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2008 What Went Wrong Revisted

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Old
05-04-2008, 10:02 PM
  #1
I Am Chariot
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2008 What Went Wrong Revisted

1. Never did aquire that Elite impact D Man

2. Struggled replacing Nylanders chemistry, which led to endless line combinations for 1/2 the season

3. The dismal fall of Malik and to a lesser extent Rosy. This was our top pair last year!!!

4. A continued MIND BOGGLING Bad Powerplay. Who would think a PP that looks so good on paper could really be that bad?

5. Too much of the plan revolving around the 36 year old and 40 year old HOF players. Both had slower years than the year before. Its what usually happens. Shouldnt be a total surprise.

6. Significant injuries in the post season round 2 - Avery, Betts, Drury


?

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05-04-2008, 10:04 PM
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The best way to get better is to take an honest assesment of what went wrong. I'm sure the coaching staff will do this to prepare for the future

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05-04-2008, 10:07 PM
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WhipNash27
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PP was bad

That's the biggest reason for this team's failure.

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05-04-2008, 10:10 PM
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I Am Chariot
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They had a whole season to work on it....the PP wasnt that better last year.

What must be done? Is it a personal issue or a inept plan of execution?

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05-04-2008, 10:15 PM
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Bad PP and in the 2nd round Jagrs line was the only to score until you were down 2-0 going into the 3rd period of Game 5. That's it. Jagr was the best player in the series for both teams problem is Gomez/Drury/Shanny/Dawes all went cold. Jagr had no shots in Game 5 and nobody picked up the slack.

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05-04-2008, 10:16 PM
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1. Significant regression in the production of Shanahan and Jagr. Shanahan looked like he just didn't want to be there anymore during the playoffs. He ran away from hits and coughed up the puck too much, with no contribution on the offensive end. Jagr has not been the same since his shoulder injury. A few games in the playoffs notwithstanding, he is on his way downhill.

2. Uneven play by Avery. He was useless for too many games this season.

3. Lack of further progress by the pair of Girardi and Tjutin. In fact, they were exposed in this years' playoffs as nothing more than a third pair, at best. Tjutin's former physical game is gone, and his offensive game is not far behind.

4. Diminishing value of the 4th line. Absolutely no offensive threat from them whatsoever.

No matter how you slice it, they achieved less this year than last. They will need an upgrade during the offseason in the defense and size on the wings, as well as on the PP.

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Old
05-04-2008, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
They had a whole season to work on it....the PP wasnt that better last year.

What must be done? Is it a personal issue or a inept plan of execution?
imo its execution we pass the puck around the outside to much on the pp we need to put pucks on net stop looking for the perfect play and get it broken up b4 we get a shot

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Old
05-04-2008, 10:17 PM
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Nothing really went wrong. We simply weren't good enough this year. That isn't the players' fault, or the coaching staff's fault, or Sather's fault, we just simply weren't built for a Stanley Cup this year. Could certain players have played better during certain stretches? Sure. Could the coaching staff have done a few things differently? Sure. But ultimately there are 30 teams in the NHL and only one of those are ending their season without any "what could have beens." There was no possible way to get that impact D-man without sacrificing one of Drury or Gomez, or if we wanted to get one at the deadline we would have sacrificed Dubinsky and a 1st rounder. I don't think any of us wanted that. It's all part of the building process, and that's what Sather is finally getting. It may take 4 more years for this team to go the distance, but if that's what it takes then so be it. If we continue getting these 1st and 2nd round exits aka Ottawa Senators for a long streak then sure, I'll be mad, but at this point there is no hurry. The sooner the better, obviously, but there is no rush. We have 2 impact centers signed long term with plenty of studs coming up through the system.

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05-04-2008, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
They had a whole season to work on it....the PP wasnt that better last year.

What must be done? Is it a personal issue or a inept plan of execution?
The powerplay was actually #1 in the league in the playoffs last year at 24.1%.

Don't forget that Nylander, Jagr, and Straka were just tearing it up on the powerplay last year in the playoffs. Heck, Nylander led the team in points. He was playing like a madman.

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05-04-2008, 10:25 PM
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You make some great points (hlundqvist 30), but in a few years, we wont HAVE Jagr, Shanahan, Straka---the veterans who were supposed to make our offense so potent. That is why THIS could have been the year--we had the offense and the youngsters, on paper. We'll keep building, but we'll keep losing the key pieces.

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05-04-2008, 10:26 PM
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- Powerplay
- Coaching
- Not shooting the puck
- Some others I am forgetting

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05-04-2008, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Nothing really went wrong. We simply weren't good enough this year. That isn't the players' fault, or the coaching staff's fault, or Sather's fault, we just simply weren't built for a Stanley Cup this year. Could certain players have played better during certain stretches? Sure. Could the coaching staff have done a few things differently? Sure. But ultimately there are 30 teams in the NHL and only one of those are ending their season without any "what could have beens." There was no possible way to get that impact D-man without sacrificing one of Drury or Gomez, or if we wanted to get one at the deadline we would have sacrificed Dubinsky and a 1st rounder. I don't think any of us wanted that. It's all part of the building process, and that's what Sather is finally getting. It may take 4 more years for this team to go the distance, but if that's what it takes then so be it. If we continue getting these 1st and 2nd round exits aka Ottawa Senators for a long streak then sure, I'll be mad, but at this point there is no hurry. The sooner the better, obviously, but there is no rush. We have 2 impact centers signed long term with plenty of studs coming up through the system.
I agree with you. Can't wait to watch this team next year with Dubinsky, Staal, Dawes and the other youngsters now all having a full season under their belt. I really had fun watching the games this year, even if they were nerve wrecking, and I'm really looking forward to see how much the kids have improved next year.

I also think Lundqvist will have his best season next year.

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Old
05-04-2008, 10:32 PM
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What went wrong:

The coaches somehow not figuring out the Pens ran the same plays with the same diagonal passes every single shift and telling the players to defend accordingly 1-3-1 style instead of their stubborn repeated 3-2 alignment.

Oh, and not ever hitting Crosby or Malkin in the offensive zone. Or pressuring them. Ever. Yeah, give them time and space and play passive reactionary defense. That'll stop super skilled players.

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05-04-2008, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Nothing really went wrong. We simply weren't good enough this year. That isn't the players' fault, or the coaching staff's fault, or Sather's fault, we just simply weren't built for a Stanley Cup this year. Could certain players have played better during certain stretches? Sure. Could the coaching staff have done a few things differently? Sure. But ultimately there are 30 teams in the NHL and only one of those are ending their season without any "what could have beens." There was no possible way to get that impact D-man without sacrificing one of Drury or Gomez, or if we wanted to get one at the deadline we would have sacrificed Dubinsky and a 1st rounder. I don't think any of us wanted that. It's all part of the building process, and that's what Sather is finally getting. It may take 4 more years for this team to go the distance, but if that's what it takes then so be it. If we continue getting these 1st and 2nd round exits aka Ottawa Senators for a long streak then sure, I'll be mad, but at this point there is no hurry. The sooner the better, obviously, but there is no rush. We have 2 impact centers signed long term with plenty of studs coming up through the system.
And I agree too. I think most can be put down to bad luck. If all those chances Straka had, had gone in, then perhaps it wouldn't be the Pens going through now. Sometimes the bounces just dont go your way.

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05-04-2008, 10:33 PM
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You make some great points (hlundqvist 30), but in a few years, we wont HAVE Jagr, Shanahan, Straka---the veterans who were supposed to make our offense so potent. That is why THIS could have been the year--we had the offense and the youngsters, on paper. We'll keep building, but we'll keep losing the key pieces.
But this is exactly my point. Those guys were supposed to top off the incredible offense we were supposed to have. Jagr was very good, but wasn't really the same Jagr (until the playoffs). Straka had his streaks but was invisible a lot. Shanny same. Then think about how well we did. It's because we got contributions from sources not as expected. Dubinsky, Dawes, Callahan, Girardi, etc. I'm sure guys like Straka and Shanahan were good for helping them grow into their roles, but ultimately those were the guys with the talent. If those guys keep contributing, we get some luck on our side with the likes of Anisimov, Cherepanov, Sanguinetti, and some FA acquisitions this team should be mowing through everyone else in no time. The decline of select players is unfortunate, but taking that into consideration when looking at the success of the team this year, and we have a bright future. Our best players this season were Jagr, Gomez, Drury, Avery, Dubinsky, Staal, Dawes, Callahan, Tyutin, Girardi, Lundqvist. Jagr could be gone, and same with Avery, but everyone else should be here for the long haul. That's an incredible core to build from. Few teams are lucky enough to be in the situation we are in right now.

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05-04-2008, 10:35 PM
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And I agree too. I think most can be put down to bad luck. If all those chances Straka had, had gone in, then perhaps it wouldn't be the Pens going through now. Sometimes the bounces just dont go your way.
of course, we all knew straka wouldn't bury those chances. it's just not him.

busts his ass like nobodies business but is not a natural goal scorer.

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05-04-2008, 10:36 PM
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A Rafalski or Campbell would have been perfect, I think. Even if they don't produce, that's a body that occupies the ice for 30 minutes and reduces the ice-time for everyone else.

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05-04-2008, 10:37 PM
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What went wrong?

We overrated this team. Pure and simple. It's funny that when the Rodent said that this team wouldn't win the Cup at the beginning of the season people said he was nuts. A team with as much turnover as this one in the center position will take time to gel. I think he pointed out some fact that showed the every time a team got two new top centers, they never won the cup the first season after the acquisitions. That plus the fact that we have a very young and inexperienced defensive crew. It takes time, next year I think the team will do better especially if Jagr returns.

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05-04-2008, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
But this is exactly my point. Those guys were supposed to top off the incredible offense we were supposed to have. Jagr was very good, but wasn't really the same Jagr (until the playoffs). Straka had his streaks but was invisible a lot. Shanny same. Then think about how well we did. It's because we got contributions from sources not as expected. Dubinsky, Dawes, Callahan, Girardi, etc. I'm sure guys like Straka and Shanahan were good for helping them grow into their roles, but ultimately those were the guys with the talent. If those guys keep contributing, we get some luck on our side with the likes of Anisimov, Cherepanov, Sanguinetti, and some FA acquisitions this team should be mowing through everyone else in no time. The decline of select players is unfortunate, but taking that into consideration when looking at the success of the team this year, and we have a bright future. Our best players this season were Jagr, Gomez, Drury, Avery, Dubinsky, Staal, Dawes, Callahan, Tyutin, Girardi, Lundqvist. Jagr could be gone, and same with Avery, but everyone else should be here for the long haul. That's an incredible core to build from. Few teams are lucky enough to be in the situation we are in right now.
And that is why so many believe that something went wrong--we didn't get the contributions we expected from the veterans to add to the youngster's production. We could've had the great offense, hence, the asking--was this the year? Obviously it wasn't, though, because what happened happened.

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05-04-2008, 10:38 PM
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I think it just comes down to being beaten by a team that took advantage of its opportunities more.

The Rangers could've won this series, but Pittsburgh was the better team. I have to admit that I agreed with Stan Fischler in the postgame show. He talked about those little things and the series being the difference between the fifth seed team and a team that finished higher.

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05-04-2008, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post

3. The dismal fall of Malik and to a lesser extent Rosy. This was our top pair last year!!!
Talk about WHAT WENT RIGHT!

We lost a schmaz in Malik, and saw the rise of our own stud defender. Ending up in the same round as last year with rookies on the first line defense and center positions is quite a haul, I think!

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05-04-2008, 11:00 PM
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It really comes down to special teams. There is no doubt in my mind that this team outplayed the penguins for the majority of the series at even strength. If you look at this team, they should have what it takes to win: a stud goalie, a great mix of old and young. Problem is you start playing down a man, against a lethal offense and there isn't much you can do. Throw that in with an inept pp of your own and a defense whose best player was a rookie and you can start to see where trouble sets in. I think all the hoopla that goes with playing the penguins (ie, whining, diving, crosby/malkin loving press) and the rangers were thinking about more than just playing hockey for the first few games. I hate to say it but its basically what avery was able to do to the devils in the first.

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Old
05-04-2008, 11:17 PM
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I Am Chariot
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post

4. Diminishing value of the 4th line. Absolutely no offensive threat from them whatsoever.
mmmm yep


What if Shanny came back as a 4th liner PK specialist? He is still great on the PK imo, but I agree that his diminished ability to just be a consistant top 6 hurt the team offensively.

Still his leadership qualities are valuable, especially for a primarily young team.

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05-04-2008, 11:23 PM
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Talk about WHAT WENT RIGHT!

We lost a schmaz in Malik, and saw the rise of our own stud defender. Ending up in the same round as last year with rookies on the first line defense and center positions is quite a haul, I think!
I toally agree to relish in the rise of the homegrowns. But surely the plan was for Malik and Rosy to be way better.

Props to Stall he actually did BETTER than expected imo considering the circumstances maybe he takes a dismal year for a Vet to make room for the rise of the future.

The proverbial step back

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05-04-2008, 11:27 PM
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I Am Chariot
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What went wrong?

We overrated this team.
Theres a difference between over rating a team and getting PUMPED for a shot in the playoffs.

Few here seriously over rated the team imo.

The holes were there all season

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