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THN Prospect Rankings

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Old
02-09-2004, 04:52 PM
  #26
craig1
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This is another screwed up ranking. Fleury, Stall, Horton, Zherdev not in the top 50?????? The list has others on it who have played in the NHL like Michalek? This list is totally screwed up.

Ryan Whitney at 34? With the people missing off the list, he should definately be around 10 to 15! What, leading your college team (Boston U) in scoring as a defenseman means a drop in rankings, especially given that his defensive performance has improved over the last year too????


Last edited by craig1: 02-09-2004 at 04:55 PM.
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Old
02-09-2004, 04:56 PM
  #27
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Ouch, Sully and Harding are pretty low, I don't know...What do you guys think

And Koivu should be lower...

 
Old
02-09-2004, 04:56 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1
This is another screwed up ranking. Fleury, Stall, Horton, Zherdev not in the top 50?????? The list has others on it who have played in the NHL like Michalek? This list is totally screwed up.

Ryan Whitney at 34? With the people missing off the list, he should definately be around 10 to 15!
Probably because these guys saw extended time in the NHL, whereas Michalek suffered a severe injury after only 2 games...

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Old
02-09-2004, 04:59 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountie
Interesting list...I'm very surprised to see Kesler at 14...heck, I'm surprised to see him in the top 40 at all.
yeah, I'm more surprised at the fact they've never heard of Kirill Koltsov, those bostonards. :mad:

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Old
02-09-2004, 04:59 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchLeafsfan
Probably because these guys saw extended time in the NHL, whereas Michalek suffered a severe injury after only 2 games...

The point being, they need to be consistent. If they see the league, they are off the list, or make it under 22, or whatever! You could make the argument about injury for Horton as well...or for MAF for being back in Juniors. There is no consistency!

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:02 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Its Canadian team biast to the bone, I think the rankings suck.
well to be fair, only one of the top 13 players is property of a Canadian club (admittedly I just scanned it quickly)...although I"ll agree the bottom half of the rankings is possibly over represented with property of Canadian teams

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:02 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Its Canadian team biast to the bone, I think the rankings suck.

Suglobov should have been there, but it is easy to overlook 'older' prospects. Pavel Vorobiev falls into this category as well. This list definitely seems to favour the young, especially from the most recent draft.

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:08 PM
  #33
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I don't see how Carter and Parise can be ranked ahead of Milan Michalek, and in Parise's case, Ryan Suter either. Did Pierre McGuire make up this list?

They did get #1 correct, at any rate.

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:10 PM
  #34
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Parise should be outside top 10 and Suglobov should be somewhere after Perezhogin, I like to match those two together

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:15 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Parise should be outside top 10 and Suglobov should be somewhere after Perezhogin, I like to match those two together
I think Parise could be low top 10 or high top 15 but not at the expense of a few guys listed under him. Also, how did Kesler make the top 15? Sure he's seen some NHL ice-time, but is that really all it takes to pass roughly half of his draft class?

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:16 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1
The point being, they need to be consistent. If they see the league, they are off the list, or make it under 22, or whatever! You could make the argument about injury for Horton as well...or for MAF for being back in Juniors. There is no consistency!

I just noticed Upshall on the list too. He has seen almost the # of games (15) as Zherdev (31) and MAF (22).....no consistency at all!

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:17 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Maybe if you didn't act as arrogant as you do then people might choose to treat you with a little more respect. You don't really deserve much respect at this point based on your behaviour in other threads. Ever heard of the golden rule? If you aren't interested in acting with more respect towards other posters then you should be the last person to whine about your treatment.

My point still stands though, perhaps it is you who underrates them? Surely you aren't accusing THN's process of being biased towards Detroit? A non-team affiliated prospect ranking comes out and the first thing out of your mouth is to try and get everyone to agree that Detroit's prospects (your division rival) are overrated?

Do you have any concept of how that looks to a thread browser such as myself? And I for one didn't see your evidence as to why they were overrated so it makes your demands to see evidence from me look a little hypocritical does it not?

If you want a fight with me, take it to PM's. If you want to seriously debate the merits of the list then let's see YOUR evidence. If you want to take shots at the prospects of a divisional rival then others will call you on it until you provide some solid evidence.

But right now all we've got is a Degroat drive-by where he claims that we should all agree the Red Wings prospects are overrated. Pretty sure I know how you would respond to a similar post attacking the Blues prospects...

Reply to the post? I sure did. The post was lacking substance and appeared to me to be an attack on a division rival. How else could one construe it when you leave so much to the imagination?
If what you were looking for was the reasoning behind my claim that Detroit's prospects were rated too highly then perhaps you should have attacked my opinion and not me? What you did makes you no better than what you acuse me of doing. It's quite amusing that you tell me to take it to PM's while you have made two posts in this thread attacking me. Perhaps you should have taken both of your posts to PM's?

As for the reasoning...

13. Igor Grigorenko - Maybe he is worthy of the 13th rating, but I just don't see it. After further inspection of the list I noticed that a number of players that have played in the NHL this year such as Fleury aren't included, so perhaps he is.

22. Niklas Kronwall - The Blues have a simarly aged player in Christian Backman who has had more success at the NHL level than Kronwall at this point. In a recent thread on this very website the two players were compared and most seemed to think they were quite similar both in progress and potential. So, either Backman is seriously underrated or Kronwall is seriously overrated or, both.

23. Jiri Hudler - I'm sorry if I have a hard time believing that a player that was passed up by every team in the NHL before getting taken by Detroit 2 years ago is the 23rd best prospect in the league. Yes, 2 years is enough time to move well up the rankings but he hasn't really accomplished anything to prove he's worthy of a 23rd ranking.


I think there is definately a tendency to give Detroit the benefit of the doubt because of the development of Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

One last thing... I'm waiting for your attack of RallyKiller for posting an equally substanceless post attacking a team.

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:17 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Parise should be outside top 10 and Suglobov should be somewhere after Perezhogin, I like to match those two together

If Sugs is there, I wanna see Shishkanov there as well. Maybe bump Hudler and Nederost for both Shish and Sugs.

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:20 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1
I just noticed Upshall on the list too. He has seen almost the # of games (15) as Zherdev (31) and MAF (22).....no consistency at all!
Usually they base it on who appears to be in the NHL for good when they do their rankings. MAF had not yet been sent down when they were working on this, hence his not being included.

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:24 PM
  #40
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Interesting that 4 out of the top 6 (Miller, Vanek, Parise, Suter) are products of the NCAA.

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:25 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1
I just noticed Upshall on the list too. He has seen almost the # of games (15) as Zherdev (31) and MAF (22).....no consistency at all!
At the time the list was made, Zherdev and MAF were playing in the NHL. Upshall was not playing in the AHL.

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:25 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11
Usually they base it on who appears to be in the NHL for good when they do their rankings. MAF had not yet been sent down when they were working on this, hence his not being included.
He was sent down nearly 2 weeks ago! 2 weeks is a long time to make corrections before going to press.

All that they would need to do is insert him where they arbitrarily feel he belongs, than move every one down one spot, bumping #50 off the list. This was probably done in Excel or a similar program to make it easy to make changes as it is. It would have taken 10 minutes to debate and make the changes....assuming the debate on where to rank MAF lasted 9 minutes and 50 seconds.


Last edited by craig1: 02-09-2004 at 05:29 PM.
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Old
02-09-2004, 05:29 PM
  #43
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Not one single Carolina Hurricane. No Cam Ward, Magnus Kahnberg, Tomas Malec, Danny Richmond, or Mike Zigomanis. You would think that they would at least put one of those guys on the list for consistancy purposes. But I just simply can't understand Cam Ward being under Josh Harding on every one of these lists. He was drafted lower, Cam won WHL tender of the year at a younger age, and he stats are just out of this world. I don't see how a goaltender at the age of 20 that almost won a job out of camp wouldn't make the top 50 list of prospects. It's just insane.

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:32 PM
  #44
Jason MacIsaac
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How is Rita still on the list........lol I'm sorry but that is just sick.

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:36 PM
  #45
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Bruins with three

11.Toivonen (Yaaaaaaaaaaa!)
21.Stuart ( Thats about right)
49.Morrisonn (should be higher since he is playing awesome)

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:37 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
One last thing... I'm waiting for your attack of RallyKiller for posting an equally substanceless post attacking a team.
Weak arguments against the Detroit prospects all around. About what I was expecting. Nothing really to debate there, you didn't give a convincing argument for either of them.

"LOL... even Red Wings fans have to admit that their prospects are seriously overrated on this." - Degroat

"Why is Jiri Hudler rated so high?" - RallyKiller

You can't see the difference there? You have to be kidding me. One is asking why a prospect is so high. The other is arrogantly proclaming that Red Wings prospects are overrated on this list and that everybody has to agree, even Wings fans. Don't insult the intelligence of the posters on this board by trying to suggest that these are similar.

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:41 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever
Not one single Carolina Hurricane. No Cam Ward, Magnus Kahnberg, Tomas Malec, Danny Richmond, or Mike Zigomanis. You would think that they would at least put one of those guys on the list for consistancy purposes. But I just simply can't understand Cam Ward being under Josh Harding on every one of these lists. He was drafted lower, Cam won WHL tender of the year at a younger age, and he stats are just out of this world. I don't see how a goaltender at the age of 20 that almost won a job out of camp wouldn't make the top 50 list of prospects. It's just insane.
I don't see why Kahnberg's not in the top 50... possibly because of age?

Neither of the others deserve to be there.

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:42 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever
Not one single Carolina Hurricane. No Cam Ward, Magnus Kahnberg, Tomas Malec, Danny Richmond, or Mike Zigomanis. You would think that they would at least put one of those guys on the list for consistancy purposes. But I just simply can't understand Cam Ward being under Josh Harding on every one of these lists. He was drafted lower, Cam won WHL tender of the year at a younger age, and he stats are just out of this world. I don't see how a goaltender at the age of 20 that almost won a job out of camp wouldn't make the top 50 list of prospects. It's just insane.
For consistency purposes? They put the prospects they think are the best outside of the NHL. I'm not sure what your point is, are you suggesting they'll give at least one spot to each NHL team?

Ward vs. Harding. Just a question but maybe the quality of their linemates might have played into their stats and accomplishments? As for being drafted lower, we all know that doesn't mean anything in the end. Krahn was drafted higher than either of them but you don't see any Calgary fans complaining about that. "Almost" winning a spot is also quite irrelevant.

I don't really see any insanity in this case. Have you watched a lot of both Harding and Ward and take exception because you really think Ward is the better goaltender or are you just defending your prospect because he's your prospect?

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:42 PM
  #49
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Nice to see 15 Americans on the list.

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Old
02-09-2004, 05:43 PM
  #50
craig1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
How is Rita still on the list........lol I'm sorry but that is just sick.
Another whose seen time in the NHL.....I would really like to see their criteria! If they said it is only for those who have seen zero NHL action, fine, I can accept that, but there is no consistency here.

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