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Here's something amazing...

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Old
02-09-2004, 08:30 AM
  #1
Fletch
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Here's something amazing...

looking at the Knicks, they fire the GM, the coach, get rid of some dead wood, and then acquire a guy in a position they sorely have needed to fill for 10-25 years. What's the result? The team, whose record still isn't great, is about four games up in a playoff spot.

I wonder what would've happened if the Rangers fired Sather from both posts, hired a GM, got a decent coach, got rid of deadwood and acquired a guy in a position they really need?

Of course, for this season, it may be too late. But when it was done for the Knicks, had it been done for the Rangers, perhaps we'd be a bit better off.

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02-09-2004, 09:17 AM
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You're comparing apples to oranges, Fletch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
looking at the Knicks, they fire the GM, the coach, get rid of some dead wood, and then acquire a guy in a position they sorely have needed to fill for 10-25 years. What's the result? The team, whose record still isn't great, is about four games up in a playoff spot.

I wonder what would've happened if the Rangers fired Sather from both posts, hired a GM, got a decent coach, got rid of deadwood and acquired a guy in a position they really need?

Of course, for this season, it may be too late. But when it was done for the Knicks, had it been done for the Rangers, perhaps we'd be a bit better off.
While I'd have no problem getting rid of Sather, hockey, unlike basketball is about building a team. Heck, in the Dolan's mind, they've already traded for their impact player in Jagr. But, while Jagr is on the ice for at best, 20-25 minutes, Marbury plays upwards of forty minutes, and spends a lot of that time with the ball in his hands. In spite of the attempts to overcoach in basketball, it still comes down to star players. Marbury just makes everyone on that team better. I don't think there is a player in hockey who can suddenly solve the PP, PK, and backchecking problems in one fell swoop. The best thing for the Rangers this point is for the bottom to fall out over the next two weeks, while the Rangers play the likes of Jeresey, Philly (twice), Ottawa, Montreal, the IceHoles (twice) and the Thrashers.
Then Sather should do the right thing and start selling off the vets for picks and prospects, while the Rangers move closer to the top five of the upcoming draft.

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02-09-2004, 09:22 AM
  #3
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I know it's apples to oranges...

I'm just stating the effect of getting rid of, what I thought to be, a not-so-great coach and bringing in one with some experience, getting rid of a GM and bringing in a fresh face from the outside who's been watching the situation and has his ideas, getting a point guard, because that's a position that's sorely needed (akin to the Rangers getting a good defensive defenseman), and getting rid of some dead weight (akin to getting rid of Malakhov, Hlavac, etc.). I'm looking at a concept.

I do agree on the comparison to hockey to basketball though...it's a bit easier to build around 2-3 key guys when they're playing 85-90% of the game...but, it's also amazing what happens when you insert a Marbury, as opposed to, say, another shooting guard like Houston.

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02-09-2004, 09:28 AM
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I agree...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
I'm just stating the effect of getting rid of, what I thought to be, a not-so-great coach and bringing in one with some experience, getting rid of a GM and bringing in a fresh face from the outside who's been watching the situation and has his ideas, getting a point guard, because that's a position that's sorely needed (akin to the Rangers getting a good defensive defenseman), and getting rid of some dead weight (akin to getting rid of Malakhov, Hlavac, etc.). I'm looking at a concept.

I do agree on the comparison to hockey to basketball though...it's a bit easier to build around 2-3 key guys when they're playing 85-90% of the game...but, it's also amazing what happens when you insert a Marbury, as opposed to, say, another shooting guard like Houston.
that the Rangers could use the fresh energy and hunger of an Isiah Thomas (or, a young Neil Smith, perhaps?). And, getting rid of the dreck would certainly help. Yes, I'd rather see a Wiseman, Moore and Tjutin egtting ice time, and a Lundmark and Ortmeyer getting heavy ice time. I just don't think there is a quick fix for the Rangers.

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02-09-2004, 09:28 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
looking at the Knicks, they fire the GM, the coach, get rid of some dead wood, and then acquire a guy in a position they sorely have needed to fill for 10-25 years. What's the result? The team, whose record still isn't great, is about four games up in a playoff spot.

I wonder what would've happened if the Rangers fired Sather from both posts, hired a GM, got a decent coach, got rid of deadwood and acquired a guy in a position they really need?

Of course, for this season, it may be too late. But when it was done for the Knicks, had it been done for the Rangers, perhaps we'd be a bit better off.
I think that best point to be made by comparing the Knicks and Rangers is looking to the Knicks and seeing what a new regime can do to the team, the players and the fans; all seem more interested. Thomas came in and made some trades and hired a good coach.

However, if the Rangers made a trade like the Marbury trade we would have killed it. The Rangers gave up a lot of youth and a couple of picks.

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02-09-2004, 09:33 AM
  #6
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I assume you meant...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I think that best point to be made by comparing the Knicks and Rangers is looking to the Knicks and seeing what a new regime can do to the team, the players and the fans; all seem more interested. Thomas came in and made some trades and hired a good coach.

However, if the Rangers made a trade like the Marbury trade we would have killed it. The Rangers gave up a lot of youth and a couple of picks.
"The Knicks" gave up a lot of youth and a couple of picks. The difference is that, unless you get the franchise player in basketball (which means drafting in the top five), you don't really have a chance to jump up in basketball. While I don't know how good either Lampe or Vujanic will be, the each have a long way to go to be Marbury, who is playing like the best point guard in the NBA. In the NHL, those young players and picks are needed for organizational depth.


Last edited by jas: 02-09-2004 at 09:44 AM.
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02-09-2004, 09:34 AM
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I agree with that, Singin'...

although I'm still talking 'conccept', meaning the concept of bringing in a new face as GM, coach, as well as trading for positions the team needs, not what's available. Granted Jagr was a steal when you compare what was given up, but that in and of itself is meaningless without other moves. And would Poti + Carter have returned a decent defensive defenseman and a pick? I can't think who's out there but I do wonder if Sather's being passive and waiting for the phone to ring, or if he's out there searching for what this team needs and can't get it.

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02-09-2004, 09:40 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
"The Knicks" gave up a lot of youth and a couple of picks. The difference is that, unless you get the franchise player in basketball (which means drafting in the top five), you don't really have a chance to jump up oin basketball. While I don't know how good either Lampe or Vujanic will be, the each have a long way to go to be Marbury, who is playing like the best point guard in the NBA. In the NHL, those young players and picks are needed for organizational depth.

That's my point. One player does not make the difference in the NHL. We don't know how good Tyutin, Jessiman, Dawes, or Baranka will be but you don't see the fans calling for Sather to trade them.

My biggest point is the change in administration is better to look at as supposed to the change on the roster. The game has passed Sather by. The game never came to Layden. But a change at the top can have an affect on the team.

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02-09-2004, 09:44 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
although I'm still talking 'conccept', meaning the concept of bringing in a new face as GM, coach, as well as trading for positions the team needs, not what's available. Granted Jagr was a steal when you compare what was given up, but that in and of itself is meaningless without other moves. And would Poti + Carter have returned a decent defensive defenseman and a pick? I can't think who's out there but I do wonder if Sather's being passive and waiting for the phone to ring, or if he's out there searching for what this team needs and can't get it.

I agree with the idea of a new face.

I do think Sather is waiting for the phone to ring. To that point the majority of Sather's trade have been as much financial moves for the other team (if not more so.) On pure hockey trades, Sather has not done well. And I think at some point he realizes that. And it has made him gun shy. I have to believe that is the reason this team has dressed Dale Purinton, Joel Bouchard, Lawrence Nycholat and Jamie Pushor the last week or so. Everyone in the league know he needs a defenseman. Now they know he needs/wants a goalie too.

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02-09-2004, 09:48 AM
  #10
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I'd love to get into Sather's head...

but will say that thus far the trade he hasn't made has been his best one. I believe those four are in the lineup because Sather doesn't want to trade valuable youth. I should say I hope. If there was any time for a panic move to trade for a decent defenseman it was when Kaspar went down. And he didn't panic. Did bring in vet insurance in the form of Pushor (who's getting some time down in Hartford to get up to speed), but has let Dale play himself back into the lineup, and Bouchard has received decent playing time (isn't it about time Bouchard was traded...it was about this time he was traded last season).

We'll see if Sather was saving youth for one of the flawed goalies available.

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02-09-2004, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
but will say that thus far the trade he hasn't made has been his best one. I believe those four are in the lineup because Sather doesn't want to trade valuable youth. I should say I hope. If there was any time for a panic move to trade for a decent defenseman it was when Kaspar went down. And he didn't panic. Did bring in vet insurance in the form of Pushor (who's getting some time down in Hartford to get up to speed), but has let Dale play himself back into the lineup, and Bouchard has received decent playing time (isn't it about time Bouchard was traded...it was about this time he was traded last season).

We'll see if Sather was saving youth for one of the flawed goalies available.

I hope you're right.

I happen to think that they are still in the line up because Sather has not made a deal where he had to trade one of them. He did not have to include any of those four in the Jagr trade as the Rangers held all the the cards and the Caps needed to make a trade and the Rangers were the only ones at the table.

I thought Bouchard might go in the Jagr trade. Can you imagine that being traded twice in two seasons for Kovalev and Jagr by the same team?!?! :p

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02-09-2004, 10:12 AM
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I think that once...

the likes of Poti, Malakhov, DeVries and even Tjutin are healthy, we won't see any of the other guys in the lineup. (Until the the trades start coming fast and furious, that is. )

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02-09-2004, 10:16 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
the likes of Poti, Malakhov, DeVries and even Tjutin are healthy, we won't see any of the other guys in the lineup. (Until the the trades start coming fast and furious, that is. )
I could wait a long time before I need to see Poti or Maladog in the lineup. The defense is actually better if those 2 don't come back and their spots are permanently taken by Purinton and Bouchard. Bouchard has been 10x the player that Porta Poti has been.

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02-09-2004, 10:22 AM
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The bottom line is that when Sather took over he promised such things as making the Rangers younger right?
What happened with that?

What did Isiah promise? He said he would make the Knicks more atheltic and tougher.
What does he do?
Gets Norris for Spoon. Signs the Athletic Dermarr Johnson and trades for one of the toughest guys in the game in Stephon Marbury who is also very atheltic.

When you back your words up like that the fans believe in you and when they believe in the GM they start to believe in the team.

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