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Jagr Wants to Play For the Rangers - per Newsday

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Old
05-13-2008, 03:43 PM
  #201
Fletch
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trx..

personally, what I'm suggesting is that the Rangers do not currently have the depth of top six players to replace guys like Jagr, Straka, Shanny, and possibly Avery and that Drury is a complementary player and Gomez isn't the guy you want leading your team. Building around them is fine - and you start with who?

I personally hate the idea of a marquee name, but without one, this team takes a couple steps back next season. And unfortunately, with contracts of size given to Drury, Gomez and Lundqvist already, some flexibility is lost (plus $1.7MM in dead cap space this coming season, which sucks). But, my issue is this team had been built to have that marquee name (Jagr, for starters) and while this team waits for youth to be served, on the forward side, there aren't a lot of guys to really step up so this team does need to look on the outside, and personally, I'm not sure how this team will look. Sather built a bridge in Jagr and others. It seems to have been about a 3 year bridge because those guys seem to be running out of steam. The kids were supposed to develop. To an extent, they did, but again, I'm not sure how many top six guys there are in them. And personally, I haven't gone through the UFA scenarios to see what actually makes sense. Any help from HFD I'm thinking fourth line, maybe third line. And further, I'm not sure exactly what the Rangers can afford. Sather may be able to pull something off here, but moving beyond Jagr may be easier said than done.

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05-13-2008, 03:43 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
Didn't get your point.
What is worse?
a)to have Rolston for two years and Ryder for 3-4 years
or
b)to have Jagr for 1-2 years

And only thing we know for sure, that Jagr wants to play for Rangers.
What makes you sure that Slats would be able to sign Ryder or Rolston?
Point being that you can't compare this seasons Sabres to last seasons Sabres because they lost 2 key players via free agency, and another at the deadline. The Sabres team that knocked us out of the playoffs last season was a stellar team, this year's squad has no bearing on that fact.

No way anyone is going to sign Rolston for more than 3 years. That being said, Ryder + Rolston for 3 years > Jagr 1-2 years.

People keep saying "Oh, Jagr lead us to the playoffs 3 years in a row." But what did we accomplish? Anything less than a Stanley Cup can only be viewed as one thing: Changes have to be made. Now if you look at the last 3 seasons, there are a few constants. 1) Lundqvist. I think its safe to assume we don't need changes there. 2) Lack of offensive capabilities on the blue line. Sure Rozy had a good year, but he's fallen off steadily ever since. 3) Jaromir Jagr as the centerpiece of this team.

Looking at that, everyone can agree that our blue line needs help. How much help is obviously open to interpretation. The Gomez and Drury signings were obviously moves to the future. How much longer do you want to keep Jagr around and hope that he can throw the team over his shoulder and carry us to the cup? He isn't that kind of player anymore.

By signing Jagr, you automatically commit even MORE cap to sign someone to play the other wing with him and Dubi. Who exactly will go there? Straka? Hell fricking no. Rolston? Doesn't play Jagr's game. Ryder? Doesn't play Jagr's game. The ONLY guy I could think of would be Huselius. I was high on him originally, but the more I think about it, the less fond of him I become. He doesn't play the North-South game either, but at least he doesn't come with the superstar baggage like Jagr did. Huselius doesn't scream "build a team around me" like Jagr does.

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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
personally, what I'm suggesting is that the Rangers do not currently have the depth of top six players to replace guys like Jagr, Straka, Shanny, and possibly Avery and that Drury is a complementary player and Gomez isn't the guy you want leading your team. Building around them is fine - and you start with who?

I personally hate the idea of a marquee name, but without one, this team takes a couple steps back next season. And unfortunately, with contracts of size given to Drury, Gomez and Lundqvist already, some flexibility is lost (plus $1.7MM in dead cap space this coming season, which sucks). But, my issue is this team had been built to have that marquee name (Jagr, for starters) and while this team waits for youth to be served, on the forward side, there aren't a lot of guys to really step up so this team does need to look on the outside, and personally, I'm not sure how this team will look. Sather built a bridge in Jagr and others. It seems to have been about a 3 year bridge because those guys seem to be running out of steam. The kids were supposed to develop. To an extent, they did, but again, I'm not sure how many top six guys there are in them. And personally, I haven't gone through the UFA scenarios to see what actually makes sense. Any help from HFD I'm thinking fourth line, maybe third line. And further, I'm not sure exactly what the Rangers can afford. Sather may be able to pull something off here, but moving beyond Jagr may be easier said than done.
I can understand that. However, Jagr isn't a stop-gap. You bring Jagr back and thats two more years you have to wait before you start moving to a new playing style. Two more years before you really start to take advantage of the speed we have with virtually every other forward.

Whats the point of making the playoffs to get knocked out in the second round? I'd much rather finish in the basement and be confident that our team will be better next year, than sit around and watch the same team try to squeak out of the 2nd round for two more years.

It's true, we have a lot of 3rd and 4th liners in our prospect pool. But how many teams DONT have that in theirs? How many other teams are getting older or are rebuilding and looking to move, or have cap issues that are hindering them from signing some of their youth? Look at Anaheim for example. If they have Neidermayer and Selanne come back next season, they're going to have a very hard time signing Perry. I could very well see a lot of Toronto's players on the block over the summer as well.

Not signing Jagr doesn't translate immediately to a team full of rookies next season. There are options via FA or trade that fill the holes.


Last edited by Trxjw: 05-13-2008 at 03:55 PM.
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05-13-2008, 03:47 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
Seems like a great plan to miss the playoffs...like Buffalo did this season.
Buffalo missed the playoffs this season because their management was too incompetent to retain the backbone of their team. I'm gonna go out on a limb and posture that Slats isn't that stupid/cheap.

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05-13-2008, 04:03 PM
  #204
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Trx...

as mentioned, I'm not advocating going out and locking up Jagr. I am saying that his departure creates a bigger hole than many think and I'm still looking for that lineup proposal for next season that I can put up to this season and say either there's an improvement, or it's going to be a rough ride but that's the right way to go. I understand that his departure doens't mean a bunch of rookies playing and that there aren't UFAs/RFAs out there, but again, what will this team look like without Jagr, and I assume Shanny and Straka too (i.e., who comes in) and do you go into July 1 hoping to get a couple UFAs and risk coming away empty and essentially overpaying for an outsider because you're afraid of being a little naked on the wing instead of retaining a current top 6 guy?

I haven't come up with an answer myself, but I think what many are suggesting is this team not resign three top six forwards (Straka, Jagr and Shanny). Say what you want about all of them, but the current NHL forwards (let's call them Dawes and Callahan) don't really match up to those three. So outside help is needed - be it one or two forwards (and we're talking top 6). That's tough to swallow. Again, I think it highlights the lack of depth that has been built on this team over the last several years in terms of youth. We got excited at times over a few, but this team still was carried to a great extent by certain vets and I'm not sure fans are ready to possibly take a step back (again, it's impossible to tell woh the Rangers will actually pick up, but I assume there will be competition for guys the Rangers want and they aren't in a position to overpay them to come here).

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05-13-2008, 04:07 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
True, but I think that's slightly misleading in a way. We essentially had a team that was comprised of inexperienced youth, and aging veterans. The only players that really fall into the median category are Drury and Gomez (and Rozsival, but he's garbage). Those are the guys you need to begin to build around, and that process needs to start now. Jagr lead our team in goals, sure, but we also produced the 2nd least amount of goals in the league. It's hard to justify him "leading the team" in any category, when our team underachieved across the board for the most part. It's like being the least guilty guy in prison.

Now the question becomes, 'Who can we get to replace him?' Well I think that's looking at it the wrong way. We have Drury and Gomez, who are more than capable of leading the team if Jagr is gone, so the issue of leadership is solved from within. That basically leaves you with point production. Now if you're going to try and replace 25 goals, there are enough options via free agency (Rolston, Ryder or Huselius) or RFA/Trade (Perry, Cole, etc) who can easily replace that kind of production. Not to mention, the money you save can go towards signing guys we want to keep, or signing guys that can fill holes in our lineup. I.E., the 6 mil we save by letting Jagr go could sign Ryder AND Liles more than likely.

Would I like to have a marquee name on our roster? Of course. But it's been proven that you can win even without that player. It's pretty clear that Renney is going to be favoring a defensive strategy while he's here. Now if you want to generate offense from that type of game, you need to be a puck possession / transition team. You need to be able to dig the puck out of your own end or generate turnovers in the neutral zone and push the other team back on it's heels. Unfortunately, Jagr doesn't fit into that mold. I can definitely see this team looking like Detroit in a year or two. Can you imagine Detroit with Lundqvist between the pipes? Wow.

Now the good news is, we have a core of players who have the speed to play that kind of game. What we're missing is some size, a puck moving / PP QB d-man and a guy who can throw some big hits. On the Detroit note, I'd love to see us throw a long term deal at Brad Stuart this summer. He's a high energy, big hitting d-man with the ability to move the puck.

I think Jagr's style of play is fading out. I think this team is becoming a place where Hall of Famer's come to retire. Thats not the kind of organization we should be. I want to be pumped up for a new direction in September, not waiting around to see if Jagr can get it together.
you sir.....have changed my mind completely....i have been favoring bringing jagr back, however, i now believe this team can move on....thank you for such an enlightening post

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05-13-2008, 04:38 PM
  #206
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
as mentioned, I'm not advocating going out and locking up Jagr. I am saying that his departure creates a bigger hole than many think and I'm still looking for that lineup proposal for next season that I can put up to this season and say either there's an improvement, or it's going to be a rough ride but that's the right way to go. I understand that his departure doens't mean a bunch of rookies playing and that there aren't UFAs/RFAs out there, but again, what will this team look like without Jagr, and I assume Shanny and Straka too (i.e., who comes in) and do you go into July 1 hoping to get a couple UFAs and risk coming away empty and essentially overpaying for an outsider because you're afraid of being a little naked on the wing instead of retaining a current top 6 guy?

I haven't come up with an answer myself, but I think what many are suggesting is this team not resign three top six forwards (Straka, Jagr and Shanny). Say what you want about all of them, but the current NHL forwards (let's call them Dawes and Callahan) don't really match up to those three. So outside help is needed - be it one or two forwards (and we're talking top 6). That's tough to swallow. Again, I think it highlights the lack of depth that has been built on this team over the last several years in terms of youth. We got excited at times over a few, but this team still was carried to a great extent by certain vets and I'm not sure fans are ready to possibly take a step back (again, it's impossible to tell woh the Rangers will actually pick up, but I assume there will be competition for guys the Rangers want and they aren't in a position to overpay them to come here).
I think that's where we're both at a slight disagreement. I don't feel Jagr is as vital to this team as many people think. I'm not saying he isn't important, he is certainly, but I feel a lot of people are blinded by the hole he leaves not in his contributions, but on the roster sheet. If you take our lineup from this season, and subtract all the UFA's, it looks like:

___ - Dubi - ___
___ - Gomez - Dawes
Callahan - Drury - Prucha
Sjostrom - Betts - Orr
Hollweg

Staal - ___
Tyutin - Girardi
Backman - ____
____

Hank
____

Thats 7 holes to fill. That's a frightening thought for sure. I think seeing that chart, and not seeing a big name on the first line is scary for a lot of people, and I can't blame them really.

However, inserting Jagr into that lineup does, or doesn't do, a few things. For one, it doesn't make me feel comfortable with the direction of the team. Which obviously isn't an issue for anything other than my own opinion. However, those gaps go from wide open possibilities to 1) What can we afford with 6 mil in cap gone now that we've signed Jagr, and 2) Who do we get to play on Jagr's opposite wing.

I'm with you regarding whether or not fans are ready to step back. But honestly, I think 3 years of early round knock outs in the playoffs signals to many people that we need a change.

I think with one key signing from the FA pool on offense, and two on defense is a good starting point. My choices as of right now would be Ryder, Liles and one of Orpik/Stuart. I think that's entirely doable for Sather as he has the benefit of being in one of the larger markets in the league and he has the cap space to do it with a lot of players leaving.

Those 3 signings, plus resigning Avery and Vally, narrows you down to 2 holes to fill.

Ryder - Gomez - Dawes/Avery
Dawes/Avery - Dubi - ___
Callahan - Drury - Prucha
Sjostrom - Betts - Orr
Hollweg

Staal - Liles
Tyutin - Girardi
Backman - Stuart/Orpik
____

Hank
Vally

Mind you those aren't necessarily the 2nd/3rd lines I'd put together, but you get the idea. Those two holes could easily be filled by Korpikoski and Potter (or Baranka depending on what his Russian contract looks like). Or, you make some trades for players we're lacking, like a power forward such as Cole or Perry. The lineup would change a little, but you start building a team that works for the future. Does it make the Cup finals next year? Eh, maybe not, but I don't think you're any worse off than you were this year. If anything, you're much better. And much younger.

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05-13-2008, 04:43 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I think that's where we're both at a slight disagreement. I don't feel Jagr is as vital to this team as many people think. I'm not saying he isn't important, he is certainly, but I feel a lot of people are blinded by the hole he leaves not in his contributions, but on the roster sheet. If you take our lineup from this season, and subtract all the UFA's, it looks like:

___ - Dubi - ___
___ - Gomez - Dawes
Callahan - Drury - Prucha
Sjostrom - Betts - Orr
Hollweg

Staal - ___
Tyutin - Girardi
Backman - ____
____

Hank
____

Thats 7 holes to fill. That's a frightening thought for sure. I think seeing that chart, and not seeing a big name on the first line is scary for a lot of people, and I can't blame them really.

However, inserting Jagr into that lineup does, or doesn't do, a few things. For one, it doesn't make me feel comfortable with the direction of the team. Which obviously isn't an issue for anything other than my own opinion. However, those gaps go from wide open possibilities to 1) What can we afford with 6 mil in cap gone now that we've signed Jagr, and 2) Who do we get to play on Jagr's opposite wing.

I'm with you regarding whether or not fans are ready to step back. But honestly, I think 3 years of early round knock outs in the playoffs signals to many people that we need a change.

I think with one key signing from the FA pool on offense, and two on defense is a good starting point. My choices as of right now would be Ryder, Liles and one of Orpik/Stuart. I think that's entirely doable for Sather as he has the benefit of being in one of the larger markets in the league and he has the cap space to do it with a lot of players leaving.

Those 3 signings, plus resigning Avery and Vally, narrows you down to 2 holes to fill.

Ryder - Gomez - Dawes/Avery
Dawes/Avery - Dubi - ___
Callahan - Drury - Prucha
Sjostrom - Betts - Orr
Hollweg

Staal - Liles
Tyutin - Girardi
Backman - Stuart/Orpik
____

Hank
Vally

Mind you those aren't necessarily the 2nd/3rd lines I'd put together, but you get the idea. Those two holes could easily be filled by Korpikoski and Potter (or Baranka depending on what his Russian contract looks like). Or, you make some trades for players we're lacking, like a power forward such as Cole or Perry. The lineup would change a little, but you start building a team that works for the future. Does it make the Cup finals next year? Eh, maybe not, but I don't think you're any worse off than you were this year. If anything, you're much better. And much younger.
Taveres here we come.

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05-13-2008, 04:45 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I think that's where we're both at a slight disagreement. I don't feel Jagr is as vital to this team as many people think. I'm not saying he isn't important, he is certainly, but I feel a lot of people are blinded by the hole he leaves not in his contributions, but on the roster sheet. If you take our lineup from this season, and subtract all the UFA's, it looks like:

___ - Dubi - ___
___ - Gomez - Dawes
Callahan - Drury - Prucha
Sjostrom - Betts - Orr
Hollweg

Staal - ___
Tyutin - Girardi
Backman - ____
____

Hank
____

Thats 7 holes to fill. That's a frightening thought for sure. I think seeing that chart, and not seeing a big name on the first line is scary for a lot of people, and I can't blame them really.

However, inserting Jagr into that lineup does, or doesn't do, a few things. For one, it doesn't make me feel comfortable with the direction of the team. Which obviously isn't an issue for anything other than my own opinion. However, those gaps go from wide open possibilities to 1) What can we afford with 6 mil in cap gone now that we've signed Jagr, and 2) Who do we get to play on Jagr's opposite wing.

I'm with you regarding whether or not fans are ready to step back. But honestly, I think 3 years of early round knock outs in the playoffs signals to many people that we need a change.

I think with one key signing from the FA pool on offense, and two on defense is a good starting point. My choices as of right now would be Ryder, Liles and one of Orpik/Stuart. I think that's entirely doable for Sather as he has the benefit of being in one of the larger markets in the league and he has the cap space to do it with a lot of players leaving.

Those 3 signings, plus resigning Avery and Vally, narrows you down to 2 holes to fill.

Ryder - Gomez - Dawes/Avery
Dawes/Avery - Dubi - ___
Callahan - Drury - Prucha
Sjostrom - Betts - Orr
Hollweg

Staal - Liles
Tyutin - Girardi
Backman - Stuart/Orpik
____

Hank
Vally

Mind you those aren't necessarily the 2nd/3rd lines I'd put together, but you get the idea. Those two holes could easily be filled by Korpikoski and Potter (or Baranka depending on what his Russian contract looks like). Or, you make some trades for players we're lacking, like a power forward such as Cole or Perry. The lineup would change a little, but you start building a team that works for the future. Does it make the Cup finals next year? Eh, maybe not, but I don't think you're any worse off than you were this year. If anything, you're much better. And much younger.
the second rsoter you put up i like, except i would like the rangers to trade prucha, which leaves another hole....unfortunatley i really wont like it if the rangers sign two of the free agent wingers...i see them as all overrated because the pickings are so thin and they will all be overpaid.....i would love to trade for perry, suter, bowmeester, pitkanen etc. except the rangers dont have any real pieces of value that are on the table....unless sather can pull off a great deal or a rip-off of another team, i dont see a trade happening

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05-13-2008, 04:52 PM
  #209
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Taveres here we come.
Hey if you think thats a horrible lineup thats fine. But you'd be hard pressed to convince me that we're much worse than we were this year. I think the defense alone is much better than what we had this year.

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05-13-2008, 04:57 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Hey if you think thats a horrible lineup thats fine. But you'd be hard pressed to convince me that we're much worse than we were this year. I think the defense alone is much better than what we had this year.
defense yes it is much better... but we wouldnt score more than a goal per game w/ that lineup.

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05-13-2008, 04:58 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Taveres here we come.
No way. A full season for Dawes and Callahan. Dubinsky with a full season under his belt. If you don't feel that Ryder reverts to his 30 goal status you would be hard pressed to tell me he would not pot 20-25 playing with Gomez and playing a full season.

Want to swap out Ryder for Rolston? Fine with me.

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05-13-2008, 05:00 PM
  #212
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i like that line-up.....and if it doesnt work out, the team gets experience and if we get tavares.....fine by me

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05-13-2008, 06:34 PM
  #213
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That is a bit scary...

for me, I think those kids' successes had a bit to do with the fact that guys like Shanny, Straka and Jagr were there to shield them from the attention. Now you're putting Dawes on a top line - a lot different than what he's used to. Prucha's back in the lineup and with Cally and Drury again - a trio that didn't play well together last season. We're hoping that Ryder bounces back, which is a possibility, so I'd give that one to you, but there's still a hole on the second line and this assumes Dubi improves and doesn't go into the sophomore slump. The defense is better, but in the end will depend a lot of Henke, I'm sure. If other teams in the division improve I don't see that lineup doing much. Personally, I don't think the team would look better than this season - I'm just skeptical of certain guys stepping up and producing next season without guys like Jagr, Straka and Shanny [and Rozsival], who accounted for 75 goals, or 35% of the Rangers' total goals scored (this is goals scored).

Again, this highlights the lack of depth this team really has in terms of youth and we're really about 6 years in witih Sather (since your lineup includes what looks to be four UFAs and a player who was benched towards the end of last season (Prucha)). There's still some guys we're holding out hope for, but they seem to be 1+ years away from the NHL.

Again, I personally do not have any solutions and unfortunately nobody's really right or wrong because what we say isn't going to be exactly what's going to be done; all we can do is analyze the moves Sather makes in the next month or so, how he drafts, the trades he does and the UFAs he gets early and take it from there. Signing Jagr, in my mind, can make some sense. Having a guy like him can still help groom a kid and may not be bad for Dubi if you care at all about continuity and his development. It's really tough for us to sit here and understand the real impact Jagr being on the ice has on someone - be it a linemate or a guy who's on the second line not having to face the competition Jagr's up against because the focus is on him.

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05-13-2008, 06:51 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
for me, I think those kids' successes had a bit to do with the fact that guys like Shanny, Straka and Jagr were there to shield them from the attention. Now you're putting Dawes on a top line - a lot different than what he's used to. Prucha's back in the lineup and with Cally and Drury again - a trio that didn't play well together last season. We're hoping that Ryder bounces back, which is a possibility, so I'd give that one to you, but there's still a hole on the second line and this assumes Dubi improves and doesn't go into the sophomore slump. The defense is better, but in the end will depend a lot of Henke, I'm sure. If other teams in the division improve I don't see that lineup doing much. Personally, I don't think the team would look better than this season - I'm just skeptical of certain guys stepping up and producing next season without guys like Jagr, Straka and Shanny [and Rozsival], who accounted for 75 goals, or 35% of the Rangers' total goals scored (this is goals scored).

Again, this highlights the lack of depth this team really has in terms of youth and we're really about 6 years in witih Sather (since your lineup includes what looks to be four UFAs and a player who was benched towards the end of last season (Prucha)). There's still some guys we're holding out hope for, but they seem to be 1+ years away from the NHL.

Again, I personally do not have any solutions and unfortunately nobody's really right or wrong because what we say isn't going to be exactly what's going to be done; all we can do is analyze the moves Sather makes in the next month or so, how he drafts, the trades he does and the UFAs he gets early and take it from there. Signing Jagr, in my mind, can make some sense. Having a guy like him can still help groom a kid and may not be bad for Dubi if you care at all about continuity and his development. It's really tough for us to sit here and understand the real impact Jagr being on the ice has on someone - be it a linemate or a guy who's on the second line not having to face the competition Jagr's up against because the focus is on him.
Yeah Fletch, but you're relying on the kids' success with or without Jags. I mean if Jaromir comes back at last year's performance level and Dubi, Dawes & Callahan don't continue to progress as we all hope, then we're not going anywhere but #15 or so in the draft again next year anyway.

I have been in favor of re-signing Jags only if he comes without his entourage. But the more I read Trxjw's logic, the more I'm getting comfy with letting him go regardless of whether or not he's willing to play without Straka/Rozsi/Malik.


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05-13-2008, 08:19 PM
  #215
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Trxjw and I are on the exact same page here. He just states it better

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05-13-2008, 09:03 PM
  #216
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Brf..

I'm not sure I understand this statement: "...but you're relying on the kids' success with or without Jags". I can answer that a couple ways, but still don't understand. First, having the vets around contributed to the success of the kids. Second, someone needs to replcae the vets' production which represented 1/3 of the goal scoring, but really accounted for a bit more. That, as suggested, will be made up from outsiders - call them Ryder, Malone or Rolston - take your pick - plus others since there are a couple top six spots to fill quite possibly. So one question would be how do they fit in and what may their impact be, and how does that affect the youth, some of whom have less than 100 NHL games of experience, and is there a benefit bringing back a quantity somewhat known as opposed to a complete stranger.

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05-13-2008, 11:56 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I'm not sure I understand this statement: "...but you're relying on the kids' success with or without Jags". I can answer that a couple ways, but still don't understand. First, having the vets around contributed to the success of the kids. Second, someone needs to replcae the vets' production which represented 1/3 of the goal scoring, but really accounted for a bit more. That, as suggested, will be made up from outsiders - call them Ryder, Malone or Rolston - take your pick - plus others since there are a couple top six spots to fill quite possibly. So one question would be how do they fit in and what may their impact be, and how does that affect the youth, some of whom have less than 100 NHL games of experience, and is there a benefit bringing back a quantity somewhat known as opposed to a complete stranger.
Again Fletch, I see where you're coming from. My only counter to what you're saying is this: The vets have to leave sometime. Sure there's a lot of 'if' going on in this whole scenario. But you have to look at it both ways. Signing Jagr, Straka and Shanny back doesn't necessarily mean they're going to contribute as much as they did this season.

This team clearly needs a change. What we've been doing so far has yet to get us higher than the 2nd round. Like I said before, I'd rather see the team start making moves to compliment the players we're going to have for the next 5 years, not the ones that will be gone in two.

As for the lines, I mentioned they weren't organized the way I wanted to, but my post was lengthy enough so I left them alone. The moves I'd make hinge too much on what other teams will be doing over the summer. The player I'd really love to trade for is Corey Perry. However, I think in order to get him, we're going to have to move Dubinsky, which is something I'm on the fence about, and I'm sure will outrage a lot of folks on this board.

I'd really like to see Anisimov moved up to play wing next season. Giving him even a half season of NHL experience would allow the team to possibly move Dubinsky in a trade, or provide some other teams with a view of what AA is capable of at the NHL level and increase his value. It's very hard to give up Dubi, but at some point, one of our extra centers is going to have to be moved, and until I see AA get some NHL time, Dubi simply has more value to other teams.

I'd like to move Prucha, but unless we package him with someone else or a pick, we aren't going to get much in return.

In an ideal world, my lineup looks like this at the start of the season:

Sign: Ryder, Liles and Stuart
Resign: Vally and Avery
Trades: Perry for Dawes, Callahan, 1st in 08 (probably a little short here)
Torres for Prucha + 4th in 08


Avery (3) - Gomez (7.357) - Ryder (3.5) 13.85
Anisimov (850k) - Drury (7.05) - Perry (4) 11.9
Korpikoski (1.02) - Dubi (633k) - Torres (2.25) 3.9
Byers (608k) - Betts (615k) - Sjostrom / Orr (1.3 combined) 2.5
Offense: 32.15

Staal (826k) - Liles (3.1) 3.93
Girardi (1.5) - Tyutin (2.7?) 4.2
Backman (2.3) - Stuart (3.7) 6.0
Potter/Baranka (say 500k)
Defense: 14.63

Lundqvist (6.85)
Vally (800k)
Goalies: 7.65

Total: 54.43 mil

Thats being a little generous with Avery as well as Ryder, IMO. So it sneaks us just inside 56mil with the 1.5 in dead cap we have.

In my opinion, we improve across the board. We gain some grit and skill, but don't lose any speed. We give up Callahan and Dawes, but IMO they're just too small to really start to deliver on their potential.

I've been logical all day, I felt like going a little off the grid with all that.

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05-14-2008, 01:29 AM
  #218
NYR Viper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Again Fletch, I see where you're coming from. My only counter to what you're saying is this: The vets have to leave sometime. Sure there's a lot of 'if' going on in this whole scenario. But you have to look at it both ways. Signing Jagr, Straka and Shanny back doesn't necessarily mean they're going to contribute as much as they did this season.

This team clearly needs a change. What we've been doing so far has yet to get us higher than the 2nd round. Like I said before, I'd rather see the team start making moves to compliment the players we're going to have for the next 5 years, not the ones that will be gone in two.

As for the lines, I mentioned they weren't organized the way I wanted to, but my post was lengthy enough so I left them alone. The moves I'd make hinge too much on what other teams will be doing over the summer. The player I'd really love to trade for is Corey Perry. However, I think in order to get him, we're going to have to move Dubinsky, which is something I'm on the fence about, and I'm sure will outrage a lot of folks on this board.

I'd really like to see Anisimov moved up to play wing next season. Giving him even a half season of NHL experience would allow the team to possibly move Dubinsky in a trade, or provide some other teams with a view of what AA is capable of at the NHL level and increase his value. It's very hard to give up Dubi, but at some point, one of our extra centers is going to have to be moved, and until I see AA get some NHL time, Dubi simply has more value to other teams.

I'd like to move Prucha, but unless we package him with someone else or a pick, we aren't going to get much in return.

In an ideal world, my lineup looks like this at the start of the season:

Sign: Ryder, Liles and Stuart
Resign: Vally and Avery
Trades: Perry for Dawes, Callahan, 1st in 08 (probably a little short here)
Torres for Prucha + 4th in 08


Avery (3) - Gomez (7.357) - Ryder (3.5) 13.85
Anisimov (850k) - Drury (7.05) - Perry (4) 11.9
Korpikoski (1.02) - Dubi (633k) - Torres (2.25) 3.9
Byers (608k) - Betts (615k) - Sjostrom / Orr (1.3 combined) 2.5
Offense: 32.15

Staal (826k) - Liles (3.1) 3.93
Girardi (1.5) - Tyutin (2.7?) 4.2
Backman (2.3) - Stuart (3.7) 6.0
Potter/Baranka (say 500k)
Defense: 14.63

Lundqvist (6.85)
Vally (800k)
Goalies: 7.65

Total: 54.43 mil

Thats being a little generous with Avery as well as Ryder, IMO. So it sneaks us just inside 56mil with the 1.5 in dead cap we have.

In my opinion, we improve across the board. We gain some grit and skill, but don't lose any speed. We give up Callahan and Dawes, but IMO they're just too small to really start to deliver on their potential.

I've been logical all day, I felt like going a little off the grid with all that.
thats a lot of new faces....i like it, and i like the trades made....im sure the rangers could add something like bourret or sauer to the perry deal......overall i like all the moves although i would rather attempt another trade for suter, pitkanen, or bowmeester instead of signing liles.....

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Old
05-14-2008, 01:51 AM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
is that he had less room out there than in past years. He played a lot early on with Dubi and Hossa. Dubi was a newbie and wasn't what Jagr was used to (a centerman who skates with the puck more than Dubi). Hossa was a zero. It was pretty easy to defend against this line: gang up on Jagr and and you'll succeed.
He had less room, and couldn't adjust to new centers.

This team cannot afford to be built around a player that can't adjust to a new style that's inevitably going to take over.

Quote:
Jagr's PP game was off - why was that? Part of it was Jagr, part of it is, and I'll say this for the 50th time, Dubi didn't belong on the first PP with Jagr. The PP was stationary. It didn't move around like it did when Nylander was here. Jagr's production suffered.
The power play has been somewhat stationary since Jagr came here.

The difference was in 06, Jagr could shoot the puck. After the shoulder injury, he just hasn't been the same with his shot. It's like he's playing one twitch away from ruining that shoulder for the rest of his life... why even play at that point?

Quote:
Of course it wasn't only the PP game that suffered, but it was the ES game too - and again, I'm still not convinced Dubi was the right centerman for Jagr this season. While at times it looked real good, the production wasn't really there. Dubi just doesn't skate enough with the puck in the zone. And that's not a knock on Dubi - I actually liked the way Dubi/Prucha and Cally played together - but that's a different game.
And Jagr doesn't skate enough in general. He's lost his speed. He's losing his strength. Due to those two factors, he looked very disinterested at times, and that's not someone I want playing on my team, regardless of who he is.

Everyone wants this guy as a stop-gap solution. If he is signed, and he falters, I don't want to hear anyone that wanted him signed calling for his head in December/January.

Quote:
Of course, Jagr is also to blame for his own lack of production - he really can't handle the grind of an 82 game schedule like he used to. He can still play and be very productive, but he's not going to be the Jagr of past seasons. He's basically amditted this - saying he can't play an entire season giving it his all and have something left for the playoffs - this is where a coach needs to decide the ice time Jagr should be getting.
You say that we'd have to replace 25 goals and 70 points, but if he can't play an entire season giving it his all and have anything left for the playoffs, what's the big deal about letting him go then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying Fletch but there are a few things:

Quote:
1) If Jagr was not used to playing with a guy like Dubi and is used to a center who skates more with the puck why is it that the most common reason why he didn't click with Gomez was because both players need the puck?
You can't have an offense that's ran through one player.

This a team sport, and unfortunately, the Rangers have been a pretty easy team to read. Stop Jagr, and stop the borderline non-existant offense.

Quote:
2) Another problem with the PP is when Jagr runs it from the half-boards, there is a smaller space for the defense to cover.
It's not even just that, this power play doesn't move, and doesn't shoot the puck to add. Not only that, but there's NO ONE that crashes the net on a consistant basis, so goaltenders are facing unobstructed 60 foot shots, and unless you've got an Al MacInnis like slapshot, you're going to be stopped.

Quote:
3) So much of Jagr's success is predicated of being able to shield the puck and have defenders unable to knock him off of it. And he struggled with that this season in fact, I believe the majority of penalties that he took I believe were frustrated hooks after losing the puck to a defenseman.
Excellent point there.

Quote:
4) If all of this is true, is any of this going to really change next season if he comes back?
This is what I've been saying... anyone want to go for Messier part 2 again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
2) when Jagr ran it from the half boards the previous two seasons the PP, while we all thought it should be better, wasn't all that bad (18.9%, 8th, 18.5%, 8th and then 16.5%, 22nd last season). From the half boards, he moved - he got defenses to move, creating lanes for passing and shooting. It's not the bombs from the point and deflections and junk around the net, but it was pretty effective since the numbers from the first two seasons weren't bad when he was IT on the PP (especially the first season).
The power play has always been a very stationary operation with this team in the "Jagr era" as you could call it.

The difference between now and 2 years ago is that Jagr could shoot the puck. The shoulder has definitely affected his game for the worse.

I agree though that Gomez should have been on the same power play as Jagr.

4) Can he get 70 points again? Why not? If he's not here and his 70 points are gone, who replaces them?
Who says he'll get even those numbers again? Nevermind better numbers...

He'll be a year older, and if he can't play a full season at full speed this year, what makes anyone think that at a year older he could?

People always talk about JJ's training regiment, and how it's so rigorous. How rigorous could it be if he can't play at least 70% of the season at full speed? He didn't even come close to playing half of the season at full speed. If it wasn't for his surge in March and into April, he would have missed the 20 goal mark for the first time in his career, and probably have scored less than 60 points.

Quote:
Do the players that did do well around him not play as well? Can other players step up?
There are if's in either direction. Like if Jagr comes back, who's to say he'll score even at the pace he did this year? If Jagr comes back and hurts his groin, what do we do being that we wasted 5-6 million on a guy who is now an INJURED 37 year old?

Quote:
I'd rather not see another year of this team struggling to score, which is what we saw at the beginning of last season.
If Jagr wasn't helping our cause this year, what makes you think he'll help out next season?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Ok heres the thing.

I'll probably be lambasted for this but this is how i feel.

I'm really not concerned about "replacing" Jagr.

Its more about the direction this team is heading in, and cutting ties with the Jagr era than who is going to replace him or where his production comes from. That style of play has to go IMO. The pass-before shoot mentality, the save it up for the end of the year motions. Theres an underlying suppressive force that comes when JJ is on a team. Hes such a unique guy.

A one year deal might work, but I seriously doubt Jagr will sign a one year deal for less than 6 million. He will most likely sign a two year deal and then you have a 38 year old hanging around in 2010 that is so unique you have to build half the offense around him. (an offense that scored in the very bottom ranks of the league mind you). Thats what im reaaaally scared about. Then you run the risk of trying to find players to adapt to HIM, when HE should be adapting to the TEAM, something he had a ton of trouble doing for the majority of last season. A team that will move on without him the following year no matter how well he does. So why wait? Nip it in the bud now.

I would rather go after some lesser names through trades and signing that arent flashy. Guys who can skate and shoot but not necessarily have hit their best years. Theyll be some risks there sure. But id rather take the risk and get more North-South wingers (with speed and size if you can get them) that compliment Drury and Gomez. Guys like Boyes, Cole, Roy, Malone, Perry, Hartnell, Gionta. These are names that are purely comparative. I dont know who exactly is out there or if any otf them will actually fit. The names are purely for ranking measures in the league. Look at a guy like Gionta, his numbers have dropped since Gomez left. Gomez makes the players around him better. Its up for the Rangers scouts to find a guy that suits his style well and can FINISH a play, unlike Straka and Jagr (and dont tell me Jagr finishes, because he didnt this past year).

See if you can sign or trade for one of those, if not wait and trade for them at the deadline. For Drury's wing, just get a guy whos scored 20 goals and is defensively responsible. Maybe has some more size and speed. Get creative, but dont break the bank, in case next years free agent crop has more to offer. This guy could be a mid-range player on the upswing of his career.

Again, i'd much rather run the risk of getting creative with 2 or 3 younger veteran wings (under 33) then resign Straka (36) Jagr (36) and Shanny (40) or Jagr alone. Even if they dont pan out, you are not stuck with Jagr in 2010 when hes skating around like a 40 year old trying to lead this team because he has a 6 million dollar contract. Or more. If you sign Hossa, yeah its great, you get a replacement, but at what cost? You'll have to fill other positions anyway.

Kinda like the A's moneyball method. Its a totally different sport, but the basis is there. Find the diamonds in the rough, dont break the bank, get creative and come up with another way to get through this season, instead of doing the obvious, most apparent move, which is signing Jagr.

I truly believe that most fans will be shouting buy-out and trade next summer when Jagr just has an ok season and future just doesn't look that great with another 6+mil year coming up.

Find out what Gomez and Drury want, scout your ass off and if you fail, oh well... i dont think the team would be much better with a Jagr bridge anyhow. Make it their team. You busted the bank to get these guys. You have to compliment them now. Maybe youll find a combination that works, a team that is playing one style instead of the "always defer to Jagr" style.
PERFECT post.

Point for point, you pretty much said what I wanted to.

Not only that, but since the lockout, haven't we Ranger fans had a big thing against big contracts to older, past prime, former stars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
I wonder what Hossa would have done for us in the playoffs without Crosby & Malkin.. Prob exactly what he did for Atlanta and Ottawa..ZIP..
He wasn't bad in Ottawa.

He had a terrible series with Atlanta, but still somehow lead their team in points...

Gee, who would have thought?

Quote:
Who lead the Rangers in points again in the playoffs? Was it that guy named Jagr?
And where are those Jagr-lead Rangers now?

That's right, they're on the greens getting ready for their tee times.

Quote:
Jagr is twice the man Hossa is.
Really, do you say that when Jagr is cherrypicking at the red line looking for a pass while his teammates are stuck back in the defensive zone playing 4 on 5 hockey?

Because with Hossa, that rarely happens.

Jagr definitely had a better career, but is NOWHERE near the all-around player that Hossa is.

Quote:
Bring back Jagr.
Ok, but when Jagr's numbers tail further off than they already have next year, I don't want to hear you complaining in January about him having scored less than 10 goals because he hasn't tuned up yet, saving it all for April on the hopes that we actually make the playoffs, and if we do, sneak in by the skin of our teeth to play a 1st seed while having a "barely enough" mentality that gets us swept in the 1st round.

You want to be like the Fishsticks were for those 3 years before the lockout?

Suit yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Jagr lead our team in goals, sure, but we also produced the 2nd least amount of goals in the league. It's hard to justify him "leading the team" in any category, when our team underachieved across the board for the most part. It's like being the least guilty guy in prison.
Excellent point.

Quote:
Now the question becomes, 'Who can we get to replace him?' Well I think that's looking at it the wrong way. We have Drury and Gomez, who are more than capable of leading the team if Jagr is gone, so the issue of leadership is solved from within. That basically leaves you with point production. Now if you're going to try and replace 25 goals, there are enough options via free agency (Rolston, Ryder or Huselius) or RFA/Trade (Perry, Cole, etc) who can easily replace that kind of production. Not to mention, the money you save can go towards signing guys we want to keep, or signing guys that can fill holes in our lineup. I.E., the 6 mil we save by letting Jagr go could sign Ryder AND Liles more than likely.
I don't even worry about the leadership issue. Jagr is a terrible captain to begin with. Someone who doesn't know what his own end of the rink looks like is not someone I'd put the C on for my team. That's just a lack of hustle and heart right there.

Now with point production, who says that the players that we'd be bringing in would be replacing those numbers? Jagr could end up scoring less next season. He's lost two steps from 06. The odds say he'll lose another. And even if we don't replace him with scoring, if we could upgrade our defense, speed, and grit, we could still get by. we have young talent that will be able to make more of an impact.

We need to get away from this east-west perimeter crap, and play a North-South lunchpail game. I felt that we made strides toward it this season. Why keep around the old guard when their way isn't working?

Quote:
It's pretty clear that Renney is going to be favoring a defensive strategy while he's here. Now if you want to generate offense from that type of game, you need to be a puck possession / transition team. You need to be able to dig the puck out of your own end or generate turnovers in the neutral zone and push the other team back on it's heels. Unfortunately, Jagr doesn't fit into that mold.
We have the players that can play that game, and there were flashes of it this year.

Jagr doesn't fit that mold. Straka doesn't fit that mold. Shanahan doesn't fit that mold. Renney is obviously trying to push that upon everyone, and it worked when everyone was on the same page.

Get rid of the players who don't want to adapt, because eventually those players will not have a say because they won't be able to play at the level needed to have that say.

Quote:
I think Jagr's style of play is fading out. I think this team is becoming a place where Hall of Famer's come to retire. Thats not the kind of organization we should be. I want to be pumped up for a new direction in September, not waiting around to see if Jagr can get it together.
Exactly.

I've been saying the east-west game needs to go for 2 years now. The more north-south this team gets, the more they'll win. Look at Pittsburgh, they have all the skilled players in the world, but they get to the net.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
Didn't get your point.
What is worse?
a)to have Rolston for two years and Ryder for 3-4 years
or
b)to have Jagr for 1-2 years

And only thing we know for sure, that Jagr wants to play for Rangers.
What makes you sure that Slats would be able to sign Ryder or Rolston?
His point was that Buffalo let their team go to sign one guy who they thought was the franchise, in Vanek. They paid for it, because he dissapeared for most of the season, and only got hot late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
This team clearly needs a change. What we've been doing so far has yet to get us higher than the 2nd round. Like I said before, I'd rather see the team start making moves to compliment the players we're going to have for the next 5 years, not the ones that will be gone in two.
Another great point.

Quote:
The player I'd really love to trade for is Corey Perry. However, I think in order to get him, we're going to have to move Dubinsky, which is something I'm on the fence about, and I'm sure will outrage a lot of folks on this board.
I don't see it happening, and not just because I don't want to give up Dubinsky, but I just don't see Anaheim letting their top goalscorer go, especially after they had a lot of trouble scoring goals with the firepower they had.

Moving McDonald for Weight was probably the worst possible move they could make. Andy McDonald had a huge impact on that team.

Quote:
I'd really like to see Anisimov moved up to play wing next season. Giving him even a half season of NHL experience would allow the team to possibly move Dubinsky in a trade, or provide some other teams with a view of what AA is capable of at the NHL level and increase his value. It's very hard to give up Dubi, but at some point, one of our extra centers is going to have to be moved, and until I see AA get some NHL time, Dubi simply has more value to other teams.
And this is just one of the reasons why we're better off not bringing back guys like Jagr, Shanny, and Straka.[/QUOTE]

I mean the lineup is feasible, it could work, but like I said, I just don't see Anaheim giving up Perry. That's not nearly enough to get him. They'd probably want Dubinsky, a mid level prospect and a 1st, and at that point, I'd rather not make that deal.

I don't like Ryder at all. I cringe when I see people calling for him to be a blueshirt. The guy is a streaky, one-dimensional player who is either flaming hot or freezing cold. He must play hockey on a circular rink, because he never goes into the corners, and he must think that there's only offense hockey, because he doesn't come back on defense at all. There's a reason why he's been in and out of the doghouse for most of his career.

I hope we can get Avery back for less than that. 2.5 mill would be perfect for him... although I'm willing to spend up to 3 to get him back.

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Old
05-14-2008, 03:00 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
He had less room, and couldn't adjust to new centers.

This team cannot afford to be built around a player that can't adjust to a new style that's inevitably going to take over.



The power play has been somewhat stationary since Jagr came here.

The difference was in 06, Jagr could shoot the puck. After the shoulder injury, he just hasn't been the same with his shot. It's like he's playing one twitch away from ruining that shoulder for the rest of his life... why even play at that point?



And Jagr doesn't skate enough in general. He's lost his speed. He's losing his strength. Due to those two factors, he looked very disinterested at times, and that's not someone I want playing on my team, regardless of who he is.

Everyone wants this guy as a stop-gap solution. If he is signed, and he falters, I don't want to hear anyone that wanted him signed calling for his head in December/January.



You say that we'd have to replace 25 goals and 70 points, but if he can't play an entire season giving it his all and have anything left for the playoffs, what's the big deal about letting him go then?



Who says he'll get even those numbers again? Nevermind better numbers...

He'll be a year older, and if he can't play a full season at full speed this year, what makes anyone think that at a year older he could?

People always talk about JJ's training regiment, and how it's so rigorous. How rigorous could it be if he can't play at least 70% of the season at full speed? He didn't even come close to playing half of the season at full speed. If it wasn't for his surge in March and into April, he would have missed the 20 goal mark for the first time in his career, and probably have scored less than 60 points.



There are if's in either direction. Like if Jagr comes back, who's to say he'll score even at the pace he did this year? If Jagr comes back and hurts his groin, what do we do being that we wasted 5-6 million on a guy who is now an INJURED 37 year old?



If Jagr wasn't helping our cause this year, what makes you think he'll help out next season?



PERFECT post.

Point for point, you pretty much said what I wanted to.

Not only that, but since the lockout, haven't we Ranger fans had a big thing against big contracts to older, past prime, former stars?



He wasn't bad in Ottawa.

He had a terrible series with Atlanta, but still somehow lead their team in points...

Gee, who would have thought?



And where are those Jagr-lead Rangers now?

That's right, they're on the greens getting ready for their tee times.



Really, do you say that when Jagr is cherrypicking at the red line looking for a pass while his teammates are stuck back in the defensive zone playing 4 on 5 hockey?

Because with Hossa, that rarely happens.

Jagr definitely had a better career, but is NOWHERE near the all-around player that Hossa is.



Ok, but when Jagr's numbers tail further off than they already have next year, I don't want to hear you complaining in January about him having scored less than 10 goals because he hasn't tuned up yet, saving it all for April on the hopes that we actually make the playoffs, and if we do, sneak in by the skin of our teeth to play a 1st seed while having a "barely enough" mentality that gets us swept in the 1st round.

You want to be like the Fishsticks were for those 3 years before the lockout?

Suit yourself.



Excellent point.



I don't even worry about the leadership issue. Jagr is a terrible captain to begin with. Someone who doesn't know what his own end of the rink looks like is not someone I'd put the C on for my team. That's just a lack of hustle and heart right there.

Now with point production, who says that the players that we'd be bringing in would be replacing those numbers? Jagr could end up scoring less next season. He's lost two steps from 06. The odds say he'll lose another. And even if we don't replace him with scoring, if we could upgrade our defense, speed, and grit, we could still get by. we have young talent that will be able to make more of an impact.

We need to get away from this east-west perimeter crap, and play a North-South lunchpail game. I felt that we made strides toward it this season. Why keep around the old guard when their way isn't working?



We have the players that can play that game, and there were flashes of it this year.

Jagr doesn't fit that mold. Straka doesn't fit that mold. Shanahan doesn't fit that mold. Renney is obviously trying to push that upon everyone, and it worked when everyone was on the same page.

Get rid of the players who don't want to adapt, because eventually those players will not have a say because they won't be able to play at the level needed to have that say.



Exactly.

I've been saying the east-west game needs to go for 2 years now. The more north-south this team gets, the more they'll win. Look at Pittsburgh, they have all the skilled players in the world, but they get to the net.



His point was that Buffalo let their team go to sign one guy who they thought was the franchise, in Vanek. They paid for it, because he dissapeared for most of the season, and only got hot late.



Another great point.



I don't see it happening, and not just because I don't want to give up Dubinsky, but I just don't see Anaheim letting their top goalscorer go, especially after they had a lot of trouble scoring goals with the firepower they had.

Moving McDonald for Weight was probably the worst possible move they could make. Andy McDonald had a huge impact on that team.



And this is just one of the reasons why we're better off not bringing back guys like Jagr, Shanny, and Straka.
I mean the lineup is feasible, it could work, but like I said, I just don't see Anaheim giving up Perry. That's not nearly enough to get him. They'd probably want Dubinsky, a mid level prospect and a 1st, and at that point, I'd rather not make that deal.

I don't like Ryder at all. I cringe when I see people calling for him to be a blueshirt. The guy is a streaky, one-dimensional player who is either flaming hot or freezing cold. He must play hockey on a circular rink, because he never goes into the corners, and he must think that there's only offense hockey, because he doesn't come back on defense at all. There's a reason why he's been in and out of the doghouse for most of his career.

I hope we can get Avery back for less than that. 2.5 mill would be perfect for him... although I'm willing to spend up to 3 to get him back.[/QUOTE]

i totally agree. much rather get for malone, we need a big power forward.

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05-14-2008, 06:30 AM
  #221
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Again Fletch, I see where you're coming from. My only counter to what you're saying is this: The vets have to leave sometime. Sure there's a lot of 'if' going on in this whole scenario. But you have to look at it both ways. Signing Jagr, Straka and Shanny back doesn't necessarily mean they're going to contribute as much as they did this season.

This team clearly needs a change. What we've been doing so far has yet to get us higher than the 2nd round. Like I said before, I'd rather see the team start making moves to compliment the players we're going to have for the next 5 years, not the ones that will be gone in two.

As for the lines, I mentioned they weren't organized the way I wanted to, but my post was lengthy enough so I left them alone. The moves I'd make hinge too much on what other teams will be doing over the summer. The player I'd really love to trade for is Corey Perry. However, I think in order to get him, we're going to have to move Dubinsky, which is something I'm on the fence about, and I'm sure will outrage a lot of folks on this board.

I'd really like to see Anisimov moved up to play wing next season. Giving him even a half season of NHL experience would allow the team to possibly move Dubinsky in a trade, or provide some other teams with a view of what AA is capable of at the NHL level and increase his value. It's very hard to give up Dubi, but at some point, one of our extra centers is going to have to be moved, and until I see AA get some NHL time, Dubi simply has more value to other teams.

I'd like to move Prucha, but unless we package him with someone else or a pick, we aren't going to get much in return.

In an ideal world, my lineup looks like this at the start of the season:

Sign: Ryder, Liles and Stuart
Resign: Vally and Avery
Trades: Perry for Dawes, Callahan, 1st in 08 (probably a little short here)
Torres for Prucha + 4th in 08


Avery (3) - Gomez (7.357) - Ryder (3.5) 13.85
Anisimov (850k) - Drury (7.05) - Perry (4) 11.9
Korpikoski (1.02) - Dubi (633k) - Torres (2.25) 3.9
Byers (608k) - Betts (615k) - Sjostrom / Orr (1.3 combined) 2.5
Offense: 32.15

Staal (826k) - Liles (3.1) 3.93
Girardi (1.5) - Tyutin (2.7?) 4.2
Backman (2.3) - Stuart (3.7) 6.0
Potter/Baranka (say 500k)
Defense: 14.63

Lundqvist (6.85)
Vally (800k)
Goalies: 7.65

Total: 54.43 mil

Thats being a little generous with Avery as well as Ryder, IMO. So it sneaks us just inside 56mil with the 1.5 in dead cap we have.

In my opinion, we improve across the board. We gain some grit and skill, but don't lose any speed. We give up Callahan and Dawes, but IMO they're just too small to really start to deliver on their potential.

I've been logical all day, I felt like going a little off the grid with all that.
That's lineup which will guarantee you top5 pick in draft.
Otoh, i like the defense, but i would exchange Orpik for Stuart.
Perry is not going anywhere unless Rangers are sending Staal other way.
I'm very low on Ryder - this guy was benched quite often in Montreal(and had zero points points in 4 playoff games) and he should be Rangers saviour? Hell no.
In short, some posters wants to change proven scorer(and Rangers captain) who is still able to get 72 points and get hot in playoffs
for
streaky player(who is 30g/30a at best) who disappears in playoffs.
Sounds like lose-lose situation to me.
Your proposed lineup has quite big problem on LW as well.
Anisimov(who is natural center) should play on 2nd line?
Avery who is 2nd/3rd liner is now playing on 1st?
Too many new faces, too many question marks.

Sather will have very difficult offseason, but i highly doubt he would let Ryder play 1st line RW or Anisimov 2nd line LW.

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05-14-2008, 07:15 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
Buffalo missed the playoffs this season because their management was too incompetent to retain the backbone of their team. I'm gonna go out on a limb and posture that Slats isn't that stupid/cheap.

Slats and the Rangers management feel the obligation to show a marquee player Gomez and Drury are not the ones. Neither would be Ryder nor Rolston.

Jagr is a definite - 2 year deal. Once you accept that - build your model around it.


Last edited by Sad London Ranger: 05-14-2008 at 10:34 AM.
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05-14-2008, 07:20 AM
  #223
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If this thread is any indication, the Rangers organizational meetings should be interesting.

FA wise, it looks like the same caliber players as last year are not available. A trade is more possible then? Who knows.

I think they will make Jagr and Avery the priority. With Dubinsky, that's a 1st line that has worked well.

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Old
05-14-2008, 07:29 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
Slats and the Rangers management feel the obligation to show a marquee player will Gomez and Drury are the ones. Neither would be Ryder nor Rolston.

Jagr is a definite - 2 year deal. Once you accept that - build your model around it.
If they do bring Jagr back, it has to be on one year deals. The last thing the Rangers can afford to get stuck with is an over 35 y/o player who gets injured or decides to head to Russia.

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Old
05-14-2008, 09:55 AM
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
Slats and the Rangers management feel the obligation to show a marquee player will Gomez and Drury are the ones. Neither would be Ryder nor Rolston.

Jagr is a definite - 2 year deal. Once you accept that - build your model around it.
Jagr is by no means a definite. And certainly not for 2 years. And you don't build your model around a 36 year old winger when you've got big money invested in two centers (the marquee players you mentioned) who are in their prime neither of whom Jagr can seemingly play with.

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