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Old
07-16-2015, 09:09 PM
  #1
Bearbait
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Cap Space

Can someone please share where the Sabres are at with committed salaries, and how much cap space we still have to work with?

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07-16-2015, 09:10 PM
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https://hockeyscap.com/

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Old
07-16-2015, 11:19 PM
  #3
mgeise
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Assuming this roster:

Forwards
Kane - O'Reilly - Ennis
Moulson - Eichel - Girgensons
Reinhart - Larsson - McGinn
Foligno - Legwand - Gionta
extras: Deslauriers, McCormick

Defensemen
Colaiacovo - Bogosian
Weber - Ristolainen
Gorges - Pysyk
extra: Donovan

Goalies
Lehner
Johnson



They are currently at $55.8 million ($15.6 million in space) without taking into account Larsson's new contract and potential bonuses to be paid to Eichel, Girgensons, Reinhart, and Ristolainen. If you take the max potential bonuses into account, the maximum potential cap they would commit to this roster is $62.2 million ($9.2 million in space), not counting Larsson's new contract.

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07-16-2015, 11:36 PM
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Does anyone think we'll run into cap troubles after raises from the likes of Risto, Eichel, Reinhart in the near future? Also taking into account that we'll undoubtedly add another LHD in the coming years.

Would honestly hate to have to trade one of Kane/Ennis to make cap space.

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07-16-2015, 11:47 PM
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muhmuhMatt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snippit View Post
Does anyone think we'll run into cap troubles after raises from the likes of Risto, Eichel, Reinhart in the near future? Also taking into account that we'll undoubtedly add another LHD in the coming years.

Would honestly hate to have to trade one of Kane/Ennis to make cap space.
Near? No. Eventually it will be an issue though but if the Sabres can continually develop young players while moving out older, non core guys, a dynasty can be raised. Moving out an Ennis won't hurt so bad with the emergence of a Bailey and/or Fasching. There's also some built in retirees that should open things up.

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Old
07-17-2015, 06:07 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snippit View Post
Does anyone think we'll run into cap troubles after raises from the likes of Risto, Eichel, Reinhart in the near future? Also taking into account that we'll undoubtedly add another LHD in the coming years.

Would honestly hate to have to trade one of Kane/Ennis to make cap space.
I dont think so. We have Gionta, Legwand and McGinn in the next two years to possibly come off the books at like 10 million in space.

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Old
07-17-2015, 07:20 AM
  #7
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As long as there is a cap it will also be a concern however if you are lucky it will never be a problem.
After this season 5.95 could be coming off the books in Legwand and McGinn with an extra 1.5 in salary kicking in for O'Reilly
The following year we lose 5.75 from Gionta and McCormick
The following year (the dreaded Eichel/Reinhart off season) we lose 3.9 from Gorges and either lose the contract of Kane and its 5.25 cap hit or resign him to a larger contract.
Finally after the 18/19 season we shed 9.6 from Moulson and Ennis. The latter of which will be important to the short-term results of the team however he will be turning 30 early into the first year of his next contract and may have an inflated value due to playing alongside Eichel, Reinhart and O'Reilly.

All told you are looking at 28.95 in cap space to replace seven or eight players plus resign Risto, Eichel, Reinhart (the 28.95 becomes 31.__ if you factor in their ELCs) and possibly Kane. In a perfect world the cap will increase over time so that isn't a firm 29mil. Also Girgensons and possibly Foligno will need to be resigned.


Last edited by yahhockey: 07-17-2015 at 07:30 AM.
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Old
07-17-2015, 09:36 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yahhockey View Post
As long as there is a cap it will also be a concern however if you are lucky it will never be a problem.
After this season 5.95 could be coming off the books in Legwand and McGinn with an extra 1.5 in salary kicking in for O'Reilly
The following year we lose 5.75 from Gionta and McCormick
The following year (the dreaded Eichel/Reinhart off season) we lose 3.9 from Gorges and either lose the contract of Kane and its 5.25 cap hit or resign him to a larger contract.
Finally after the 18/19 season we shed 9.6 from Moulson and Ennis. The latter of which will be important to the short-term results of the team however he will be turning 30 early into the first year of his next contract and may have an inflated value due to playing alongside Eichel, Reinhart and O'Reilly.

All told you are looking at 28.95 in cap space to replace seven or eight players plus resign Risto, Eichel, Reinhart (the 28.95 becomes 31.__ if you factor in their ELCs) and possibly Kane. In a perfect world the cap will increase over time so that isn't a firm 29mil. Also Girgensons and possibly Foligno will need to be resigned.
McCormick could be LTIR this year or next year too, we could even deal his contract if need to be to a cap floor team. If Gorges declines bad he could be traded for scraps or waived in his final year.

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07-17-2015, 10:43 AM
  #9
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snippit View Post
Does anyone think we'll run into cap troubles after raises from the likes of Risto, Eichel, Reinhart in the near future? Also taking into account that we'll undoubtedly add another LHD in the coming years.

Would honestly hate to have to trade one of Kane/Ennis to make cap space.
One of the reasons I don't want to spend money long term on filler like Franson...

in 3 seasons, when Reinhart and Eichel come do for 2nd contracts.... and Kane will be coming due for a new deal, and Risto will already likely be under a big new deal... along with Lehner... it could look something like...

2018-2019
LW Cap C Cap RW Cap
Kane 6 Eichel 8 Oreilly 7.5
Moulson 5 Reinhart 8 Ennis 4.6
Girgensons 5 Larsson 3 XXXX 1
XXXX 1 XXXX 1 XXXX 1
XXXX 1
Forwards: 52.1

LD Cap RD Cap
McCabe 3 Risto 5
XXXX 2 Bogo 5.2
XXXX 2 Pysyk 4.25
XXXX 1
XXXX 1
Defense: 23.45

G Cap
Lehner 5
XXXX 1
Goalies: 6

Cap 81.55


So hopefully we can find a taker for Moulson

It also illustrates how anyone advocating for Cody Franson for more than 3 years, is cray to the cray cray


Last edited by Jame: 07-17-2015 at 11:00 AM.
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Old
07-17-2015, 12:06 PM
  #10
Doug Prishpreed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
One of the reasons I don't want to spend money long term on filler like Franson...

in 3 seasons, when Reinhart and Eichel come do for 2nd contracts.... and Kane will be coming due for a new deal, and Risto will already likely be under a big new deal... along with Lehner... it could look something like...

2018-2019
LW Cap C Cap RW Cap
Kane 6 Eichel 8 Oreilly 7.5
Moulson 5 Reinhart 8 Ennis 4.6
Girgensons 5 Larsson 3 XXXX 1
XXXX 1 XXXX 1 XXXX 1
XXXX 1
Forwards: 52.1

LD Cap RD Cap
McCabe 3 Risto 5
XXXX 2 Bogo 5.2
XXXX 2 Pysyk 4.25
XXXX 1
XXXX 1
Defense: 23.45

G Cap
Lehner 5
XXXX 1
Goalies: 6

Cap 81.55


So hopefully we can find a taker for Moulson

It also illustrates how anyone advocating for Cody Franson for more than 3 years, is cray to the cray cray
None of these salaries look unrealistic, which is scary. I guess it shows how easy it can be to get into cap trouble these days. Jeez, how are teams fitting guys with $10+ salaries on the payroll without decimating the rest of the roster?

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07-17-2015, 02:16 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Doug Prishpreed View Post
None of these salaries look unrealistic, which is scary. I guess it shows how easy it can be to get into cap trouble these days. Jeez, how are teams fitting guys with $10+ salaries on the payroll without decimating the rest of the roster?
It looks a lot different when you lay it out vs just "thinking" there will be plenty of cap space... you can cut and move the numbers around on contracts like Eichel, Reinhart, Girgensons, Risto, and Pysyk or scale the placeholders differently.... and you're STILL likely to be right up against a hypothetical cap.

Anyone want to sign Franson and then let Kane walk because of the cap?

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Old
07-17-2015, 02:24 PM
  #12
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Big problem will be the contract of Moulson, hopefully we can package him to a team needing to get to the floor or sweeten it with a draft pick/prospect so we can retain important players (if it comes to that).

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07-17-2015, 02:31 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by jvirk View Post
Big problem will be the contract of Moulson, hopefully we can package him to a team needing to get to the floor or sweeten it with a draft pick/prospect so we can retain important players (if it comes to that).
He has a NTC/NMC

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07-17-2015, 05:00 PM
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I don't think ROR will make 7.5 in 18/19.

Can someone break down how much cap space ROR will take up per season? I believe it's front-loaded, but can't find the exact numbers.

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07-17-2015, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snippit View Post
I don't think ROR will make 7.5 in 18/19.

Can someone break down how much cap space ROR will take up per season? I believe it's front-loaded, but can't find the exact numbers.
Umm 7.5

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Old
07-17-2015, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snippit View Post
I don't think ROR will make 7.5 in 18/19.

Can someone break down how much cap space ROR will take up per season? I believe it's front-loaded, but can't find the exact numbers.
Cap space can't be spread, it's always static across all years of the contract.

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07-17-2015, 05:08 PM
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Don't see Reinhart making $8 Million on his 2nd contract. Don't see Larsson and McCabe making 3 on theirs. And I could see Girgensons making a little over 4 on a bridge.

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07-17-2015, 05:51 PM
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I can't see 13 players from this years team still being here in 18/19.

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07-17-2015, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Cap space can't be spread, it's always static across all years of the contract.
My mistake, then. Thanks.

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07-17-2015, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
Don't see Reinhart making $8 Million on his 2nd contract. Don't see Larsson and McCabe making 3 on theirs. And I could see Girgensons making a little over 4 on a bridge.

And Kane and Eichel and risto could require more... Regardless
cut 5 million and your likely still right around the cap

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07-17-2015, 07:16 PM
  #21
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Few quick notes from my perspective:

Jack Eichel will probably make over 7M on his next contract, probably close to 8 (knock on wood if he's showing to be a superstar)

I think Reinhart will be around 7M or just a bit under, I don't see him being at Eichel's level and the contract will show him getting 1M-2M less per year (but same term)

I don't see McCabe and Larsson making 3M or more on their next contract, especially McCabe - I think Mark Pysyk's contract of 2 years at just over 1M per year is a good barometer of where he'll be signing around (maybe a little bit more)

ROR's contract of 7.5M kicks in next year, which is going to be a raise of 1.5M from this year's cap hit. That's going to be absolutely fine because we'll be getting the contract of Legwand off the books (3M freed up in cap space).

After 15/16 the following players are gone (more than likely):
- David Legwand (3M cap hit)
- Mike Weber (1.67)
- Colaiacovo (.9M)
- Chad johnson (1.3)

We will have plenty of cap space next year without even these guys coming off the books in the first place, but getting extensions for Risto and Zemgus will be no probable since their core pieces. If negotiations and development with Foligno go well, I don't think he'll be too pricey at all, so that'll be a good resigning.

After 16/17 - the contract of Gionta (4.25M cap hit) and McCormick (1.5M) goes away, which is definitely a significant amount of space. Idk if we'll have any core players to RESIGN that year, maybe we're players in free agency to fill in gaps, idk. But more importantly, 5.75M is freed up and maybe an extension can be given a bit early to some guys. FWIW, I'd hope we extend Evander Kane this offseason with the freed up cap space rather than waiting for the next offseason where we have Kane, Eichel, and Samson to resign!

The following season after 17/18 - the contract of Josh Gorges and his 3.9M cap hit will be gone. This is the most important offseason, considering we'll probably be resigning Evander Kane (6.5-7M cap hit), as well as Eichel and Samson.

With how far we are under the cap now, with a lot of cap dumps coming off the books in the next 1-3 seasons, I think we'll be okay if we don't overpay any of these guys. Again, this is just me thinking hypothetically that we don't resign Gionta, Gorges, Legwand, etc...

After 2018/2019 - the big contract of Matt Moulson comes off the books. This is freeing up 5M in cap space, which I'm sure is going to be distributed to the likes of Eichel and the other core pieces.

Overall, I don't think we'll be in cap trouble, but the key 2 contract IMO will be Risto and Zemgus. I hope we don't overpay them leaving us in a bit of cap trouble a couple seasons later signing other guys. I hope Risto and Zemgus both take long term deals with friendly cap hits. Both at 5M per would be sick, but anywhere in that ballpark and I'll be happy. FWIW I see Zemgus signing around 4.5-5, and Risto at around 5-5.5.

Also, I think of the cap being raised every year as it is expected to, but I won't be too liberal about it (for ex: I'm not gonna say that the cap is going up 7M every year), but I think of it as going up by 2M per year and then it's easier to calculate/estimate what our cap situation will be like!

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07-17-2015, 07:41 PM
  #22
Moskau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
And Kane and Eichel and risto could require more... Regardless
cut 5 million and your likely still right around the cap
I agree just saying.

I said that last year on the Moulson contract was going to come back and be a pain in the ass when it was signed and I was right. Oh well.

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07-17-2015, 07:47 PM
  #23
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Way to much speculation needed for future years, right now we are fine.

And for those looking to move Ennis and replace him with Bailey or Fasching, thank you for the laugh today. Neither of those players come close to Ennis skill level. Barring major injury, Ennis will be resigned.

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07-17-2015, 07:51 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvirk View Post
Few quick notes from my perspective:

Jack Eichel will probably make over 7M on his next contract, probably close to 8 (knock on wood if he's showing to be a superstar)

I think Reinhart will be around 7M or just a bit under, I don't see him being at Eichel's level and the contract will show him getting 1M-2M less per year (but same term)

I don't see McCabe and Larsson making 3M or more on their next contract, especially McCabe - I think Mark Pysyk's contract of 2 years at just over 1M per year is a good barometer of where he'll be signing around (maybe a little bit more)

ROR's contract of 7.5M kicks in next year, which is going to be a raise of 1.5M from this year's cap hit. That's going to be absolutely fine because we'll be getting the contract of Legwand off the books (3M freed up in cap space).

After 15/16 the following players are gone (more than likely):
- David Legwand (3M cap hit)
- Mike Weber (1.67)
- Colaiacovo (.9M)
- Chad johnson (1.3)

We will have plenty of cap space next year without even these guys coming off the books in the first place, but getting extensions for Risto and Zemgus will be no probable since their core pieces. If negotiations and development with Foligno go well, I don't think he'll be too pricey at all, so that'll be a good resigning.

After 16/17 - the contract of Gionta (4.25M cap hit) and McCormick (1.5M) goes away, which is definitely a significant amount of space. Idk if we'll have any core players to RESIGN that year, maybe we're players in free agency to fill in gaps, idk. But more importantly, 5.75M is freed up and maybe an extension can be given a bit early to some guys. FWIW, I'd hope we extend Evander Kane this offseason with the freed up cap space rather than waiting for the next offseason where we have Kane, Eichel, and Samson to resign!

The following season after 17/18 - the contract of Josh Gorges and his 3.9M cap hit will be gone. This is the most important offseason, considering we'll probably be resigning Evander Kane (6.5-7M cap hit), as well as Eichel and Samson.

With how far we are under the cap now, with a lot of cap dumps coming off the books in the next 1-3 seasons, I think we'll be okay if we don't overpay any of these guys. Again, this is just me thinking hypothetically that we don't resign Gionta, Gorges, Legwand, etc...

After 2018/2019 - the big contract of Matt Moulson comes off the books. This is freeing up 5M in cap space, which I'm sure is going to be distributed to the likes of Eichel and the other core pieces.

Overall, I don't think we'll be in cap trouble, but the key 2 contract IMO will be Risto and Zemgus. I hope we don't overpay them leaving us in a bit of cap trouble a couple seasons later signing other guys. I hope Risto and Zemgus both take long term deals with friendly cap hits. Both at 5M per would be sick, but anywhere in that ballpark and I'll be happy. FWIW I see Zemgus signing around 4.5-5, and Risto at around 5-5.5.

Also, I think of the cap being raised every year as it is expected to, but I won't be too liberal about it (for ex: I'm not gonna say that the cap is going up 7M every year), but I think of it as going up by 2M per year and then it's easier to calculate/estimate what our cap situation will be like!
Re: Eichel and Reinhart
I think projecting 16 million in cap space between them in 3 years is likely right on the money

Re: McCabe and Larsson
Who said that was their next contract? I was projecting 2018-19.

I agree, 2 million per year in cap growth is fair.

In three years we will be up against the cap. Guaranteed.

Sticking a tertiary player like Franson in the equation would be idiotic

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07-17-2015, 09:10 PM
  #25
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The cap will be an issue for any rip team. The real test for Murray will be who he let's go and who he allocates big dollars.

Outside of the on ice performance for the tank years, our team has been super interesting to watch and should be even more so as the team gets better. It's such a fantastic 180 from the lack of hope that the post co-captains era.

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