HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Prospects
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

THN Prospect Rankings

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-10-2004, 04:45 PM
  #101
Doomsday Device
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gary Coleman's Finishing School for Doomsday Devices
Posts: 2,464
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by West
Don't laugh to hard. Last year I said that Bergeron might be worth looking at in the second round and everyone here said I was reaching and the he was a 3rd rounder at best.
That's still in the top 100 though. But I get what you're saying.

Doomsday Device is offline  
Old
02-10-2004, 05:22 PM
  #102
Jason MacIsaac
MARS Officer
 
Jason MacIsaac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,476
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Jason MacIsaac Send a message via Yahoo to Jason MacIsaac
What a pile of crap, I seen that line play twice together and OSullivan was way faster then Eaves and Kesler..I don't know which games you were watching.

Jason MacIsaac is offline  
Old
02-10-2004, 07:21 PM
  #103
thestonedkoala
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Why does Koivu look like a bust?

 
Old
02-10-2004, 07:22 PM
  #104
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,072
vCash: 500
I must say i'm SHOCKED to see Kesler at #14.

monster_bertuzzi is offline  
Old
02-11-2004, 11:42 AM
  #105
#44_delivers
Registered User
 
#44_delivers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,009
vCash: 500
THN sucks,
i mean when 30 out of your 50 or so writers are from one city you know it has many blind sites.

btw i think sugolobov(sp) should have made the list, and phaunuf lower.


Last edited by #44_delivers: 02-11-2004 at 12:22 PM.
#44_delivers is offline  
Old
02-11-2004, 06:00 PM
  #106
Howard35
Registered User
 
Howard35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,267
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Howard35
Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
LOL... even Red Wings fans have to admit that their prospects are seriously overrated on this.
Not really. Grigorenko still has a lot of potential, although i think 13 yes is high, top20 isnt.

Kronwall is in perfect spot. He was thrilling to have on our blueline and looked like a top3 dman actually. 6 pts in what 22 gms playing every now and then with limited minutes, i think thats pretty good.

Hudler is 20 now, early 20's, wasnt awesome yet in the NHL, but in the AHL the kid has over a ppg i believe, so you cant argue that too much.

Howard35 is offline  
Old
02-11-2004, 06:10 PM
  #107
Howard35
Registered User
 
Howard35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,267
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Howard35
Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
If what you were looking for was the reasoning behind my claim that Detroit's prospects were rated too highly then perhaps you should have attacked my opinion and not me? What you did makes you no better than what you acuse me of doing. It's quite amusing that you tell me to take it to PM's while you have made two posts in this thread attacking me. Perhaps you should have taken both of your posts to PM's?

As for the reasoning...

13. Igor Grigorenko - Maybe he is worthy of the 13th rating, but I just don't see it. After further inspection of the list I noticed that a number of players that have played in the NHL this year such as Fleury aren't included, so perhaps he is.

22. Niklas Kronwall - The Blues have a simarly aged player in Christian Backman who has had more success at the NHL level than Kronwall at this point. In a recent thread on this very website the two players were compared and most seemed to think they were quite similar both in progress and potential. So, either Backman is seriously underrated or Kronwall is seriously overrated or, both.

23. Jiri Hudler - I'm sorry if I have a hard time believing that a player that was passed up by every team in the NHL before getting taken by Detroit 2 years ago is the 23rd best prospect in the league. Yes, 2 years is enough time to move well up the rankings but he hasn't really accomplished anything to prove he's worthy of a 23rd ranking.


I think there is definately a tendency to give Detroit the benefit of the doubt because of the development of Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

One last thing... I'm waiting for your attack of RallyKiller for posting an equally substanceless post attacking a team.
A little biased against detroit eh? Grigorenko i can see your aguement on since he's hurt, but the kid has skill and only time will tell if he still has it.

Kronwall has had a TON of nhl success. Backman might have better "stats" because he recieved more quality ice time then Kronwall. Kronwall gets very limited ice time.
In 20 games, kronwall played on the 3rd pairing, little PP time, and recieved 5 pts, and a +5 rating, also getting 13:51 on average in ice time.
Backman has 2 times exactly more games played, 12 pts, and averages 17:07 in ice time, which is little more then 3 minutes more per game, which is a difference maker, and i assume with al and barrett out, he plays the pp unit, since he has only 2 pp assists on that, but im sure he gets more pp time then kronwall. You can argue that kronwall playing as a 4th dman, getting more time, 3 more minutes, and playing 20 more games, i could tell you that he'd have simular stats or maybe better stats then backman, since he was finally comming into a zone, only took him a few games or so.

Hudler has had success at EVERY level he's played at. He made the czech league look like a joke, gets a PPG in the AHL in his first season in N.A and as a 20 yr old rookie in that league. Thats why hudler is ranked so low. He's learned most of the game and is strongly getting better as time goes on. Next year if he gets a call up he'd probably be a lot better offensively.

Howard35 is offline  
Old
02-11-2004, 06:17 PM
  #108
thestonedkoala
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Hey Zett, that sounds like Wallin, he has had success every level he played at, especially in NA and I'm not complaining that he isn't any higher.

 
Old
02-11-2004, 06:28 PM
  #109
looooob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,886
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
Hey Zett, that sounds like Wallin, he has had success every level he played at, especially in NA and I'm not complaining that he isn't any higher.
Wallin is nearly 4 years older though no? I'm not saying that Hudler should be higher by any means, but I think there is a difference between Hudler and Wallin in age that can't be ignored at this stage in their development

looooob is offline  
Old
02-11-2004, 07:15 PM
  #110
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 44,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
Why does Koivu look like a bust?
Because he's not a Leafs prospect.

Jussi is offline  
Old
02-11-2004, 07:26 PM
  #111
thestonedkoala
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by looooob
Wallin is nearly 4 years older though no? I'm not saying that Hudler should be higher by any means, but I think there is a difference between Hudler and Wallin in age that can't be ignored at this stage in their development
Yeah roughly...but Wallin has taken a while...I'm not saying Hudler isn't better then Wallin but Wallin has also shown a lot of success in every place he has played

His upside though is only a number 2 center.

 
Old
02-11-2004, 08:11 PM
  #112
CRAZY_FAN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Québec
Posts: 592
vCash: 500
35-Ouellet
36-Krajicek

Ouellet is winning in the NHL and Krajicek is playing and putting points on the board, why are they so high ??????

CRAZY_FAN is offline  
Old
02-11-2004, 09:01 PM
  #113
hbk
Registered User
 
hbk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,910
vCash: 500
Does anyone have the team list? Are the issues already in store?

hbk is offline  
Old
02-12-2004, 09:01 AM
  #114
Howard35
Registered User
 
Howard35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,267
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Howard35
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
Hey Zett, that sounds like Wallin, he has had success every level he played at, especially in NA and I'm not complaining that he isn't any higher.
Id have to agree with the other poster. Wallin is a lot older and as i dont know when he really came over to the AHL, hudler came in as a 19 yr old, he's not barely 20 and still having success at the next level (the next level after the czech league/russian super league)... the next level he needs to suceed at is ofcourse is now the NHL, and i think he will do so.

Howard35 is offline  
Old
02-12-2004, 10:19 AM
  #115
degroat*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: http://nhl.degroat.n
Posts: 8,108
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40
Kronwall has had a TON of nhl success. Backman might have better "stats" because he recieved more quality ice time then Kronwall. Kronwall gets very limited ice time.
In 20 games, kronwall played on the 3rd pairing, little PP time, and recieved 5 pts, and a +5 rating, also getting 13:51 on average in ice time.
Backman has 2 times exactly more games played, 12 pts, and averages 17:07 in ice time, which is little more then 3 minutes more per game, which is a difference maker, and i assume with al and barrett out, he plays the pp unit, since he has only 2 pp assists on that, but im sure he gets more pp time then kronwall. You can argue that kronwall playing as a 4th dman, getting more time, 3 more minutes, and playing 20 more games, i could tell you that he'd have simular stats or maybe better stats then backman, since he was finally comming into a zone, only took him a few games or so.
I've watched both Backman and Kronwall play a number of times and I would be VERY surprised if either turned out to be significantly better than the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by =zetterberg40
Hudler has had success at EVERY level he's played at. He made the czech league look like a joke, gets a PPG in the AHL in his first season in N.A and as a 20 yr old rookie in that league. Thats why hudler is ranked so low. He's learned most of the game and is strongly getting better as time goes on. Next year if he gets a call up he'd probably be a lot better offensively.
The number of players that have been successful on every level despite their lack of size and then couldn't turn into anything more than a 20 goal scorer at the NHL level is very long. Perhaps he will turn out to be a great NHL Player but if he was property of almost any other team he wouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt that Wings' prospects get. That's why I think he's ranked too high.

As for being biased against the Wings, you really couldn't be any more wrong. I said in the middle of last year that Datsyuk was one of the ten centers in the league. I've always given the top players on the Wings the respect they deserved. I hate 'em. But I give them their due respect. I'm one of the very few Blues fans that you'll find that will give McCarty credit.

degroat* is offline  
Old
02-12-2004, 01:17 PM
  #116
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cookeville TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,550
vCash: 500
I'll say this about Kronwall and Backman. Stats mean jack squat, both are rookies, but there situations are radically different. Kronwall plays with one of the best defenses in the league and is on the third pairing. In other words, he is not facing the other teams top lines and if he is on the PK, he is on the second unit at best. This kid has to face the other teams scrubs, with a solid d-partner, for roughly 14 mins a night. In all honesty, this is a perfectly ideal situation to bring up a young d-man in the league. Relatively no pressure. Backman on the other hand is playong on a team that is decimated with injuries, the majority of which, is on their blueline. The Blues defense is far worse in comparison to the Red Wings. In other words, Backman is playing around 18 mins a night (if not more now), facing the other teams top lines, and has little to rely on from his defensive partners. I'm not saying either on is better, but you can't ignore some of these basic points about each players situation.

If I'm wrong on some of my observations, sue me. I can't follow either team as much as I'd like, but this is what I have gathered in what I have seen. Personally, I have liked Backman better this season . He also didn't go down with injury as quick as Kronwall did. Injuries with youngsters is a very important situation to factor in as well. Whats the use of a kid with enormous talent, who is fragile as glass (i.e. Tomas Kloucek).

Enoch is offline  
Old
02-12-2004, 01:23 PM
  #117
King of Stankonia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: aka Kubina_Fan Blues fan in Ontario loving Calgary
Posts: 762
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to King of Stankonia
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40
Hudler has had success at EVERY level he's played at. He made the czech league look like a joke, gets a PPG in the AHL in his first season in N.A and as a 20 yr old rookie in that league. Thats why hudler is ranked so low. He's learned most of the game and is strongly getting better as time goes on. Next year if he gets a call up he'd probably be a lot better offensively.
Success by a player at levels that aren't the NHL doesn't guarantee success at the NHL. Blues fans need to look only to their roster for that.

Petr Cajanek was the Czech Extraleague Player of the Year in 2001-02 and has had very little to show for it at the NHL level. Eric Boguniecki excelled at the high school, college, and AHL levels and has one season of acceptable NHL results to show for it. Blues fans will also remember Daniel Corso who lit the QMJHL on fire and just before being called up by the Blues was scoring more than a point a game with Worcester. He has one assist in seven games with the Atlanta Thrashers this year.

The trend is that all of these guys have had success elsewhere, but all are also under 6-0 200. I'm not saying that just because a player is small that he cannot succeed in the NHL, but it is certainly a hindrance to many.

King of Stankonia is offline  
Old
02-12-2004, 01:39 PM
  #118
Howard35
Registered User
 
Howard35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,267
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Howard35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubina_Fan
Success by a player at levels that aren't the NHL doesn't guarantee success at the NHL. Blues fans need to look only to their roster for that.

Petr Cajanek was the Czech Extraleague Player of the Year in 2001-02 and has had very little to show for it at the NHL level. Eric Boguniecki excelled at the high school, college, and AHL levels and has one season of acceptable NHL results to show for it. Blues fans will also remember Daniel Corso who lit the QMJHL on fire and just before being called up by the Blues was scoring more than a point a game with Worcester. He has one assist in seven games with the Atlanta Thrashers this year.

The trend is that all of these guys have had success elsewhere, but all are also under 6-0 200. I'm not saying that just because a player is small that he cannot succeed in the NHL, but it is certainly a hindrance to many.
But the fact that he's still very young and cuold play 2-3 more years in the AHL before worrying about the NHL and still have a ton of success. The kid has been golden in the AHL this year. In detroit he was only not good because he wasnt playing with anyone who possesses skill, he was a 4th liner playing at the time mostly with guys like mowers and robinson. Now hudler and robinson might have chemistry in the AHL, but i didnt see much of it at the NHL level. I for one am definitly not writing him off yet.

Howard35 is offline  
Old
02-12-2004, 01:40 PM
  #119
Howard35
Registered User
 
Howard35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,267
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Howard35
Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
I've watched both Backman and Kronwall play a number of times and I would be VERY surprised if either turned out to be significantly better than the other.


The number of players that have been successful on every level despite their lack of size and then couldn't turn into anything more than a 20 goal scorer at the NHL level is very long. Perhaps he will turn out to be a great NHL Player but if he was property of almost any other team he wouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt that Wings' prospects get. That's why I think he's ranked too high.

As for being biased against the Wings, you really couldn't be any more wrong. I said in the middle of last year that Datsyuk was one of the ten centers in the league. I've always given the top players on the Wings the respect they deserved. I hate 'em. But I give them their due respect. I'm one of the very few Blues fans that you'll find that will give McCarty credit.
Well it seams that everytime i hear you comment on something about the redwings your ripping on them, so i must have missed the datsyuk thing

Howard35 is offline  
Old
02-12-2004, 02:50 PM
  #120
King of Stankonia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: aka Kubina_Fan Blues fan in Ontario loving Calgary
Posts: 762
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to King of Stankonia
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40
But the fact that he's still very young and cuold play 2-3 more years in the AHL before worrying about the NHL and still have a ton of success. The kid has been golden in the AHL this year. In detroit he was only not good because he wasnt playing with anyone who possesses skill, he was a 4th liner playing at the time mostly with guys like mowers and robinson. Now hudler and robinson might have chemistry in the AHL, but i didnt see much of it at the NHL level. I for one am definitly not writing him off yet.
I'm just saying that the odds don't favour Hudler becoming a superstar or even becoming a regular at the NHL level. Just remember that for every Pavel Datsyuk there's a Daniel Corso, a Steve Kariya, and a Bob Wren.

King of Stankonia is offline  
Old
02-12-2004, 04:19 PM
  #121
Hockeycrazed07
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Buena Vista, VA
Posts: 2,361
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Hockeycrazed07 Send a message via AIM to Hockeycrazed07 Send a message via Yahoo to Hockeycrazed07
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40
Hudler has had success at EVERY level he's played at.
Really? What'd he do in the RSL?

(I'm anything but a Detroit basher, for the record. In fact, I generally look at them as the cream of the crop for drafting low and getting results...merely pointing out an oversight.)

~Crazed.

Hockeycrazed07 is offline  
Old
02-13-2004, 02:28 AM
  #122
Epsilon
#TeamHolland
 
Epsilon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Florence, SC
Posts: 36,604
vCash: 500
Why exactly did Backman vs. Kornvall become an issue anyway? As far as the list goes, Kronvall should be on it and Backman shouldn't be, and here's why: Kronvall is ONLY getting playing time with the Wings because of injuries, otherwise, even though he's quite good right now and an NHL-calibre player, he would be down in Grand Rapids. Backman on the other hand is good enough right now IMO to be a top 6 d-man on the Blues even if all their injured guys were back. Hence, he doesn't belong on this list because he's graduated to the NHL, the same way Joni Pitkanen doesn't belong on it. Kronvall on the other hand is still just a temporary NHLer for this season, and will need to win his spot in the lineup when everyone gets healthy before he can really be considered an NHL regular.

Epsilon is offline  
Old
02-14-2004, 12:36 AM
  #123
Brain Hemorrhage
Registered User
 
Brain Hemorrhage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,431
vCash: 500
List seems heavily biased towarts North Americans....

Brain Hemorrhage is offline  
Old
02-14-2004, 06:12 AM
  #124
Brodeur
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 12,332
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by #44_delivers
THN sucks,
i mean when 30 out of your 50 or so writers are from one city you know it has many blind sites.

btw i think sugolobov(sp) should have made the list, and phaunuf lower.
Suglobov ended up being #55 on their list. So basically he's in the general vicinity of where you thought he'd be.

Brodeur is offline  
Old
02-14-2004, 07:43 AM
  #125
KM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 210
vCash: 500
Quote:
13. Igor Grigorenko[/b] - Maybe he is worthy of the 13th rating, but I just don't see it. After further inspection of the list I noticed that a number of players that have played in the NHL this year such as Fleury aren't included, so perhaps he is.
he was ranked 9th last year, and deserved it. he had a car accident that left some questions, but he has shown all of the signs of bouncing back. he even played some games about a month ago, before having to have the rod removed from his foot. all signs indicate he's well on his way to making a speedy and otherwise fine recovery. development will no doubt be hindered some, but that's not to say that he won't reach the same potential (or even higher, because of a newly required level of perseverance that will be brought out.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
22. Niklas Kronwall - The Blues have a simarly aged player in Christian Backman who has had more success at the NHL level than Kronwall at this point. In a recent thread on this very website the two players were compared and most seemed to think they were quite similar both in progress and potential. So, either Backman is seriously underrated or Kronwall is seriously overrated or, both.


backman: 3g/9a in 41 games. +4. 24 in 2.5 months. 17min/game. 110 minutes on the PP.

kronwall: 1g/4a in 20 games. +5. just turned 23. 14min/game. only played 8 minutes on the PP the whole time.

i don't know about your thread, but kronwall spent the early part of the season in the minors because of the wings' depth. has backman really accomplished all that much more? before he broke his leg on the laughable socal ice, he was fitting in just like he was a veteran.

Quote:
23. Jiri Hudler - I'm sorry if I have a hard time believing that a player that was passed up by every team in the NHL before getting taken by Detroit 2 years ago is the 23rd best prospect in the league. Yes, 2 years is enough time to move well up the rankings but he hasn't really accomplished anything to prove he's worthy of a 23rd ranking.
size. he's like 5'7. at 19 he was not ready to come to the NHL but they brought him over after grigorenko's accident. played a few games, didn't do much with very limited ice time. at any rate, he has 33pts in 31 games in the minors so far and is a +16, just turning 20, still weak and adjusting to north america.

i'm not scout, and i'm also a wings fan, so i can't say for sure whether or not they're overrated. just expressing my opinion.

how's sejna doing, btw?

KM is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:23 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.