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The Everything "Mats Sundin" Thread

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Old
06-25-2008, 02:48 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
shanny made no one better while he was a ranger then.....

callahan and dawes both raved about drury teaching them little tricks and of course they had to work hard....that is something that is good for them.....

i cant believe people saying such horrible things about drury.....people need to do some research and not just look at the rangers last year
QFT, i think Drury is one of the most influecial people on the Rangers right now. Since Shanny is gone now Drury will take over the leadership role, and I think he will make a Pominville(Callahan) or Vanek(Dawes) on the Rangers

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06-25-2008, 02:48 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
So your saying Drury was more of a liability to Dawes on the offensive side.....what are you smoking man?
not at all. I am saying that Drury isn't this offensive dynamo that people are making him out to be... he is slightly above avg. offensively. And passing wise he really isn't that great at all. Watch games and see how many passes he has that are off target. Same goes w/ his stickhandling. It is rather avg.

i actually do think that Dawes is a better passer, and shooter than Drury. i think he might actually have a higher point total than drury by the end of this season. The only thing that Drury has over Dawes is knowledge and experience. actual skillset though dawes is better.

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06-25-2008, 02:51 PM
  #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
QFT, i think Drury is one of the most influecial people on the Rangers right now. Since Shanny is gone now Drury will take over the leadership role, and I think he will make a Pominville(Callahan) or Vanek(Dawes) on the Rangers
my apologies, i wasnt attempting to scold you...i realize it came off like that, i was more making a general statement.....it just bothers me sometimes when people bash players for what they see on the outside....
does drury score a ton of points?....i think he could if he played with some better players...
does he make players around him better?....absolutely, maybe not through his play, but through his teaching(IMO drury is one of the best coach/players in the league)

i just wish some of the people on tis board saw what buffalo fans saw of him in buffalo.....he is doing the same thing in NY and people hate him.....inexplicable....

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06-25-2008, 02:54 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
not at all. I am saying that Drury isn't this offensive dynamo that people are making him out to be... he is slightly above avg. offensively. And passing wise he really isn't that great at all. Watch games and see how many passes he has that are off target. Same goes w/ his stickhandling. It is rather avg.

i actually do think that Dawes is a better passer, and shooter than Drury. i think he might actually have a higher point total than drury by the end of this season. The only thing that Drury has over Dawes is knowledge and experience. actual skillset though dawes is better.
i will not even comment on that.....we will see after the season if people think the same

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06-25-2008, 02:55 PM
  #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
my apologies, i wasnt attempting to scold you...i realize it came off like that, i was more making a general statement.....it just bothers me sometimes when people bash players for what they see on the outside....
does drury score a ton of points?....i think he could if he played with some better players...
does he make players around him better?....absolutely, maybe not through his play, but through his teaching(IMO drury is one of the best coach/players in the league)

i just wish some of the people on tis board saw what buffalo fans saw of him in buffalo.....he is doing the same thing in NY and people hate him.....inexplicable....
I was agreeing of what you said to Rags225, I've been to many many Sabres games in the past (my brother and sister went to college ther) I've seen Drury teach young players on Buffalo first hand. Thus I am agreeing with every single word you said...eer typed.

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06-25-2008, 02:56 PM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
not at all. I am saying that Drury isn't this offensive dynamo that people are making him out to be... he is slightly above avg. offensively. And passing wise he really isn't that great at all. Watch games and see how many passes he has that are off target. Same goes w/ his stickhandling. It is rather avg.

i actually do think that Dawes is a better passer, and shooter than Drury. i think he might actually have a higher point total than drury by the end of this season. The only thing that Drury has over Dawes is knowledge and experience. actual skillset though dawes is better
.
That was a tad bit silly, won't you say

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06-25-2008, 02:59 PM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
I was agreeing of what you said to Rags225, I've been to many many Sabres games in the past (my brother and sister went to college ther) I've seen Drury teach young players on Buffalo first hand. Thus I am agreeing with every single word you said...eer typed.
i know, i dont know why i quoted your statement....people dont like drury because they expect him to put up 90 points.....IMO, i think he could score 35-40 goals with a playmaker like gomez

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06-25-2008, 02:59 PM
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
my apologies, i wasnt attempting to scold you...i realize it came off like that, i was more making a general statement.....it just bothers me sometimes when people bash players for what they see on the outside....
does drury score a ton of points?....i think he could if he played with some better players...
does he make players around him better?....absolutely, maybe not through his play, but through his teaching(IMO drury is one of the best coach/players in the league)

i just wish some of the people on tis board saw what buffalo fans saw of him in buffalo.....he is doing the same thing in NY and people hate him.....inexplicable....
if he made $7 mil a season in buffalo i'm pretty sure they wouldn't have loved him as much. you have to take salary into this as well. You don't pay $7mil a year for a player to teach. You pay a player $7mil a year to score 80+ pts in a season.

Messier was still a great teacher at the end of his career when he was putting up 40 pts seasons. Do you think he would be worth $7 mil a season just for his teaching.

Fact is he has to live up to his contract which he will never do. his contract is more of a hamper to this team than he can do to make it better. Goal scorers and pt producers demand high salaries. he wastes valuable cap space that we could use to have these types of players. He is a good player being paid as a superstar. therefore he is open to this harsh criticism.

and no i don't think he can score much more than he has last year. His career high was 69 pts.... and that was on some dynamite offensive teams.

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06-25-2008, 03:01 PM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
if he made $7 mil a season in buffalo i'm pretty sure they wouldn't have loved him as much. you have to take salary into this as well. You don't pay $7mil a year for a player to teach. You pay a player $7mil a year to score 80+ pts in a season.

Messier was still a great teacher at the end of his career when he was putting up 40 pts seasons. Do you think he would be worth $7 mil a season just for his teaching.

Fact is he has to live up to his contract which he will never do. his contract is more of a hamper to this team than he can do to make it better. Goal scorers and pt producers demand high salaries. he wastes valuable cap space that we could use to have these types of players. He is a good player being paid as a superstar. therefore he is open to this harsh criticism.

and no i don't think he can score much more than he has last year. His career high was 69 pts.... and that was on some dynamite offensive teams.

if he was making 7 million in buffalo right now he would still be, by far, the fan favorite.....you have to realize he makes the team better...he isnt flashy and doesnt get a lot of credit for what he does, however he gets W's no matter how they are needed and he holds players accountable....IMO, a player who wins is worth 7 million

so then what the hell was shanny's 5 million because he sure as hell couldnt play

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06-25-2008, 03:02 PM
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
That was a tad bit silly, won't you say
why is that silly. Dawes does have a better more accurate shot. Dawes' passes are also more accurate than drury. He is slightly better at stickhandling as well. Drury is a better skater though. therefore his skillset is better.

what sets them apart his Drury has the experience to hone in his hockey sense, more than Dawes. i can easily see dawes putting up as many points as Drury next year, and would be shocked if he didn't get more by the year after.

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06-25-2008, 03:04 PM
  #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
why is that silly. Dawes does have a better more accurate shot. Dawes' passes are also more accurate than drury. He is slightly better at stickhandling as well. Drury is a better skater though. therefore his skillset is better.

what sets them apart his Drury has the experience to hone in his hockey sense, more than Dawes. i can easily see dawes putting up as many points as Drury next year, and would be shocked if he didn't get more by the year after.
Dawes may, may reach Drury's skill level in the future. but right now Drury>>>>>Dawes. I cant believe how much people are underating Drury.

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06-25-2008, 03:04 PM
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
why is that silly. Dawes does have a better more accurate shot. Dawes' passes are also more accurate than drury. He is slightly better at stickhandling as well. Drury is a better skater though. therefore his skillset is better.

what sets them apart his Drury has the experience to hone in his hockey sense, more than Dawes. i can easily see dawes putting up as many points as Drury next year, and would be shocked if he didn't get more by the year after.
If Dawes is better than Drury, than there's your setup man for Drury.

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06-25-2008, 03:05 PM
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
if he made $7 mil a season in buffalo i'm pretty sure they wouldn't have loved him as much. you have to take salary into this as well. You don't pay $7mil a year for a player to teach. You pay a player $7mil a year to score 80+ pts in a season.
You're absolutely right about that. I wouldn't have wanted him for over 5.5. He's a great player, but that's elite money.

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06-25-2008, 03:08 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
i know, i dont know why i quoted your statement....people dont like drury because they expect him to put up 90 points.....IMO, i think he could score 35-40 goals with a playmaker like gomez
right... b/c in his career he scored more than 35 only once. so b/c he is playing w/ gomez he will definately do it... b/c gomez is better than the Forsbergs, Sakics of the NHL. be reasonable. Its like those people who say gomez will easily hit 20 goals next year. he really isnt a 20 goal scorer. Stop overrating Ranger players. Drury is not a 35-40 goal scorer. he is a 25-30 goal scorer. which there is nothing wrong w/. playing on the Rangers w/ gomez isn't going to magically make him a 35-40 goal scorer.

oh and by the way how would he play /w gomez if he is a center like you have him. for him to play on a line w/ gomez we wouldn't we need a say a SUNDIN. or do you think Ani is ready to play 3rd line.

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06-25-2008, 03:09 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
If Dawes is better than Drury, than there's your setup man for Drury.
i would love to see a line of dawes-gomez-drury because i think they all compliment eachother really well

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06-25-2008, 03:10 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
Dawes may, may reach Drury's skill level in the future. but right now Drury>>>>>Dawes. I cant believe how much people are underating Drury.
pure skill Dawes is better.... he is still figuring out how to use it. you have to separate the two.

if they had an accurate shot contest, or an accurate passing contest I would bet money that Dawes would smoke Drury. Dawes is still figuring out the game at the NHL level.

So yeah for now drury is better than Dawes. come by the end of the next year or two he won't be.

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06-25-2008, 03:12 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
If Dawes is better than Drury, than there's your setup man for Drury.
wouldn't mind that at all. but now you need some size on the line to create some room for them to operate. that we don't have. can't have three guys on a line under 6'. Doesn't work that much. I can't really thing of anybody to plug there. Maybe Ani if he is ready?

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06-25-2008, 03:14 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
pure skill Dawes is better.... he is still figuring out how to use it. you have to separate the two.

if they had an accurate shot contest, or an accurate passing contest I would bet money that Dawes would smoke Drury. Dawes is still figuring out the game at the NHL level.

So yeah for now drury is better than Dawes. come by the end of the next year or two he won't be.
i would disagree

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06-25-2008, 03:48 PM
  #444
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When I originally read all the talk of Sundin, I immediately hated it. Right off the bat, two things came to my mind.

1) Here we go again. Adding another overaged veteran to the club.



2) How does signing another center even remotely make sense for this hockey club. The team spent 14 million dollars to have the Drury.Gomez 1-2 punch down the middle. Are they going to bury one of them on the 3rd line now? Not too even mention Brandon Dubinsky!





Yesterday I sat down, and broke it all down at lunch. Here’s what I came up with.



I guess the rumors have some validity. They keep popping up all over the place and it was even speculated he might come over here last season. Top that off with the fact that it makes no sense, I think this one might actually happen…Here’s why. Under the new Salary cap, GM’s have to become really creative. Meaning, there are going to be certain areas where to have to plug in stop-gap’s. With that said, via free agency the wingers available are going to be totally overpaid in this particular class. Supply and demand and the increase in the new cap is definitely going to drive their values through the roof. So, two things will have to happen in order for the Rangers to be able to compete in this years class.



1) Look for players that want to be here, for proximity to their respective homes/families etc.

2) Look for players that might take less salary than they will receive elsewhere to play here, especially players in the twilight of their career, like Sundin.



Over the past week there have been some very interesting rumors involving the Rangers, and their plans for the offseason. Two names have been mentioned by more than one site, and after the NHL Entry draft the rumors really heated up. The two names were Brian Cambell and Mats Sundin.



Cambell to me is a no-brainer. My opinion of him is that he is the premier offensive defenseman in the game today…and maybe the best skater in the league to boot! The Rangers certainly have a need for an offensive defenseman, and this guy fits the bill. The guy would totally boost the power play, and for an offensive defenseman Cambell is also a solid open ice hitter. His physical game IMO is underrated. Anyone remember the hit he threw two seasons ago against Umberger in the playoffs? So, while Cambell might not be the intimidating player that say Orpik is, he isn’t any less physical than the rest of the NY Rangers…and with the exception of maybe Tyutin, he might be the best hitter on the club, again… if he comes here. He also has stated publicly that he wants to play for a northeast team. Apparantly, he wants to be closer to home for something that has to do with his wife’s family which is in the Northeast(that's what I read anyway) I believe in NY. Anyway, he also has the connetion with Chris Drury, who apparently is good friends with Cambell from the Buffalo years.



Mat’s Sundin is now heavily rumored to the Rangers. When I originally saw this, I was taken back some. Why would the Rangers add another center? Why would they add a guy that is 36 years old? Makes no sense right? Then I broke it down a little more, and the in the end I think I know what the Rangers thinking was when they leaked info about bringing him over. In the end, I don’t love it, but…I think this might be a somewhat inexpensive way to put a winning product on the ice for a season or two until the next crop of Rangers are ready to make their way into the NHL. The next crop being Sanguinetti, Cherepanov, Anisimov, Gratchev, and Del Zotto. Sundin is a big boy... 6’5”, 235lbs. At the end of the season last year, Renney was quoted as saying he thinks the team could benefit from having a little more size up front. Pearn was quoted as saying the team needs some veteran leadership on the Blueline, and a PP QB. Based off of those comments, and the Rangers refusal to either draft, or sign a physical blueliner for the system I think this might be what they have in mind.





If indeed it does happen, I think this is what the Rangers will look like next season. I highly doubt that the Rangers would consider bringing him on board if they weren't going to re-sign Jaromir Jagr. If Sundin was to come here, IMO it is specifically to center Jagr. Thinking the two will play the same puck control game that Jagr and Nylander did. The only difference...Sundin is much bigger than Nylander was. I believe he's like 6'5" 230lbs!... and he still posses similar skills that Nylander did, in fact he's probably a better player even at this stage of the game. So, let's take a look at this. If he was to come over here, you now have 2 very important pieces to your top line. The problem is now find a left wing for the duo, and for the Rangers now with no lack of size up front, I think Nigel Dawes might be that guy. Dawes is a great shooter. Imagine how he would do buzzing around the ice with guys like Jagr and Sundin setting the guy up? He could be a cheap alternative to complete the first line. He would have plenty of room out there to get free, and again, his shot is very underrated. I think if given the chance with these two Dawes has his first 30 goal season at the NHL level.



Next is where to put Dubinsky? I keep saying this all along too. Dubinsky, IMO would make an excellent left wing for Gomez. Why? The guy is obviously a big body, and he can bang in the corners, and chase down loose pucks. Plus...he is a solid skater who can keep up with the play with Gomez. With that said, why not give the guy a shot on Scotty's wing. Let them learn each others game, let them create some chemistry. I think with both scenerio's here, you have two players that are so good, that whoever plays the opposite wing can be somewhat interchangeable. Maybe Korpikoski, or Sjostrom? Either way, you certainly add speed there, and both players are also defensively responsible.



Leave the shutdown duties to Drury, and maybe acclimate him to Sjostrom who IMO should be bumped up for the 4th line. Toss Cally on the other side.



Here's the potential lineup



Dawes ($1.1) Sundin ($5.) Jagr ($5.) Total hit $11.

Dubinsky (.63) Gomez (7.3) Korpikoski (.650) Total Hit $8.58

Callahan (.575) Drury (7.) Sjostrom (1.1) Total Hit $8.67

Prucha (1.6) Betts (.615) Orr (.537) Total Hit $2.752



Staal (.827) Cambell (6.50) $7.3

Tyutin (2.844) Girardi (1.55) $4.39

Backman (2.3) Smith (2.15) $4.45



Lundqvist (6.875) $6.875

Valiquette (.750) $.750



Total Salary $54.76



Hollweg, Jamitn, maybe Potter or Sauer can be healthy scratches/call ups and call ups.





Potentially it could work. The lineup lacks the big physical defenseman, but...Jason Smith could provide some leadership, and is certainly more physical than anyone else on the club. With Smith, think of a better version of Strudwick.



In the end, the Rangers keep Jagr happy, and in NY for two more seasons. They add serious PP potential, and a slightly more physical defense than they employed the year before. There is one glaring weakness the team would lack and that is an agitator. In the end thouh, you have to figure out. What is a bigger area of concern? Getting a guy that can get under everyone’s skin, or bolster the PP, and get some size up front without losing speed? I think this is what the Rangers were thinking, and maybe the reason why the signed the kid Jamtin out of Sweden. Supposedly he is the Swedish Sean Avery, and plays a very similar game…but with a much cheaper pricetag.

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06-25-2008, 04:00 PM
  #445
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if the rangers were to sign sundin these are the lines i would make

jagr-sundin-dawes
drury-gomez-korpikoski
sjostrom-dubinsky-callahan
moore/byers-betts-orr

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06-25-2008, 04:01 PM
  #446
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Lion...

I'm sorry, well justified post - but that lineup will not win.

Too many guys playing in positions they are not used to.

Plus, Jagr and Sundin aren't a lock to to sign for 5.0 each. That would be a minor miracle.

Same with Campbell... 6.5? No way. Hes looking at 7 and above with this years FA class. Even if thats the case, you have 6 players making 5.0 and above... thats scary.

The more i think of a team with Sundin and Jagr on the top line the more bile starts to creep up the sides of my esophagus.

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06-25-2008, 04:04 PM
  #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
right... b/c in his career he scored more than 35 only once. so b/c he is playing w/ gomez he will definately do it... b/c gomez is better than the Forsbergs, Sakics of the NHL. be reasonable. Its like those people who say gomez will easily hit 20 goals next year. he really isnt a 20 goal scorer. Stop overrating Ranger players. Drury is not a 35-40 goal scorer. he is a 25-30 goal scorer. which there is nothing wrong w/. playing on the Rangers w/ gomez isn't going to magically make him a 35-40 goal scorer.

oh and by the way how would he play /w gomez if he is a center like you have him. for him to play on a line w/ gomez we wouldn't we need a say a SUNDIN. or do you think Ani is ready to play 3rd line.
do you know when he played with those guys?....right after he came out of college....but hey every young player should be able to get a spot next to them and produce 35-40 goals

and if sundin is signed then he could or if anisimov is ready he could...there are more scenarios but i wont get into them

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06-25-2008, 04:11 PM
  #448
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I'll get through the post later, but...

your numbers are off, Lion. Sjostrom will not cost $1.1MM. Jagr will cost more than $5MM as will Jagr. If those two do cost $5MM, I'd sign them both tomorrow and worry about their respective age later. I actually don't mind the lineup, but move around the players. If a centerman is going to move to wing, I'd guess it would be Drury.

Part of my aprehension regarding signing a guy like Sundin, besides his age and the cost to sign him, is that this team should be good to go at center with Gomez/Drury/Dubi and Betts, and I'd prefer to build with better wingers as opposed to centermen. They need guys on the wing who can score, as well as size on the wing.

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06-25-2008, 04:23 PM
  #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
That perfectly fits my post on the previous page about why we won't sign Sundin if Jagr comes back. No way Gomer plays third line minutes, even if it's lines 2b/1c minutes.
Don't get me wrong -- but whats pretty interesting is that it according to plenty of posters is a "bad thing" that Gomez gets 3rd line minutes.

Whats the worst possible scenario, Dion Phaneuf as a 6th D and Joe Thornton as our 4th line center???



You can certainly twist these things. I am actually not convinced that I don't agree with you, but when you think about it, is it so bad if Gomez only is our 3rd line center?

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06-25-2008, 05:02 PM
  #450
bubba5
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Keep Sundin Away! We got rid of the retirement community! Get a winger for Gomez, keep Jagr on the second line with dubby, Drury centering the third and away we go!!!!!

I dont care that Sundin had 78 points on a bad team, he will be a year older and slower.

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