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The World is Ending and the Great Burke Debate

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02-08-2004, 08:19 PM
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hbk
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The World is Ending and the Great Burke Debate

In what I think can be best characterized as torture, Flyer and Ranger fans are running for cover on the proposed Burke deal. I almost feel sorry for them because they are in full fledged panic mode by this point. Almost. Phoenix fans have had to put up with abuse on these boards for months. Two days is nothing. Even if this all turns out to be premature I've enjoyed it.

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02-08-2004, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk
In what I think can be best characterized as torture, Flyer and Ranger fans are running for cover on the proposed Burke deal. I almost feel sorry for them because they are in full fledged panic mode by this point. Almost. Phoenix fans have had to put up with abuse on these boards for months. Two days is nothing. Even if this all turns out to be premature I've enjoyed it.
Can't disagree. Great entertainment value on a cold windy New England night.

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02-08-2004, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoob4093
Can't disagree. Great entertainment value on a cold windy New England night.
I've got to give some credit to you scoob. Ever since the Coyotes and the Falcons severed ties, you seem to have exchanged blind hostility for acceptance and tolerance.

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02-08-2004, 09:28 PM
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bobbyboucher24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk
In what I think can be best characterized as torture, Flyer and Ranger fans are running for cover on the proposed Burke deal. I almost feel sorry for them because they are in full fledged panic mode by this point. Almost. Phoenix fans have had to put up with abuse on these boards for months. Two days is nothing. Even if this all turns out to be premature I've enjoyed it.
Panic? Running for cover? Certainly not I. Simply put, Flyers fans don't want Burke. Not for Comrie or whatever. If Phoenix wants a draft pick, then maybe. But, we both know Phoenix wants more than a draft pick so there's really nothing to discuss. If it happens, then so be it. Clarke has the power and the fans have no say. Comrie production this year has been small, but his ice time has been less than 13 minutes per game. Too many Phoenix fans are underestimating the ability of Comrie. If he was given the 16-18 minutes of ice time that other players of his ability are given, he would be putting up more points. Granted, Hitch had to ease him in slowly resulting from not playing, but after 20+ games this is rediculous. I just don't think Hitch likes Comrie's style. So, in a nutshell, Philly fans: 1) don't want Burke, 2) don't want to trade Comrie for Burke, 3) would live with trading Comrie for a need, but not Burke.

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02-08-2004, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyboucher24
Panic? Running for cover? Certainly not I. Simply put, Flyers fans don't want Burke. Not for Comrie or whatever. If Phoenix wants a draft pick, then maybe. But, we both know Phoenix wants more than a draft pick so there's really nothing to discuss. If it happens, then so be it. Clarke has the power and the fans have no say. Comrie production this year has been small, but his ice time has been less than 13 minutes per game. Too many Phoenix fans are underestimating the ability of Comrie. If he was given the 16-18 minutes of ice time that other players of his ability are given, he would be putting up more points. Granted, Hitch had to ease him in slowly resulting from not playing, but after 20+ games this is rediculous. I just don't think Hitch likes Comrie's style. So, in a nutshell, Philly fans: 1) don't want Burke, 2) don't want to trade Comrie for Burke, 3) would live with trading Comrie for a need, but not Burke.

I thought the way I worded it was better than saying the Flyer fans are extremely pissed off and complaining excessively for a deal that has yet to be confirmed yet.

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02-08-2004, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan
I've got to give some credit to you scoob. Ever since the Coyotes and the Falcons severed ties, you seem to have exchanged blind hostility for acceptance and tolerance.
You hit the nail right on the head. In my zeal to see a winning team here in River City after numerous losing seasons and spirited conversation with my wife it's fair to say that I lost sight of the big picture; especially the economics of the situation. An olive branch is extended to all.

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02-08-2004, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoob4093
You hit the nail right on the head. In my zeal to see a winning team here in River City after numerous losing seasons and spirited conversation with my wife it's fair to say that I lost sight of the big picture; especially the economics of the situation. An olive branch is extended to all.
Well, I for one am certainly glad to have you on board. I hope you can continue to offer insight as a Coyotes' fan and no longer as a Coyotes' hater.

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02-09-2004, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan
Well, I for one am certainly glad to have you on board. I hope you can continue to offer insight as a Coyotes' fan and no longer as a Coyotes' hater.
Yep. Unfortunatley for us there's 2 months left in the season, the team is 12 games below .500 and would have to pass two teams that are both 14 points ahead of us just to finish 5th to get to play a best of 3 qualifier, all on the road, to make the playoffs. Don't want to contradict Yogi but it really is over. At this point I just hope Lennie plays about 80% or so of the remaining games; at his age the more work the better.One thing's for certain; When you play goal for this team you're guaranteed a great workout.

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02-09-2004, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyboucher24
Panic? Running for cover? Certainly not I. Simply put, Flyers fans don't want Burke. So, in a nutshell, Philly fans: 1) don't want Burke, 2) don't want to trade Comrie for Burke, 3) would live with trading Comrie for a need, but not Burke.
Aaaarrrgh! I'm fed up with Flyer fans complaining about trading Comrie for Burke. There has been next to no speculation of a straight-up deal. The deal as discussed, for Burke and Radivojevic, is fair, IMO. Branko fills a real need for the Flyers, at RW, while Comrie playing out of position has not been encouraging. WE GET BETTER WITH THIS TRADE, PEOPLE! Comrie's a more talented player than Branko, yes, but Radivojevic is a much better positional fit and improves the Flyers measurably this year.

The constant blather of "Flyer fans are this and this only" is the only thing that's grating about this process (it's been kind of fun around here for the past few days). Let me say that here's at least one Flyer fan who wants Burke at the right price, and thinks the deal as rumored is just that.

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02-09-2004, 10:45 AM
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I apologise if I have stereotyped Philly fans. I know they're not all the same.

Phoenix fans have suffered from being stereotyped as wanting Barrett Jackman and three 1st round picks for Burke so the less of it going on the better.

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02-09-2004, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevex
I apologise if I have stereotyped Philly fans. I know they're not all the same.

Phoenix fans have suffered from being stereotyped as wanting Barrett Jackman and three 1st round picks for Burke so the less of it going on the better.
Well, to be honest, most Flyer fans ARE looking like simpletons in this whole speculation. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard a Flyer "fan" talk about "trading youth for age" or "giving up all our prospects for a backup," I'd be drinking a frosty cold beer right now with the proceeds.

The stereotyping going on is being perpetrated as much BY Flyer fans as by anyone else.

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02-09-2004, 10:58 AM
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I also don't necessarily have a problem with the deal as it stands. Burke/Branko for Comrie. As a Flyers fan, I understand the whole process. Burke fits in well as a mentor for Esche. Burke is a different goalie than most Philly fans remember. Branko also fills a hole for the team at RW. As far as I'm concerned I just want Somik off the ice. Philly is also trading from a deep center position yet Comrie is the only one I would trade. Comrie has no choice but to play out of position on this team. He just doesn't fit the system as well as Handzus, Primeau and Roenick despite his high, high skill level. With Lapointe coming back and Patrick Sharp already showing he needs playing time, I just don't see where Comrie fits with Philly assuming he can't really play wing.

Would I love a 3rd player coming to the Flyers? YES. Would I love to have Sjostrom or Eager? Yes. To me, the Flyers still also have some depth at Defense, so I have no problem moving a defenseman to help acquire that other prospect.

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02-09-2004, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyboucher24
Panic? Running for cover? Certainly not I. Simply put, Flyers fans don't want Burke. Not for Comrie or whatever. If Phoenix wants a draft pick, then maybe. But, we both know Phoenix wants more than a draft pick so there's really nothing to discuss. If it happens, then so be it. Clarke has the power and the fans have no say. Comrie production this year has been small, but his ice time has been less than 13 minutes per game. Too many Phoenix fans are underestimating the ability of Comrie. If he was given the 16-18 minutes of ice time that other players of his ability are given, he would be putting up more points. Granted, Hitch had to ease him in slowly resulting from not playing, but after 20+ games this is rediculous. I just don't think Hitch likes Comrie's style. So, in a nutshell, Philly fans: 1) don't want Burke, 2) don't want to trade Comrie for Burke, 3) would live with trading Comrie for a need, but not Burke.


Please don't speak for all of us......some of us know better.

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02-09-2004, 11:51 AM
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Oh please enlighten me, oh great one. I am one of the biggest Bob Clarke supporters there is. I get into fights at work defending him all the time with my co-workers for some of the deals he had made over the years. I just can't accept this deal, as it is rumoured. When I said Burke for Comrie, that was just because they're the main ingredients. And yes, I wouldn't like it, but I could live with Comrie for Burke and Branko. But I don't want to include Seids. And yes, most other Flyers fans don't like the deal either. I'm sorry if I was speaking for all Flyers fans, but I do believe that I speak for most.

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02-09-2004, 12:40 PM
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Oh the Flyer fans they kill me.
Flyer fans have a memory of Burke in the playoffs many years ago. We coyote fans have more recent memory of Esche being an average, at best, backup to Burke.

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02-09-2004, 12:45 PM
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If Branko goes with Burke I might actually start rooting for the Philadelphia Coyotes.. sorry Flyers to win :p

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02-09-2004, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevex
If Branko goes with Burke I might actually start rooting for the Philadelphia Coyotes.. sorry Flyers to win :p
It doesn't matter how many players get traded there...I will never ever root for Philly. The only thing I could root for if someone like Sjostrom got traded would be for the individual to succeed, and to get traded somewhere else, moreover.

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02-09-2004, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZyotesphan
Oh the Flyer fans they kill me.
Flyer fans have a memory of Burke in the playoffs many years ago. We coyote fans have more recent memory of Esche being an average, at best, backup to Burke.


Is it possible that Yotes and Flyers fans could both be wrong? Maybe they've both improved. Seriously, if you were a Flyers fan how would you feel about giving up a 23 year old for a back up goalie?? Myself...I'm ok cause I know Burke "can" do the job...and there'll be more coming back our way.

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02-09-2004, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan
It doesn't matter how many players get traded there...I will never ever root for Philly. The only thing I could root for if someone like Sjostrom got traded would be for the individual to succeed, and to get traded somewhere else, moreover.


That's funny coming from a fan of our "B" team. Good luck in the playoffs.

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02-09-2004, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club
That's funny coming from a fan of our "B" team. Good luck in the playoffs.
Yeah, it's a damn shame not all teams can spend recklessly due to their current financial system, thus leading to a lockout...

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02-09-2004, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club
Is it possible that Yotes and Flyers fans could both be wrong? Maybe they've both improved. Seriously, if you were a Flyers fan how would you feel about giving up a 23 year old for a back up goalie?? Myself...I'm ok cause I know Burke "can" do the job...and there'll be more coming back our way.
OK fair point but I'd say Burke is not your average back up goalie.

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02-09-2004, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevex
OK fair point but I'd say Burke is not your average back up goalie.


Agreed...Hitch wouldn't think twice about putting him between the pipes in the playoffs should Esche falter either. Many fans are showing a blind faith in Esche right now...he's played well enough, but he's unproven at the playoff level. Many fans will say the same about Burke(can't really blame them as Burke has faltered in the playoffs) I hate to use A football player as an example but when Elway won his Super bowls he had a running game...so could Burke win with the Flyers in front of him?? I say yes, but only time will tell. He's a solid goalie and if he were under 34, this would probably be a straight up deal...as it stands Comrie straight up is a bit of an overpayment. Don't give in Clarkie

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02-09-2004, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan
Yeah, it's a damn shame not all teams can spend recklessly due to their current financial system, thus leading to a lockout...

Is that the best you can come up with? Phoenix can't spend what the Flyers can spend?? If that's the case, maybe Patrick Roy was right...maybe the NHL would be better off at 16-21 teams. If I were you I'd get used to it...because you get what you pay for...and we'll look forward to paying Shane Doan and Ladislav Nagy what they're worth...because you obviously wouldn't want to spend recklessly. If Phoenix can afford to spend like the Flyers, then it comes down to being committed to winning...we are and you aren't.

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02-09-2004, 04:49 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club
Is that the best you can come up with? Phoenix can't spend what the Flyers can spend?? If that's the case, maybe Patrick Roy was right...maybe the NHL would be better off at 16-21 teams. If I were you I'd get used to it...because you get what you pay for...and we'll look forward to paying Shane Doan and Ladislav Nagy what they're worth...because you obviously wouldn't want to spend recklessly. If Phoenix can afford to spend like the Flyers, then it comes down to being committed to winning...we are and you aren't.
When I said spend recklessly, I didn't mean signing guys like Doan and Nagy to contracts they deserve. I meant signing guys like Gratton and LeClair to contracts that they don't. It's contracts like those that have led to the mess the league is in today.

Also, keep in mind, the Coyotes have been in the desert for about 7 or 8 years or so now. The Flyers have been in Philly for about 35 now. The Coyotes do not yet have the fan base or the cash to build a team in the same mode the Flyers do. They need to do it the old fashioned way.


Last edited by PhoPhan: 02-09-2004 at 04:52 PM.
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02-09-2004, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan
When I said spend recklessly, I didn't mean signing guys like Doan and Nagy to contracts they deserve. I meant signing guys like Gratton and LeClair to contracts that they don't. It's contracts like those that have led to the mess the league is in today.

Also, keep in mind, the Coyotes have been in the desert for about 7 or 8 years or so now. The Flyers have been in Philly for about 35 now. The Coyotes do not yet have the fan base or the cash to build a team in the same mode the Flyers do. They need to do it the old fashioned way.


Firstly, sorry for sounding like a troll. I understand what you're saying...I do partly agree with you. Leclair is being paid what he is because he was so underpaid for so long. From what I remember?? Gratton's Philly contract was signing bonus heavy...Really with the exception of Leclair, most of our top players are in the 4-7 million dollar range. I think although we're in the spenders of the league...we can hardly be blamed for the state of the NHL...let's blame the Rangers. Just kidding, let's blame greedy players and agents...and Bettman, cause he can't skate but he runs the greatest league on Ice.

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