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Old
05-14-2008, 08:12 AM
  #26
TBFan
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
Naslund is past it now do we really want someone like that on our top line? Especially as he has seemed disinterested in Vancouver, and undoubtedly his family will be there I doubt he moves to Tampa. Satan? another bargain bin pick? You are saying not really a playoff team, if so is Vinny really going to want to sign the extension that keeps him in Tampa till retirement that we all want him to?
Naslund will cost too much. I really don't think Vinny will be signing an extension anytime soon.

Quote:
Also I would switch Ward with R2, as by the sounds of it he is coming back, the Russian leagues arent suited to him because of his style of play and because Ward is invisible.
The NHL did not suite his style of play either.

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05-14-2008, 09:45 AM
  #27
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Fair enough, just seems a bit strange to already claim people are out of the price range, when we dont even know what that range is?
It seems pretty obvious with the team about to be sold and the guy buying it having a hard time putting together the financing, that the range is on the bottom end of the spectrum.

Sure, things change, but right now high priced wings seem like a pipe dream.

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05-14-2008, 09:48 AM
  #28
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You'll see one of Miettinen or Dupuis here next year. Book it!

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05-14-2008, 10:14 AM
  #29
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I'd be ok with either of those guys, provided that isn't the only addition.

One thing about his financing that I'm not necessarily pessimistic about is how its structured. The fact that interest only payments are due, and not principal payments will allow for additional cash flow, to the tune of roughly 800k - 1 mil per month. That could allow for more to be spent on the team. Although I doubt we spend to the cap, I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll be around 48 mil. Only time will tell though.

It's not Koules fault that he cannot obtain financing... the current credit markets hurt him signifigantly in obtaining the loan. He already had it in place prior to the bank overseas pulling out of the lending business (Sports)... I blame current market conditions just as much if not more than the new owner's ability to put the funds together for the team.

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05-14-2008, 10:48 AM
  #30
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It's not Koules fault that he cannot obtain financing... the current credit markets hurt him signifigantly in obtaining the loan. He already had it in place prior to the bank overseas pulling out of the lending business (Sports)... I blame current market conditions just as much if not more than the new owner's ability to put the funds together for the team.
I would have preferred that his deal fell through and the group that I had heard about with their $360M in financing would have bought the team. For some reason, I'm more comfortable with the unknown ownership with $360M in their pocket than the movie producer that's probably borrowing money from his parents also.

I think we're looking at another year of "cheap". Fringe guys that the staff is familiar with like Craig and R2 will probably have a better chance making the team than a free agent. I hope I'm proven wrong, but I don't see anything that indicates otherwise.

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05-14-2008, 10:48 AM
  #31
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Naslund will cost too much. I really don't think Vinny will be signing an extension anytime soon.



The NHL did not suite his style of play either.
Yeah i forgot to mention the price as well. And yeah the NHL may not have suited his style of play but I reckon he will be a lot better this time round (if he signs again)

And as for cheaper top 6 forwards I would say Hagman and Kelly, if we are going cheaper but not bargain bin.

I reckon it depends on 1 what the team does in the draft and offseason 2 if the ownerships situation is sorted out 3 if there is any noticeable improvement in the team. If all of those occur i reckon he will be signed LONG term.

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05-14-2008, 02:10 PM
  #32
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Too Many Questions Yet

I think it is a little too early to say what the budget will be next year. I don't see Koules' difficulties resulting from his being a lending risk. He had secured financing from the French bank Societe' General. Then it was discovered a bank employee had embezzled about 7 billion dollars, that bank just about went under and withdrew its loan. Credit is tight right now and not many banks are lending to purchase sports teams, especially hockey teams that don't get the big TV revenues like that of the NFL, NBA and MLB.

Outside of Stamkos, I don't see the Bolts getting a third rounder (that's when they pick next) who can step right in and play. So the free agent market is your only salvation. Hagman, Miettinen and Kelly would all be good 2nd through 4 line pickups. I only see them getting Kelly to replace Halpern. And only if Gratton isn't resigned. Hagman and Miettinen would be good second line wingers.

But once the sale is approved in June, we will then know what the budget is. And that is in plenty of time before the free agent market is open for business.

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05-14-2008, 04:08 PM
  #33
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24. Kristian Huselius – 4. Vincent Lecavalier – 26. Martin St. Louis
10. Jussi Jokinen – 91. Steven Stamkos – 20. Antti Miettinen
21. Mathieu Darche – 77. Chris Gratton – 7. Michel Ouellet
74. Nick Tarnasky – 29. Craig MacDonald – 76. Evgeny Artyukhin
(12. Paul Szczechura – 49. Blair Jones – 16. Jason Ward
11. Jeff Halpern)

55. Shane O’Brien – 22. Dan Boyle
3. Michal Rozsival – 71. Filip Kuba
54. Paul Ranger – 39. Mike Lundin
(2. Alexandre Picard – 37. Brad Lukowich)

41. Mike Smith
31. Karri Ramo

Huselius, a typical sniper, enjoyed living in Florida when he played with the Panthers; Miettinen, an underrated all-arounder, knows his compatriot Jokinen very well since their time together in Dallas; Rozsival is a versatile defenseman -- useful in power play as well as box play -- who achieved great success paired with Kuba in the World Championship…

---

Huselius: 2 years/$4 million per
Miettinen: 2 years/$1.1 million per [2008/2009: $1 million; 2009/2010: $1.2 million]
Rozsival: 3 years/$4 million per

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05-14-2008, 04:15 PM
  #34
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I'd have a hard time giving Rozsival 4 million a year... though in this market, defenseman are going to be paid more than thier actual value. I suspect most D men will get more than thier "worth".

That said, I don't mind this for the most part. I'd rather us move Kuba and Lukowich, to free up room for Picard and Smaby....but I like Miettinen and Huselius... if we were going for 2nd tier free agents. Obviously Rolston/Malone would be preferred, but I think this could actually work out pretty well as you listed.


Last edited by Acehawk74: 05-14-2008 at 04:21 PM.
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05-14-2008, 04:25 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FruitsAndRoots View Post
24. Kristian Huselius – 4. Vincent Lecavalier – 26. Martin St. Louis
10. Jussi Jokinen – 91. Steven Stamkos – 20. Antti Miettinen
21. Mathieu Darche – 77. Chris Gratton – 7. Michel Ouellet
74. Nick Tarnasky – 29. Craig MacDonald – 76. Evgeny Artyukhin
(12. Paul Szczechura – 49. Blair Jones – 16. Jason Ward
11. Jeff Halpern)

55. Shane O’Brien – 22. Dan Boyle
3. Michal Rozsival – 71. Filip Kuba
54. Paul Ranger – 39. Mike Lundin
(2. Alexandre Picard – 37. Brad Lukowich)

41. Mike Smith
31. Karri Ramo
I wouldnt mind that roster at all... sounds good to me.

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Old
05-14-2008, 05:15 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FruitsAndRoots View Post
24. Kristian Huselius – 4. Vincent Lecavalier – 26. Martin St. Louis
10. Jussi Jokinen – 91. Steven Stamkos – 20. Antti Miettinen
21. Mathieu Darche – 77. Chris Gratton – 7. Michel Ouellet
74. Nick Tarnasky – 29. Craig MacDonald – 76. Evgeny Artyukhin
(12. Paul Szczechura – 49. Blair Jones – 16. Jason Ward
11. Jeff Halpern)

55. Shane O’Brien – 22. Dan Boyle
3. Michal Rozsival – 71. Filip Kuba
54. Paul Ranger – 39. Mike Lundin
(2. Alexandre Picard – 37. Brad Lukowich)

41. Mike Smith
31. Karri Ramo

Huselius, a typical sniper, enjoyed living in Florida when he played with the Panthers; Miettinen, an underrated all-arounder, knows his compatriot Jokinen very well since their time together in Dallas; Rozsival is a versatile defenseman -- useful in power play as well as box play -- who achieved great success paired with Kuba in the World Championship…

---

Huselius: 2 years/$4 million per
Miettinen: 2 years/$1.1 million per [2008/2009: $1 million; 2009/2010: $1.2 million]
Rozsival: 3 years/$4 million per
I like the lineup apart from a couple of things, firstly the only way I would be happy with picking up a fa dman is if we traded, Lukowich and or Kuba, as after Picards games with us I dont want to see him wasted as 7th dman, either let him play or put him in the AHL to get top pairing minutes.

Also I would personally prefer if Gratton doesnt come back, all he would be doing is acting as a stop gap and preventing Jones from getting a shot with the big club, I mean Torts hates him enough as is, so you dont want to give him excuses not to use him. Anyone think Mihalik has a shot to make it from training camp or is he going to need another year?

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05-14-2008, 05:25 PM
  #37
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Mihalik definatley has a shot, but he'll have to outplay 2 players to get here, from the Picard, Smaby, Lundin mix. While I think he has a shot, unless we move Luk AND Kuba, I doubt we see him here unless an injury occurs.

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05-14-2008, 08:24 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
I like the lineup apart from a couple of things, firstly the only way I would be happy with picking up a fa dman is if we traded, Lukowich and or Kuba, as after Picards games with us I dont want to see him wasted as 7th dman, either let him play or put him in the AHL to get top pairing minutes.

Also I would personally prefer if Gratton doesnt come back, all he would be doing is acting as a stop gap and preventing Jones from getting a shot with the big club, I mean Torts hates him enough as is, so you dont want to give him excuses not to use him. Anyone think Mihalik has a shot to make it from training camp or is he going to need another year?
I don't see them dealing Kuba or Luk. Kuba has his moments and does very well. He also has his fubar moments. Is he worth $3M, ehhh....that's not for us to decide. IMHO, I'd rather have the guy they understand than take a chance on someone entirely new and unproven. They like Luk for his experience and he can block shots like a beast. He's slower than Timmy the Turtle and I think that they use him differently next year due to that new knowledge. I see them rewarding Pickard with solid minutes in the NHL due to his performance after the trade.

I'm not sure if you're implying that Tortorella hates Jones or Gratton. As a 3rd/4th liner, Gratton is a known commodity. He's excellent in face-offs and parks his big hockey ass in front of the net on the power play. When Jones was up, they rarely gave him ice time. Something tells me that with the Halpern injury, we see Gratton signing a new deal and Jones gets another solid year in the AHL.

In conversations tonight at the Winghouse with Andreychuk, the talks with R2 and his agent seem to be reality. The fact that Gandler is still an ass and demanding a ransom for the player is also still a fact.

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Old
05-14-2008, 11:41 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FruitsAndRoots View Post
24. Kristian Huselius – 4. Vincent Lecavalier – 26. Martin St. Louis
10. Jussi Jokinen – 91. Steven Stamkos – 20. Antti Miettinen
21. Mathieu Darche – 77. Chris Gratton – 7. Michel Ouellet
74. Nick Tarnasky – 29. Craig MacDonald – 76. Evgeny Artyukhin
(12. Paul Szczechura – 49. Blair Jones – 16. Jason Ward
11. Jeff Halpern)

55. Shane O’Brien – 22. Dan Boyle
3. Michal Rozsival – 71. Filip Kuba
54. Paul Ranger – 39. Mike Lundin
(2. Alexandre Picard – 37. Brad Lukowich)

41. Mike Smith
31. Karri Ramo

Huselius, a typical sniper, enjoyed living in Florida when he played with the Panthers; Miettinen, an underrated all-arounder, knows his compatriot Jokinen very well since their time together in Dallas; Rozsival is a versatile defenseman -- useful in power play as well as box play -- who achieved great success paired with Kuba in the World Championship…

---

Huselius: 2 years/$4 million per
Miettinen: 2 years/$1.1 million per [2008/2009: $1 million; 2009/2010: $1.2 million]
Rozsival: 3 years/$4 million per
O'brien on the top d-pair? Methinks not. He's a #4 guy at best. Maybe Ranger on the top pair. Kuba and O'brien as the 2nd pair, and Lundin and Picard as the 3rd. I like Huselius and Miettinen though. I think Rozsival at $4 million would be a major flop. No way I do that deal. $2.8-3? Sure. I just don't think signing defenseman should be the priority. I'm sure Huselius will want more than 2 years on a deal though. He'll probably want 3-4. Maybe 3 years at $4 million per could get him here. Miettinen is about right.

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Old
05-15-2008, 12:34 AM
  #40
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Roszival at 4 million? No thanks. Roszival at all? No thanks. He's soft, and gives the puck up a lot, both of which our current D does as it is. He would be a Denis-esque flop, especially at 4 million/yr.

As for replacements for him, why not Jassen Cullimore? He's big, he is defensive, and he's inexpensive. He made 535k last year, bring him in for 1m. He's not a guy who will score goals, but that's not what our D needs. We have Boyle, Ranger, OB to an extent, and Picard to score. Cullimore is a good defenseman, and I'd rather bring him in over Rozy due to past experience in TB, as well as cost.

If not Cullimore, why Mike Commodore? He's big and agressive, and could probably had under 4m. If we are gonna spend 4m, why not go after a guy like JM Liles, or Jason Smith? I'd take both those guys around 3-4m in a heartbeat over Rozsival.

Thats my input. I don't want Rozsival...

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05-15-2008, 07:47 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FruitsAndRoots View Post
24. Kristian Huselius – 4. Vincent Lecavalier – 26. Martin St. Louis
10. Jussi Jokinen – 91. Steven Stamkos – 20. Antti Miettinen
21. Mathieu Darche – 77. Chris Gratton – 7. Michel Ouellet
74. Nick Tarnasky – 29. Craig MacDonald – 76. Evgeny Artyukhin
(12. Paul Szczechura – 49. Blair Jones – 16. Jason Ward
11. Jeff Halpern)

55. Shane O’Brien – 22. Dan Boyle
3. Michal Rozsival – 71. Filip Kuba
54. Paul Ranger – 39. Mike Lundin
(2. Alexandre Picard – 37. Brad Lukowich)

41. Mike Smith
31. Karri Ramo

Huselius, a typical sniper, enjoyed living in Florida when he played with the Panthers; Miettinen, an underrated all-arounder, knows his compatriot Jokinen very well since their time together in Dallas; Rozsival is a versatile defenseman -- useful in power play as well as box play -- who achieved great success paired with Kuba in the World Championship…

---

Huselius: 2 years/$4 million per
Miettinen: 2 years/$1.1 million per [2008/2009: $1 million; 2009/2010: $1.2 million]
Rozsival: 3 years/$4 million per

So what has changed from last year? You have Huselius instead of Prospal. I would prefer Prospal. Stamkos instead of Richards. I would perfer Richards. And you bring back the head case Artyukhin. None of the defensive pairings are a shutdown unit.


With that said, you have not improved your team from last year which was a last place team.

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Old
05-15-2008, 10:19 AM
  #42
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IMHO, I'd rather have the guy they understand than take a chance on someone entirely new and unproven.

I'm not sure if you're implying that Tortorella hates Jones or Gratton. As a 3rd/4th liner, Gratton is a known commodity. He's excellent in face-offs and parks his big hockey ass in front of the net on the power play. When Jones was up, they rarely gave him ice time. Something tells me that with the Halpern injury, we see Gratton signing a new deal and Jones gets another solid year in the AHL.

In conversations tonight at the Winghouse with Andreychuk, the talks with R2 and his agent seem to be reality. The fact that Gandler is still an ass and demanding a ransom for the player is also still a fact.
Yeah if the defense is young and improving I would rather go the whole way and totally renovate by removing the older players bar Boyle. Sure they will make mistakes, but they will improve as a unit, plus if anything we will be in a better position long term.

Yeah as for Tortorella hating Jones, I was implying it yes, I mean he was up with the club but was getting 30 seconds a game? Surely that shows you something, yet if he was good enough to get called up, why was he getting less minutes than everyone else on the team.

That is good news about R2 though, would be amazing if he was back next year, at a reasonable price of course.

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05-15-2008, 10:24 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by TBFan View Post
So what has changed from last year? You have Huselius instead of Prospal. I would prefer Prospal. Stamkos instead of Richards. I would perfer Richards. And you bring back the head case Artyukhin. None of the defensive pairings are a shutdown unit.


With that said, you have not improved your team from last year which was a last place team.
ha! not a non-contract year prospal.

although i agree. we wouldn't, and probably won't, make big changes. ownership and fans are banking on the fact that less major injuries and the goaltending changes will get them to the playoffs next year.

and you know what? there's absolutely no way to contest that, or really support it.

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05-15-2008, 06:15 PM
  #44
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You know what scares me most about this team next season is... with Halpern out... the lack of leadership. This team did far, far better with Halpern in the lineup and his hot streak aside, he seemed to emotionally carry guys who looked rather disinterested most of the season, which was more than Marty and Vinny seemed to do.

That said, I think Huselius gets 4.5 over 3-4 years in the offseason. Hossa is gonna be overpaid like a ***** too.

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05-15-2008, 10:50 PM
  #45
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ha! not a non-contract year prospal.
Why does that myth keep getting perpetuated? Did '05-'06 and a career high 80 points and, at the time, career high 25 goals not count?

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05-16-2008, 02:54 AM
  #46
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Naslund* - Lecavalier - St. Louis
Jokinen - Stamkos - Craig*
Darche* - Jones - Oullet
Tarnasky - MacDonald* - Ward
Halpern

Picard - Boyle
Ranger - Kuba
Obrien - Lundin
Lukowich/Smaby

Ramo
Smith
i don't know, i'd think that team would make the playoffs ok. any chance you guys could do a similar thing to the Penguins in 06/07 and turn it around?

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05-16-2008, 06:15 AM
  #47
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As for replacements for him, why not Jassen Cullimore? He's big, he is defensive, and he's inexpensive. He made 535k last year, bring him in for 1m.

Because he is slow and takes stupid penalties.

With Feaster's revolving door policy, I am sure it is in the realm of possibility...

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05-16-2008, 10:47 AM
  #48
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Why does that myth keep getting perpetuated? Did '05-'06 and a career high 80 points and, at the time, career high 25 goals not count?
I think the better explanation is he plays well every other year. In the last few years he'll hit 70+ points one year then follow it with a mid-50's point season.

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05-16-2008, 12:02 PM
  #49
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So what has changed from last year? You have Huselius instead of Prospal. I would prefer Prospal. Stamkos instead of Richards. I would perfer Richards. And you bring back the head case Artyukhin. None of the defensive pairings are a shutdown unit.


With that said, you have not improved your team from last year which was a last place team.
Pretty fragmental argumentation, IMO. Last year -- when Richards played with us -- we just had the Big 4. But now, by adding guys like Huselius, Miettinen and Stamkos -- plus having Jokinen from the start -- our rooster will be much more deep; we'll actually have two or maybe three lines that are capable of scoring.

Moreover, with Rozsival would our defensive core look much better. And I also prefer Smith/Ramo to Holmqvist/Denis...

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05-16-2008, 01:54 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by matt1 View Post
Jussi Jokinen-Vinny Lecavalier-St. Louis
?????-Stamkos-??????
Darche-Halpern-Michael Ouellet
Tarnasty-Macdonald?-R2(hopefully he is brought back)

Boyle-Ranger
Obrien-Lundin
Smaby-Mihalik(if he is ready)

Ramo Smith




Hopefully fatvoy trades away Kuba and Lukowich idc what he gets, and any suggestions for wingers for Stamkos??
Your already assuming you have Stamkos?

careful.

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