's BMW again?

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04-16-2008, 08:06 AM
  #49
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This thought occured to me last night. What if the Panthers again fail to make the Playoffs next season? How could Martin survive that? Even if by bad luck they are decimated my injuries again, bad luck is a firing offense if you are prone to it. So the Panthers fail to make the Playoffs in 2008/09, Martin is then almost certainly fired and this time you're looking for a GM with another GM's hand-picked Head Coach now under contract.
It would be proof the franchise is doomed to rebuild in perpetuity.

But why worry about it - we can't change anything - just let the chips fall where they may.

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04-16-2008, 10:53 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by FlaPanthers7 View Post
The more I think about it the more I think that Cohen should have just cleaned house. I may be jumping the gun depending on who JM hires as head coach, but this organization has been plagued for so many years with incompetence that even with a hockey like JM, he still has only 1 year of GM experience while there are more experienced GMs available out there. If JM was the poor communicator in the locker room, why should the players buy into what he's building? Why would good FAs come here? I'm not saying Nonis or Burns or anyone else is the answer, but it just feels to me like Martin just got fired as coach but promoted to GM. It's like firing your supervisor for doing a bad job then asking him/her to be an executive at your company.

I like what JM has done so far as GM for the most part, I'm just wondering what this says to the players on the team and potential FAs around the league about our organization. Stability or incompetence???
The ironic part of all of this is you have a guy who clearly failed as coach of this team, yet he is the guy who will identify and select someone who can successfully coach this team. It's like asking bush to pick the next president.

This is not stability, it is clearly incompetence.

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