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Old
05-13-2008, 12:27 PM
  #126
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Yeah I don't get it. If a GM has a job with another team...then why are the Leafs even bothering to ask them??

I'm sure Gainey would rather be in Montreal where he has built a solid team as opposed to going to Toronto where he would have to start from scratch again. The Leafs suck and will suck for the next 5 years.

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05-13-2008, 01:21 PM
  #127
Karl Pilkington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albathegreat View Post
The year Toronto brought Quinn in for 1998 and the Leafs went on to the Eastern Conference final was a younger team with home grown talent.

Lonny Bohonos
Tomas Kaberle
Danny Markov
Sergei Berezin
Mike Johnson
Fredrik Modin
Steve Thomas (the Leafs drafted him)
Alyn McCauley (played in St.Johns, debuted with the Leafs)
Todd Warriner (St.Johns then debuted as a rookie with Leafs)
Yannick Tremblay
Adam Mair

All these guys were home grown
What's your point? Your comparison is only valid if the Habs trade away all their picks and prospects over the next five years.

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05-13-2008, 01:54 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CristoHuet View Post
What's your point? Your comparison is only valid if the Habs trade away all their picks and prospects over the next five years.
I was just saying that the 98 team was a home grown team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CristoHuet View Post
Not really.. we homegrow talent from within our farm system. From 98-04 the Leafs would play the same song and dance every year at trade deadline and trade away whatever picks they needed to for some rental action.

The salary cap sure does make it a little harder to throw money at your problems... .
All teams that think they have a chance will eventually offer up picks and draft picks so whenever Gainey feels this team has a shot at the cup I am pretty sure he will move picks/prospects when that time comes.

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Old
05-13-2008, 06:42 PM
  #129
Watsatheo
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Here's a needlessly long post about Gainey and what he did in Montreal. He had 4 off seasons and seasons to do his work. Technically, there's one year left in the 5 year plan as he couldn't do anything in the lockout year.

Bob Gainey was hired as Executive Vice President and General Manager in June 2003.

Montreal Canadiens BEFORE Gainey.

2002/2003 82 games 30 wins 35 losses 17 ties/otl 77 points

Roster:(no order)

Forwards
Saku Koivu
Richard Zednik
Yanic Perreault
Jan Bulis
Andreas Dackell
Donald Audette
Oleg Petrov
Joe Juneau
Randy McKay
Chad Kilger
Niklas Sundstrom
Mariusz Czerkawski
Bill Lindsay
Gordie Dwyer
Sylvain Blouin


Defensemen
Andrei Markov
Patrice Brisebois
Craig Rivet
Patrick Traverse
Stephane Quintal
Karl Dykhuis
Francis Bouillon
Sheldon Souray (didn't play this season)

Goalies
Jose Theodore
Mathieu Garon


Top Prospects in system:
Mike Ribeiro
Mike Komisarek
Francois Beauchemin
Ron Hainsey
Chris Higgins
Tomas Plekanec
Jozef Balej
Alex Perezhogin
Marcel Hossa
Michael Ryder
Duncan Milroy
Konstantin Korneyev


FIRST Season of Gainey:

2003/2004 82 games 41 wins 30 losses 11 ties/otl 93 points

Moves
-Signed Pierre Dagenais (free agent from Florida)
-claimed Steve Begin of waivers
-loses Kilger on waivers
-Gets rid of Donald Audette
-Rangers traded Alexei Kovalev to Montreal for Josef Balej and a 2nd round pick in 2004 (Bruce Graham).
-Minnesota traded Jim Dowd to Montreal for a 4th round pick in 2004 (Julien Sprunger).
-Los Angeles traded Radek Bonk and Cristobal Huet to Montreal for Matthieu Garon and a 3rd round pick (Paul Baier).
-Signed Yann Danis

Roster:(no order)

Forwards
Alex Kovalev
Mike Ribeiro
Michael Ryder
Saku Koivu
Richard Zednik
Yanic Perreault
Jan Bulis
Pierre Dagenais
Niklas Sundstrom
Joe Juneau
Steve Begin
Jason Ward
Andreas Dackell
Jim Dowd
Darren Langdon

Defensemen
Andrei Markov
Craig Rivet
Mike Komisarek
Sheldon Souray
Patrice Brisebois
Francis Bouillon
Stephane Quintal

Goalies
Jose Theodore
Mathieu Garon

Top prospects
Andrei Kostitsyn
Maxim Lapierre
Ryan O'Byrne
Jaroslav Halak
Yann Danis
Christopher Higgins
Tomas Plekanec
Francois Beauchemin
Ron Hainsey
Alex Perezhogin
Marcel Hossa
Duncan Milroy
Konstantin Korneyev

LOCKOUT YEAR of Gainey

2004/2005 ------------------------------

Moves
-Loses Beauchemin to waivers as he wanted him to play in Hamilton. Caused NHL to implement rule that players can be sent down without going on waivers.

Prospect list
Kyle Chipchura
Alex Emelin
Mikhail Grabovski
Mark Streit (old but drafted in 04)
Andrei Kostitsyn
Maxim Lapierre
Ryan O'Byrne
Jaroslav Halak
Yann Danis
Christopher Higgins
Tomas Plekanec
Ron Hainsey
Alex Perezhogin
Marcel Hossa
Duncan Milroy
Konstantin Korneyev


SECOND Season of Gainey

2005/2006 82 games 42 wins 31losses 9 otl 93 points

Moves
-Signed Mathieu Dandenault
-September 30 2005: To New York Rangers: Marcel Hossa
To Montreal Canadiens: Garth Murray
- Lost Hainsey on recall waivers
-March 8, 2006 : To Colorado Avalanche: Jose Theodore
To Montreal Canadiens : David Aebischer
-March 9, 2006: To Montreal Canadiens : Todd Simpson
To Chicago Blackhawks : 6th round pick in 2006 (Chris Auger)

Roster:(no order)

Forwards
Alexander Perezhogin
Christopher Higgins
Tomas Plekanec
Alex Kovalev
Mike Ribeiro
Michael Ryder
Jan Bulis
Steve Begin
Saku Koivu
Pierre Dagenais
Radek Bonk
Richard Zednik
Niklas Sundstrom
Aaron Downey
Garth Murray

Defensemen
Andrei Markov
Sheldon Souray
Craig Rivet
Mike Komisarek
Mark Streit
Mathieu Dandenault
Francis Bouillon
Todd Simpson

Goalies
Cristobal Huet
David Aebischer

Top Prospects
Carey Price
Guillaume Latendresse
Maxim Lapierre
Andrei Kostitsyn
Sergei Kostitsyn
Kyle Chipchura
Alex Emelin
Matt D'Agostini
Mikhail Grabovski
Ryan O'Byrne
Jaroslav Halak
Yann Danis
Konstantin Korneyev
Phillipe Paquet
JT Wyman

THIRD season of Gainey *worst season statistically as Habs GM. Missed playoffs for the first time under his rein despite having the 7th most wins in the Eastern conference. Went through losing his daughter.

2006/2007 82 games 42 wins 34 losses 6 otl 90 points

Moves
-July 12, 2006: To Montreal Canadiens : Mike Johnson
To Phoenix Coyotes : 4th round pick (Vladimir Ruzicka) in 2007
-July 12, 2006: To Washington Capitals : Richard Zednik
To Montreal Canadiens : 3rd round pick (Olivier Fortier) in 2007
- Signed Sergei Samsonov
-September 30, 2006: To Dallas Stars: Mike Ribeiro and a 6th round pick in 2008 To Montreal Canadiens : Janne Niinimaa and a 5th round pick (Andrew Conboy) in 2007
- Claimed Patrick Traverse off waivers
- December 15, 2006: To Montreal Canadiens : Mathieu Biron
To San Jose Sharks : Patrick Traverse
-Claimed Leighton of waivers
- February 25, 2007: To San Jose Sharks : Craig Rivet and a 5th round pick in 2008 To Montreal Canadiens : Josh Gorges and 1st round pick in 2007 (Max Pacioretty)
-Traded 7th round pick to Rangers for Ryan Russell
-Traded Leighton to Carolina for a 7th round pick in 2007 (Scott Kishel)


Roster: (no order)

Forwards
Guillaume Latendresse
Maxim Lapierre
Christopher Higgins
Alexander Perezhogin
Garth Murray
Tomas Plekanec
Michael Ryder
Sergei Samsonov
Steve Begin
Radek Bonk
Aaron Downey
Mike Johnson
Saku Koivu
Alex Kovalev

Defensemen
Andrei Markov
Mark Streit
Mike Komisarek
Sheldon Souray
Mathieu Dandenault
Janne Niinimaa
Francis Bouillon
Josh Gorges

Goalies
Cristobal Huet
David Aebischer
Jaroslav Halak

Top Prospects
Carey Price
Andrei Kostitsyn
Sergei Kostitsyn
David Fischer
Pavel Valentenko
Ben Maxwell
Ryan White
Kyle Chipchura
Alex Emelin
Matt D'Agostini
Mikhail Grabovski
Ryan O'Byrne
Jaroslav Halak
Konstantin Korneyev
Phillipe Paquet
JT Wyman

FOURTH season with Gainey

2007/2008 82 games 47 wins 25 losses 10 otl 104 points

Moves
-June 16, 2007 : To Chicago Blackhawks : Sergei Samsonov
To Montreal Canadiens : Jassen Cullimore and Tony Salmelainen
-Bought out both Jassen Cullimore and Tony Salmelainen
-Signed Roman Hamrlik
-Signed Bryan Smolinski
-Signed Tom Kostopoulous
-Signed Patrice Brisebois
-Put Garth Murray on waivers and loses him on reentry waivers
-Signed Brock Trotter
-To Washington: Cristobal Huet To Montreal: 2009 2nd Round Pick
-To Canadiens: Brett Engelhardt To Red Wings: Francis Lemieux
-Traded Cory Urqhart to Phoenix for Olivier Latendresse

Roster: (no order)

Forwards
Alex Kovalev
Tomas Plekanec
Saku Koivu
Andrei Kostitsyn
Christopher Higgins
Michael Ryder
Sergei Kostitsyn
Guillaume Latendresse
Bryan Smolinski
Maxim Lapierre
Mathieu Dandenault
Tom Kostopoulos
Kyle Chipchura
Mikhail Grabovski
Steve Begin

Defensemen
Mark Streit (both f/d)
Andrei Markov
Mike Komisarek
Roman Hamrlik
Ryan O'Byrne
Josh Gorges
Francis Bouillon
Patrice Brisebois

Goalies
Carey Price
Jaro Halak

Top Prospect
Ryan McDonagh, D
Max Pacioretty, LW
Ben Maxwell, C
David Fischer, D
P.K. Subban, D
Yannick Weber, D
Mathieu Carle, D
Matt D'Agostini, RW
Alexei Yemelin, D
Brock Trotter, C
Ryan White, C
James Wyman, RW
Pavel Valentenko, D
Konstantin Korneyev, D
Greg Stewart, RW

Probably missing a bit of information, but I'm pretty sure that's a decent overall summary of what happened to the Habs under Gainey. We rebuilt only missing the playoffs once and that only by a win. He may not be the best in the business, but he is by no means 'poor'. He's top 15 for sure, despite his one bad season. One thing is for sure though, if he makes a mistake, he usually fixes it if possible.

Why was Gainey given 4 years to build a contending team? He basically told us to give him 5 years and he'll give us a contender WHEN he signed in the first place.

Even though he was technically rebuilding, the team was competing for a playoff spot and was looking better and better for the future.

Yes, he traded Ribeiro for nothing, lost Hainsey and Beauchemin for nothing, and signed Samsonov. (I don't see signing Theodore as a mistake as he was good in 04 and Huet wasn't proven and he was injured. He HAD to sign him. There is no proof that trading Huet was a mistake. There is no proof he'd have broken out of his slump that he was on before he was traded from us. We don't know what will come of the 2nd round pick yet in the 09 draft that some say will be better than 03 ).
He also traded for Kovalev, (led the Habs in points in 2 of the 3 full season he's been with the Habs. Led the Habs in points in 2 of the 3 playoffs he's participated in with the Habs as well) and kept him even after his worst season of his career in 2006/2007. Traded an unhappy and underachieving/occasionally benched Rivet for 2 pieces that look to be important parts for the future. Pacioretty is arguably our best prospect not in the NHL and Gorges is cheap, young, and arguably our 4th best defenseman last season. Acquired Huet from the Kings in the first place. We developed him into the top 15 goalie former allstar goalie he is today. Great trade as he brought us few good goalie seasons as we waited for Halak or Price to develop. Got rid of Samsonov's and Theodore's contracts. Signed Hamrlik. Also made a lot of minor deals that would only help us.

I'm pro Gainey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albathegreat View Post
Really?

Honestly... Some of you guys should worry about your own team rather than the Leafs. Your fixation about them is sickening and you post shows it.
We're bored. Draft's in over a month. Slow days at the forum. Leafs fans got a kick out of the Habs losing in the second (can't be denied as I live in Toronto and attend university here as well ) Similarly, Habs fans get a kick out of the Leafs situation and a Leafs fan coming in and suggesting Gainey is a 'poor' GM and what he accomplished can be accomplished by any GM.


Last edited by Watsatheo: 05-13-2008 at 06:54 PM.
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Old
05-13-2008, 10:56 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albathegreat View Post
The year Toronto brought Quinn in for 1998 and the Leafs went on to the Eastern Conference final was a younger team with home grown talent.

Lonny Bohonos
Tomas Kaberle
Danny Markov
Sergei Berezin
Mike Johnson
Fredrik Modin
Steve Thomas (the Leafs drafted him)
Alyn McCauley (played in St.Johns, debuted with the Leafs)
Todd Warriner (St.Johns then debuted as a rookie with Leafs)
Yannick Tremblay
Adam Mair

All these guys were home grown
Except for Kaberle, all scattered to the winds like dandelion spores. By the way, what ever happened to that useless prospect Brad Boyes.

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Old
05-13-2008, 10:58 PM
  #131
Ice Poutine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey View Post
Except for Kaberle, all scattered to the winds like dandelion spores. By the way, what ever happened to that useless prospect Brad Boyes.
I think hes scoring many goals in St-Louis right now...

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Old
05-13-2008, 11:20 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey View Post
Except for Kaberle, all scattered to the winds like dandelion spores. By the way, what ever happened to that useless prospect Brad Boyes.
Who called him useless?? You? He was a solid prospect and I don't think anybody ever said different.

San Jose traded him then Boston traded him and he is a great fit in St. Louis. Also please don't act like no other team has traded or waived a younger player and they went on to pretty good things so that comment holds no merit.

All those guys did move away like you said, most for the best though.

Your trying to edge me on and stir the pot and its not going to work.

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Old
05-14-2008, 08:50 AM
  #133
Iwishihadacup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albathegreat View Post
Who called him useless?? You? He was a solid prospect and I don't think anybody ever said different.

San Jose traded him then Boston traded him and he is a great fit in St. Louis. Also please don't act like no other team has traded or waived a younger player and they went on to pretty good things so that comment holds no merit.

All those guys did move away like you said, most for the best though.

Your trying to edge me on and stir the pot and its not going to work.
yeah... but its not like it was the only one

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Old
05-14-2008, 09:50 AM
  #134
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I wouldn't be surprised if MLSE was trying to raise Toe Blake from the dead.

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