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Old
05-11-2008, 12:25 PM
  #51
Nitehowl
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
you should read this mister skittle
Originally Posted by kachino82 View Post
Bob Gainey became general manager of the Montreal Canadiens (May 2003).

John Ferguson Jr. became general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs (August 2003).


This tells alot...considering Toronto had more talent in 03 that what Houle the Foule left for Gainey.

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Old
05-11-2008, 12:25 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by dlandry77 View Post
General Mangers with Stanely Cups
Brian Burke, Anaheim
1
Lou Lamoriello, New Jersey
3
Ken Holland, Detroit
2
Bob Gainey, Montreal
1
Jim Rutherford, Carolina
1
Glen Sather, New York Rangers
5
Cliff Fletcher, Toronto
1 in 1967 or earlier

Jay Feaster, Tampa Bay
1

Hockey news voted Bob Gainey 4th out of 30 GM's in the league not bad I say. So 7 GM's have cups in the last 25 years out of 30, sorry Cliff can't be included on this one. We all know how bad Tampa messed up there sweet situtaion.

Bob is awesome get over it.
Rutherford fourth? Sather, Fletcher, Feaster.. Pretty weak list, IMO.

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05-11-2008, 12:28 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jericho99 View Post
Isn't that how Montreal got Guy Carboneau? Asking for permission to talk to him from Dallas?

I'm sure moves like this happen alot, they just aren't magnified as much because it's Toronto.

I'd say Gary Roberts was a pretty good UFA signing. So was Curtis Joseph,Ed Belfour, Joe Nieuwendyk, Steve Thomas.
I agree people talk with other teams. But not every team in the league. The leafs need a vision for a club which they don't have. The Leafs are run like a corporation to give the most to its shareholders and not out of its hockey club. Bob had a vision to get Guy as a coach for the Montreal Canadiens. He is surrounded around people that give him the talent he needs. He has made Montreal profitable every year, he has hired 3 awesome coach's in Kirk Muller, Doug Jarvis and Guy Carboneau. A GM does not just makes trades and signs free agents he is the driving force of which the team is built.

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Old
05-11-2008, 12:30 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Rutherford fourth? Sather, Fletcher, Feaster.. Pretty weak list, IMO.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...-rankings.html

Can you read, General Mangers with Stanely Cups
This is the list of rankings, those have no rankings I am just illustrating who has Stanely Cups to there names as a General Manger. Bob is ranked 4th, get over it.

Feaster is actually ranked last in the list

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Old
05-11-2008, 12:34 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by dlandry77 View Post
I agree people talk with other teams. But not every team in the league. The leafs need a vision for a club which they don't have. The Leafs are run like a corporation to give the most to its shareholders and not out of its hockey club. Bob had a vision to get Guy as a coach for the Montreal Canadiens. He is surrounded around people that give him the talent he needs. He has made Montreal profitable every year, he has hired 3 awesome coach's in Kirk Muller, Doug Jarvis and Guy Carboneau. A GM does not just makes trades and signs free agents he is the driving force of which the team is built.
They haven't done that. How you went from four or five to every team in the league.. I don't know.

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05-11-2008, 12:35 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Yup, pretty much. It's no amazing feat.

Toronto should try and emulate Montreal's entire situation when they hired Gainey, post-Houle in 2003.. Just getting Gainey or another big name like Burke isn't going to help.
How about this new post-Fergie Jr Leafs regime?? Gotta love how they're playing Clemmenson between the pipes instead of their so-called goalie of the future, Justin Pogge. Rot on that bench Pogge! Nice long-term vision Leafs!!

Habs have a better past, better present, and better future than the Leafs.

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05-11-2008, 12:38 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
They haven't done that. How you went from four or five to every team in the league.. I don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitehowl View Post
Bob Gainey became general manager of the Montreal Canadiens (May 2003).

John Ferguson Jr. became general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs (August 2003).[/I]

This tells alot...considering Toronto had more talent in 03 that what Houle the Foule left for Gainey.
Skittles, you should read this IMO

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Old
05-11-2008, 12:39 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Six years to build a contender..

What NHL GM do you think can't do that? There are only a few.
LOL how about JFJ? He was given the same time and look at the leafs situation! IT's also been pointed out he had more to work with at the time, and made bad decisions locking players into inflated NTC contracts.

The more you post, the more it sounds like you have NO CLUE what you're talking about.


Anyone can build a contender? Then how come every team in the league is not a contender if it's as simple as you say?

Take a step back and take off your blue and white glasses and realize that Bob Gainey is a very above average GM. He already has a stanley cup under his belt. It's already been pointed out JFJ and Gainey were hired months apart, and look at the difference.

The talent you mention Gainey losing was through reentry waivers, expansion draft, locker room cancer, etc.

Just stop trolling, you're clearly just a jealous leaf fan spewing garbage about something you know nothing about.

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Old
05-11-2008, 12:39 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
How about this new post-Fergie Jr Leafs regime?? Gotta love how they're playing Clemmenson between the pipes instead of their so-called goalie of the future, Justin Pogge. Rot on that bench Pogge! Nice long-term vision Leafs!!.
OK.. Did you want me to disagree with you?

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Old
05-11-2008, 12:39 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Um.. Last year he would not be anywhere near a wanted GM. He gave up guys like Beauchemin, Hainsey, and Rebeiro for nothing. He had bums like Kovalev, Niinimaa, and Samsonov on the roster. His prospects hadn't done much yet, AK was considered a bust. His team didn't make the playoffs..

I didn't put Gainey down intentionally, the Habs organization should be praised for sticking with him in the long run. He had five years , no interference and several mistakes in building this team. They're are just better guys.
well we did finish 1st in the conference this year, so he must have done something right.

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Old
05-11-2008, 12:41 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Six years to build a contender..

What NHL GM do you think can't do that? There are only a few.
No GM other than David Poile, Don Waddell and Doug Risebrough have build a team from scratch and who are still in place as of now. New GM inherits the team from the former GM and every GM works with different constraints... (Hi! My name is Captain Obvious!)

- Ken Holland (1998-...)
- Lou Lamoriello (1987-...)
- Darcy Regier (1997-...)
- Jim Rutherford (1994-...)
- David Poile (1998-...)
- Doug Risebrough (2000-...)
- Doug Wilson (2003-...)
- Bob Gainey (2003-...)
- George Mcphee (1997-...)
- Glen Sather (2000-...)

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Old
05-11-2008, 12:43 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Also what makes you think talking to everyone isn't a good idea?

And no one GM has turned the Leafs down yet, the teams they're until contract have.

BTW, Gainey is a poor GM. He has time, give any GM in the league the time Gainey had and you'd see results.
Yeah, I'm sure he is.

This team was just marvelous when he took over. And no, I don't think many GM's can take their team from 10th to 1st in the East in one year.

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Old
05-11-2008, 12:44 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by kachino82 View Post
No GM other than David Poile, Don Waddell and Doug Risebrough have build a team from scratch and who are still in place as of now. New GM inherits the team from the former GM and every GM works with different constraints... (Hi! My name is Captain Obvious!)

- Ken Holland (1998-...)
- Lou Lamoriello (1987-...)
- Darcy Regier (1997-...)
- Jim Rutherford (1994-...)
- David Poile (1998-...)
- Doug Risebrough (2000-...)
- Doug Wilson (2003-...)
- Bob Gainey (2003-...)
- George Mcphee (1997-...)
- Glen Sather (2000-...)
Hey look, all these guys had very good teams at one point of their tenure too..

Thanks for helping me prove my point.

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05-11-2008, 12:47 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Hey look, all these guys had very good teams at one point of their tenure too..

Thanks for helping me prove my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by centrehice View Post
LOL how about JFJ? He was given the same time and look at the leafs situation! IT's also been pointed out he had more to work with at the time, and made bad decisions locking players into inflated NTC contracts.

The more you post, the more it sounds like you have NO CLUE what you're talking about.


Anyone can build a contender? Then how come every team in the league is not a contender if it's as simple as you say?

Take a step back and take off your blue and white glasses and realize that Bob Gainey is a very above average GM. He already has a stanley cup under his belt. It's already been pointed out JFJ and Gainey were hired months apart, and look at the difference.

The talent you mention Gainey losing was through reentry waivers, expansion draft, locker room cancer, etc.

Just stop trolling, you're clearly just a jealous leaf fan spewing garbage about something you know nothing about.
read this!! you chocolate skittle

or you are too much fond of your blue and white colored glasses?

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Old
05-11-2008, 12:53 PM
  #65
Kachino
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Hey look, all these guys had very good teams at one point of their tenure too..

Thanks for helping me prove my point.
What a good GM for you? A guy who turns things around in one year and can't keep the team up afterwards? Mr. Quick Fix? Well if you wish that for the Maple Leafs then kudos to you.

- Ken Holland (1998-...) kept the Red Wings on top of the league! That's a huge thing considering free agency or salary cap.
- Lou Lamoriello (1987-...) build the Devils
- Darcy Regier (1997-...) build the current Sabres, imagine him with no budget constraints!
- Jim Rutherford (1994-...) build the Hurricanes
- David Poile (1998-...) build the Predators
- Doug Risebrough (2000-...) build the Wild
- Doug Wilson (2003-...) kept the Sharks on top of the league
- Bob Gainey (2003-...) turned things around in Montreal
- George Mcphee (1997-...) went through tough times in Washington but the future looks super bright...
- Glen Sather (2000-...) Remember the Rangers filled with washout superstars vs the Rangers now?

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Old
05-11-2008, 01:06 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Six years to build a contender..

What NHL GM do you think can't do that? There are only a few.
I agree with you. Even though a fair number of Habs fans will disagree with me, I haven't been happy with a lot of Bob's moves either. A lot of the good moves Bob made were based on luck. He didn't know Huet would be that good when he traded for him. He offered Souray, Hamrlik's contract. Souray turned that contract down though. He also made some bad moves to me such as trading Ribiero, Huet, Rivet, and Samsonov etc.

Another good point you brought up is that the Habs benefited by being in a cap era. We don't know if Bob would have been able to turn the Habs around if we were still in a non-salary cap era. The reasoning is that we would have a tough time signing superstar UFAs here. I don't know if it is solely the fans, taxes, and media etc or whether Bob also plays a part of that as well.

We will know for sure in a few seasons whether Bob has done well or not. I agree six seasons is a long time, but a few more seasons should tell us for sure.

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Old
05-11-2008, 01:08 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by kachino82 View Post
What a good GM for you? A guy who turns things around in one year and can't keep the team up afterwards? Mr. Quick Fix? Well if you wish that for the Maple Leafs then kudos to you.
Nope. I guess I'm a little hesitant on calling any GM good.

Guys I think are good are:
Holland
Wilson
Lamoriello
Risebrough
Poile
Sutter
Regier
Giguere

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Old
05-11-2008, 01:09 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by kovalev47 View Post
I agree with you. Even though a fair number of Habs fans will disagree with me, I haven't been happy with a lot of Bob's moves either. A lot of the good moves Bob made were based on luck. He didn't know Huet would be that good when he traded for him. He offered Souray, Hamrlik's contract. Souray turned that contract down though. He also made some bad moves to me such as trading Ribiero, Huet, Rivet, and Samsonov etc.

Another good point you brought up is that the Habs benefited by being in a cap era. We don't know if Bob would have been able to turn the Habs around if we were still in a non-salary cap era. The reasoning is that we would have a tough time signing superstar UFAs here. I don't know if it is solely the fans, taxes, and media etc or whether Bob also plays a part of that as well.

We will know for sure in a few seasons whether Bob has done well or not. I agree six seasons is a long time, but a few more seasons should tell us for sure.
Just wondering, but how was trading Rivet a bad move? The only bad thing is that it wasn't Souray who got traded.

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Old
05-11-2008, 01:13 PM
  #69
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The Toronto team needs grit, intensity, mean players, Canadian players and skills, exept for the last one, Gainey cant do the job in Toronto.

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Old
05-11-2008, 01:16 PM
  #70
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Is this the Leafs board? First the Maurice discussion then the Sundin speculation and now this argument that's mostly about Bob Gainey but really just about how Bob's penis is bigger than Maple Leafs penis. I don't know if I'm more over Mike Ribeiro discussions or talking about the Make Believes..

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05-11-2008, 01:20 PM
  #71
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Just wondering, but how was trading Rivet a bad move? The only bad thing is that it wasn't Souray who got traded.
Well I feel Rivet is still a bit better than Gorges right now. Also Rivet brought toughness that we seemed to be lacking this playoffs. Also at the time Rivet was traded, nobody expected Gorges to play as well as he has either. Gorges was basically a throw in.

Another issue I have with that move is that trading a vet like Rivet sends the wrong message to players across the league. He played so long with the Habs but was shown a lack of respect by Bob I feel. I wonder if this is at least one of the reasons we have problems signing superstar UFAs here? I'm not saying it's the only factor, but I feel it plays a part.

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Old
05-11-2008, 01:33 PM
  #72
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is this thread still going? Gainey is staying put. Good luck with Nonis.

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Old
05-11-2008, 01:38 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Also what makes you think talking to everyone isn't a good idea?

And no one GM has turned the Leafs down yet, the teams they're until contract have.

BTW, Gainey is a poor GM. He has time, give any GM in the league the time Gainey had and you'd see results.
I'm sure the Leafs were planning their rebuilding while they kept missing the playoffs for the past 3 seasons. They're sitting there like a condemned, rotting house that hasn't quite fallen but is on the verge. One more nail pops out (Sundin) and they're odds-on favorites for the lottery pick. As for Gainey, the Habs were first in the East. When were the Maple Leafs last able to claim that distinction.

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Old
05-11-2008, 01:43 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
??

I'm saying most teams would have fired him before this year , when he suddenly becomes a good GM.

And try demonstrating patience with Richard Peddie & the MLSE on your ass. He had a great situation in Montreal.
It's an institutional defect of that corrupt franchise, from jailbird Ballard to pedophilia to money-grubbing management. Yet the suckers pay heavily for the privilege of watching a decaying corpse at the ACC. Have fun.

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Old
05-11-2008, 01:48 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Nope. I guess I'm a little hesitant on calling any GM good.

Guys I think are good are:
Holland
Wilson
Lamoriello
Risebrough
Poile
Sutter
Regier
Giguere
What exactly have these guys done other than Holland, Lamoriello and to an extent Giguere?

Wilson keeps icing a choking team that has high expectations it never lives up to.

Risebrough is alright, but Minnesota has never taken that extra step in becoming an actual contender.

Poile is limited in what he can do but still can't win a playoff series.

Sutter has never got past the 1st round other than the miracle run a few years ago.

Regier lost almost all of his key players and could not sign Vanek before a team like the Oilers offered him a huge contract, ****ing them over.

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