Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Ottawa does this when Markov starts scoring 100 points per season.
(never)
I know...
The day Brodeur starts scoring 13 points per year we might trade New Jersey Tom Kostopoulos. ( I hope you didn't know you were compairing a center and a defenseman).
Besides that, I'm surprised no one in Ottawa can understand that without Markov and possibly Streit, the power play next would be such a threat and that's why it wouldn't be a great trade.
The day Brodeur starts scoring 13 points per year we might trade New Jersey Tom Kostopoulos. ( I hope you didn't know you were compairing a center and a defenseman).
Besides that, I'm surprised no one in Ottawa can understand that without Markov and possibly Streit, the power play next would be such a threat and that's why it wouldn't be a great trade.
When most people look at these trades, they first look at actual return value, then worry about how players fit into a team. For example, if Montreal were to get Crosby, for say, Steve Begin, no one in Montreal would be whining about losing a guy who takes bad penalties and is a 4th line plugger. They'd be happy with the return and live with the consequences, yeah?
Well, moving one of the league's best point producers for an excellent dman just doesn't make sense in Ottawa.
Ottawa got a lot worse when Joe Corvo left. The reason for this is they lacked a true puck-moving defence since Redden is terrible now. Trying to say Ottawa loses this deal and wouldn't do it is absolutely hilarious, a guy like Vermette can easily get 60-70 points playing on a top line with Alfie and Heatley and add in a top 10 D in the league who can chip in 55-60 points and significantly help their PP and Ottawa greatly improves their team.
From Montreal's point of view it doesn't make sense, it would bump Plekanec or Koivu to the 3rd line and they'd be without their #1 d.
Trying to say that Montreal doesnt win this deal is hilarious. Spezza is a franchise centerman, Markov just realised his number one d man potential. And at that he is in the lower tier in the league a big hell no from a sens fan over here.
Spezza is 30 points or so better than Plekanec. Getting him would basically just be that 30 point upgrade, and not really mean anything else to the Habs. You'd take it before you took a kick in the head, for sure. But you wouldn't give up your #1 defenseman to make that upgrade. I find it bizarre that so many Sens fans in this thread can't seem to see that. The Habs wouldn't trade Markov for Spezza. It wouldn't even be conceivable.
Thats bad asset management thats why. When you can upgrade your teams overall value that significantly you take it and figure it out from there. That isnt a hard concept to figure out.
If Ottawa was in a situation when it had the three right wingers havlat hossa and alfredsson and someone offered them a large upgrade over Bonk (who at the time was scoring 60 + points) and was the first line centerman for another very good right winger who blows him out in trade value I still make the trade. More assets = better chance of winning in the end.
Well then you lose Koivu's 70 points. Either way, you lose something that we don't need to lose. In addition to our #1 defenseman.
You're sure? McDonagh or Fischer? Replace Markov? In 1-2 years? Oookay. And if we wanted a Spezza-like player, why don't we just sign that guy as a FA instead of trading for him? It's all ridiculous to begin with, but it doesn't remotely change the fact that the Habs would never trade Markov for Spezza.
i didn't mean replace Markov's value, i meant replace his spot, in the top-6. but fair enough, markov's value to you guys is more than his value to us, and that's completely understandable. i guess this is like discussing a Malkin for Phanuef swap where both teams will argue who's more valuable to their team.
Thats bad asset management thats why. When you can upgrade your teams overall value that significantly you take it and figure it out from there. That isnt a hard concept to figure out.
If Ottawa was in a situation when it had the three right wingers havlat hossa and alfredsson and someone offered them a large upgrade over Bonk (who at the time was scoring 60 + points) and was the first line centerman for another very good right winger who blows him out in trade value I still make the trade. More assets = better chance of winning in the end.
The bottom line is that it wouldn't be a significant enough overall value improvement to also take on the associated risks of requiring additional moves in order to actually realize that improvement. As there are far easier and less risky ways of achieving the same overall asset improvement (see: unrestricted free agency) then there is no motivation to pursue any such deal with higher associated risk. Hopefully that also isn't a hard concept to figure out. But I'm losing hope.
I wouldn't do this for the simple fact that losing Markov without a suitable replacement would kill our transition game.
Just look at Ottawa , they have all these superstars upfront but their transition game sucks (used to be much better when Redden wasn't sucking) and it's one of the main reason why they had such an hard time this year. I wouldn't want to see th Habs in a similar situation.
And that's why you're not a GM. If nothing else, Montreal would flip Spezza for something significantly better than Markov.
Usually, GMs make 3 way trades to AVOID trading within their division...not to enable it.
Anyways, I'm curious to know what they would move Spezza for that's "significantly better" than Markov? Even among Hab haters its accepted that Markov is a top 10 defenseman who is just entering his prime and locked up for another 3 years at a decent price. For a team that is thin on top flight defenseman, there aren't many players that are upgrades over Markov, and many of the ones that are will take more than Spezza.
Spezza is the more valuable commodity no doubt, but I'm not quite sure what Sens fans think they can get for him on the open market. Not to mention, after his "performance" in these playoffs, his value isn't really at an all time high. Although Markov wasn't exactly a stud in the postseason either.
Overall, Habs fans don't like the deal because it weakens their D corps to the point of absurdity , Sens fans don't like it because it's not fair value. Bad proposal
Trying to say that Montreal doesnt win this deal is hilarious. Spezza is a franchise centerman, Markov just realised his number one d man potential. And at that he is in the lower tier in the league a big hell no from a sens fan over here.
They win the deal, but it doesn't help their team therefore Montreal should and would not do this deal. When Markov is out of the lineup or is playing hurt Montreal is a totally different team, the guy simply makes their team a lot better. Spezza is a very, very good player but I would not consider him a franchise player. A franchise player is someone like Malkin or Iginla who can carry a team on their back and doesn't have to depend on who they play with. Yes Spezza DOES make players around him better but Spezza has played with 2 elite players and still has been unable to crack 100 points.
The deal makes no sense for either team and if Ottawa were to ever trade Spezza it'd make more sense to deal him for a goalie than a defenceman.
Montreal only trades for a center if they can get rid of a center. Not their #1 D, they don't have a replacement.
Ottawa only trades their #1 C if they can replace their #1 C. Mike Fisher. Yeah right.
This is a stupid proposal, and neither team does this.
Also if Montreal wants a bigger C, they will take one that uses that size. As it stands, both Pleks and Saks are way more physical than Spezza. None of these players will throw a bodycheck that will scare the opposition but at least the Montreal guys will throw bodychecks.
Montreal gets worse with this trade because Patrice Brisebois is making breakout passes to Spezza now instead of Markov to Plekanecs.
Who cares if Spezza is the best player in the deal. He doesn't fit.
Anyways, it's a moot point as Ottawa could get more for Spezza if he were ever available.
What have Weber or Bouwmeester ever done to be considered better than Markov at this point in their respective careers? They will probably be better in the future, but as of now, no.
What have Weber or Bouwmeester ever done to be considered better than Markov at this point in their respective careers? They will probably be better in the future, but as of now, no.
Bouwmeester is an Olympian and Weber is complete class. Some injury concerns but his game is absolutely incredible and yes, I'd take him now over Markov now.
Bouwmeester is an Olympian and Weber is complete class. Some injury concerns but his game is absolutely incredible and yes, I'd take him now over Markov now.
And before you ask, Centre Ice so quite a few.
They are really good and will only get better, but your arguments in support of your postion, 'Olympics' and 'complete class', aren't exactly compelling. Hell, Bryan McCabe is an Olympian.
Is Spezza the most overrated center in the league or what?
He's a total product of Alfredsson and Heatley... without them, he would be a border ppg guy, still good no1 center, but not a franchise center. What did he do this year, while both his teammates were injured? Nothing... and he still had trouble while one of them was gone...
Markov on the other hand is a sure top 10 D-men in the league (he might even be a top 5... Gonchar, Weber and cie aren't as good btw...)
He has a better contract than Spezza and in the game today, you NEED a d-man like Markov to win games... he's solid in all aspect of the game (except the physical play... even if he's not afraid of it)...
And finally a 60pts d-man = 100pts forward...
Add to this that Markov is excellent defensively and Spezza sucks... there's a case to think that Spezza wouldn't be enough...
Anyway, Gainey wouldn't do it... he might consider it, but the defence is too solid right now to create a hole that massive to bring one of the softest center in the league (Pleks and Koivu are grittier than Spezza...)
Spezza is a great player, but just not that good...
Is Spezza the most overrated center in the league or what?
He's a total product of Alfredsson and Heatley... without them, he would be a border ppg guy, still good no1 center, but not a franchise center. What did he do this year, while both his teammates were injured? Nothing... and he still had trouble while one of them was gone...
Markov on the other hand is a sure top 10 D-men in the league (he might even be a top 5... Gonchar, Weber and cie aren't as good btw...)
He has a better contract than Spezza and in the game today, you NEED a d-man like Markov to win games... he's solid in all aspect of the game (except the physical play... even if he's not afraid of it)...
And finally a 60pts d-man = 100pts forward...
Add to this that Markov is excellent defensively and Spezza sucks... there's a case to think that Spezza wouldn't be enough...
Anyway, Gainey wouldn't do it... he might consider it, but the defence is too solid right now to create a hole that massive to bring one of the softest center in the league (Pleks and Koivu are grittier than Spezza...)
Spezza is a great player, but just not that good...
I hear what you're saying. Spezza has alot of talent, but people who call him a 100pt forward forget the fact that if he was dealt to Montreal he wouldn't be bringing Heatley and Alfredsson with him. In Montreal I figure he would be an 85 pt center, which at the end of the day is only about 15-20 pts more than what Pleks and Koivu provide the Habs. No way is an 85 pt defensively challenged center worth our best all round player.
