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PROPOSAL Tor/NYI

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Old
05-16-2008, 09:26 AM
  #1
TheFisherKing
 
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PROPOSAL Tor/NYI

Tor: McCabe, Tor 1st
NYI: Sutton, NYI 1st

McCabe needs a change of scenary, and I think he'll excel in new york, sutton is a salary dump for NY. NY can still draft wilson/boedker, leafs can now snag pietrangelo or schenn.

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05-16-2008, 10:19 AM
  #2
Chardo
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Salary dump for NY? I think you have it backwards. Sutton has 2 years and $6.5M left on his contract. McCabe has 3 years and $14.5M remaining.

You're proposing that NYI move down from pick 5 to pick 7 to "upgrade" from Sutton to McCabe. Both are age 32, but Sutton, as a stay at home defenseman, is more likely to fill his role well over the next few years than McCabe, an aging 2-way D who's production has declined steadily since turning 30. The Isles would have this aging D-man under contract until he's 35, and they would take on an additional $8M of payroll. How on earth is this a good deal for NYI?

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05-16-2008, 10:41 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardo View Post
Salary dump for NY? I think you have it backwards. Sutton has 2 years and $6.5M left on his contract. McCabe has 3 years and $14.5M remaining.

You're proposing that NYI move down from pick 5 to pick 7 to "upgrade" from Sutton to McCabe. Both are age 32, but Sutton, as a stay at home defenseman, is more likely to fill his role well over the next few years than McCabe, an aging 2-way D who's production has declined steadily since turning 30. The Isles would have this aging D-man under contract until he's 35, and they would take on an additional $8M of payroll. How on earth is this a good deal for NYI?
I'm not a McCabe fan by any means, but to not see McCabe as a minor upgrade would be short sighted. He has a big shot from the point, which would be a big shot in the arm for the 2nd worst offense in the league (scoring one more goal than CBJ). That said, because of the salaries, I'd say its closer to even and would want a 3rd rder from TOR as well.

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05-16-2008, 10:52 AM
  #4
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Yes McCabe is probably a minor upgrade over Sutton. But that's too high a price for a minor upgrade. The team is expecting a healthy Chris Campoli to do what McCabe would do, for a fraction of the cost.

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05-16-2008, 12:25 PM
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I am probably in the minority here but i would do the Deal from an Islanders perspective if you don't include the draft picks(ie McCabe for Sutton).

I would be willing to give up a 2nd rounder(Anaheims) for McCabe otherwise(nothing more). I don't subscribe to the idea that McCabe has negative value(i side more so on the side of just not much positive value)

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05-16-2008, 12:28 PM
  #6
Stephen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardo View Post
Yes McCabe is probably a minor upgrade over Sutton. But that's too high a price for a minor upgrade. The team is expecting a healthy Chris Campoli to do what McCabe would do, for a fraction of the cost.
McCabe is a minor upgrade on Sutton?

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05-16-2008, 12:36 PM
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mccabe is a MAJOR upgrade over sutton.

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05-16-2008, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardo View Post
Salary dump for NY? I think you have it backwards. Sutton has 2 years and $6.5M left on his contract. McCabe has 3 years and $14.5M remaining.

You're proposing that NYI move down from pick 5 to pick 7 to "upgrade" from Sutton to McCabe. Both are age 32, but Sutton, as a stay at home defenseman, is more likely to fill his role well over the next few years than McCabe, an aging 2-way D who's production has declined steadily since turning 30. The Isles would have this aging D-man under contract until he's 35, and they would take on an additional $8M of payroll. How on earth is this a good deal for NYI?
Its almost sad that SOME Leaf fans are still proposing McCabe to the Isles deals. And, in fact, I think we would all do wise to avoid this thread before it turns into the standard sillines.

That said, I think you are seriously underrating McCabe here. Its not that he is in decline due to age as much as he has had serious injury problems over the years. When all is said and done, he'd still be the Isles best two-way dman. I don't think he is Witt's equal in his own end - probably closer to Sutton. But, he would still be one of our best players.

One other comment with regard to $ - since the Isles seem more focused on their internal cap then the NHL cap: Sutton will earn 3 million next season. McCabe's front loaded deal pays him six million. So,if the Isles made this deal, you could forget about trying to bring in some scoring help since the Isles would rapidly go over budget.

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05-16-2008, 12:39 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattlehead View Post
mccabe is a MAJOR upgrade over sutton.

I don't actually fully agree. McCabe is a major upgrade OVERALL because he is light years beyond Sutton in terms of offensive play and (at least IMO) leadership. But, I don't see him being any better than Sutton in his own end and, for the Isles, that would be a significant issue.

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05-16-2008, 12:41 PM
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I can't believe some people think that McCabe is just a slight upgrade over Sutton.

He's miles ahead. Sutton is awful. McCabe's D isn't great, as he has gaffs, but he's an offensive d-man and produces at the other end. Sutton's supposed strength is his D, but he's prone to the same gaffs, and doesn't have anything redeeming about it.

He's just terrible.

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05-16-2008, 12:45 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedjpd View Post
I can't believe some people think that McCabe is just a slight upgrade over Sutton.

He's miles ahead. Sutton is awful. McCabe's D isn't great, as he has gaffs, but he's an offensive d-man and produces at the other end. Sutton's supposed strength is his D, but he's prone to the same gaffs, and doesn't have anything redeeming about it.

He's just terrible.
This isn't true at all. Sutton is limited, but a decent #4 dman. When he keeps his game conservative, and lets the play come to him, he is fairly effective defensive dman. The Isles were reasonably happy with him last season - especially toward the end of the year.

Its also not true that makes the same "gaffs" as McCabe. McCabe will sometimes make bad reads, and some bad choices with the puck in his own zone. Sutton's problems generally have less to do with brain cramps and more to do with his limited lateral mobility. He can get toasted to the outside by speedy forwards.

I also think you are underrating McCabe's defensive game a bit here, but that is another issue.

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05-16-2008, 12:53 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
He has a big shot from the point, which would be a big shot in the arm for the 2nd worst offense in the league (scoring one more goal than CBJ).
We had MAB and traded him for basically nothing -- I personally doubt that without a decent set up guy and a better PP than the Isles have that McCabe would do much more for the Isles offensively than MAB did.

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05-16-2008, 12:53 PM
  #13
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it took Sutton a little while to get his mojo going with the islanders -they kept pairing him with m.a bergeron in the beginning of the season and the pair was just dreadful

unfortunately-andy was playing his best hockey of the season when he went down to season ending injury --I believe he formed a solid pairing with Meyer at that time.

as fard as the trade idea goes --meh , I'll keep andy

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05-16-2008, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedjpd View Post
I can't believe some people think that McCabe is just a slight upgrade over Sutton.

He's miles ahead. Sutton is awful. McCabe's D isn't great, as he has gaffs, but he's an offensive d-man and produces at the other end. Sutton's supposed strength is his D, but he's prone to the same gaffs, and doesn't have anything redeeming about it.

He's just terrible.
nobody will mistake Sutton for Ray Bourque but as Darth said he is a capable #4 guy when used right. He can also double as a tough guy if you need a little muscle.

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05-16-2008, 12:54 PM
  #15
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No from Toronto. We are not looking to 'dump' McCabe.

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05-16-2008, 01:00 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo View Post
No from Toronto. We are not looking to 'dump' McCabe.
One day people will "get it". McCabe is Toronto's best defensman, no matter which child from this site argues against it. Toronto is not interested in taking your garbage even to move up 2 spots if it costs us our best defensman.

The Islanders are not trading that pick anyways because they want Filatov

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05-16-2008, 01:03 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by thedjpd View Post
I can't believe some people think that McCabe is just a slight upgrade over Sutton.

He's miles ahead. Sutton is awful. McCabe's D isn't great, as he has gaffs, but he's an offensive d-man and produces at the other end. Sutton's supposed strength is his D, but he's prone to the same gaffs, and doesn't have anything redeeming about it.

He's just terrible.

I actually like Sutton on our blueline with Witt....I do not think Sutton is terrible at all, in fact I think he (Like Darth said) is a good 4th/5th/6th D-men. He has a mean streak and threw his body around a lot last year. Will McCabe be an upgrade on the ice...perhaps, will McCabe handcuff the Isles salary cap wise, ABSOLUTELY....in closing you can keep McCabe and his inflated contract.

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05-16-2008, 01:04 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
One day people will "get it". McCabe is Toronto's best defensman, no matter which child from this site argues against it. Toronto is not interested in taking your garbage even to move up 2 spots if it costs us our best defensman.

The Islanders are not trading that pick anyways because they want Filatov
Sutton is not "garbage" and if McCabe is your best dman, you are in big, big trouble.

He may have outplayed Kaberle down the stretch - but Kaberle's overall game is elite. He is arguably a top 10 dman in the NHL. And, McCabe is not in that class overall.

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05-16-2008, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Sutton is not "garbage" and if McCabe is your best dman, you are in big, big trouble.

He may have outplayed Kaberle down the stretch - but Kaberle's overall game is elite. He is arguably a top 10 dman in the NHL. And, McCabe is not in that class overall.
Some beg to differ. There is a reason that the Leafs longest losing streaks come when McCabe is injured and then we go on to play .500 hockey was he returns.

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05-16-2008, 01:16 PM
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No from Toronto. We are not looking to 'dump' McCabe.

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05-16-2008, 01:17 PM
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Some beg to differ. There is a reason that the Leafs longest losing streaks come when McCabe is injured and then we go on to play .500 hockey was he returns.

This is all just personal opinion, of course, but I just don't see McCabe in that class. He can play at an elite level for stretches, but he is simply not effective enough in his own end to be considered a top 10 dman in the NHL. I wouldn't even consider him top 15.

BTW, with two elite dmen on your blueline, one has to wonder why Toronto missed the playoffs three seasons in a row. In the last season that McCabe and Kaberle were both healthy, Toronto let in more goals than all but five teams in the NHL. The fact is, Toronto has been in the bottom third of the league in team defense for three consecutive seasons. Even in the playoffs years, you guys were often botton half of the league. In fact, Toronto has been in the top third of the leage in team defense something like once in the last six or seven seasons.

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05-16-2008, 01:23 PM
  #22
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No from a Islander fan.
How about

Sutton
Isles 1st

4

Mccabe
Tor 1st 2008
Tor 1st 2009
Tor 1st 2010

Sutton isnt a salary dump and is a solid stay at home dman when healthy

Mccabe is not quite a salary dump either if u need a PP qb if not then he is a dump for toronto

To be more realistic
Sutton
4
Mccabe
Tor 3rd round pick

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05-16-2008, 01:24 PM
  #23
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Personally, I could see the Isles doing something like the original offer at the draft IF Filatov is gone, and the Isles are high enough on somebody they think will be there two picks later. Personally, I would prefer the Isles to take the best dman at that point, but if the Isles are thinking in a different direction it makes sense.

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05-16-2008, 01:25 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploplopfizzfizz View Post
No from a Islander fan.
How about

Sutton
Isles 1st

4

Mccabe
Tor 1st 2008
Tor 1st 2009
Tor 1st 2010

Remember when a couple (I emphasize that it was only a couple) of us were asking for Okposo for McCabe? This is the reverse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploplopfizzfizz View Post

Sutton isnt a salary dump and is a solid stay at home dman when healthy

Mccabe is not quite a salary dump either if u need a PP qb if not then he is a dump for toronto
McCabe isn't close to being a dump at all.

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Originally Posted by Ploplopfizzfizz View Post
To be more realistic
Sutton
4
Mccabe
Tor 3rd round pick
Oy vay.

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Old
05-16-2008, 01:27 PM
  #25
Darth Milbury
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Remember when a couple (I emphasize that it was only a couple) of us were asking for Okposo for McCabe? This is the reverse.

Yup.

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