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Old
04-30-2008, 11:44 AM
  #1
Bam19
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Trade proposal from Van

Would you trade

Zherdev

for

Bieksa + Pyatt/Raymond/Grabner/Shannon

If yes which one of the those four

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04-30-2008, 11:48 AM
  #2
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No, we have enough shutdown defensemen.

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04-30-2008, 11:52 AM
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DJAnimosity
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Nope, no need for Bieksa + prospects/scrubs. Especially at the cost of Zherdev.

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04-30-2008, 11:52 AM
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Timeless Winter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
No, we have enough shutdown defensemen.
We do?? I only know of Hejda.

Anyways, I like Grabner, but not for Zherdev.

Bieksa + Grabner for Brule + Fritsche + Tollefsen

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04-30-2008, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
We do?? I only know of Hejda.
Hejda
Klesla
Tollefsen
Rome
Methot

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04-30-2008, 11:56 AM
  #6
CapnCornelius
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Pass. How about Brule for Bourdon.

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04-30-2008, 12:04 PM
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Bieksa is a good player and would help out our team but his calf is a big question mark for me. Too big of a question mark for a player of Zherdev's caliber. Adding prospects that don't impact our team now doesn't help facilitate the trade of one of our few goal scorers.

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04-30-2008, 12:14 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Pass. How about Brule for Bourdon.

Sadly Brule looks like a bust which makes me sad cause he was great for the Giants

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04-30-2008, 12:19 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dru View Post
Bieksa is a good player and would help out our team but his calf is a big question mark for me. Too big of a question mark for a player of Zherdev's caliber. Adding prospects that don't impact our team now doesn't help facilitate the trade of one of our few goal scorers.
I highly doubt his calf would be lacerated again. When he got back, his skating was fine.

also fyi bam, the jackets need a #1 center more than anything else.

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04-30-2008, 12:21 PM
  #10
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If Klesla is a shutdown defeseman, that would make just about every defenseman in the NHL a shutdown guy then. It's Hejda and that's it. Rome is an AHL shutdown guy.

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04-30-2008, 12:24 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
Nope, no need for Bieksa + prospects/scrubs. Especially at the cost of Zherdev.
I don't know, Mason Raymond is someone that will be making an impact for years - assuming he recovers from his busted knee. And Bieksa is almost exactly what the Jackets need on the blueline - tough-as-nails, puck-moving defenseman with a booming slapshot.

I'd actually be shocked if the Canucks decided to trade Bieksa for some reason.

But if Howson was offered Raymond and Bieksa for Zherdev, I'd be angry if he didn't take it.

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04-30-2008, 12:24 PM
  #12
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It saddens me to see names thrown around as bust so early in their careers. I realize things are a bit different in the salary cap world but the fact is development time is development time and some take longer than others. If you need some help in this area go the the AHL website and look in the archives for player of the whatever (week day hour you get the drift). Scroll back about 8-10 years and look at some of the names. Here's a little hint for those to lazy to go look. A lot of the names you will see have only come into thier own in the last couple of seasons and are the same names being thrown around as highly desired for our squad. Guess it is a good thing that they weren't labeled as busts back then because they needed time to mature.

P.S. I don't think Brule has what it takes to play full time in the NHL right now and might never. I also don't think it is time to start throwing around "bust" as a tag for him.

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04-30-2008, 12:37 PM
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Not sure I'd move Z for him as I would save him as an asset to move for a #1 center or dman but I would absolutely love to add a guy like Bieska.

2007 Vancouver NHL 34 2 10 12 -11 90 3.1
2006 Vancouver NHL 81 12 30 42 1 134 5.9
2005 Vancouver NHL 39 0 6 6 -1 77 --

Assets - Loves to initiate contact from the back end. Owns a big shot from the point. Is defensively responsible and able to log big minutes. Can fight, too.

Flaws - Plays an aggressive style that wears down over the course of an 82-game NHL schedule. Does take bad penalties that hurt his club on occasion.

Career potential - Top four defenseman.

This guy is 26 and is only going to get better. That 42 point season is better than anything Hainsey has given us and he isn't afraid to drop the gloves or be physical.

So he had a fluke injury. I get my Dr.s to check him out, look at some video tape and if he's 100% then I absolutely make a play assuming he checks out.

This guy is an upgrade from Hainsey in every single facet of the game sans penalties. He's signed for 3 more years at 4.25, 3.5 & 3.5.

I'd start with Brule and go from there. Either that or Colorado's first.

This guy makes us a better team and would be a valuable piece to the puzzle.

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Old
04-30-2008, 12:57 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Shelf View Post
Not sure I'd move Z for him as I would save him as an asset to move for a #1 center or dman but I would absolutely love to add a guy like Bieska.

2007 Vancouver NHL 34 2 10 12 -11 90 3.1
2006 Vancouver NHL 81 12 30 42 1 134 5.9
2005 Vancouver NHL 39 0 6 6 -1 77 --

Assets - Loves to initiate contact from the back end. Owns a big shot from the point. Is defensively responsible and able to log big minutes. Can fight, too.

Flaws - Plays an aggressive style that wears down over the course of an 82-game NHL schedule. Does take bad penalties that hurt his club on occasion.

Career potential - Top four defenseman.

This guy is 26 and is only going to get better. That 42 point season is better than anything Hainsey has given us and he isn't afraid to drop the gloves or be physical.

So he had a fluke injury. I get my Dr.s to check him out, look at some video tape and if he's 100% then I absolutely make a play assuming he checks out.

This guy is an upgrade from Hainsey in every single facet of the game sans penalties. He's signed for 3 more years at 4.25, 3.5 & 3.5.

I'd start with Brule and go from there. Either that or Colorado's first.

This guy makes us a better team and would be a valuable piece to the puzzle.
I would go with Colorado's first before Brule but wouldn't be opposed to going either way.

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04-30-2008, 12:58 PM
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DJAnimosity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Shelf View Post
This guy is an upgrade from Hainsey in every single facet of the game sans penalties. He's signed for 3 more years at 4.25, 3.5 & 3.5.
He should be an upgrade on Hainsey, as he's about 4 times as expensive.

Look, Bieksa is OK - he's had one good season in the NHL, and got a good contract out of it. I wouldn't be averse to having him on the Jackets. But trading Z (or any asset more than draft picks) for him would be a classic MacLean move - downgrading one position to upgrade (marginally) another.

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Old
04-30-2008, 12:59 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
He should be an upgrade on Hainsey, as he's about 4 times as expensive.

Look, Bieksa is OK - he's had one good season in the NHL, and got a good contract out of it. I wouldn't be averse to having him on the Jackets. But trading Z (or any asset more than draft picks) for him would be a classic MacLean move - downgrading one position to upgrade (marginally) another.
Do you honestly think we could get Hainsey to sign for less than him?

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Old
04-30-2008, 01:03 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Aging Goalie View Post
Do you honestly think we could get Hainsey to sign for less than him?
I like Bieksa, but even if Hainsey signed for the 3.5 KB's getting the next couple years, I'd take Hollywood. Outside of physical presence, I don't see Bieksa as a clear upgrade over Hainsey, especially one that's going to cost me not only his salary but also an asset in the other direction.

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Old
04-30-2008, 01:08 PM
  #18
DJAnimosity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
I like Bieksa, but even if Hainsey signed for the 3.5 KB's getting the next couple years, I'd take Hollywood. Outside of physical presence, I don't see Bieksa as a clear upgrade over Hainsey, especially one that's going to cost me not only his salary but also an asset in the other direction.
What he said.

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Old
04-30-2008, 01:12 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
What he said.
I would take Hainsey in a minute if he would just add more physical play to his game. He just always leaves me with an impression of someone who comes to work and does the job but won't jump in and get dirty if the machine needs fixed.

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04-30-2008, 01:24 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Aging Goalie View Post
It saddens me to see names thrown around as bust so early in their careers. I realize things are a bit different in the salary cap world but the fact is development time is development time and some take longer than others. If you need some help in this area go the the AHL website and look in the archives for player of the whatever (week day hour you get the drift). Scroll back about 8-10 years and look at some of the names. Here's a little hint for those to lazy to go look. A lot of the names you will see have only come into thier own in the last couple of seasons and are the same names being thrown around as highly desired for our squad. Guess it is a good thing that they weren't labeled as busts back then because they needed time to mature.

P.S. I don't think Brule has what it takes to play full time in the NHL right now and might never. I also don't think it is time to start throwing around "bust" as a tag for him.
he can't even perform in the ahl. he is a bust. doesnt mean he can't improve. but as of today, the guy is a bust.

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04-30-2008, 02:03 PM
  #21
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Since the crop of potential UFA defensemen is better than that of the centers, if Zherdev were to be moved, I would prefer that it be for a center, not a defenseman. I'd be OK with using the two first round picks and Zherdev (not preferred, but if necessary) as the main trade bait for the two centers the team will need next season (assuming Brassard isn't ready). Acquire a puck-moving defenseman and a RW (if Z is moved) via free agency, and that should address the team's major needs going into next season.

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Old
04-30-2008, 02:10 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by RDriesen16 View Post
he can't even perform in the ahl. he is a bust. doesnt mean he can't improve. but as of today, the guy is a bust.
Take a gander at thes for comparison:

Brule's Pt total for same stage of career is in bold
94-95 QMJHL 72 51 72 123 71 in 49 games
95-96 QMJHL 67 67 96 163 100/67 games
96-97 QMJHL 59 52 78 130 169/70 games
97-98 AHL.... 68 36 56 92 ..40/27 games Still in JR due to age
97-98 NHL.... 5 . 01 00 01 ..4/in 7 games before injury
98-99 NHL.... 64 08 14 22 .. 19/78 games
98-99 AHL.... 13 02 06 08 .. no minor league
98-99 IHL..... 01 01 01 02... no minor league
99-00 AHL.... 58 29 42 71 .. 10 / 16 games
99-00 NHL.... 13 01 01 02 .. 9/61 games

So to break it down we get the following
Player A stat #:
  1. 1.708 pts/game
  2. 2.43
  3. 2.20
  4. 1.35
  5. 0.20
  6. 0.34
  7. 1.22
  8. 0.15
Avg for player A is 1.2 pts/game
Brule :
  1. 1.45
  2. 1.49
  3. 2.41
  4. 1.48
  5. 0.57
  6. 0.24
  7. 0.63
  8. 0.15
Average for Brule is 1.05 pts per game and without the proper time in the minors.

So along those lines I really can't see where his development path is off pace from this center that is used for example. Seems like the numbers are really right where they should be. I would hardly call Daniel Briere (owner of the above stats) a bust in any sense of the word.


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Old
04-30-2008, 02:51 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Aging Goalie View Post
So along those lines I really can't see where his development path is off pace from this center that is used for example. Seems like the numbers are really right where they should be. I would hardly call Daniel Briere (owner of the above stats) a bust in any sense of the word.
So will he be the next Daniel Briere, or the next Rico Fata?

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Old
04-30-2008, 03:12 PM
  #24
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So will he be the next Daniel Briere, or the next Rico Fata?
No way to tell the future but to call a kid a bust at this stage isn't exactly a fair statement based on his numbers. He is only being called a bust because we have seen and heard more of him than really we should have. He should have been left in Juniors until he was old enough to play in the minors and then left there with the occasional looksy to check his progress until ready. We can't go back and change his past but we shouldn't call him a bust for being on pace.

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04-30-2008, 04:34 PM
  #25
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Why is everyone talking as if Ron Hainsey and Kevin Bieksa are mutually exclusive?

It is entirely possible to have them both playing at the same time. They both bring different things to the table. And a top-four of Hejda, Klesla, Bieksa, Hainsey would be pretty rad.

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