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Coach Renney's post game

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Old
05-04-2008, 10:36 PM
  #51
Jackson Ranger
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I look at this series with Renney and see a coach with a 3 goal lead in the first game of the second round, only to see the lead evaporate without calling a timeout. I see a second game with no emotion (one of my pet peeves with him is his lack of fire) to go down 2-0.

Finally in game 3, the team shows some emotion only to be bit by a season long deficiency on the PP and also a third straight game of giving up a PP goal without changing any personnel whatsoever (in fact overplaying guys like Shanny and Gomez).

Then because of injury, he is forced into injecting new faces into the lineup including finally getting a defenseman out who never fit into the team after being traded here.

I like Renney because he is a players coach and I think he does well with younger players. However, I think the Rangers can do better.

Therefore, if the Rangers are intent on retooling over the summer with some UFA's and trades, then get rid of him. If not, go with the kids next year and keep him.

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05-04-2008, 10:36 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWayBShirt View Post
to quote e.j. hradek...

"renney is a great manager of personalities but his in-game coaching leaves a lot to be desired."
Yep, thats exactly the way I think of him. Hed make a superb assistant coach.

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05-04-2008, 10:42 PM
  #53
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i guess a big question that needs to be addressed this offseason is should it be up to sather to find players in the offseason that suit renney's style or should renney be adjusting to the improved talent level he gets better than he does?

those 2 need to be on the same page and make themselves clearer.

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05-04-2008, 10:42 PM
  #54
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Jackson...

that's a great post - great points. One of the best being in reference to Backman - who personally, I have not liked since day 1 and hadn't thought he fit into Renney's style.

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05-04-2008, 10:43 PM
  #55
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Coach and Gm should be on the same page...

coach should say this is what I need. GM either agrees and tries his best to get those guys or brings in a coach who can use the players he likes.

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05-04-2008, 10:44 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
coach should say this is what I need. GM either agrees and tries his best to get those guys or brings in a coach who can use the players he likes.
perhaps renney's not speaking up more?

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05-04-2008, 10:47 PM
  #57
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I doubt that....

I think Renney and Sather are on the same page. The draftees seem to be 'safe' kind of guys who Renney likes. I'm a bit surprised in the Backman pickup though - who seems like a guy Sather loathed in the past but that doesn't fit Renney's stle (reminds me a lot like Ulanov).

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05-04-2008, 10:47 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
that's a great post - great points. One of the best being in reference to Backman - who personally, I have not liked since day 1 and hadn't thought he fit into Renney's style.
Thanks Fletch. I think one of Renney's faults is his overall trust in his players. I think he is slow to make a change because of his strong loyalty. Whereas a coach like Keenan is too quick to make a change.

They need someone in the middle.

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05-04-2008, 10:48 PM
  #59
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Agreed...

a guy with Renney's brains and Keenan's sternness (and decisiveness). I think they call that guy Scott, or perhaps it's Scotty.

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05-04-2008, 10:49 PM
  #60
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The backman move was horrid. I think it was Sather's way of trying to get a guy for cheap who could play the point on the powerplay. Instead it backfired.

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05-04-2008, 10:52 PM
  #61
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The Rangers did not lose this series because of Renney, IMO. They lost because they made far too many mistakes in their own zone. You can get away with that against the stonehanded Devils, but not against a good team. How many times they screwed up holding the point or clearing the zone and paid dearly for it. Their defense needs an overhaul. The Czech experiment should be over. I do not expect Jagr, Rozsival or Straka to be back. Prucha might be a goner too. Same with Malik, Mara and perhaps Hollweg and Betts. We have to improve the skating speed and size and skill in order to overcome the opponents and the absurd referees.

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05-04-2008, 10:55 PM
  #62
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when i ask if renney speaks up, it refers to acquiring vets.

see, ppl here have brought up backman, and cullen last year.

what about aaron ward? a guy who was tough and played injured yes, but whom wasn't a good fit in the locker room and at least in my opinion was useless when he did play?

what about ozo? did renney really endorse that move for such a questionable guy?

that's where i wonder if he speaks up sometimes.

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05-04-2008, 10:58 PM
  #63
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Renney's adoration for Shanny...

is a sign that he's fine with vets. He ran Shanny into the ground last season. Overused him (and Drury) this season. I believe he and Sather are on the same page. Moreso than any other GM/coach duo in New York since I don't know when (I don't even think Sather was on the same page with himself when he was coach and GM).

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05-05-2008, 12:35 AM
  #64
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In my heart, I can't shake the feeling that Renney will be the coach right before we win. A Roger Neilson if you will.

The young Rangers players clearly buy into the defensive system the team has set up. The question is whether we can maintain that and develop their offensive skills.

Right now we have yet to produce a young player who has permanently made it over the hump offensivly. The first sign of us accomplishing that will be if Dubinsky and Dawes can pull it off. I don't think Prucha is going to bounce back as an offensive threat for this team.

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05-05-2008, 01:23 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Ill say it again.


Avery Dubinsky Jagr
Dawes Gomez Shanahan
Straka Drury Callahan


He didnt even try it once.....not even once, after gomez came back.

Say all you want about him, but that sticks out big time to me. The lineup that was absolutely dominating for nearly 2 months, and only got split up because of an injury, never were reunited.

How many times did Straka overpass the puck? Would Avery have shot it there instead? How many times did the combination of Dawes Drury and Callahan look invisible out there? Can the same be said when Straka was on the left wing to set up those other 2 guys?

Love Renney all you want, but nobody, nobody at all can justify this egregious mistake. He didnt even try it once guys. And that bugs me more than even our power play ineptitude.
DEAD ON. We have been saying this for a long time and for some reason nobody wants to hear it. We will not win the Cup with Renney as our coach. He is too slow to react if he ever does. Today I saw Drury and Gomez on the ice for a key def. zone faceoff and was so impressed that he made the move. Then it occurred to me that EVERY NHL coach HAS to made that move. It wasn't smart, it was obvious but that is where we are with Renney. We can only hope he does the obvious. Clearly Avery and Jagr wasn't obvious enough... FIRE RENNEY!

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05-05-2008, 02:38 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
That's unfair to Jagr considering how he was being abused everytime he touched the puck. The Pens were taking massive liberties against Jagr and they didn't care because they knew the Rangers PP wouldn't score. It was the most brilliant strategy and it worked to perfection. The rest of the Rangers lineup did nothing. Game 4 was won by Jagr's line. It was the only line that showed up this series.
Exactly. Jagr had ZERO room on the ice yesterday and I am pretty sure it was the game plan by Pens. It is just common sense and math I think. Last game Jagr had 3 points and was almost everywhere on the ice. So the plan was to stop him even if it leads to PP because they knew that we are not going to score 3 on PP.

Off topic: Before this game i was watching Czech team against Russia. We lost 4:5 but all our goals was in PP with Kaberle and Zidlicky on QB position... It was really nice to watch PP when you have the right people on the blue line.


Last edited by Madik77: 05-05-2008 at 02:39 AM. Reason: add
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05-05-2008, 08:37 AM
  #67
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Great point Madik...

"Jagr had ZERO room on the ice yesterday and I am pretty sure it was the game plan by Pens"

Seems as though the opposing coach did a great job setting up a game plan to stop Jagr...why wasn't the Rangers' coach countering that to get Jagr room? Play more extensively with Gomez. Shift Dubi to play with Prucha and Cally, a trio that had a good deal of success - mix it up - create some space. Just a suggestion.

I think Edge makes a great point - one he's made repeatedly - Renney is an analyst - an X-O guy - he's probably best somewhere in that role and may be the coach immediately prior to this team making some real noise. That's not a knock on him per se, it's just an analysis of him.

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05-05-2008, 09:26 AM
  #68
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I'm pretty sure that Avery/Dubinsky/Jagr line was going cold when Renney split them up. They started out very hot but things stopped working out as nicely after awhile

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05-05-2008, 09:29 AM
  #69
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I'm not sure if it was going cold...

more than the fact that Avery was needed elsewhere and Straka seemed to have trouble getting things going without Jagr.

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05-05-2008, 09:42 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philbo View Post
Problem with the PP is that it's not generated from the point. Way way way to much cycling down low, that's unfortunately JJ's influence.

We need PP shots, finshers down low on the doorstep banging it home, playing w/ more urgency.

agree...we need more than 1 system to be successful.

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05-05-2008, 09:46 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madik77 View Post
Exactly. Jagr had ZERO room on the ice yesterday and I am pretty sure it was the game plan by Pens. It is just common sense and math I think. Last game Jagr had 3 points and was almost everywhere on the ice. So the plan was to stop him even if it leads to PP because they knew that we are not going to score 3 on PP.

Off topic: Before this game i was watching Czech team against Russia. We lost 4:5 but all our goals was in PP with Kaberle and Zidlicky on QB position... It was really nice to watch PP when you have the right people on the blue line.
I was arguing this precise point prior the trade deadline when I suggested we needed a defensive anchor.

International hockey is played on larger surface and the time and space allowed to D to distribute the puck is more generous so one cannot draw parallels to say in works in the WC it will work in the NHL.

But I think we need options and right now we are scoring zero goals on PP and therefore we are scoring zero goals from the point on PP as well.


I have not Sanguinetti play hockey - I admit but if he was that good he would be playing. To expect that this kid will come in and orchestrate the Rangers PP is an illusion. Kaberle has now been in the league for 10 years and we hope our guy will be as good as TK and yet it too TK couple seasons to really unleash his full potential.
and only now I think he is hitting his full stride.

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05-05-2008, 09:53 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
\

I disagree - our main problem is scoring, scoring on PP.
Pens score and we didn't and don't
Yup. Completely agree. If the Rangers are going to take the next step, they need a legit first-line sniper who can get scalding hot on the PP (Malkin).

I wouldn't touch Hossa, and not holdin my breath for Cheraponov to be that guy.

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05-05-2008, 09:59 AM
  #73
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It's funny how everyone bashes Renney for not using those other line combos. Didn't Avery score 7 points in 8 games these playoffs vs. 5 in 10 last year? Didn't Jagr, Dubinsky, & Straka put up 33 points in 10 games vs. 34 last year with Nylander as Center?

Scott Gomez had 11 points. Drury 6.

The problem wasn't the line combos, it was that guys like Shanahan never showed up.
Gomez still ended up with 4 points against the Pens. Drury was playing hurt and still did one heck of a job.
Shanahan didn't show up, Dawes finally showed up to the last game.

Tyutin started playing golf 3 weeks ago and Girardi was covering for him all series. Funny how Girardi had 50 hits in 10 games while Tyutin had only 16. Tyutin was #5 among defensemen in hitting in the regular season. Either Tyutin was hurt and we never heard anything about it, or he just never showed up.
Backman stunk up a storm. Rozsival had a dreadful game 5 and he wasn't all that sharp the whole playoffs. Strudwick did a good enough job. Mara wasn't all that bad either. Staal was a beast the whole way through.

To blame the even strength combos which was averaging 2.3 goals per game (23 goals in 10 games plus an additional 7 on the PP and one on PK) is a little weak of an argument. Most of the time if you score three goals per game you expect to win especially in the playoffs. The defense crapped the bed and Lundqvist made them look a whole lot better than they even were. If you had someone like Dunham in net, the Rangers wouldn't have even been close.

To compare, the Penguins have scored 31 goals in their 9 games. If you want to make it for 10 games then 34.4. They scored 11 powerplay goals in those 9 games (or 12.2 for 10). Therefore we have 20 goals at even strength or 22.2 goals for 10 games. Heck, that's worse than the Rangers. Therefore, by this evidence here, we can say that even strength line combos were not the cause of the Rangers losing.

The Powerplay stinking and the defense stinking were the real reason. So stop blaming Renney's line combinations when the holes in this team were so glaring that you're now just making excuses to bash the guy.


Last edited by WhipNash27: 05-05-2008 at 10:07 AM.
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Old
05-05-2008, 10:11 AM
  #74
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When your forward lines...

are cycling and controlling the puck, the other team doesn't have the puck. Part of the problem was often that part of the game seemed to have been missing. Too often did PITT control the tempo. It seemed to be their game. You can blame defensemen, and rightfully so, but at what point do you blame a coach? Does he only get credit when everyone plays well and a team wins? It's a tough concept to say where to blame a coach and where not to blame a coach. The players need to play, and the coach needs to coach - I think both fell down in this series - and I think Jackson made some really good points in regards to Renney's coaching.

As for Shanny - yeah, one goal in the playoffs - very pathetic and I totally agree - can't blame a coach for that, but he still took his regular PP shift, got worn down on his regular PK shift, although his ES was curtailed a bit in the last game, and perhaps one other.

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Old
05-05-2008, 10:13 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
more than the fact that Avery was needed elsewhere and Straka seemed to have trouble getting things going without Jagr.
I'm pretty sure they cooled off considerably, though I do agree that they should have been left together longer.

I really don't think that was the make it or break it for this team, however.

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