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Our biggest problem is down the middle

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Old
05-08-2008, 11:59 AM
  #51
Habs 4 Life
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Originally Posted by yarfangor View Post
He said at the trade Deadline "I hope I stay, but then again I don't even know if I'm going to be playing next year." "Since I am older then 30 I feel its my right to say I want to stay in Toronto and finish my career here. If i was younger like in my 20s it would be a different story"

He said something along those lines, but after watching the Question-Answer period with Sundin I really didn't want him because I knew he would be retiring the next year or even that year.
People in toronto would kill him if he would sign with another team after him not wanting to waive his NTC,and if he would sign with us,it would be so funny

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Old
05-08-2008, 12:01 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
that's the big problem with alot of people here
Problem is Koivu has a No Trade Clause. The man played all his career for the Habs, has battled through a lot of adversity here, was part of the horrible years with the Habs. This year, we finished 1st, our team is shaping up to be a dominant one for many years, and you expect Koivu to waive his NTC???...He would have left Mtl a looooong time if he really wanted to leave. We're closer than ever to winning a cup, Koivu will resign here next year and will retire has a habs, you can be sure of that.

The man deserves the out most respect for staying through the bad times and never complain.

As for the Jokinen trade, Martin would ask for more.

I don't think Gainey will look to make a trade. He likes the core of young players, Higgins is a big part of it..

I really feel like Gainey should focus a lot on Campbell or Rozival. Adding one of these two, would give us the best Defense in the East hands down.
After that, he should try to get a player like Rolston.

Latendresse if he really does go to a skating camp like he mentioned, will be very good next year. If our players keep progressing like they do, then we do not really need a huge impact player.

Koivu-Sk-Lats
Plek-Ak-Ak
Chipchura-Higgins-Rolston
Begin-Lapierre-Kosto (Streit)

Markov-Komi
Campbell(Rozival)-Hamr
Bouillon-Gorges-O'Byrne

If Lats is put all season with Koivu and gets PP minutes he will net around 20-25G.
SK has been amazing, if he keeps progressing, he should be incredible next year, the same goes for his Bro.
Adding Rolston to this 3rd line, would give us one of the best 2way lines in the league IMO.
And we would actually really have an ''energy'' line for a 4th line.

Of course, adding a guy like Sundin/Hossa/Jagr will always be amazing, but i would focus more on getting an all star Dman.

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Old
05-08-2008, 12:29 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Problem is Koivu has a No Trade Clause. The man played all his career for the Habs, has battled through a lot of adversity here, was part of the horrible years with the Habs. This year, we finished 1st, our team is shaping up to be a dominant one for many years, and you expect Koivu to waive his NTC???...He would have left Mtl a looooong time if he really wanted to leave. We're closer than ever to winning a cup, Koivu will resign here next year and will retire has a habs, you can be sure of that.

The man deserves the out most respect for staying through the bad times and never complain.

As for the Jokinen trade, Martin would ask for more.

I don't think Gainey will look to make a trade. He likes the core of young players, Higgins is a big part of it..

I really feel like Gainey should focus a lot on Campbell or Rozival. Adding one of these two, would give us the best Defense in the East hands down.
After that, he should try to get a player like Rolston.

Latendresse if he really does go to a skating camp like he mentioned, will be very good next year. If our players keep progressing like they do, then we do not really need a huge impact player.

Koivu-Sk-Lats
Plek-Ak-Ak
Chipchura-Higgins-Rolston
Begin-Lapierre-Kosto (Streit)

Markov-Komi
Campbell(Rozival)-Hamr
Bouillon-Gorges-O'Byrne

If Lats is put all season with Koivu and gets PP minutes he will net around 20-25G.
SK has been amazing, if he keeps progressing, he should be incredible next year, the same goes for his Bro.
Adding Rolston to this 3rd line, would give us one of the best 2way lines in the league IMO.
And we would actually really have an ''energy'' line for a 4th line.

Of course, adding a guy like Sundin/Hossa/Jagr will always be amazing, but i would focus more on getting an all star Dman.

Getting that all star Dman like Campbell wouldn't be easy. There are a lot more teams a lot more desperate to find that puck moving Dman than the Habs. ie: Sharks, Sens, etc... Campbell would cost between 7-8 mil longterm and Roszival would be like 5-6 mil long term. Mtl had to "overpay" to sign Hamrlik and Markov so you can't expect to get one of these to guys under market value. Plus when you consider Gainey needs to lock up Komi long term after next season it is highly doubtful that he is going after Campbell or Roszival.

Mtl. would probably have to overpay to get Rolston as well, he's not signing in Mtl for 3 mil, any number of teams with just as good a shot at the playoffs/cup will be offering him that kind of money. So basically I think your hope to sign and all star D man and Rolston are a bit optimistic under the cap.

Signing one of Hossa, Campbell or Roszival would all be long term signings and realistically would limit/eliminate the Habs chances of adding any one else in FA over the next couple of years. Keeping in mind Mtl. has a lot of work to do to keep the core together, Higgins, Pleks, Komi, Lats, Chips, Koivu and Kovy among others are entering their last contract year. Basically you sign one of those three that is all you are doing.

Jagr, Sundin, Rolston are options I like more because they are mostly short term guys (1-3 year contracts) who can have a big impact.

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Old
05-08-2008, 12:47 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by #57 View Post
Of course our problem lies at center. Let me break it down for you:

WINGERS:
Kovalev
Latendresse
Kostitsyn
Kostitsyn
Pacioretty
Higgins
D'Agostini
Wyman

This right there my friend is 8 wingers that either are already top-6 forwards or will probably be pretty soon.

DEFENSE:
Komisarek
Markov
O'Byrne
Hamrlik
Gorges
McDonagh
Valentenko
Emelin
Carle
Fischer
Weber
Subban

12 blueliners that all have the potential to be top-4 Ds. 3 of them already are.

GOALIES:
Price
Halak
Danis

Enough said.

CENTERS:
The problem here is that we have Lapierre and Smolinski, two players that are barely NHLers at this point, along with Koivu and Plekanec, two players that are barely 5'9 180.

In the pipeline we've got Chipchura, Trotter, Maxwell, White, Aubin. Bunch of 3rd liners basically, our only hope really is Maxwell who IMO won't really be any better than Plekanec. Yet another 'soft' 2nd line center.

Of course our biggest problem is down the middle. Add LeCavalier or Eric Staal or Joe Thornton to this team and this is a whole different scenario against the Flyers, who BTW have Jeff Carter, Mike Richards and Daniel Briere down C.

Chipchura could be our Richards
Plekanec/Koivu are our Briere
Who will be our Carter? Our LeCavalier? Our Jokinen, Staal, Thornton, Spezza, Getzlaf?

When will we finally get a big #1 center that can break a game loose?
Chipchura could be our WHAT? Don't you agree that he's missing a few things, among them shot and speed? He's simply not in the class of a Mike Richards. As for your question about WHEN those players you name will arrive, you'll have to be patient, long-term patient.

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Old
05-08-2008, 12:51 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
no there not, both are fair.

There's been rumors about Jokinen wanting to leave Florida for a long time now, giving them Higgins, a 1st pick and a defensive prospect could be enough. And Marleau for Koivu is even more equal, as both are UFA next year, Koivu has his best firend there, he's cheaper and is more playoff proven then Marleau, while Marleau has had more success during regular swasons, is less injurie prone and would fill our need for a big center
This post is a rehash of old, discredited, Eklund-type material. It didn't happen in the past, it's not going to happen now, and it's not likely to happen in the future. So bury it in the archives.

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Old
05-08-2008, 12:53 PM
  #56
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Chipchura doesn't stand a chance in hell of becoming our Mike Richards, there is only a handful of a guys in the league that can be considered as complete as him and Chipchura is not one of them. Chipchura will work in a shutdown role similar to that of Richards, but i would never expect him to peak higher then 20g/40pts in his prime.

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Old
05-08-2008, 01:25 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
During Game 5, I believe it was the 2nd Flyer goal, Richards blew thru the neutral zone while Lapierre was stationary, trying to trap, but waiting on his heels. I thought that play was an example of young players just not 'getting' it yet. A guy like him has to understand how to take away space on his side of centre.

Ratther than dream of deals for guys like Marleau that I'm starting to think come with baggage, do what Gainey says. What was his comment yesterday, youy can get better players or make your players better. As the kids mature, little but important things will have to be learned.
Along similar lines BG also said something about a good team growing together as a team. An improved Lapierre has an intangible added value over a newcomer of similar ability simply by virtue of having been a part of the team growth.

Speaking of "kids", if the Habs choose to replace Brisebois, Smolinski and Dandenault with O'Byrne, Chipchura and Stewart/D'Agostini respectively the team becomes even younger.

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Old
05-08-2008, 02:03 PM
  #58
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Personally I feel quite adequate down the middle . You're a better man than me for addressing this issue publicly.

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Old
05-08-2008, 06:49 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by GermanyMontrealExpat View Post
Personally I feel quite adequate down the middle . You're a better man than me for addressing this issue publicly.
Don't worry, size and toughness is not a need, personnaly it's your wingers that need a little help. lol

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Old
05-08-2008, 10:49 PM
  #60
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Actually, the biggest problem was that it was another year of gutless performance in the playoffs by bunch of sissy girlies who folded like a cheap suit case because they didn't want to do whatever it takes to win.

We're almost there but the softie brothers along with the fellow Russians need to start doing those things that win them the dirty battles a la Koivu and Begin.

Then surround them with some solid supporting cast like Ethan Moreaus, Aaron Millers, Brandon Morrows, etc who have hairs on their balls!

CH will never win the Cup if this isn't addressed.

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05-08-2008, 11:05 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Actually, the biggest problem was that it was another year of gutless performance in the playoffs by bunch of sissy girlies who folded like a cheap suit case because they didn't want to do whatever it takes to win.

We're almost there but the softie brothers along with the fellow Russians need to start doing those things that win them the dirty battles a la Koivu and Begin.

Then surround them with some solid supporting cast like Ethan Moreaus, Aaron Millers, Brandon Morrows, etc who have hairs on their balls!

CH will never win the Cup if this isn't addressed.
If you want to start pointing fingers.... Start by Plekanec. Guy was horr-i-ble.

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Old
05-09-2008, 04:45 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Actually, the biggest problem was that it was another year of gutless performance in the playoffs by bunch of sissy girlies who folded like a cheap suit case because they didn't want to do whatever it takes to win.

We're almost there but the softie brothers along with the fellow Russians need to start doing those things that win them the dirty battles a la Koivu and Begin.

Then surround them with some solid supporting cast like Ethan Moreaus, Aaron Millers, Brandon Morrows, etc who have hairs on their balls!

CH will never win the Cup if this isn't addressed.
Watch the games next time.

Sergei Kostitsyn was a PLUS-5. To say he folded is ridiculous. Nor was he "soft".

The truth is the team hit too many goalposts and missed too many open nets and if that's the case, Steve Begin is not the best model to teach the guys to finish a bit better.

The power play could have been better but considering that BOTH Markov and Streit were playing injured, a drop in efficiency is no longer surprising. But again, this had nothing to do with "softness".

The Flyers simply got the better of the breaks in this series and so they won. People forget the Habs' 4-game sweep of Buffalo in 1993 where all four games were by the score of 4-3, three of which were in overtime. The Sabres hit multiple goalposts or were robbed by Roy and came away without even the one win Montreal got this year against Philadelphia. The Habs got the breaks in 1993 and they won the Cup. They were good but they also had to have some fortune. Nobody gets that fortune every year. For the Sabres, as well as they played, 1993 wasn't THEIR year.

The one major point on which I agree with David is that Koivu was a warrior!

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Old
05-09-2008, 06:24 AM
  #63
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The truth is the team hit too many goalposts and missed too many open nets and if that's the case
....

The Flyers simply got the better of the breaks in this series and so they won.
i agree with everything you said for the most part but i wanted to somewhat disagree with you as well, the difference between the two teams wasnt so much they got breaks and we didnt because we both did, they actually buried their chances while the habs didnt bury enough of them to make a series of it, in the end, the better team won, but it wasnt specifically because they got all the breaks and we got none, we had chances and for the most part we didnt capitalize on them.

the rest of what you said is spot on tho, specially about koivu

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Old
05-09-2008, 06:29 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
If you want to start pointing fingers.... Start by Plekanec. Guy was horr-i-ble.
how was he, by producing almost at the same clip as in the reg. season ?

-> 0.75 PPG in the PO vs 0.83 PPG in reg. season games / 54% in face-offs in 12 PO games, 49% in 81 reg. season games.

maybe we should point finger at A.K. too
-> 0.67 PPG in his first NHL PO ever and 0.67 in reg. season...

or his brother Sergei
-> 0.51 PPG in reg season and 0.41 in his first NHL PO too...



but dont mention Higgins (0.63 PPG in reg. VS 0.41 in the PO), or Latendresse (0.36 PPG in reg VS 0.12 in PO) though! they were just fine

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Old
05-09-2008, 06:46 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Actually, the biggest problem was that it was another year of gutless performance in the playoffs by bunch of sissy girlies who folded like a cheap suit case because they didn't want to do whatever it takes to win.

We're almost there but the softie brothers along with the fellow Russians need to start doing those things that win them the dirty battles a la Koivu and Begin.

Then surround them with some solid supporting cast like Ethan Moreaus, Aaron Millers, Brandon Morrows, etc who have hairs on their balls!

CH will never win the Cup if this isn't addressed.
Holy overreaction batman!

So in your book, rookies have to be all perfect in the playoffs right? Un-****ing-Believable.

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Old
05-09-2008, 07:06 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Actually, the biggest problem was that it was another year of gutless performance in the playoffs by bunch of sissy girlies who folded like a cheap suit case because they didn't want to do whatever it takes to win.

We're almost there but the softie brothers along with the fellow Russians need to start doing those things that win them the dirty battles a la Koivu and Begin.

Then surround them with some solid supporting cast like Ethan Moreaus, Aaron Millers, Brandon Morrows, etc who have hairs on their balls!

CH will never win the Cup if this isn't addressed.
Another year by whom ? Latendresse ? Lapierre ? Halak ? Price ? Sergei Kost ? his older brother ? Streit ?

or maybe you were talking about our play-offs vets such as Higgins, Plekanec or Gorges ?

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Old
05-09-2008, 07:12 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Another year by whom ? Latendresse ? Lapierre ? Halak ? Price ? Sergei Kost ? his older brother ? Streit ?

or maybe you were talking about our play-offs vets such as Higgins, Plekanec or Gorges ?
Vets ? Thats still funny in itself.

People just expect too much too fast. Come on guys, just appreciate that we have reached the 2nd round of the playoff with a pretty young team, thats all there is too it. The big picture looks very good, but we do need to add 1 big piece to make our attack dangerous in the playoffs.

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05-09-2008, 07:17 AM
  #68
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Vets ? Thats still funny in itself.

People just expect too much too fast. Come on guys, just appreciate that we have reached the 2nd round of the playoff with a pretty young team, thats all there is too it. The big picture looks very good, but we do need to add 1 big piece to make our attack dangerous in the playoffs.

...

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05-09-2008, 07:56 AM
  #69
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Let's go get Vermette

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Old
05-09-2008, 09:05 AM
  #70
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For those who are intrested in Jokinen, he will be playing as winger in team Finland (at least against Latvia) because Koivu joined the team (OJ will be playing with younger Koivu).

I have to say that I have been far from impressed by Jokinen's play these world championships so far, but for those who are intersted and wonder if Jokinen could play wing for couple of seasons untill Koivu descends to pure supportive (4th line) role, there is now free prewiev available.

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05-09-2008, 10:40 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
If you want to start pointing fingers.... Start by Plekanec. Guy was horr-i-ble.
Did you watch game 6-7 vs Boston, or the Philly series?? He was one of our best forwards over that stretch...

He wasn't very good when Koivu was hurt, but after Saku came back he was noticeably better.

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05-09-2008, 12:43 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
If you want to start pointing fingers.... Start by Plekanec.Agreed Guy was horr-i-ble.Agreed even more!
I was tremendously disappointed at Plekanecs and the only saving grace for Gui this year was that he was francophone.

With the body he has, should be playing like Cam 'freaking' Neeley...or at least be trying to! If he can't keep up with the play, at least go screen the goalie and create some havoc! No, Mr. Creampuff does none of that but he stays in the line up to take valuable time away from othere who at least deserve another shot in the line up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Another year by whom ? Latendresse ? Lapierre ? Halak ? Price ? Sergei Kost ? his older brother ? Streit ?

or maybe you were talking about our play-offs vets such as Higgins, Plekanec or Gorges ?
Another year collectively as a team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Watch the games next time.

Sergei Kostitsyn was a PLUS-5. To say he folded is ridiculous. Nor was he "soft".

The truth is the team hit too many goalposts and missed too many open nets and if that's the case, Steve Begin is not the best model to teach the guys to finish a bit better.

The power play could have been better but considering that BOTH Markov and Streit were playing injured, a drop in efficiency is no longer surprising. But again, this had nothing to do with "softness".

The Flyers simply got the better of the breaks in this series and so they won. People forget the Habs' 4-game sweep of Buffalo in 1993 where all four games were by the score of 4-3, three of which were in overtime. The Sabres hit multiple goalposts or were robbed by Roy and came away without even the one win Montreal got this year against Philadelphia. The Habs got the breaks in 1993 and they won the Cup. They were good but they also had to have some fortune. Nobody gets that fortune every year. For the Sabres, as well as they played, 1993 wasn't THEIR year.

The one major point on which I agree with David is that Koivu was a warrior!
Sergei became timid and apprehensive once Hatcher started hitting him regularly. He became a perimeter player and yes, played like another little girl towards the end.

The difference wasn't that Flyers got better breaks but that they created better breaks by working harder and simplified their game.

They also hustled their butts off and did all those little things right by taking hits to make their plays, grinding it out along the boards, etc and started taking away time and space from CH so that CH's couldn't manufacture any of their fancy plays!

It's the EFFORT that was lacking on CH's part.

You create your own luck and aside from Koivu and Begin (despite the bad penalty) CH on the whole seemed very content to go home.

In the end, the harder working team won (and not the more talented and hence better team) because they simply wanted to win more. It's not surprising since that team's full of warrior champions like Jason Smith, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Scottie Upshall, etc who have done nothing but win throughout their careers and are not afraid to win at any cost!

THAT is what CH is missing...ONCE AGAIN STILL!


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05-09-2008, 02:30 PM
  #73
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Holy overreaction batman!

So in your book, rookies have to be all perfect in the playoffs right? Un-****ing-Believable.
Rookies do have to hustle and do the little things that will help them win the little battles even if it means getting the snot beaten out of you. This is ultimately the difference between regular season and the playoffs and this is what determines the Stanely Cup champions and the Wannabes...

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Old
05-09-2008, 02:32 PM
  #74
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Rookies do have to hustle and do the little things that will help them win the little battles even if it means getting the snot beaten out of you. This is ultimately the difference between regular season and the playoffs and this is what determines the Stanely Cup champions and the Wannabes...
The point was that Rookies may not understand this on their first time in the playoffs.... they will learn what they need to do with experience.

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Old
05-09-2008, 03:23 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Brieremania View Post
The point was that Rookies may not understand this on their first time in the playoffs.... they will learn what they need to do with experience.
Granted, but since Koivu and Begin were the only ones doing this, and they are being bashed unreasonably while creampuffs like Kovalevs are being exhonerated and made heroes of, how will they learn that Koivu is to be emulated and that this is what they need to do?

Kids learn by example and not by what they're told.

This is why this team needs the Ethan Moreaus and Jason Smiths and the Morrows to surround these talented young'uns. Otherwise, they'll develop into another set of selfish, half assed ballet dancers who will disappoint us year after year.

I am still of the mind that this team can win the CUP within the next 2 to 3 years...but only if the right things are taught and the right things are rewarded!

Enough with this garabage about Koivu and French. Enough with blindly cheering on Montreal regardless of what they do. That is the Toronto Maple Leafs culture that allowed them to wallow in their self pity and mediocrity year after freaking year!

We are the Montreal Canadiens! The letters on the sweat has to mean something!

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