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Trade Deadline Decisions for Kevin Lowe

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Old
02-10-2004, 05:00 PM
  #51
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Oh right, I forgot, coming to HF is all about gladhanding yes men/women, that will back the beloved K-Lo regardless of how pukey the season becomes.

I am glad to see this undying support for the "Goodfellas" will remain no matter what the results have been.

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02-10-2004, 05:01 PM
  #52
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Thanks digger. I was just responding to spaz's original reply which asked "No, Smith is not an UFA after this season. Why do people keep thinking this?" I simply thought i'd reply to him and give my reasons for the assumption.

Not that any of this matters, CBA will probably change everything.

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02-10-2004, 05:04 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco Grande
Thanks digger. I was just responding to spaz's original reply which asked "No, Smith is not an UFA after this season. Why do people keep thinking this?" I simply thought i'd reply to him and give my reasons for the assumption.

Not that any of this matters, CBA will probably change everything.
Fair enough...and who knows how the CBA is going to affect all of this anyway.

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Old
02-10-2004, 05:07 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
For Minnesota and Atlanta, you should go and reread my post. As expansion franchises they don't have much ability to deplete their resources with short term fixes. They have to develop talent from within to be successful. And right now, I would pay more money to watch the Thrashers than the Oilers and if you see the Oiler's future as bright as having Kovalchuk, Heatley, Lehtonen, Exelby and Coburn, please name their Edmonton Oiler counterparts.

Not every GM is the same, and not every circumstance is the same. But maybe you should ask some of their fans, why they aren't making any moves.

In my opinion, K-Lo has sat too long and let this season become a waste without enough effort into correcting the Oilers problems.
I agree Atlanta has a bright future and doesn't want to sacrifice that future to maybe grab on to 8th. That argument sounds familiar? Same argument I made about the Oilers. So obviously you believe that there are no moves Atlanta could make NOT sacrificing their future but would help them now? But you don't believe the same about the Oilers. Isn't that just a little bit hypocritical.?

I Also don't the Oilers also have to build from within to build for their future, so again I ask you, why Atlanta has the built in excuse of building for their future and not sacrificing their young talent but the Oilers don't get that benefit?

You are very good at finding EXCUSES for other teams not making moves. Do you have some for Buffalo, Florida, Carolina as well?

Yes each team has different circumstances but only Kevin Lowe is lazy

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02-10-2004, 05:22 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
Yes each team has different circumstances but only Kevin Lowe is lazy
Why do you feel the need to use the statement Kevin Lowe is lazy? If you are saying that I said that, please point it out, because I am pretty sure I didn't.

But you are obviously a K-Lo supporter. Great, things are rosy. The future is bright. The Goodfellas will rule forever.

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02-10-2004, 05:22 PM
  #56
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I don't see what Lowe could have done. You have to give to get, but once he gives up Smith/Smyth/Dvorak/Brewer/whatever, all the fans will be up in arms. Just like the trade deadline all over again.

Even most of the trade proposals on these boards don't help the Oilers today anyway, for many reasons. I just don't see the big hurry to get something done. Lowe making a trade doesn't necessarily make this team better.

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02-10-2004, 05:25 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Seachd
I don't see what Lowe could have done. You have to give to get, but once he gives up Smith/Smyth/Dvorak/Brewer/whatever, all the fans will be up in arms. Just like the trade deadline all over again.

Even most of the trade proposals on these boards don't help the Oilers today anyway, for many reasons. I just don't see the big hurry to get something done. Lowe making a trade doesn't necessarily make this team better.
Trade proposals are crap. Everyone who makes them tries to ravage the other guy while benefiting their own team....

And why bother making any moves. I am glad where we are. I am glad the playoffs won't cut into my golf season.

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02-10-2004, 05:31 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Trade proposals are crap. Everyone who makes them tries to ravage the other guy while benefiting their own team....

And why bother making any moves. I am glad where we are. I am glad the playoffs won't cut into my golf season.
So you have no ideas of your own? It's hard to criticize Lowe for not doing anything if no one can think of anything to be done.

I'm personally glad Lowe isn't sacrificing the future for a very outside chance at making the playoffs. I see it this way - the Oilers have the same chance of making the playoffs now as they would have if Lowe had made a couple moves. I don't see how it could be any other way.

Trading Smith or Smyth or Brewer for example won't make this team better this year, no matter what the return is. And trading core youth might not be very wise. Then all your left with is fringe players - they won't help this team, in the same way getting a "roster player" for Comrie wasn't going to.

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02-10-2004, 05:49 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Oh right, I forgot, coming to HF is all about gladhanding yes men/women, that will back the beloved K-Lo regardless of how pukey the season becomes.

I am glad to see this undying support for the "Goodfellas" will remain no matter what the results have been.
I have to agree, sometimes I feel this board has too many rose coloured glasses on as it concerns K-Lowe. I'm not complaining its by far the most enjoyable, knowledgable board out there though. What bugs me the most is when Oiler spin is recited as gospel e.g. we're building for the post CBA world, the Weight trade was uneven because Dougie limited the teams he would play for.

As I see it K-Lowe had the following strengths and weaknesses

Strength

- Lets his scouts do there job and has put together a pretty good scouting team
- Shows no fear of pulling the trigger has confidence in himself
- Accessible and accountable to the media and fans

Weakness
- When it comes to evaluating NHL talent he's throwing darts, and its hit and miss
- Has no long term plan that I can see, I don't buy the "post CBA" crap, if that was the case why did he sign Oates, let Salo depreciate, not maximize return on Marchant.
- Has too much affinity for role players/pluggers
-bit of a hot head, a GM shouldn't get into public fights with players

That's just my honest opinion, its not a I'm bitter Toddy's gone call. He maybe scores average for his last 4 years and on a low budget team average managing = no playoffs.

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02-10-2004, 06:03 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
I have to agree, sometimes I feel this board has too many rose coloured glasses on as it concerns K-Lowe. I'm not complaining its by far the most enjoyable, knowledgable board out there though. What bugs me the most is when Oiler spin is recited as gospel e.g. we're building for the post CBA world, the Weight trade was uneven because Dougie limited the teams he would play for.

As I see it K-Lowe had the following strengths and weaknesses

Strength

- Lets his scouts do there job and has put together a pretty good scouting team
- Shows no fear of pulling the trigger has confidence in himself
- Accessible and accountable to the media and fans

Weakness
- When it comes to evaluating NHL talent he's throwing darts, and its hit and miss
- Has no long term plan that I can see, I don't buy the "post CBA" crap, if that was the case why did he sign Oates, let Salo depreciate, not maximize return on Marchant.
- Has too much affinity for role players/pluggers
-bit of a hot head, a GM shouldn't get into public fights with players

That's just my honest opinion, its not a I'm bitter Toddy's gone call. He maybe scores average for his last 4 years and on a low budget team average managing = no playoffs.
Lowe did not get into a fight with Comrie. Comrie and his agent opened their yappers and basically said Comrie wanted out of Edmonton. Comrie is the one who fought with the GM. Lowe on numerous occasions said Comrie was a good kid and wanted to sign him. Why is Lowe the devil here and Comrie the angel?

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02-10-2004, 06:12 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Lowe did not get into a fight with Comrie. Comrie and his agent opened their yappers and basically said Comrie wanted out of Edmonton. Comrie is the one who fought with the GM. Lowe on numerous occasions said Comrie was a good kid and wanted to sign him. Why is Lowe the devil here and Comrie the angel?
You're kidding right? Nearly everyone takes Lowe's side in this discussion, and what's Lowe gonna say?? "I hate him, I want him out of here"???? Of course not. Mike Comrie could be the person he hates most on this earth and Lowe would say (as he should from a trade value POV) exactly what he said.

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02-10-2004, 06:17 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Why do you feel the need to use the statement Kevin Lowe is lazy? If you are saying that I said that, please point it out, because I am pretty sure I didn't.

But you are obviously a K-Lo supporter. Great, things are rosy. The future is bright. The Goodfellas will rule forever.
Goodfellas? Who are you kidding? You sound stupid. Anyways, you KNOW that Lowe has done a bad job, so as asked before, please enlighten us what could have been done? We have needs -yes. But what are you going to give up to fill those needs???? Are you going to give up more of the future? No? Well, are you going to get less then top value for Brewer or Smyth? Or are you going to trade our captain? Or are you going to trade our two only consistent forwards (Dvorak or York).

You don't buy that the Oilers are building for post CBA????? Just because he let a third line checker get away for 3X what he's worth, that hurts our future? Give me a break. Lowe has said that it isn't JUST building for post CBA - that is the MOST IMPORTANT THING. BUT the playoffs are priority number two. Actually keeping the Oilers afloat financialy is priority #1, so bump those other two down one. Marchant was in the middle of a career year, and helped us to the playoffs and more money, so I think that letting him leave by way of UFA is fine.

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02-10-2004, 06:27 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by thome_26
Goodfellas? Who are you kidding? You sound stupid. Anyways, you KNOW that Lowe has done a bad job, so as asked before, please enlighten us what could have been done? We have needs -yes. But what are you going to give up to fill those needs???? Are you going to give up more of the future? No? Well, are you going to get less then top value for Brewer or Smyth? Or are you going to trade our captain? Or are you going to trade our two only consistent forwards (Dvorak or York).

You don't buy that the Oilers are building for post CBA????? Just because he let a third line checker get away for 3X what he's worth, that hurts our future? Give me a break. Lowe has said that it isn't JUST building for post CBA - that is the MOST IMPORTANT THING. BUT the playoffs are priority number two. Actually keeping the Oilers afloat financialy is priority #1, so bump those other two down one. Marchant was in the middle of a career year, and helped us to the playoffs and more money, so I think that letting him leave by way of UFA is fine.
Listen smart guy, if you want to see who sounds stupid go back and read all of your posts. You sound as though you are on the Oiler's payroll. Except for one thing, at least guys like Lowe and MacT will admit their deficiencies. It was a reference to another post that with Lowe, MacT, Huddy and Simpson it is like a group of Mafia running the show.

And listen oh great intelligent one, it wasn't 3X Marchant's salary that it would have cost, he could have qualified him at 10% over and then got something for him. But that would have taken some forethought.

But sorry, I forgot that talking to you was like talking to Kevin Lowe's right hand.

But hooray, hooray, everything is great in Oilerland, and the Oilers are great and Lowe is great and MacT is great and the PP is great and the PK is great.

I am glad that I will have years of this to look forward to.

My god where is Mirzal when you need him to bring Oiler fans back to earth.

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02-10-2004, 06:29 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
In my opinion, K-Lo has sat too long and let this season become a waste without enough effort into correcting the Oilers problems.
The Oilers problem is chemistry. Too many popular players have been traded over the last couple years and the on-ice chemistry is not there. Twice, Smyth's linemates have been shipped out (Weight-Geurin, AC-MC) and we all wonder why he is chumping. The Oilers dont have the money to buy talented players, so they have to develop a team. If the team keeps getting broken up, then nothing will develop.

Making more trades wont help because we cant afford anyone who will make an impact.

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02-10-2004, 06:29 PM
  #65
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Two years ago Lowe sat on his hands and watched this team go through a horrible slump and nothing was done to improve the team.. Eventually the Oil missed the playoffs.

This year, it seems has learned from that season. He saw that Comrie wasn't going to be back and when no impact players were being offered in return he signed Adam Oates(hasn't worked so far obviously). The Oilers were losing defencemen to injury and he signed Igor Ulanov. So he has made *some* strides this season from two years ago where he basically did nothing.

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02-10-2004, 06:31 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Why do you feel the need to use the statement Kevin Lowe is lazy? If you are saying that I said that, please point it out, because I am pretty sure I didn't.

But you are obviously a K-Lo supporter. Great, things are rosy. The future is bright. The Goodfellas will rule forever.
No I am looking for you to offer something tangible that he could have done or could be done. All you offer is negativity with nothing to back it up and excuses for why other teams haven't made a trade.

See my long post on trades for something tangible, what you offer is negativity with no reason.

I think there may be some trades out there but not as many as you seem to think there is.

Offer something besides negativity.

I know you think Lowe should do something. What? I have asked that question of you three times with no answer.


Last edited by hockeyaddict101: 02-10-2004 at 06:35 PM.
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02-10-2004, 06:37 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMenace
Two years ago Lowe sat on his hands and watched this team go through a horrible slump and nothing was done to improve the team.. Eventually the Oil missed the playoffs.

This year, it seems has learned from that season. He saw that Comrie wasn't going to be back and when no impact players were being offered in return he signed Adam Oates(hasn't worked so far obviously). The Oilers were losing defencemen to injury and he signed Igor Ulanov. So he has made *some* strides this season from two years ago where he basically did nothing.
So he signed an all-star center when we were hurting at center and signed a sturdy d-man when we were having trouble in our own end. It sounds like he has attempted to right the team. Thats a good way of looking at it.

Hindsight is 20-20 and things didnt work out as planned, but to sit and say "Kevin, do something" sounds pretty irrational. Might as well say "Kevin, go back in time and make the right trade this time". Its so easy to complain for some people.

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02-10-2004, 06:37 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
No I am looking for you to offer something tangible that he could have done or could be done. All you offer is negativity with nothing to back it up and excuses for why other teams haven't made a trade.

See my long post on trades for something tangible, what you offer is negativity with no reason.

I think there may be some trades out there but not as many as you seem to think there is.

Offer something besides negativity.

Its funny how you insult everyone else but offer nothing as an alternative. So I get it you are not a Lowe supporter, so what would you do?

I know you think Lowe should do something. What? I have asked that question of you three times with no answer.

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02-10-2004, 06:44 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Listen smart guy, if you want to see who sounds stupid go back and read all of your posts. You sound as though you are on the Oiler's payroll. Except for one thing, at least guys like Lowe and MacT will admit their deficiencies.
You think I don't admit their deficiencies????? I am well aware how bad they have been and what is wrong with them (goaltending, special teams, team defense, not giving up goals in the first/last minute of a period, and beating the teams they need to beat). The only thing I was on you for was all your talk that Lowe hasn't tried anything.

Quote:
It was a reference to another post that with Lowe, MacT, Huddy and Simpson it is like a group of Mafia running the show..
Obviously that's what you're takling about. But saying that the Oilers organization is like the goodfellas because they have guys who were in the organization before (and have good credentials) is laughable. I am one who would like to see the Oilers go out of organization for a coach - but goodfellas - C'mon, don't insult Joe Pesci like that!

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And listen oh great intelligent one
Finaly the respect I deserve

Quote:
it wasn't 3X Marchant's salary that it would have cost, he could have qualified him at 10% over and then got something for him. But that would have taken some forethought.
Do you even remember the situation???? When it came time to resign Marchant he was looking at having to give up 2 million/year. Now sure, that seems like a good deal after watching him last year. But that isn't when the talks were. They were after Marchant took a complete step backwards and was one of the most disapointing players on the Oilers team and one of the MAIN reasons they missed the playoffs. Does it seem smart to give a third line checker coming off a bad year a couple million/year? No, no it isn't.

Quote:
But sorry, I forgot that talking to you was like talking to Kevin Lowe's right hand.

But hooray, hooray, everything is great in Oilerland, and the Oilers are great and Lowe is great and MacT is great and the PP is great and the PK is great.
You're sure good at putting words in my mouth - I never have, or will imply the Oilers special teams are at any way acceptable, much less good. And while everything isn't fine in Oilerland - it isn't time to start giving up a guy like Ryan Smyth or some of our bright young kids for the sake of change. When a person trades they should trade for purpose.

Quote:
I am glad that I will have years of this to look forward to.

My god where is Mirzal when you need him to bring Oiler fans back to earth
You don't have to come on these boards if you don't like the fans being supportive and not getting caught up in the pessimistic furore that so many have.

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02-10-2004, 06:44 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
Goodfellas? Who are you kidding? You sound stupid. Anyways, you KNOW that Lowe has done a bad job, so as asked before, please enlighten us what could have been done? We have needs -yes. But what are you going to give up to fill those needs???? Are you going to give up more of the future? No? Well, are you going to get less then top value for Brewer or Smyth? Or are you going to trade our captain? Or are you going to trade our two only consistent forwards (Dvorak or York).

You don't buy that the Oilers are building for post CBA????? Just because he let a third line checker get away for 3X what he's worth, that hurts our future? Give me a break. Lowe has said that it isn't JUST building for post CBA - that is the MOST IMPORTANT THING. BUT the playoffs are priority number two. Actually keeping the Oilers afloat financialy is priority #1, so bump those other two down one. Marchant was in the middle of a career year, and helped us to the playoffs and more money, so I think that letting him leave by way of UFA is fine.
Lowe did not " let a third line player get away for 3X what he's worth". He let him get away for a few hundred grand. Thats not managing assets wisely.

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02-10-2004, 06:45 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
The Oiler's excuse has to be....oh, I guess they don't have one.
So the Oilers have no excuse but the other teams do. Give me a break. Reasoner and York are currently out with injuries. They've had trouble keeping their defense healthy. Other teams are givent he excuse of injury but when someone mentions injuries with Edmonton, people say injuries are no excuse. I know the team isn't using it as an excuse. If you can give excuses to other teams, The Oilers should be given the same.

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02-10-2004, 06:46 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanashell11
Lowe did not " let a third line player get away for 3X what he's worth". He let him get away for a few hundred grand. Thats not managing assets wisely.
What are you smoking? he's making just under three million. He's an above average third line checker - THAT IS ALL. And if you are talking about the situation for the contract that he gave him before last season, then read my post above. What Lowe did made sense. If Marty Reasoner isn't hurt and if Mike Comrie doesn't hold out people don't even bring up Marchants name.

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02-10-2004, 06:53 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
What are you smoking? he's making just under three million. He's an above average third line checker - THAT IS ALL. And if you are talking about the situation for the contract that he gave him before last season, then read my post above. What Lowe did made sense. If Marty Reasoner isn't hurt and if Mike Comrie doesn't hold out people don't even bring up Marchants name.
To add to that, Marchant only had 60 points because of injuries to York and Comrie and Smyth. If Comrie doesn't get injured, Marchant wouldn't get 1st line minutes and PP time. Then we wouldn't be talking about Marchant.

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02-10-2004, 07:09 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Lowe did not get into a fight with Comrie. Comrie and his agent opened their yappers and basically said Comrie wanted out of Edmonton. Comrie is the one who fought with the GM. Lowe on numerous occasions said Comrie was a good kid and wanted to sign him. Why is Lowe the devil here and Comrie the angel?
Both are devils.

For my money, Lowe's biggest weakness is that he doesn't have any sense of timing. To my knowledge, he has yet to make a trade this year to shake the team up. Yes, he acquired Adam Oates and Igor Ulanov, but I would have liked to see Lowe shake up the makeup of the team, not simply add to it.

He didn't. The team kept getting worse and worse, until now they are in 12th and staring a long way up to the playoffs.

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02-10-2004, 07:14 PM
  #75
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Goodfellas, eh?

I call them WAC's, as in Won A Cup.

That's how Lowe get his job, it's why MacT is here and it's why Huddy and Simpson we're hired.

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