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Renney: Make or break series?

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Old
04-24-2008, 12:03 PM
  #26
BigE
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Personally I don't think this is a must win or get fired series, in fact i think its 100% that he returns next year.

But as far as the difficulty level of the opponent, his progression as a coach and the team that he has this season, it could very well be a make or break series as far as how he is perceived as a coach.

If the Rangers can get through Pittsburgh and make it to the conference finals there will be much said about the coaching job Renney did, you can believe that. If he doesn't, a lot of the usual complaints about him will surely arise.

The Rangers are going to walk a tightrope in the series, balancing the defensive system while generating enough offensively to maintain the possession game.

This is his third trip to the playoffs and hes been building each year... will he go the way of a Lindy Ruff so to say? Or will he elevate himself to the next level with his team?

It will be interesting to see what happens.
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I'm not suggesting it would be Renney's "fault". Thats not what im saying here.

I'm saying personally for him, is this a crucial series in his career?

I think its huge for him.

He always preaches about the maturation of the young players... well it goes the same for coaches too. They have to reach that next level and theres no better chance for him than right now, because its going to take a great job from him to get it done.
I think you're reaching here.

The maturation process for coaches cannot be measured the same way that you evaluate players. From one year to the next, they're always working with different components.

I look at things like how he uses the last change, his lineup juggling, mid and late game adjustments according to the situation, and the way in which he sends messages to his team (through statement decisions or through the use of the media). Look at the progression he's made from taking over a few years ago, to now. The guy couldn't match a line to save his life, refused to make players accountable for their actions, and generally just survived on his people skills.

We always knew he was a tactician but never really saw it. Now, he's using his people skills to motivate these guys to stick to a system and he's reinforcing that motivation with excellent decisions from behind the bench.

Furthermore, you can't say enough about the way he's brought in so many young faces into the dressing room and integrated them into the team culture. For a team with so many personalities, he's used what was given to him to make them a cohesive unit.

Four years ago we were talking about the type of coach we'd want to steer this ship with all of the young talent we had. Fortunately for us he was under our very nose the entire time.

How many other coaches out there could have motivated guys like Jagr and Avery to fall in line. Previous to this, both guys were seen as locker room cancers and perhaps rightly so - they sure haven't been this year. I'm not sure Renney is to blame for Jagr's production struggles this season, but when the big man has produced it's because Renney has done his job to help put him in the right situation to be that big guy.

Certain coaches and situations might warrant a "win or die" attitude, but this certainly isn't one of them.

No, the outcome of this series is going to mean very little for Renney - except for, perhaps, a collossal meltdown in which the Rangers are beaten 8-2 every game and go out 4 straight.

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04-24-2008, 12:47 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by BigE View Post
I think you're reaching here.

The maturation process for coaches cannot be measured the same way that you evaluate players. From one year to the next, they're always working with different components.

I look at things like how he uses the last change, his lineup juggling, mid and late game adjustments according to the situation, and the way in which he sends messages to his team (through statement decisions or through the use of the media). Look at the progression he's made from taking over a few years ago, to now. The guy couldn't match a line to save his life, refused to make players accountable for their actions, and generally just survived on his people skills.

We always knew he was a tactician but never really saw it. Now, he's using his people skills to motivate these guys to stick to a system and he's reinforcing that motivation with excellent decisions from behind the bench.

Furthermore, you can't say enough about the way he's brought in so many young faces into the dressing room and integrated them into the team culture. For a team with so many personalities, he's used what was given to him to make them a cohesive unit.

Four years ago we were talking about the type of coach we'd want to steer this ship with all of the young talent we had. Fortunately for us he was under our very nose the entire time.

How many other coaches out there could have motivated guys like Jagr and Avery to fall in line. Previous to this, both guys were seen as locker room cancers and perhaps rightly so - they sure haven't been this year. I'm not sure Renney is to blame for Jagr's production struggles this season, but when the big man has produced it's because Renney has done his job to help put him in the right situation to be that big guy.

Certain coaches and situations might warrant a "win or die" attitude, but this certainly isn't one of them.

No, the outcome of this series is going to mean very little for Renney - except for, perhaps, a collossal meltdown in which the Rangers are beaten 8-2 every game and go out 4 straight.
Well said, and it may be a reach... but i think in the great scheme of things, the big picture - this is a big series for Renney and more importantly a big playoffs.

There will most certainly come a time when the team needs an extra kick in the ass and i haven't seen that ability in Renney thus far.

You've stated in your posts that hes made many adjustments in his time here and i'll agree hes become a better coach with the experience hes had each year. But im looking for that extra motivation factor, whether we see it on the bench or not. I know its difficult to really analyze a coach because his actions are not front and center and criticized as easily as a players actions on the ice - but you can get a general feel for the most part, if for instance theres a big moment in this series or in between periods and some of players comments hinge on words Renney passed along to them.

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04-24-2008, 03:43 PM
  #28
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Since he has been our coach he has had seasons that have gotten a little better each year. Lets recap:

1st season picked around dead last in the league, 1st place most of the season, major meltdown at the end, back into sixth, swept by the Devils.

The positives-We actually made the playoffs.

2nd season we look dead in February, go on a tear, finish a strong sixth, sweep the Thrash, play a strong series against a team that was supposed to stomp all over us.

The positives- Made round two. The Sabres were not that bad. I feel we were better then given credit for.

This season we finished in 5th. Again a little better. Beat the Devils in 5. Obviously taking that step to round 3 will be huge, however if it does not happen I still see no reason for him to go. I think it WILL happen next year based on the projected maturation of our rookies. Of course it might not...

So he has taken us in the right direction each year. I for one have never been a fire Renney guy.

No matter what he stays. If we win...why am I still typing? If we win this series it will be because we truly deserve to. If Trotz is still in Nashville who are shown the door in the 1st round every year (not that I think he is a bad coach, do think he could use a change of scenery though..) then Renney stays in NYC.

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04-28-2008, 02:59 PM
  #29
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Here we are, Game 3, down 2-0 coming home.

This is exactly why I started this thread. Not because Renney will be fired if the Rangers lose, but because everyone will question the decisions he makes in how this team reacts the Penguins.

I said it in all of my previews, the Rangers will be walking the tightrope of offense and defense, and though it has been 2 close games, some could argue with better coaching it could be 2-0 in the Rangers favor.

But its not, and Renney now has to make adjustments. If the Rangers want to even this series they'll need to make adjustments in both zones and on the Power Play.

Will Renney do it? Will the players follow suit?

Even if they do tie it up, he'll have to get this team to an even higher level than last year to win the series.

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04-28-2008, 03:08 PM
  #30
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I don't think the first two games can be blamed entirely on Renney. Should he have called a T/O after they netted those two goals back to back in game 1? Probably, but other than that I think he's done well.

I would have liked to see him show some more fire to get the team fired up for game two. It seemed like he went into the locker room and said "Don't blow another lead" and they sat back in their own end the whole game instead of taking it to them.

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04-28-2008, 03:38 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't think the first two games can be blamed entirely on Renney. Should he have called a T/O after they netted those two goals back to back in game 1? Probably, but other than that I think he's done well.

I would have liked to see him show some more fire to get the team fired up for game two. It seemed like he went into the locker room and said "Don't blow another lead" and they sat back in their own end the whole game instead of taking it to them.

And that is the exact trait he lacks. For a lineup like this, sometimes they need a real kick in ass like going into the third period yesterday down 1-0 and absolutely no offense to that point and a powerplay that desperately needed a jolt.

If he doesnt learn that quickly or decide to change it up and turn it on instead of smirking on the bench everytime something doesn't go their way, he doesnt deserve a finals visit IMO.

Of course you can't blame it on him entirely, but this team is frustrated and complaining about Crosby and officiating. Just liek the Devils did, and the Rangers took the high road. Yeah its easy to take the high road when you are winning but you know what? A good coach knows how to motivate his players when this **** happens.

I expect more and if the Rangers lose this series some of the blame will go Renneys way you can count on that.

He and the team have an opportunity to tie up a series against a young team at home, let's see what happens.

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04-28-2008, 03:40 PM
  #32
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i think renney is a good coach.. however his loyalty to certain players is why we're in the position we're in now... not one of you can convince me that pitt is the better team.. shame on us...if renney had the personality of a coach like....bobby cox or bill parcells...
the cup would be ours !

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04-28-2008, 03:44 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeSS View Post
i think renney is a good coach.. however his loyalty to certain players is why we're in the position we're in now... not one of you can convince me that pitt is the better team.. shame on us...if renney had the personality of a coach like....bobby cox or bill parcells...
the cup would be ours !
1) The position we're in now? What would that be, 1 of 8 teams still playing?

2) You don't think Bobby Cox and Bill Parcells had their favorites?

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04-28-2008, 03:47 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by blazeSS View Post
i think renney is a good coach.. however his loyalty to certain players is why we're in the position we're in now... not one of you can convince me that pitt is the better team.. shame on us...if renney had the personality of a coach like....bobby cox or bill parcells...
the cup would be ours !
Always the stock answer in this town when a NY team is losing.

If a coach is too quiet, he's not mean enough. If he's too loud, he alienates his team.

Then of course everyone forgets that most of the coaches that have been winning the Cup have been pretty subdued guys, like the last 3 Cup winning coaches.

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04-28-2008, 03:56 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
1) The position we're in now? What would that be, 1 of 8 teams still playing?

2) You don't think Bobby Cox and Bill Parcells had their favorites?

LOL. I love SingnBluesOnBroadway's one/two line posts. It always leaves you thinking more!

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04-28-2008, 04:02 PM
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When a team has perhaps the best and 3rd or 4th best players in the game it is tough to beat them in the playoffs unless everyone else on the team stinks, which hardly applies in this instance.

If Renney can magically turn Sjostrom into Malkin we'll have a better chance.

My only gripe with Renney is that he took Hollweg out of the lineup after we won and for no apparent reason. Hopefully he is back in on Tuesday so at least we might see one effective check by the home club.

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04-28-2008, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Always the stock answer in this town when a NY team is losing.

If a coach is too quiet, he's not mean enough. If he's too loud, he alienates his team.

Then of course everyone forgets that most of the coaches that have been winning the Cup have been pretty subdued guys, like the last 3 Cup winning coaches.

i felt this all year about renney.. regardless of wins/losses

he is not greedy enough to be a cup winner.. seems to be too concerned of what people feel about him... his response to the "early whistle" ... he says it was the right call... imo it wasn't the right call.... imo renney shouldn't even commented on it at all esp. being that he didn't even mention that the ref was out of position

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04-28-2008, 04:31 PM
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When a team has perhaps the best and 3rd or 4th best players in the game it is tough to beat them in the playoffs unless everyone else on the team stinks, which hardly applies in this instance.

If Renney can magically turn Sjostrom into Malkin we'll have a better chance.

My only gripe with Renney is that he took Hollweg out of the lineup after we won and for no apparent reason. Hopefully he is back in on Tuesday so at least we might see one effective check by the home club.

if you are going to argue.. stick to the simple facts about what the arguement is....."we are the better team".. we beat them 5-3 in reg season.. we completely shut down malkin and crosby during some of these games... why would you say something ridiculous like changing sjostom into malkin ?

what you should be asking yourself about renney is what is shanny doin on the pp ?


Last edited by blazeSS: 04-29-2008 at 11:32 AM.
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04-28-2008, 04:39 PM
  #39
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I think to truly judge a coach, you have to be behind closed doors. and i know none of you are in on the "renney jagr talks" or "renny shannahan talks", there are things that no one but the team see's. if you think otherwise you are wrong. a coach not only is on the ice and the moves he makes, its the relationships he has with his team.

hey, thats just me. don't be so quick to judge the guy.

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04-28-2008, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by blazeSS View Post
i felt this all year about renney.. regardless of wins/losses

he is not greedy enough to be a cup winner.. seems to be too concerned of what people feel about him... his response to the "early whistle" ... he says it was the right call... imo it wasn't the right call.... imo renney shouldn't even commented on it at all esp. being that he didn't even mention that the ref was out of position

Renney's smart, no need to get in a twizzy about refs, his players need to focus on their jobs.

Bottom line is, good coaches/leaders don't have to resort to such tactics, especially this time of year.

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04-28-2008, 04:46 PM
  #41
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I think to truly judge a coach, you have to be behind closed doors. and i know none of you are in on the "renney jagr talks" or "renny shannahan talks", there are things that no one but the team see's. if you think otherwise you are wrong. a coach not only is on the ice and the moves he makes, its the relationships he has with his team.

hey, thats just me. don't be so quick to judge the guy.
i agree with what you say.. however the man has been here 3 years now.. one of the problems i see is that he does not instill a sense of urgency in his players.. esp guys like rozi, tyutin jagr etc.

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04-28-2008, 08:00 PM
  #42
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Not a big Renney or Sather fan. But I would much rather see Sather go than Renney. I just don't like the loyalty Renney has towards players and his lack of emotion.

When your power play stinks, it's coaching.

When your 2-or more goal leads aren't even safe in the third period, it's coaching

When your 4th line is getting key mins late in a game in which you trail, that's coaching

When you fail to adjust your lines when the ones you programmed in aren't working, that's coaching.

But I think back to 1998-2004 and I say thank god for Tom Renney.

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04-28-2008, 09:22 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by blazeSS View Post
if you are going to argue.. stick to the simpiest facts about what the arguement is....."we are the better team".. we beat them 5-3 in reg season.. we completely shut down malkin and crosby during some of these games... why would you say something ridiculous like changing sjostom into malkin ?

what you should be asking yourself about renney is what is shanny doin on the pp ?
You're criticizing my reasoning while saying that Renney isn't "greedy enough" to win the Cup, whatever that means. So how did you learn about this? Did the local palm reader tell you? Did you speak to his shrink?

If the Playoffs were determined based on regular season results we would not have to even bother playing the games. We could figure out the winners with a pad and pencil.

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04-28-2008, 09:53 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
When a team has perhaps the best and 3rd or 4th best players in the game it is tough to beat them in the playoffs unless everyone else on the team stinks, which hardly applies in this instance.

If Renney can magically turn Sjostrom into Malkin we'll have a better chance.

My only gripe with Renney is that he took Hollweg out of the lineup after we won and for no apparent reason. Hopefully he is back in on Tuesday so at least we might see one effective check by the home club.
Okay, maybe we could use Hollweg's energy. I saw two Rangers/Penguins games this year. I like Betts, I like Orr, I have reservations about Hollweg. I can't remark on how effective HBO was against the Penguins, so you might be right.
Since Sjostrom will never become Malkin, or even anyone worth counting on for anything, sit him. Sjostrom is all sizzle and no steak, all motion and no substance. I hate watching that guy.

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04-28-2008, 09:58 PM
  #45
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Renney has gotten a lot out of this team and has dealt with any and all adversity they've faced up until this point. The way the team came back after that week off following the 5 goal-lead-blown game against the Habs was all on Renney, and that's a mark of his work this season.

He stays regardless of the outcome of this series IMO, and rightfully so.

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04-28-2008, 10:56 PM
  #46
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Truth is, who else are yougoing to replace Renney?... Keenan? lol.. No. He's staying. Renney can lead us to a cup I believe. I feel just some guys need to be let go, ex. Shanahan. The 3-0 give up isnt his fault. It's the players falling asleep on plays.

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