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Jagr or Sakic

View Poll Results: Who do you consider the better player
Jagr 167 52.85%
Sakic 137 43.35%
You moron, this is dead even and a thread about this was already done 12 3.80%
Voters: 316. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-02-2008, 07:57 AM
  #76
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"Leadership" might be one of the most misunderstood attributes on this forum. Even the greatest leader can only do so much. Great leaders usually have great followers. It's not as though everyone outside of the leader is just an automaton waiting for the leader to push their "greatness" button. That sells well in Hollywood, but it's rarely the case in reality.

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05-02-2008, 08:14 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Courage View Post
"Leadership" might be one of the most misunderstood attributes on this forum. Even the greatest leader can only do so much. Great leaders usually have great followers. It's not as though everyone outside of the leader is just an automaton waiting for the leader to push their "greatness" button. That sells well in Hollywood, but it's rarely the case in reality.
Thank you, thank you very much. That is a rare voice of reason. Half of the time when I read "leadership" in this forum I have the picture of this inspiration guy ion my head pulling a more than ridicolous speech. I mean, would anyone ever fall for that? I know I wouldn't and neither would anyone with half a brain left. Leading is always leading by example, and if you only have one guy on your team doing that, you are in trouble. The rest is the coaches job. And if you have Jagr's points, how can you doubt that he was leading by example? On the other hand, put a guy like Sakic on a really weak team that has no shots at anything and I wonder how much of his leadership is still there. Even Yzerman was considered bad and was on the verge of being traded. Then, a good team is assembled in Detroit and the rest is history.

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Old
05-02-2008, 02:03 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Courage View Post
"Leadership" might be one of the most misunderstood attributes on this forum. Even the greatest leader can only do so much. Great leaders usually have great followers. It's not as though everyone outside of the leader is just an automaton waiting for the leader to push their "greatness" button. That sells well in Hollywood, but it's rarely the case in reality.
Well said.

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Old
05-02-2008, 03:07 PM
  #79
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Oh lord, Sakic is or has never been even remotely close to Jagr.

Jagr is one of the best players ever in this sport. Jagrīs dominance during his peak was absolutely sick.


Sakic is not a Titan.

Jagr, Forsberg, Lindros, Fedorov... those are players who absolutely tore their opposition apart during their peaks. They are titans.


Sakic is a gnome.... a garden gnome.

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Old
05-02-2008, 03:13 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by bilros View Post
Oh lord, Sakic is or has never been even remotely close to Jagr.

Jagr is one of the best players ever in this sport. Jagrīs dominance during his peak was absolutely sick.


Sakic is not a Titan.

Jagr, Forsberg, Lindros, Fedorov... those are players who absolutely tore their opposition apart during their peaks. They are titans.


Sakic is a gnome.... a garden gnome.
The funniest thing about your post, other than it's blatant ignorance, is that if you repeated it in a conversation with any of the players you listed above (especially Peter), they'd all laugh in your face and tell you to go watch another sport.

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Old
05-02-2008, 03:33 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by JSF1921 View Post
The funniest thing about your post, other than it's blatant ignorance, is that if you repeated it in a conversation with any of the players you listed above (especially Peter), they'd all laugh in your face and tell you to go watch another sport.
The funniest thing is the fact Sakic kills Forsberg, Lindros and Fedorov.

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Old
05-02-2008, 03:52 PM
  #82
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I'd take Sakic every day of the week and twice on days ending in "y".

Leadership, brings it every day, and one the most clutch players of all-time.

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Old
05-03-2008, 04:11 AM
  #83
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Only if you are stupid enough to claim that Smolinski and Ovechkin are even roughly equal players otherwise.

If I have an empty team roster and one free choice to be made: Elite center > elite winger.
Sakic was never able to carry a bad team anywhere though. He was a good scorer, but Sakic lacked that ability to take over games and dominate them. Jagr carried lots of crappy Pens teams to the playoffs year after year. You can say defence, you can say leadership, you can say whatever you want really, but when it comes down to it, Jagr was a step above elite. Sakic was a great player, but he was not the type of guy who could take a team on his back and carry them very far. That was the difference between Sakic and Jagr. The point total differences really do not do justice to the way Jagr dominated the nhl. There is a reason why Jagr won 5 scoring titles and Sakic won 0. The reason the numbers are close is because Sakic had the bennefit of a few seasons longer before the dead puck era and Sakic was able to amass a substantial advantage in points before Jagr was even drafted. In his career, Sakic only came close to a scoring title once, and the person who beat him was Jagr. I suppose the best way I can put this is look what Jagr is doing in the playoffs right now. He is simply playing at a level that nobody can match right now. Not even Crosby and Malkin can keep up with him right now, and it is a level that Sakic only reached once in his career, and that was the 96 playoffs. It isn't the 14 point sin 9 games that is impressive, it is the complete and utter domination of when Jagr is on the ice. Jagr just has that "it" that Sakic didn't have.


Last edited by Fish on The Sand: 05-03-2008 at 04:16 AM.
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Old
05-03-2008, 05:16 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Montral Shadow View Post
The funniest thing is the fact Sakic kills Forsberg, Lindros and Fedorov.


Yeah, okay

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05-03-2008, 08:15 AM
  #85
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Yeah, okay
Just his numbers are enough to prove that, and even there, it's not the only important thing.

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05-03-2008, 08:33 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilros View Post
Oh lord, Sakic is or has never been even remotely close to Jagr.

Jagr is one of the best players ever in this sport. Jagrīs dominance during his peak was absolutely sick.


Sakic is not a Titan.

Jagr, Forsberg, Lindros, Fedorov... those are players who absolutely tore their opposition apart during their peaks. They are titans.


Sakic is a gnome.... a garden gnome.
If you put anyone who is currently playing into the league when Jagr was in his peak they'd put up much better than Jagr. The game has changed so much since Jagr was in his peak

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05-03-2008, 08:35 AM
  #87
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Jagr.

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Old
05-03-2008, 08:54 AM
  #88
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Bad leader,not a team player,bla bla bla,give me Jagr

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Old
05-03-2008, 12:56 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Sakic was never able to carry a bad team anywhere though. He was a good scorer, but Sakic lacked that ability to take over games and dominate them. Jagr carried lots of crappy Pens teams to the playoffs year after year. You can say defence, you can say leadership, you can say whatever you want really, but when it comes down to it, Jagr was a step above elite. Sakic was a great player, but he was not the type of guy who could take a team on his back and carry them very far. That was the difference between Sakic and Jagr. The point total differences really do not do justice to the way Jagr dominated the nhl. There is a reason why Jagr won 5 scoring titles and Sakic won 0. The reason the numbers are close is because Sakic had the bennefit of a few seasons longer before the dead puck era and Sakic was able to amass a substantial advantage in points before Jagr was even drafted. In his career, Sakic only came close to a scoring title once, and the person who beat him was Jagr. I suppose the best way I can put this is look what Jagr is doing in the playoffs right now. He is simply playing at a level that nobody can match right now. Not even Crosby and Malkin can keep up with him right now, and it is a level that Sakic only reached once in his career, and that was the 96 playoffs. It isn't the 14 point sin 9 games that is impressive, it is the complete and utter domination of when Jagr is on the ice. Jagr just has that "it" that Sakic didn't have.
Sakic in his prime never was on a bad team so he never had the chance to carry a bad team on his back.

But I agree if given the chance he would've failed abysmally. A few 100 point seasons in the 80's era playing with Stastny and Goulet and everyone thinks he's some legend of hockey. But Joe Sakic has never stepped up when it mattered the most. Thats what Criminal Joe should be remembered for.

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05-03-2008, 12:59 PM
  #90
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sakic

why? playoffs. jagr is great in the PO's no doubt, but super joe is
a LEGEND. besides, jagr never led a team to a stanley cup IMO.
thats mario.

that said, my favorite 3 players of all time are:
-sakic
-forsberg
-jagr

so it was a tough choice lol

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05-03-2008, 01:05 PM
  #91
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Or maybe because playoffs could() be considered more important than regular season benchmarks
Bingo. I take Joe.

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05-03-2008, 01:08 PM
  #92
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Bingo. I take Joe.
People are talking like Jagr sucks in playoffs when Sakic is not much better than him in the post season.

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05-03-2008, 01:26 PM
  #93
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Jaromir Jagr. No doubt there. Of course, Joe Sakic is a very good player.

Jagr has won many rewards before. Couple of Stanley's too? I think so.

And, how old is he now? And he is leading the points in the playoffs!

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05-03-2008, 06:02 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
But Joe Sakic has never stepped up when it mattered the most.
Exactly. Scoring 18 goals(with 6 game winners) in a playoff run is a complete joke. Just like winning the Cup and Conn Smythe.

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Old
06-07-2008, 10:54 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
There's a lot more to hockey than offensive numbers and Art Ross trophy's.

...And the year was 2001. When he beat Jagr for the honor.
This poll was preposterous due to the amount of bias involved here.

Leadership is a nice quality to have, but it takes a TEAM to win a cup. Sakic had a loaded team every time he won, with multiple leaders.

Shanahan was a great leader but he's no Jagr, and you wouldnt choose him above Jagr, rightfully so.

Leadership is really just a biased fans way of trying to amp their preferred players potential or value. You can have all the leadership qualities you want but still not win games if you dont have the skill on the team, or the desire shared among 20 other guys.

The main point to Hockey is winning by outscoring your opponent. You want more points, more goals, you go with Jagr, quite easily here. Jagr leads in the best way, on the ice.

I'm tired of the argument about what a player has won or done in the playoffs, when this is a TEAM sport. Mario could be playing on Columbus and he'd never make the playoffs, yet he'd still be the one player everyone wants on their team, and the best player in the league.

Jaromir is and was a better and more talented player than Sakic. I love Joe but hey, face facts and look and what they've done and how they played.

You think Sakic could have done any better on those Pens teams of the latter 90's? F no.

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06-07-2008, 11:03 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by tomi2 View Post
Jagr is a top 15 player ever. Sakic is a borderline top 30.

Jagr without thinking twice. He was the best forward of his generation.
Sakic's still going strong at 39 and could finish his career with the second highest point totals in history if he keeps up a reasonable pace for the next 4 years or so, without the benefit of playing the bulk of his career in the 1980s.

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06-07-2008, 12:05 PM
  #97
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Jagr easily

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06-07-2008, 12:11 PM
  #98
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I say Sakic.

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06-07-2008, 12:24 PM
  #99
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If I was starting a franchise and I could choose either Sakic or Jagr to build it around I would choose Sakic. I don't think it is really close either. You can't argue that Jagr isn't one of the best players ever. However Sakic is somebody that everyone in the league respect and all the players on your bench respect. There are lots of people that respect Jagr's abilities but i don't know if anybody respects his character.

Besides, Jagr played in the east his whole career

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Old
06-07-2008, 12:30 PM
  #100
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Sakic

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