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Old
02-09-2004, 11:34 PM
  #1
Lowetide
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Trade Deadline Decisions for Kevin Lowe

There is a lot about the Edmonton Oilers to like: the organization has spent 2000-2004 bringing in quality young talent (Hemsky, Torres, York, Brewer, Semenov, you know the list) that should result is solid finishes and some playoff success later in the decade.

Previous to this season, every deadline for the GM since he took over has been a case of making deals to trim dollars without killing the team. We can argue about his relative success or failure, but for the most part the stated goals (playoffs, survival, good young nucleus) have been reached.

Kevin Lowe has proven to be better at acquiring talent than organizing it into a quality team. Although there's certainly talent here, huge holes (PP, goal, center) are overwhelming the positives. This, added to the continuing development of teams in Calgary, Nashville and Phoenix, PLUS the quick turnaround in San Jose leaves the Oilers on the outside looking in.

After all the talent procurement that has taken place since Lowe took over in the summer of 2000, it is finally time to mold that talent into something that resembles balance.

Want an example? Well, it's not quite a parallel but there are similarites. In the spring of 1994, at the deadline, Neil Smith had a pretty nice team in New York. The Ranger coach, Mike Keenan, had been hired to bring Stanley to NYC.

All season long, the team (although successful) seemed to lack something. Keenan felt it was grit and proven veterans. Smith wanted to hold on to his terrific young players.

On March 21, 1994, Neil Smith:

1. Traded Todd Marchant to Edmonton for a proven checking line center with superior faceoff skills (Craig MacTavish).

2. Traded Mike Gartner to Toronto for Glenn Anderson, giving Mark Messier his old winger and inspiring a weary Anderson (plus linemate Adam Graves).

3. Traded Tony Amonte to Chicago for veteran winger Brian Noonan and Stephane Matteau. Noonan played very well on the checking line after being acquired (with MacT and Esa), and Matteau played tougher under Keenan and scored a HUGE goal in the playoffs.

4. Traded Peter Andersson to Florida for a pick.

5. Traded Phil Bourque to Ottawa for something they still haven't received.


That's a helluva deadline day. The Rangers rode Messier, Larmer, Leetch and Richter, plus the ex-Oilers and had some young talent like Kovalev and won the whole damn thing.

That's sort of what Lowe needs to do, except of course he's much farther back on the curve. Lowe's job this deadline day isn't to put a team over the top, it's to give it some kind of direction.

He has to gather up his trading chips, Jason Smith, whatever winger he wants to let go of (Smyth-Dvorak-Isbister), Cross or Ulanov, maybe Chimera, maybe Rita, maybe the Flyers' #1, and get:

1. a center for his team.

2. a powerplay quarterback.

3. a goalie who can give Conklin some relief this season and the next one played.


If he doesn't do that, then he needs to let his coach off the hook, and the (undermanned) players too, and call off the season.

Because with a depth chart at center of Oates, Stoll, Horcoff and Bishai, the #29pk and #30PP (according to my HN from last week), Conklin and a shaky Salo in net, there's not much except prayer left for this team.

If Lowe is true to his word and doesn't touch the foundation of this (good young) team, the playoffs are lost.

Right?

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02-09-2004, 11:45 PM
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Slats432
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I agree with you lowetide. They should make some moves. But I think that subtlety is the key here. If Manny Fernandez is available, the he is exactly the type of guy that would fit here.

What bothers me is that Vancouver, St. Louis, Philly, Tampa, Phoenix all seem to be able to make moves to change the make up of their team while we sit here wondering why Lowe has done the bare minimum this year to keep the team afloat.

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02-09-2004, 11:53 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
I agree with you lowetide. They should make some moves. But I think that subtlety is the key here. If Manny Fernandez is available, the he is exactly the type of guy that would fit here.

What bothers me is that Vancouver, St. Louis, Philly, Tampa, Phoenix all seem to be able to make moves to change the make up of their team while we sit here wondering why Lowe has done the bare minimum this year to keep the team afloat.
Exactly. What's that line from Shawshank Redemption? "Get busy living, or get busy dying."

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02-10-2004, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
I agree with you lowetide. They should make some moves. But I think that subtlety is the key here. If Manny Fernandez is available, the he is exactly the type of guy that would fit here.

What bothers me is that Vancouver, St. Louis, Philly, Tampa, Phoenix all seem to be able to make moves to change the make up of their team while we sit here wondering why Lowe has done the bare minimum this year to keep the team afloat.
And if you don't know why those teams can make face altering deals then I don't think you understand the Oilers situation to the smallest degree.


Also, I think it's purely idiotic for anybody to think about trading Dvorak (barring an overpayment). Radek has been perfect here in Edmonton!!!! Damn it, the guy should be in consideration for the Selke!!!! He is an absolute amazing +18!! Look at the gusy ahead of him in that category:
Bertuzzi - +25 - his +/- is because of his scoring and team
Tanguay - +23 - see Bertuzzi
Draper - +20 - great defensively, also helped by a powerhouse team too
Rucinsky - +20 - what a 360 by him, but he's been solid
St. Louis - +19 - see Tanguay
Sedin - +19 - like Draper, but not as good
Maltby - +18 - see sedin
Holik - +18 - should probably win

Now looking at that list, Guys like Bertuzzi, Tangauy, and St. Louis are eliminated for obvious reasons. That leaves Draper, Rucinsky, Sedin, Maltby, and Holik. Draper and Maltby are obviously beneficiaries of having the leagues best blueline behind them and playing on a powerhouse, and the same thing to a lesser degree goes for Sedin. So really, to me, that leaves Holik, Rucinksy, and Dvorak. Peca could probably get in that list as well. But to me, Dvorak hasn't gotten NEARLY enough credit for his defensive play this year. on top of that he's on pace for a 50 point season. I guess this is kind of off track, but I've seen people mention Dvo's name a few times now today, and to be honest I think it's retarded. He is also pretty cheap, and ONLY 26!!!!!!!!!!! Dvo is a keeper!! To me he's going to be a Jere Lehtinen type, but ALOT more exciting, and with ALOT better puck moving skills (maybe not quite as good defensively).

My rant is done

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02-10-2004, 01:28 AM
  #5
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agreed

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02-10-2004, 01:29 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Exactly. What's that line from Shawshank Redemption? "Get busy living, or get busy dying."
I like that movie.

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02-10-2004, 01:51 AM
  #7
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Who we need.........

OUT:

Smith, Horcoff, Ferguson, Salo, Rita, Picks, Brewer*, Smyth*, Laraque, Oates

(*=only in blockbuster team changing deals for elite players)

IN:

Guys like.......

Vik Kozlov, Kristian Huselius, Mika Noronen, Brent Johnson, Freddy Modin, Vinny Lecavalier*, Sergei Gonchar, Maxim Afinogenov, Tim Connolly(inj.) Antoine Vermette, Mike Fisher(inj.), Dainius Zubrus, Mark Parrish (inj.), Justin Papineau, Paul Martin, Pavel Kubina, ETC.

In short, a big skilled center, a pure scoring winger, a young goalie, and maybe a d-man, although I like us there. Also threw in some guys who would be much better bit-parts than some of the guys we have now.

(*only available in a blockbuster)

Key deal for me would be if you could somehow move Salo for a pick or something, then get Brent Johnson for a draft pick. STEAL. And saving cash of course. I'd honestly think the Oilers could trade for and then afford to sign Sergei Gonchar if they handle things correctly.

BE SURE TO KEEP (unless there's a shockingly good deal):

York, Dvorak, Moreau, Staios, Cross, Reasoner, Ulanov (because they're excellent guys to have around, I could see Cross moving though, I want Ulanov to be a asst. Coach here some day)

Hemsky, Torres, Bergeron, Stoll, Chimera, Semenov, Salmelainen, Conklin (because they're the future of this franchise at this point. Chimera and Conklin maybe less so, but I believe they will develop big-time)


The rest I'm pretty indifferent to, even though I like some of them as players.


Last edited by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1: 02-10-2004 at 01:57 AM.
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Old
02-10-2004, 03:59 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Key deal for me would be if you could somehow move Salo for a pick or something, then get Brent Johnson for a draft pick. STEAL.
Nope. Johnson has major consistency issues and has a reputation for being a headcase. Not to mention he cleared waivers about a month ago. I'd definitely look someplace else.

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02-10-2004, 05:13 AM
  #9
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i dont think Salo can be moved for a pick, his contract is just too large for anyone to take. Sorry we're stuck with Tommy until he turns into Hasek then we might get something for him.

Gotta agree with Lowetide with one exception, no number one centre at the trade deadline UNLESS he is going cheap. they are already too expensive and its something i'd consider getting from the draft.

With all these trade offers to Phoenix flying around I wouldn't mind if Lowe could get Sjostrom, I know he's another winger but he could be a great promising player ideal for our third line (he really has a 1st line but is a two way player with great offensive prowess)

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02-10-2004, 05:19 AM
  #10
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Good post LT. My only beef is that Lowe shouldn't wait until the trade deadline. Although an exciting day for us fans, I think the NHL trade deadline is a farce, way to late in the season. Especially for the Oilers who, unlike others team probably won't be acquiring seasonned veterans who will be able to addapt to their new surroundings and teamates more quickly than a young player. We've seen this in the past with York and Isbister, where they were still getting used to the team in the 15 games after they were traded.

For some reason, I think Lowe has a plan and already knows how it's gonna go down. Why he's waiting (maybe injuries) is beyond me.

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02-10-2004, 07:07 AM
  #11
Mr Sakich
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if lowe is building for the long term, then a goalie should be in his radar. Someone like Garon would fit the bill. We need a number one centre until niniimaki / Pouliott/ Brodziak are players. Lowe has shown the ability to pick up free agents to fill holes (Ulanov, Staios, Oates for example)

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02-10-2004, 08:14 AM
  #12
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Excellent post as always LT.

Here's a few deals that may fill in some holes:

Smyth for Markov and Garon

The Oilers get a good young cheap PP d-man who has a bright future IMO and a good young goalie who I feel is ready to be a starting goalie.

Smith for Antropov

Now I know some of you are hesitant about trading for Nik but I think he'd be a great addition. He's young, cheap, has excellent skills, and plays with a nice edge. He may never be sakic or Sundin, but I think he's more then capable of going 30g 60pts 100pim and being a nice #1 center for us. The risk is his injuries but so far he hasn't been hurt this year and they say he's getting stronger and has a excellent work ethic. Sometimes you take a chance in a deal and I would be willing to for Antropov.

Thoughts?

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02-10-2004, 08:51 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Who we need.........

IN:

Guys like.......

Vik Kozlov, Kristian Huselius, Mika Noronen, Brent Johnson, Freddy Modin, Vinny Lecavalier*, Sergei Gonchar, Maxim Afinogenov, Tim Connolly(inj.) Antoine Vermette, Mike Fisher(inj.), Dainius Zubrus, Mark Parrish (inj.), Justin Papineau, Paul Martin, Pavel Kubina, ETC.

In short, a big skilled center, a pure scoring winger, a young goalie, and maybe a d-man, although I like us there. Also threw in some guys who would be much better bit-parts than some of the guys we have now.

(*only available in a blockbuster)

Key deal for me would be if you could somehow move Salo for a pick or something, then get Brent Johnson for a draft pick. STEAL. And saving cash of course. I'd honestly think the Oilers could trade for and then afford to sign Sergei Gonchar if they handle things correctly.
.
Nice list LMHF1. I agree with you on most of it. The one bee in my bonnet the last 2 years is how Calgary has afforded Iginla and we have dealt away all our decent players. If the Oilers had Iggy 2 years ago he'd be playing for the Flyers or Rangers by now.

The Oilers are probably on par with finances from last year take out the playoffs and add the HC and they are probably very similar. That said they have the money NOW to go get an impact player to get them over the hump.

Where is the loyalty to the fans of 2003-2004. Frozen to the seats of Commenwealth Stadium? We deserve a run to the playoffs like no other. With the war of 2004 coming the certainty of the Oilers is in jeopardy. They need to rally fan support in a huge way. Get Gonchar and Modin and turn the PP around now. Dump some draft picks to Washington. The farm is doin just fine. We have enough picks to get what we need.

SPEND SOME MONEY!

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02-10-2004, 09:16 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future consideration
Excellent post as always LT.

Here's a few deals that may fill in some holes:

Smyth for Markov and Garon

The Oilers get a good young cheap PP d-man who has a bright future IMO and a good young goalie who I feel is ready to be a starting goalie.

Thoughts?
Sold That deal would be beneficial to both clubs. As A Hab fan I'd be reluctant to let Markov go. He's struggled this season, but a lot of that can be attributed to the illness of his father back in Russia. Word has it he's been very distracted. He's very gifted offensively and average defensively though not physical. Smyth is what Montreal hasn't been able to draft or develop themselves....a hard-nosed forward with scoring touch that isn't a dwarf. You have to give to get.

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02-10-2004, 09:39 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Keenan felt it was grit and proven veterans. Smith wanted to hold on to his terrific young players.
Only thing I disagree with your post Lowetide is that Smith waa willing to move a couple of preemo young players that year, Amonte to Chi for Larmer and Noonen I believe and Doug Weight to Edm for Esa Tikkannen. Good moves not something I necessarily advicate with our team but if you get the right fit everyone should be available.

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02-10-2004, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by thome_26
And if you don't know why those teams can make face altering deals then I don't think you understand the Oilers situation to the smallest degree.
And if you don't understand that a team like St. Louis can aquire Weinrich for future considerations, and Boston can acquire Slegr for nothing then you don't understand that Lowe is sitting on his hands not making any moves and watching the season fade away while he does nothing.

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02-10-2004, 09:56 AM
  #17
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The Habs and the Oilers trade is very intresting. The Canadians are really thin on talent on the LW- I can see them wanting Ryan Smyth to play on the same line with Ryder (rw) and Ribeiro (c). What a deadly scoring line that would be! However who does the Canadians have to give up?

Joe Juneau and Yanic Perreault are both at centre, which the Habs have depth right down the middle. Perreault earns this year 2,800,000 $U.S.- Juneau 2,025,000 $U.S. Perreault being the better player for talent and being the younger player of the two centre's, he is a better fit.

To add a new twist to this I would package:

Smyth, Cross,+Reasoner + 2 round pick for

Yanic Perreault (c),Pierre Dagenais(lw), + Craig Rivet(d)or Andrei Markov(d) and a first round pick . Smyth being the best player out of this deal a 1st round pick kind of evens things a bit.

I like Rivet for his offensive style to his game a much needed boost in this area, and Andrei Markov for his toughness and good PP skills, as well Dagenais well lets face it the kid is Height: 6-5, Weight: 215 and he has 31 games- 10g, 7a= 17pts,+ 7 not bad for a young winger.

Forget about anybody else on the Habs even guys like Garon. They are thin on goalies if anything happens to Jose. So if Garon was traded and Theodre ends up with an injury, How will the Habs fill a tender position?

So the Oilers get a decent centreman, not the big power forward type that I would rather see but Yanic sure brings in the talent at a position that has a huge gaping hole. A power playing defenceman (Markov) which the Oilers missed when Janne Niinimaa left. A young winger with size and good potential. Plus another first round pick; which gives the Oilers 3 in total in this years draft.

And Thats how I see it.

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02-10-2004, 10:16 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
And if you don't understand that a team like St. Louis can aquire Weinrich for future considerations, and Boston can acquire Slegr for nothing then you don't understand that Lowe is sitting on his hands not making any moves and watching the season fade away while he does nothing.
We don't need another 5 or 6 dman, so these examples really don't mean much.

We need a top centre and a really good PP quarterback, that is a tougher trade than getting Weinrich for a fifth round draft pick, wouldn't you say?

That means that two players that the Oilers didn't need were available that is all it means.

A week before the trade deadline and finanlly three trades are made, two of them very minor and Lowe is suddenly doing nothing.


Last edited by hockeyaddict101: 02-10-2004 at 10:20 AM.
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02-10-2004, 10:18 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
And if you don't understand that a team like St. Louis can aquire Weinrich for future considerations, and Boston can acquire Slegr for nothing then you don't understand that Lowe is sitting on his hands not making any moves and watching the season fade away while he does nothing.
weinrich was aquired for nothing because he is old, slow, makes 3.0 Mill and is washed up (according to philly fans). Who would we play him ahead of? The only guy I could think of is Fergusson and weinrich battling it out for the coveted #8 spot.

Slegr was having a real poor season before the move to Boston. It has worked out but just about every gm in hockey could have had him for nothing and passed.

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02-10-2004, 10:55 AM
  #20
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Weinrich could play ahead of Cross

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
weinrich was aquired for nothing because he is old, slow, makes 3.0 Mill and is washed up (according to philly fans). Who would we play him ahead of? The only guy I could think of is Fergusson and weinrich battling it out for the coveted #8 spot.

Slegr was having a real poor season before the move to Boston. It has worked out but just about every gm in hockey could have had him for nothing and passed.
and three million at this point in the season is what, 900,000 K or so?

And that Habs deal is the worst I ever heard of. Perrault is a sulk and Rivet is no great shakes and who says Daganais isn't having a Warren Young type year, minus Mario as the set up of course

What a terrible deal that would be for Edm. If Mtl doesn't want to give up Garon plus Komm or Higgins, then shag the lot of them. That should be Lowe's stance. He's gone far too long without acquiing a real centre or some kind of passable goaltending.

Time for Lowe to dump or get off the pot.

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02-10-2004, 11:23 AM
  #21
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People please, I mentioned Weinrich and Slegr for a reason. thome said that, "Oh the Oilers can't make moves because this that, the other thing, the Oiler situation."

Well those teams can make moves, fill needs, fill holes. It sure is great for someone to say well all the other teams passed on the guy. Well Bobby Clark and Mike Barnett and Larry Pleau and Mike O'Connell seem to think these small moves might make a difference.

Are we at the point where we would all rather sulk at our terrible situation rather than at least make the attempt to do something about it.

I want a better powerplay. Now that Adam Oates is a bust, ship him to NJ so they have a face off specialist for futures and take the money and move it elsewhere. Like maybe Andy Delmore is the answer, I don't know....but I tell you one thing. Doing nothing is not the answer.

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02-10-2004, 11:36 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
People please, I mentioned Weinrich and Slegr for a reason. thome said that, "Oh the Oilers can't make moves because this that, the other thing, the Oiler situation."

Well those teams can make moves, fill needs, fill holes. It sure is great for someone to say well all the other teams passed on the guy. Well Bobby Clark and Mike Barnett and Larry Pleau and Mike O'Connell seem to think these small moves might make a difference.

Are we at the point where we would all rather sulk at our terrible situation rather than at least make the attempt to do something about it.

I want a better powerplay. Now that Adam Oates is a bust, ship him to NJ so they have a face off specialist for futures and take the money and move it elsewhere. Like maybe Andy Delmore is the answer, I don't know....but I tell you one thing. Doing nothing is not the answer.
But who says they are not. Basically three trades were made. 27 teams were not involved in those trades.

So to argue that Lowe is not going to make any moves is a little ridiculous at this juncture IMO.

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02-10-2004, 11:50 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
But who says they are not. Basically three trades were made. 27 teams were not involved in those trades.

So to argue that Lowe is not going to make any moves is a little ridiculous at this juncture IMO.
But there is just a small number of teams that are in the position the Oilers are: Out of the playoffs but with a chance of making it. We can't look at the 27 other teams. The trade deadline could be too late for Lowe to make a move. It has to be done now or within the next week. I think somethings up but who knows. I realize it's not easy to make a deal, but Lowe does have some assets he sell to other GMs.

Teams that have needs will make a deal happen. The Oilers have needs, they had them since early december and not a whole lot has happened since then.

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02-10-2004, 11:57 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
But there is just a small number of teams that are in the position the Oilers are: Out of the playoffs but with a chance of making it. We can't look at the 27 other teams. The trade deadline could be too late for Lowe to make a move. It has to be done now or within the next week. I think somethings up but who knows. I realize it's not easy to make a deal, but Lowe does have some assets he sell to other GMs.

Teams that have needs will make a deal happen. The Oilers have needs, they had them since early december and not a whole lot has happened since then.
Yes the Oilers have needs but that doesn't mean other teams are just going to jump and meet them?

The Oilers needs aren't small either, so it is not going to be easy to make that kind of deal.

It is easy to jump on Weinrich for a 5th round pick and say, see wasn't that easy.

ALL we want is a first line impact centre and a really good PP quarterback. These are not easy holes and to be honest I don't even know if that is even available but Lowe has to try.

I am sure the Smyth and Smith for prospects and younger players is more available but Lowe is looking for help for the playoff drive.

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02-10-2004, 12:02 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantic
The Habs and the Oilers trade is very intresting. The Canadians are really thin on talent on the LW- I can see them wanting Ryan Smyth to play on the same line with Ryder (rw) and Ribeiro (c). What a deadly scoring line that would be! However who does the Canadians have to give up?

Joe Juneau and Yanic Perreault are both at centre, which the Habs have depth right down the middle. Perreault earns this year 2,800,000 $U.S.- Juneau 2,025,000 $U.S. Perreault being the better player for talent and being the younger player of the two centre's, he is a better fit.

To add a new twist to this I would package:

Smyth, Cross,+Reasoner + 2 round pick for

Yanic Perreault (c),Pierre Dagenais(lw), + Craig Rivet(d)or Andrei Markov(d) and a first round pick . Smyth being the best player out of this deal a 1st round pick kind of evens things a bit.

I like Rivet for his offensive style to his game a much needed boost in this area, and Andrei Markov for his toughness and good PP skills, as well Dagenais well lets face it the kid is Height: 6-5, Weight: 215 and he has 31 games- 10g, 7a= 17pts,+ 7 not bad for a young winger.

Forget about anybody else on the Habs even guys like Garon. They are thin on goalies if anything happens to Jose. So if Garon was traded and Theodre ends up with an injury, How will the Habs fill a tender position?

So the Oilers get a decent centreman, not the big power forward type that I would rather see but Yanic sure brings in the talent at a position that has a huge gaping hole. A power playing defenceman (Markov) which the Oilers missed when Janne Niinimaa left. A young winger with size and good potential. Plus another first round pick; which gives the Oilers 3 in total in this years draft. And Thats how I see it.

.
Not to nitpick, but I've seen pretty well every Hab game the past several years.Ribeiro and Ryder do not play together. Rivet's PP and offensive skills are not good at all and Dagenias is a soft floater with a big shot. Perreault has great hands and is the best faceoff man in the NHL, but he's also soft, slow, a defensive liability and very streaky. He's also a UFA. Markov is not tough. Not even close. I don't think Montreal would have any use for Reasoner or Cross.

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