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TBAY drafts Steve Stamkos months before draft!!

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Old
04-29-2008, 10:57 AM
  #51
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...are people still seriously whining about stamkos?

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04-29-2008, 11:20 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
Way better than paying a washed up Blake almost as much...

And it looks to me that Feaster's essentially rebuilt his team in the last two years, making them into what looks to be a real future contender.
Yeah, I think so too...Lecavalier, St. Louis, Stamkos, Boyle...and AHLers...

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04-29-2008, 01:02 PM
  #53
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Now I know why Sotnos wants to pull her hair out all of the time.

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04-29-2008, 01:18 PM
  #54
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Oh give me a ****ing break. Thats easy for you to say while your team is gonna be getting Stamkos.

Try being the worst team in the league since mid-December then having the #1 pick stolen right out from under you by a blatantly tanking team. Would you get over it then?
OK ... I'll play devil's advocate.

-- Would you still be complaining if Tampa had tanked as you suggest and finished dead last, but someone like the Thrashers, Blues, or Islanders won the draft and moved up to 1st - or would you be complaining that that team also tanked?
-- Would you still be complaining that Tampa tanked if instead of dead last, they finished 4th to last but won the lottery and moved up to 1st?
-- Are you complaining about any other teams tanking to go for last, or is this a Tampa-only thing?

Tampa flat out wasn't a good team for much of the season - so unless you think they went into camp with the, "... and well tank and finish dead last and get Stamkos" attitude, you're way off base. They didn't have much support after the Big 4 on offense [though Ouellet was a surprise]; losing Boyle for 45 games didn't help, either - and having Denis unable to play like an NHL goalie contributed as well. If the team was really tanking, I don't know how you get that given that the team had major holes to begin with and had the, "ride the Big 4 and hope the rest of the team can hang on" plan in effect just like it had the prior 2 years.

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04-29-2008, 02:19 PM
  #55
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exactly. whoever else was 29th would have won it, tank or not.
Tampa wasn't 29th. By record they were 30th. Had they not tanked the final 24 games, the Kings would have rightly been 30th and gotten Stamkos.


Irish Blues, I'm complaining that Tampa tanked and it cost my team a franchise center. And its not like I'm making stuff up or talking crazy. Just look at the data:

Through Tampa's first 58 games, they had 56 points. So they were obvious not great, but just below .500 isn't the worst thing in the world.

Though their final 24 games, they got 15 points.

So now they've suddenly gone from a 79-point team to a 51-point team (over 82 games)? How does something like that suddenly happen? How does a team become 65% as good just like that?

I would love love love for someone to convince me that Tampa didn't tank. I had no problem with them before and don't really want to dislike them, but I don't really think what they did was ethical.

Doesn't it seem a bit too convenient for them that they miss the playoffs for the first time in 5 seasons and get the first pick? And only three seasons removed from winning the Cup? How do you go from Cup to worst team in the league in only 3 seasons unless you're really trying to?

And please don't tell me to get over it or that the Kings are going to be getting a good player either way. None of that changed the fact that Tampa tanked.

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Old
04-29-2008, 02:39 PM
  #56
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already seen this link several days ago

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04-29-2008, 02:43 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond Joe View Post
Yeah, I think so too...Lecavalier, St. Louis, Stamkos, Boyle...and AHLers...
Yup, Tampa will still suck next year, Stamkos or not. No defense to speak of and a GM that's too dumb to fix the problem.

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Old
04-29-2008, 02:51 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Canada2theCore View Post
Tampa wasn't 29th. By record they were 30th. Had they not tanked the final 24 games, the Kings would have rightly been 30th and gotten Stamkos.
Stop it, you're looking ridiculous. Rightly? So LA has a god-given right (curse) of getting the first overall pick? Are you serious?

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Originally Posted by Canada2theCore View Post
I would love love love for someone to convince me that Tampa didn't tank. I had no problem with them before and don't really want to dislike them, but I don't really think what they did was ethical.

Doesn't it seem a bit too convenient for them that they miss the playoffs for the first time in 5 seasons and get the first pick? And only three seasons removed from winning the Cup? How do you go from Cup to worst team in the league in only 3 seasons unless you're really trying to?
The "tanking" argument is just the last resort of the bitter. Look at Tampa's team and you'll see why they finished last. It's pretty obvious actually.

And in the new NHL you really can't see how a team can go from Cup winner to dead last in 3 seasons?

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04-29-2008, 02:54 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Canada2theCore View Post
The Lightnings tanking was so bad, even the Penguins were impressed.

They shouldn't be rewarded for it and they certainly shouldn't be flaunting it like this.

They're shameless.
Bitter Kings fan?

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Old
04-29-2008, 03:06 PM
  #60
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I think that's gonna be what I call him when he hits the NHL..Plus 13. He can outscore Crosby and Ovechkin, but I'll call him Plus 13.

Maybe even write it like, +13.
I don't think that's the issue. Who honestly projects plus/minus? lol

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Originally Posted by Canada2theCore View Post
Oh give me a ****ing break. Thats easy for you to say while your team is gonna be getting Stamkos.

Try being the worst team in the league since mid-December then having the #1 pick stolen right out from under you by a blatantly tanking team. Would you get over it then?
It's actually easier to make an argument that LA intentionally tanked last season too. The Kings, by far, had the absolute worst roster on paper and it obviously translated to their on-ice performance. What kind of organization goes into a professional competitve sport with a roster that bad, not expecting to get the first overall pick?

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04-29-2008, 03:22 PM
  #61
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...are people still seriously whining about stamkos?
They aren't people. They are babies.

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04-29-2008, 03:34 PM
  #62
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Stop it, you're looking ridiculous. Rightly? So LA has a god-given right (curse) of getting the first overall pick? Are you serious?
I didn't say it was their fate or anything like that. Just that they were the legitimately worst team.

Quote:
The "tanking" argument is just the last resort of the bitter. Look at Tampa's team and you'll see why they finished last. It's pretty obvious actually.
Excellent. Just ignore all the statistically data I posted. Lets just look at rosters and make subjective claims.

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Originally Posted by dubey View Post
It's actually easier to make an argument that LA intentionally tanked last season too. The Kings, by far, had the absolute worst roster on paper and it obviously translated to their on-ice performance.
Well what was Dean Lombardi supposed to do? Steal players from other teams?

But anyway, you just proved my point. You said yourself the Kings were the worst team this season. Thanks for agreeing.

Quote:
What kind of organization goes into a professional competitve sport with a roster that bad, not expecting to get the first overall pick?
I don't think Deano spent as much as he did on free agents in an effort to tank. Who knew Nagy would go for 26 points after 4 consecutive seasons of 52-57? Calder had one of the worst seasons of his career. Handzus and Visnovsky too. Do you think Dean Lombardi planned that?


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Old
04-29-2008, 03:35 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Canada2theCore View Post
Tampa wasn't 29th. By record they were 30th. Had they not tanked the final 24 games, the Kings would have rightly been 30th and gotten Stamkos.
Them's the breaks. It may have sucked for us Kings fans, but you think it was any easier for Tampa fans to see their team play like crap? At least the Kings showed improvement more so in the end of the season.

Quote:
Irish Blues, I'm complaining that Tampa tanked and it cost my team a franchise center. And its not like I'm making stuff up or talking crazy. Just look at the data:

Through Tampa's first 58 games, they had 56 points. So they were obvious not great, but just below .500 isn't the worst thing in the world.

Though their final 24 games, they got 15 points.

So now they've suddenly gone from a 79-point team to a 51-point team (over 82 games)? How does something like that suddenly happen? How does a team become 65% as good just like that?
Hmm... losing a player like Brad Richards might hurt a little, just maybe. If Rob Blake wasn't so selfish, the Kings would have had to call up a rookie to replace him after the trade deadline, and the rookie would have made mistakes leading to the Kings losing more. Even if the player hasn't had the greatest year, having to replace him with a rookie has an impact on the team. The Lightning lost serious depth when they traded away Richards.

It didn't get any easier with Lecavalier getting injured in the middle of the second to last game of the season.

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I would love love love for someone to convince me that Tampa didn't tank. I had no problem with them before and don't really want to dislike them, but I don't really think what they did was ethical.
When a team isn't making the playoffs, it's in their best interest to be sellers. Grow up.

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Doesn't it seem a bit too convenient for them that they miss the playoffs for the first time in 5 seasons and get the first pick? And only three seasons removed from winning the Cup? How do you go from Cup to worst team in the league in only 3 seasons unless you're really trying to?
As bitter as I am that they get the first overall pick so soon after winning the cup, the fact is that the team has not been managed well post-cap era. They won the cup before the lockout; since then, they lost Khabibulin who played lights out, and they thought they could be a competitive team with three forwards taking up nearly half the cap space.

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And please don't tell me to get over it or that the Kings are going to be getting a good player either way. None of that changed the fact that Tampa tanked.
Well, you should get over it, and this is coming from another Kings fan. I still like the Kings future more than the Lightning, especially since the Lightning will have three great forwards and questionable defense again. They've upgraded in goaltending, but the Kings will get a good player with the 2nd overall, and they'll have great depth for a long time. No need to be a child about it, though, and that's how you're acting.

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Old
04-29-2008, 03:35 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by I Stalk Russians View Post
...are people still seriously whining about stamkos?
god what a diver...the league favours him...the refs favour him...hes gotta stop whining...

....


early maybe?

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Old
04-29-2008, 03:38 PM
  #65
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god what a diver...the league favours him...the refs favour him...hes gotta stop whining...

....


early maybe?


I can see it now...

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Old
04-29-2008, 03:41 PM
  #66
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I didn't say it was their fate or anything like that. Just that they were the legitimately worst team.

Excellent. Just ignore all the statistically data I posted. Lets just look at rosters and make subjective claims.

Well what was Dean Lombardi supposed to do? Steal players from other teams?

Also, I don't think Deano spent as much as he did on free agents in an effort to tank.
Pretty sure everyone saw those moves as entirely linear, non of them were anything close to a player who would make an impact. How do you go into a season with Jason LaBarbara as your starting goalie? Was the second round draft pick for Bryzgalov too high?

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04-29-2008, 03:49 PM
  #67
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KingsPawn, I see what you're saying, but you really think losing Richards 51 points and -25 took away 35% of the Lightnings quality?

Quote:
How do you go into a season with Jason LaBarbara as your starting goalie? Was the second round draft pick for Bryzgalov too high?
Labarbera was actually one of the bright spots this season. Please know what you're talking about.

And I guess since no one else went for it, a 2nd was too high for Bryz.

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04-29-2008, 03:53 PM
  #68
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KingsPawn, I see what you're saying, but you really think losing Richards 51 points and -25 took away 35% of the Lightnings quality?
and Prospal who had 29 goals and 57 points before he left for Philly. This also hurt Vinny and Marty

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04-29-2008, 03:58 PM
  #69
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and Prospal who had 29 goals and 57 points before he left for Philly. This also hurt Vinny and Marty
Holy ****! A legitimate informed response. Thank you!

I was not aware of that. I suppose losing your 3rd and 4th highest scorers could be a problem.

Still a bitter pill to swallow, though.

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04-29-2008, 05:10 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by SENSfreak_03 View Post
god what a diver...the league favours him...the refs favour him...hes gotta stop whining...
....

early maybe?
i'm sure it's coming, but yeah, you might want to wait 'til his first NHL game.

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Them's the breaks. It may have sucked for us Kings fans, but you think it was any easier for Tampa fans to see their team play like crap?
that's the absolute truth. it sucked & was embarrassing, plain and simple. disagree with all your statements saying that tampa has a bad future ahead of them, but that's not really worth getting into.

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I was not aware of that. I suppose losing your 3rd and 4th highest scorers could be a problem.
how about boyle missing most of the season & a very young D having to cover his minutes? how about the external drama with ownership that dragged on all season? how about richards not playing up to his potential, or vinny playing with a hurt wrist for months? there are a lot of legitimate reasons they got worse as the season went along, a lot more than "omg they tanked".

being 30th doesn't guarantee squat in the lottery anyway, and you don't have to go back further than last year to know that.

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Old
04-29-2008, 05:48 PM
  #71
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that's the absolute truth. it sucked & was embarrassing, plain and simple. disagree with all your statements saying that tampa has a bad future ahead of them, but that's not really worth getting into.
I'm certainly open to discussion. I guess "bad future" might be a bit unfair, but there's no doubt their defense is very suspect and their prospect pool is very thin. I was hoping the Kings could pull Ranger out of your hands before he became a big name, but oh well

Either way, it was very frustrating as a Kings fan to watch Tampa pass, after watching the Kings struggle all season long, but I can only imagine the pain of watching them plummet.

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04-29-2008, 06:58 PM
  #72
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how about boyle missing most of the season & a very young D having to cover his minutes? how about the external drama with ownership that dragged on all season? how about richards not playing up to his potential, or vinny playing with a hurt wrist for months? there are a lot of legitimate reasons they got worse as the season went along, a lot more than "omg they tanked".
But those reasons were prevalent during the first 58 games as well as the last 24. I was looking for reasons why they suddenly became 65% as good in the final 24 games.

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04-29-2008, 06:59 PM
  #73
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Oy

Stamkos is a gooder, but you'd think the Bolts would have learned from the "Michael Jordan" thing with Vinnie L. That chart showing he was WAY better than anyone else in his last season of junior puts more pressure than any rook needs on himself.

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04-29-2008, 11:23 PM
  #74
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Tanking makes very little sense for anyone.

First, if you're a player, that hot prospect you are supposedly "tanking" for might end up taking your job. (by the way, tell any pro face to face that you think he is tanking. Then duck).

There is a lottery. Tanking for Stamkos, and then still getting 2nd overall pick due to the lottery would be doubly stupid.

Tanking depends on other teams' results- which you can't control. Did Tampa somehow arrange for LA to beat San Jose in the last game and thereby pass them in the standings?

Finally why would any team who was still in playoff contention suddenly decide that getting a better shot (and a better shot is all that it is) at the #1 pick is better than making the playoffs. What will that new player bring? A chance at the playoffs next season? And try selling THIS to the players- "Hey guys, I know we're only 4 points out of the playoffs with 35 games left to go but please stop trying hard because there's this junior player who's really good and we wish he'd join our team".
Yup, that'll win over a dressing room.

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04-30-2008, 12:21 AM
  #75
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And try selling THIS to the players- "Hey guys, I know we're only 4 points out of the playoffs with 35 games left to go but please stop trying hard because there's this junior player who's really good and we wish he'd join our team".
Yup, that'll win over a dressing room.
I think this is the biggest reason why tanking doesn't take place. Why would NHL players ever agree to it? They wouldn't.

If by "tanking" he means trading Brad Richards, then fine. But that's clearly not what it was.

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