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Old
05-05-2008, 07:39 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
Screw Holly and Orr. I want to see a Byers Betts Jessiman 4th line next year.
It will deliver a hell of alot more than the HBO Line.

I want to see Korpi on the 3rd line with Dubi and Sjostrom.

2nd line Cally, Drury and Dawes

1st line Avery, Gomez and Hossa

Prucha gets traded to St. Louis for the third we gave up for Backman.
we should ask for more since Backman sucked so much

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05-05-2008, 08:21 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
if jagr doesnt return that is the lineup i would like to see.....although i think orr will have to be in the lineup so i would say one of jessiman or byers
Jagr is not coming back next year. Omsk will make Jagr a Tax Free Offer no team in the NHL will come close to.

Jags will get a 6 million dollar offer from the Rangers and not more anywhere else and Omsk will come in with a 7.5 million dollar Tax free offer. The real $ differance could be more than 3 Million dollars.

Believe me, the NHL has seen the last of Jags.

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05-05-2008, 08:25 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
Screw Holly and Orr. I want to see a Byers Betts Jessiman 4th line next year.
It will deliver a hell of alot more than the HBO Line.

I want to see Korpi on the 3rd line with Dubi and Sjostrom.

2nd line Cally, Drury and Dawes

1st line Avery, Gomez and Hossa

Prucha gets traded to St. Louis for the third we gave up for Backman.
Korpi will get alot of ice time next year because Renney loves to Roll lines during the season. And if Korpi kills Penalties, he will get more ice time. I doubt he gets much ice time on the PP unless there are injuries

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05-05-2008, 08:37 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Captain Monglobster View Post
Putting him on A fourth line would not be a bad move. Putting him on the Rangers fourth line most likely would. What's he gonna do with Betts and Orr/? as linemates?
Betts isn't chopped liver with production for a fourth liner. However, his production has been hurt by centering two guys with cement hands in Orr and Hollweg.

I think if you had a fourth line of Korpikoski and Betts, they could probably score a combined 16-20 some odd goals. Korpikoski's style is such that he probably wouldn't be hurt starting on the fourth line because he doesn't really project as a top end offensive player who needs the icetime to keep his confidence up.

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05-05-2008, 08:41 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Ovens View Post
I really like him, but he should start on the 4th line until he gets up to speed, however I fear this will leave us stacked with 4th liners...
Not really. I think Byers/Korpikoski will battle for icetime and you'll have Moore in the mix as well.

Depending on how guys progress, a kid like Korpikoski or Moore might even move up to the third line if they do well enough.

The two guys who are the odd men out will probably be Prucha and Hollweg. At least that's my guess right now.

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05-05-2008, 08:45 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Betts isn't chopped liver with production for a fourth liner. However, his production has been hurt by centering two guys with cement hands in Orr and Hollweg.

I think if you had a fourth line of Korpikoski and Betts, they could probably score a combined 16-20 some odd goals. Korpikoski's style is such that he probably wouldn't be hurt starting on the fourth line because he doesn't really project as a top end offensive player who needs the icetime to keep his confidence up.
Before I even start I want to say I like Betts for what he is, a good energy 4th liner and great on the PK and face offs. Having said that the guy can't finish to save his life. His production stayed the same after getting Sjostrom on his wing. I don't see how Korp can be more effective considering they both play the same kind of speed game.

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05-05-2008, 08:50 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Before I even start I want to say I like Betts for what he is, a good energy 4th liner and great on the PK and face offs. Having said that the guy can't finish to save his life. His production stayed the same after getting Sjostrom on his wing. I don't see how Korp can be more effective considering they both play the same kind of speed game.
Betts has shown he can pop in about 10 goals a season, which is pretty good for a fourth line center.

As for Sjostrom, they didn't play THAT much together. Betts was also hurt late in the season. I think a full season together would certainly help.

Betts is not a "finisher" so to speak. He's a guy who can pop in the odd point if he's playing on a whole line that can pop in the odd point. Something that wasn't really a reality last season.

Keep in mind we are talking about a fourth line. I'm not expecting 15-20 goals out of Betts all of a sudden. But the guy has scored at every level he's played at and when he was with better linemates he put up 6 goals in 66 games and 9 goals in 82. And you could argue that playing with Korpikoski and Sjostrom would actually be his best everyday linemates since entering the NHL.

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05-05-2008, 09:24 PM
  #83
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I'm excited to see this kids offensive productivity, hoping for 4th line, atleast, next season.

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05-05-2008, 09:30 PM
  #84
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if jagr leaves i would love to see a line of sjostrom-drury-korpikoski......all out speed and tenacity from that line plus the fact they are all studs on the defensive end....renney would finally have his shut-down line

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05-05-2008, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Betts has shown he can pop in about 10 goals a season, which is pretty good for a fourth line center.

As for Sjostrom, they didn't play THAT much together. Betts was also hurt late in the season. I think a full season together would certainly help.

Betts is not a "finisher" so to speak. He's a guy who can pop in the odd point if he's playing on a whole line that can pop in the odd point. Something that wasn't really a reality last season.

Keep in mind we are talking about a fourth line. I'm not expecting 15-20 goals out of Betts all of a sudden. But the guy has scored at every level he's played at and when he was with better linemates he put up 6 goals in 66 games and 9 goals in 82. And you could argue that playing with Korpikoski and Sjostrom would actually be his best everyday linemates since entering the NHL.
Yea a line with Korps-Betts-Sjostrom would be a fun 4th lune to watch. It actually gives us some scoring threat from the 4th line. If they can put it together i cant imagine teams stopping 4 lines constantly. The rangers depth just keeps improving. Jagr needs to stay on this team until the rangers pull in a gaborik or a kovalchuck,

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05-05-2008, 10:29 PM
  #86
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If you had a line of Korpikoski-Betts-Sjostrom and they netted 20 goals between the three of them, that still wouldn't be a bad situation. It would also about four times what we saw last season.

Orr is what he is. But I don't know if he's a 70+games type of player.

My gut tells me that Hollweg has played his last game in a Ranger uniform.

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05-05-2008, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
If you had a line of Korpikoski-Betts-Sjostrom and they netted 20 goals between the three of them, that still wouldn't be a bad situation. It would also about four times what we saw last season.

Orr is what he is. But I don't know if he's a 70+games type of player.

My gut tells me that Hollweg has played his last game in a Ranger uniform.
Edge the problem with the current rangers roster is the lack of physicality. We've heard it many times before and personally i dont think a 4th line player in hollweg who only plays 5 minutes a game is the answer. But looking at how the the flyers have advanced to the ECF you have to wonder if the team will be getting softer if they created that type of 4th line. How do you see this developing for the rangers?

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05-05-2008, 10:44 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Blackburn2727 View Post
Edge the problem with the current rangers roster is the lack of physicality. We've heard it many times before and personally i dont think a 4th line player in hollweg who only plays 5 minutes a game is the answer. But looking at how the the flyers have advanced to the ECF you have to wonder if the team will be getting softer if they created that type of 4th line. How do you see this developing for the rangers?
Will it be the most physical fourth line? No, but I don't think it'll be a push over either.

It also depends on who else is on the team. Sjostrom or Korpikoski might very well see third line duty and that's where you plug in guys like Byers or Orr on the fourth line.

At the end of the day there are going to be some growing pains and that's just a product of having a lot of young talent.

Right now the Rangers have some very serious holes to fill if they lose all the UFA wingers. They won't be tough enough to hang with the toughies, won't be defensive enough to stop the highscoring teams and won't produce enough points to outscore them either.

We might have to live with a pretty imperfect team next year so that we can lay the groundwork for the future.

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05-05-2008, 10:46 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Blackburn2727 View Post
Edge the problem with the current rangers roster is the lack of physicality. We've heard it many times before and personally i dont think a 4th line player in hollweg who only plays 5 minutes a game is the answer. But looking at how the the flyers have advanced to the ECF you have to wonder if the team will be getting softer if they created that type of 4th line. How do you see this developing for the rangers?
this is why I put Byers and Jessiman on the 4th line. Young guys with size, can be physical, can fight(yes, I know Jessiman got killed by Downie in the preseason but I heard Hugh really improved his fighting and his all around game in the minors) and can pot a few goals. I like Korpi on the 3rd line with Sjostrom and Dubi. I wouldnt mind a few shifts with Gomer(Man that would be the fastest line in the league). If Byers and Jessiman along with Korpi progress during the season, the could be mixed and matched.

Eventually, I would like to get a 4th line center with a little more offensive upside than Blair Betts, however we need the PK and the Faceoff ability.

Getting Back to Korpi, I think he needs 3rd line minutes, especially the way Renny rolls lines.

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05-05-2008, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
If you had a line of Korpikoski-Betts-Sjostrom and they netted 20 goals between the three of them, that still wouldn't be a bad situation. It would also about four times what we saw last season.

Orr is what he is. But I don't know if he's a 70+games type of player.

My gut tells me that Hollweg has played his last game in a Ranger uniform.
let it be true

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05-05-2008, 11:10 PM
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I think it's great he scored a goal in game 5. Great, great moment for him.

That said I'm not convinced he makes the team next year straight out of camp.

I could see him get up and downed like Dawes was until Renny thinks he's got it right.

He's a fast SOB thats fer shur.

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05-05-2008, 11:15 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
this is why I put Byers and Jessiman on the 4th line. Young guys with size, can be physical, can fight(yes, I know Jessiman got killed by Downie in the preseason but I heard Hugh really improved his fighting and his all around game in the minors) and can pot a few goals. I like Korpi on the 3rd line with Sjostrom and Dubi. I wouldnt mind a few shifts with Gomer(Man that would be the fastest line in the league). If Byers and Jessiman along with Korpi progress during the season, the could be mixed and matched.

Eventually, I would like to get a 4th line center with a little more offensive upside than Blair Betts, however we need the PK and the Faceoff ability.

Getting Back to Korpi, I think he needs 3rd line minutes, especially the way Renny rolls lines.
First off, we're not back to two rookies on the fourth line which says nothing about having Dawes, Korpikoski and Callahan on the roster. Three guys who haven't even played a full NHL schedule yet. That also doesn't include Dubinsky and his 80 some odd games of experience and a defense that is going to feature one player with one season under his belt and (according to your roster) another rookie.

That's about 8 guys or almost half of our roster who hasn't even played 100 NHL games. Even for the baby corps Oilers of the mid-90's that would be a leap.

Secondly, if you're looking for a fourth line banger with some pop. Byers is your guy with the inside track there. Better fighter. Better scorer. Better checker. Two years younger.

Finally, we're putting all of our eggs into a basket in which guys haven't even won a spot out of camp first. That's a huge roll of the dice in and of itself.

Not only are we prematurely putting guys in places they haven't won yet, in some cases we're promoting the guy who sits comfortably as the number three or four option over the higher ranking guys simply based on where he was drafted half a decade ago.

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05-05-2008, 11:17 PM
  #93
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if the rangers lose all of those wingers i am serious when i say i dont want to fill even half the spots with FA's.....let the young guys play and see what the rangers have...maybe they will do fine...maybe they will lay the groudwork for a trade for a very good player with them and allow more young talent to supplant them.....maybe they dont do well next year and learn a lot like montreal did 2 years ago...either way you have to trust your drafting and let these kids get theri time because it will pay off later on

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05-05-2008, 11:19 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Will it be the most physical fourth line? No, but I don't think it'll be a push over either.

It also depends on who else is on the team. Sjostrom or Korpikoski might very well see third line duty and that's where you plug in guys like Byers or Orr on the fourth line.

At the end of the day there are going to be some growing pains and that's just a product of having a lot of young talent.

Right now the Rangers have some very serious holes to fill if they lose all the UFA wingers. They won't be tough enough to hang with the toughies, won't be defensive enough to stop the highscoring teams and won't produce enough points to outscore them either.

We might have to live with a pretty imperfect team next year so that we can lay the groundwork for the future.
I'm actually OK with that if they commit to it. I think it would pay great long term benefits.

As I said in another thread the Rangers need to be bigger, tougher and meaner. But they need guys that can do it for 70+ games along with some scoring and those are tough players to find.

I'm thinking Byers, Dupont and maybe even Jessiman are candidates for that role.

Korpikoski impresses me as player that should be at least 3rd to 2nd liner. He and Freddy might be nice together with that speed they both have.

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05-05-2008, 11:25 PM
  #95
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if the rangers lose all of those wingers i am serious when i say i dont want to fill even half the spots with FA's.....let the young guys play and see what the rangers have...maybe they will do fine...maybe they will lay the groudwork for a trade for a very good player with them and allow more young talent to supplant them.....maybe they dont do well next year and learn a lot like montreal did 2 years ago...either way you have to trust your drafting and let these kids get theri time because it will pay off later on
Sorry, but I strongly disagree.

There is a difference between letting kids come up and play as ready and throwing them to the lions too soon.

That's the difference between the Senators of the early/mid 90's and the Senators we saw at their peak.

You still need veterans. If a kid isn't ready, throwing him in the NHL with other kids who aren't is not going to help anyone. You're not going to push them, you are going to trap them and run the risk of ruining them. And for what? A whiff of that new car smell?

Let's face it, the only reason this is even a conversation is because it's easy to dream when you see a 21-year old as opposed to a 29 year old. But the reality is that not all these kids are ready and many of these names haven't even won a battle out of camp yet. Those that have are being counted as givens way too soon and the pressure would be on them before they even start to have to score more.

Even montreal of two years ago wouldn't have had 40% of their roster with as little experience as you'd be asking the Rangers to have.

And let us not forget how that impacts other players on this team. Are we prepare to watch Lundqvist face 40 shots a game? Furthermore are we prepared to have him lose 30 or 35 games as the kids "learn"?

For that matter, who exactly is going to guide all the kids if they hit a wall?

As much fun as fielding a team that young sounds, you NEED some veterans to balance the lines.

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05-05-2008, 11:26 PM
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I'm actually OK with that if they commit to it. I think it would pay great long term benefits.

As I said in another thread the Rangers need to be bigger, tougher and meaner. But they need guys that can do it for 70+ games along with some scoring and those are tough players to find.

I'm thinking Byers, Dupont and maybe even Jessiman are candidates for that role.

Korpikoski impresses me as player that should be at least 3rd to 2nd liner. He and Freddy might be nice together with that speed they both have.
Dupont is nowhere near ready.

Jessiman is barely that player at the AHL level.

And korpikoski is a kid who is not going to step in and be a second line player right away nor do I think it prudent to place that expectation upon him.

I think we're starting to really stretch here to fill holes we're nervous about having. That's when we have to be the most careful.

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05-05-2008, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Sorry, but I strongly disagree.

There is a difference between letting kids come up and play as ready and throwing them to the lions too soon.

That's the difference between the Senators of the early/mid 90's and the Senators we saw at their peak.

You still need veterans. If a kid isn't ready, throwing him in the NHL with other kids who aren't is not going to help anyone. You're not going to push them, you are going to trap them and run the risk of ruining them. And for what? A whiff of that new car smell?

Let's face it, the only reason this is even a conversation is because it's easy to dream when you see a 21-year old as opposed to a 29 year old. But the reality is that not all these kids are ready and many of these names haven't even won a battle out of camp yet. Those that have are being counted as givens way too soon and the pressure would be on them before they even start to have to score more.

Even montreal of two years ago wouldn't have had 40% of their roster with as little experience as you'd be asking the Rangers to have.

And let us not forget how that impacts other players on this team. Are we prepare to watch Lundqvist face 40 shots a game? Furthermore are we prepared to have him lose 30 or 35 games as the kids "learn"?

For that matter, who exactly is going to guide all the kids if they hit a wall?

As much fun as fielding a team that young sounds, you NEED some veterans to balance the lines.
i understand what your saying.....i have named the players who will be ready in the next few years IMO.....there are quite a few.....i think if there is a chance to either add three FA's or add 2 young players and one FA, i would rather try to add the latter.....if there are 4 spots on the wings open, i would like ot see the rangers sign one player....whoever it may be and let some kids try out for those rolls....if it doesnt work out then trade for someone but all of the FA's are going to cost too much and ask for too many years....this is their payday and they deserve it but i just dont want to see them in the way of the future......im not saying dont resign jagr, avery or straka...heck if they all will take what they are worth i would like them back....allowing one spot for the young players to fight over...i just dont want the rangers to handcuff themeselves in the future by trying to shore holes for one or two years...

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05-05-2008, 11:35 PM
  #98
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i understand what your saying.....i have named the players who will be ready in the next few years IMO.....there are quite a few.....i think if there is a chance to either add three FA's or add 2 young players and one FA, i would rather try to add the latter.....if there are 4 spots on the wings open, i would like ot see the rangers sign one player....whoever it may be and let some kids try out for those rolls....if it doesnt work out then trade for someone but all of the FA's are going to cost too much and ask for too many years....this is their payday and they deserve it but i just dont want to see them in the way of the future......im not saying dont resign jagr, avery or straka...heck if they all will take what they are worth i would like them back....allowing one spot for the young players to fight over...i just dont want the rangers to handcuff themeselves in the future by trying to shore holes for one or two years...
If they fill a hole for one year I don't see how they can handcuff themselves.

And having one or two rookies isn't the issue. It's when we start getting into four and five (or more) that it becomes an issue.

I'd have no problem if,say, Korpikoski and Byers made the team next year. But there has to be some veterans on this roster as well.

There are always guys who can be signed for one year deals on the cheap. It's really not that rare of a happening.

Those are probably the guys you're looking at. The question is whether people on here can accept that. When I talk about an imperfect team, that's the heart of what I am getting at.

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05-05-2008, 11:36 PM
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Dupont is nowhere near ready.

Jessiman is barely that player at the AHL level.

And korpikoski is a kid who is not going to step in and be a second line player right away nor do I think it prudent to place that expectation upon him.

I think we're starting to really stretch here to fill holes we're nervous about having. That's when we have to be the most careful.
I should have been more clear (tired, I should just sleep). I'm thinking more long term and just doing an inventory of what we have...

...which in the big, tough and skilled department is a little thin admittedly.

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05-05-2008, 11:46 PM
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If they fill a hole for one year I don't see how they can handcuff themselves.

And having one or two rookies isn't the issue. It's when we start getting into four and five (or more) that it becomes an issue.

I'd have no problem if,say, Korpikoski and Byers made the team next year. But there has to be some veterans on this roster as well.

There are always guys who can be signed for one year deals on the cheap. It's really not that rare of a happening.

Those are probably the guys you're looking at. The question is whether people on here can accept that. When I talk about an imperfect team, that's the heart of what I am getting at.
okay....we are on the same side then haha....i just was saying i would rather play the younger guys(not saying its a good thing) rather then trying to fill 2-3 holes with guys like malone, ryder and hossa who will want long-term deals for a lot of money.....i would like to see probably 3 players up next year....they are korpikoski, byers and potter/baranka....i think if the rangers can slot them into the lineup next year it will continue the flow of good young players and it will keep their payroll down

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