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Goaltending Controversy?

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Old
02-11-2004, 12:22 AM
  #1
GKJ
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Goaltending Controversy?

I think this is the first time that the goaltending controversy has been amongst 3 goalies.

Listening to the radio, and reading posts here, including to talking to various other people, they want Antero Niittymaki in net. Big Daddy Graham is leading the Antero Niittymaki pep rally right now on WIP. Niittymaki played his best game tonight


Clarke brings in Sean Burke, to back up Esche, but to be the #1 until Esche returns. Do we really need him?

Robert Esche is the #1, but we have a former #1 and a future #1 in the team right now.

Discuss.

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02-11-2004, 12:44 AM
  #2
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Nitty played great tonight, but this was his last game this year for the Flyers unless someone gets hurt. And IMO its for the best, as good as he has looked the defense has played that much better. Hes still got some holes in his game(like a lot of rebounds) and I think starting for the Phantoms in the playoffs should help. Lets him play there and come in next year for a chance to be on the big team.

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02-11-2004, 12:48 AM
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The key is if the option for next year on Burke is picked up. If Burke is let go (and we wouldn't get a compensation pick I don't beleive on a team option, this is player and team option), we would be handing Niittymaki the backup job, and I think it might be in the best interests if he has to earn it as opposed to being the backup and being expected to perform the way he has with less ice time, and still be so young, and having some pressure put on him.

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02-11-2004, 01:03 AM
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It all depends on how well the team, and more importantly Robert Esche does in the playoffs.

Niittymaki has looked good, but there is no need to rush him.

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02-11-2004, 06:31 AM
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Somebody (itmay have been me, I don't remember) stated correctly that the only problem with starting Niitymaki against the Devil's is if the Flyers win everyone will make Niity into the second coming. The defense bailed him out as much as he bailed them out. The 18 guys in front of him were really on their game last night, Niity DID NOT steal one for them, they all earned it.

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02-11-2004, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
Clarke brings in Sean Burke, to back up Esche, but to be the #1 until Esche returns. Do we really need him?

Robert Esche is the #1, but we have a former #1 and a future #1 in the team right now.

Discuss.
If Esche is going to become a true #1 goalie next year like I believe he will, then I would prefer to have Burke backing himup than Frank. As a true #1 I'd like to see Esche play in 60-65 games next year.

If that's the case, then it makes more sense to have Frank play 60-65 games with the Phantoms, and play for them in the playoffs.

Then bring him up the following year.

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02-11-2004, 09:55 AM
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Exactly, no need to rush this guy into a starting role yet. Three games are easy to handle, but 60 are not. We don't want to make the same mistake the rags did with Blackburn, the poor guy is burned out and has lost all confidence. He's invisible on the radar right now. I say give Nitty a few more starts this year and see how he holds up till Esche is back. I reckon he'd likely play Saturday but i guess that depends on Burke's performance Thursday. The guy needs to have a good playoff run in the AHL before he could be considered for the #2 slot in Philly.

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02-11-2004, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous
Somebody (itmay have been me, I don't remember) stated correctly that the only problem with starting Niitymaki against the Devil's is if the Flyers win everyone will make Niity into the second coming. The defense bailed him out as much as he bailed them out. The 18 guys in front of him were really on their game last night, Niity DID NOT steal one for them, they all earned it.
How is 35 saves not stealing a game?

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02-11-2004, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capn89
How is 35 saves not stealing a game?



He made a few tough saves and looked pretty good...but I could see how he could be shelled. He stated himself after the game that he didn't see a lot of the shots. He plays so low down that I can see a lot of teams scoring from the point...but he has looked good so far, hopefully we don't put him in a position to fail too early. The kid is real humble yet seems so confident on the ice...I really hope they don't shrink his pads. Oh and we won 4-1, not 2-1 or 3-2, he made a lot of unspectacular saves also...Let's say he kept NJ at bay when they were knocking on the door in the third...he didn't steal the game.

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02-11-2004, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capn89
How is 35 saves not stealing a game?
I think to steal the game it would have been much closer.

4-1 pressure isn't nearly the same as 2-1.

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02-11-2004, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club
He made a few tough saves and looked pretty good...but I could see how he could be shelled. He stated himself after the game that he didn't see a lot of the shots. He plays so low down that I can see a lot of teams scoring from the point...but he has looked good so far, hopefully we don't put him in a position to fail too early. The kid is real humble yet seems so confident on the ice...I really hope they don't shrink his pads. Oh and we won 4-1, not 2-1 or 3-2, he made a lot of unspectacular saves also...Let's say he kept NJ at bay when they were knocking on the door in the third...he didn't steal the game.
He definitely didn't see a lot of the shots. But his positioning is why he deserves credit for making the stops...something he's worked on hard with Lemelin. However, he gave up FAR too many fat rebounds and the Devils didn't capitalize due to the strong effort from the guys in front of him. Give him a year to learn how to control those rebounds and he can be very, very good.
Anyone else notice how big he shows his five-hole to the shooter trying to bait him into shooting for it?? Show it to 'em, then close it..hahah!

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02-11-2004, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dykhuis26
Show it to 'em, then close it..hahah!
His up and down movement with the butterfly is extremely impressive. On his rebound control though, I'm not sure that it's really any worse than Robert Esche's, and perhaps even slightly better.

He's 23 and extremely coachable, there may still be time for him to correct that flaw in his game.

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02-11-2004, 11:40 AM
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A few more games for Niity

yah with the burke trade done and Esche still injured for a bit, niity
will see some games. that is a good situation for him. he has shown he has the goods, and its nice to have another goalie.

the situation gets really strange with Malek. Oh well better than having no depth in net.

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02-11-2004, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonces
His up and down movement with the butterfly is extremely impressive. On his rebound control though, I'm not sure that it's really any worse than Robert Esche's, and perhaps even slightly better.

He's 23 and extremely coachable, there may still be time for him to correct that flaw in his game.
Of the three games he has played, his rebounds handled very well except in the New Jersey game. In fact, I was very impressed with that in the first two, how he pretty much swallowed everything up... the rebounds against the devils could be due to the fact, as stated, that he didnt see all the shots... but at least he was in position for the puck to hit him.

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02-11-2004, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
If Esche is going to become a true #1 goalie next year like I believe he will, then I would prefer to have Burke backing himup than Frank. As a true #1 I'd like to see Esche play in 60-65 games next year.

If that's the case, then it makes more sense to have Frank play 60-65 games with the Phantoms, and play for them in the playoffs.

Then bring him up the following year.
True, but for right now, he's playing well enough to play every other game, with Burke.

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02-11-2004, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers26
True, but for right now, he's playing well enough to play every other game, with Burke.
and if he continues to play this well, he will continue to play games.

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02-11-2004, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
and if he continues to play this well, he will continue to play games.
I heard he's headed down, and Little will be the backup, until Esche gets back.

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02-11-2004, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Of the three games he has played, his rebounds handled very well except in the New Jersey game.
I think overall Niitty gives up less rebounds than Esche does.I think the 2 of them will work out well together at some point in the future (assuming we don't trade one of them away for Brett Hull or some other aging scorer!)
I hope Niity stays up and shares starts with Burke, with the way he's played he really should get a few more oppertunities.

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02-11-2004, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonces
I think to steal the game it would have been much closer.

4-1 pressure isn't nearly the same as 2-1.
The reason it wasn't much closer was because of Nittymaki's great play.

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02-11-2004, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fla.Flyer.Fan
I think overall Niitty gives up less rebounds than Esche does.I think the 2 of them will work out well together at some point in the future (assuming we don't trade one of them away for Brett Hull or some other aging scorer!)
I hope Niity stays up and shares starts with Burke, with the way he's played he really should get a few more oppertunities.
The way Little played in his last game, it would be a terrible idea to have him backup Burke until Esche is back.

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02-11-2004, 03:00 PM
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I agree.....I just don't know what that has to do with my post that you qouted

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02-11-2004, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capn89
How is 35 saves not stealing a game?
The same way the Flyers can put 40+ on a second tier goaltender and get one goal. Hot goaltending and good defense. Out of those 35 how many were quality shots? How many were just thrown in his direction? He stopped about 5 quality and looked real good doing it. Hackett was a sieve and Niitymaki is not. Hextall won his first four in a more offensive era. How many cups did he win?

If you would like to remain blind to the play of the team then this argument is cyclical. Niitymaki is a great piece of the puzzle that the Flyers will have for years to come, but no goaltender steals Cups, teams do.

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02-11-2004, 03:19 PM
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For the rest of Esche's injury, I say rotate Niittymaki and Burke unless one proves incapable of splitting the time. Then see what happens when Esche returns.

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02-11-2004, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan
For the rest of Esche's injury, I say rotate Niittymaki and Burke unless one proves incapable of splitting the time. Then see what happens when Esche returns.
Ditto!! I really don't want to see Burke be the "#1 guy" while Esche is out.

p.s. sorry capn89, I said I didn't want Niitti to be sent down, obviously if he was, Little would come up as the back up!

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02-11-2004, 03:36 PM
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I don't think that there is a goaltending contrivery yet. Esche has earned the #1 spot for right now and with the trade to get Burke he has to at least be the backup. I think that it would be better for Frank to go back to the Phantoms rather than be a backup on the Flyers and get as many games in as possible so he can continue to get better.

now if for some reason Esche can't come back healthy this year, then I think that you let Burke and Niittymaki fight it out because Burke has earned nothing as far as the Flyers go.

as good as Niittymaki has looked we can't overlook what Esche has done last year and this year.

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