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Levitt Report on State of NHL

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Old
02-12-2004, 02:07 PM
  #1
Luigi Lemieux
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Levitt Report on State of NHL

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=71945

not sure if this was posted, but i'm glad that an independent source is making this public. it seems the nhl did indeed lose 273 million last year. i wonder what the nhlpa's response to this will be.

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02-12-2004, 02:08 PM
  #2
Joe T Choker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=71945

not sure if this was posted, but i'm glad that an independent source is making this public. it seems the nhl did indeed lose 273 million last year. i wonder what the nhlpa's response to this will be.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...put that in your pipe and smoke it Player's Union

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02-12-2004, 02:18 PM
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And this is the players unions fault how?...Allot of people keep blaming the players for the high salaries...It's not thier fault, it is the stupid managemenet of some teams who offers the players this kind of money. Owners keep losing money because the people they hire don't use proper money management. If someone offered me 10 million, I am not going to say "no I don't deserve that much"...I am going to sign the contract as fast as I can.

I do think player salaries are to high but it is the managements fault plain and simple.

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Old
02-12-2004, 02:22 PM
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The league is boned, no matter how you look at it. I don't see either side having a moment of clairity like the MLB just before they went on strike either, both sides are too greedy for that.

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02-12-2004, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Bobby Clarke
And this is the players unions fault how?...Allot of people keep blaming the players for the high salaries...It's not thier fault, it is the stupid managemenet of some teams who offers the players this kind of money. Owners keep losing money because the people they hire don't use proper money management. If someone offered me 10 million, I am not going to say "no I don't deserve that much"...I am going to sign the contract as fast as I can.

I do think player salaries are to high but it is the managements fault plain and simple.
The PA demanded qualified offers, which automatically add 10% onto each contract at each signing, whether the player deserves it truly, or not..

That is the biggest problem in the NHL.

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02-12-2004, 02:24 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
The league is boned, no matter how you look at it. I don't see either side having a moment of clairity like the MLB just before they went on strike either, both sides are too greedy for that.

Not wanting to lose 273 million = greedy
???

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02-12-2004, 02:25 PM
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Considering the NHL paid for this report, I wouldn't call it independant.

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Old
02-12-2004, 02:35 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
Not wanting to lose 273 million = greedy
???
The owners laid the golden eggs, but the players want to kill the golden goose, it doesn't make any sense. ie. the owners are greedy for giving out ridiculous contracts because they want to win (and hopefully make a ton of money), but the players don't want to see that these large contracts are killing the league (in it's current form). Someone in going to have to give in, but which side will it be? Both sides have to realize for the NHL to survive, that they have to work together and fix this mess.

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02-12-2004, 02:37 PM
  #9
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lies lies all lies.

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Old
02-12-2004, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douggy
Considering the NHL paid for this report, I wouldn't call it independant.
I'm sure the NHL would let the NHLPA pay for half if they wanted to.

This was done by Arthur Levitt who's not a guy that would fix the results in favor of the NHL owners.

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02-12-2004, 02:38 PM
  #11
Joe T Choker
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Players don't trust ownership, Owners don't trust the players and now have the ammo with this report to go along with it, the fans don't trust either of them...who wins?

hehehe

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Old
02-12-2004, 02:45 PM
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What do you expect from a pig, but a grunt?

Is anyone here shocked? Surprised? Amazed?

We all knew this was coming and it will do absolutely nothing to change the CBA negotiations. The players do not trust the owners or anyone they hire to tell the truth about money. Period.

There are some teams that are undoubtedly bleeding to death and need some help and fast. There are others who are almost for sure pocketing money somewhere along the way and not reporting it.

Bellman's job as commisionner is to represent tthe owners. So what he has done to unnify them is blame the players. The owners are indeed unified against the players. Great. The problem is it's not all the players fault, nor can the players fix everything that is wrong. Until Bettman gets the spine necessary to deal with owners like Dolan, Illitch, Hicks and Wirtz nothing will change. Because if you think guys like that care about whether hockey survives in any of the trouble cities, boy are you in for a surprise.

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Old
02-12-2004, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
The PA demanded qualified offers, which automatically add 10% onto each contract at each signing, whether the player deserves it truly, or not..

That is the biggest problem in the NHL.
Only players who make less than the league average receive the 10% raise in qualifying offers.

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02-12-2004, 02:50 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malefic74
What do you expect from a pig, but a grunt?

Is anyone here shocked? Surprised? Amazed?

We all knew this was coming and it will do absolutely nothing to change the CBA negotiations. The players do not trust the owners or anyone they hire to tell the truth about money. Period.

There are some teams that are undoubtedly bleeding to death and need some help and fast. There are others who are almost for sure pocketing money somewhere along the way and not reporting it.
.
Undoubtable there is some money being pocketed through accounting inconsitancies. But it's hard to pocket over a quarter of a billion dollars without people noticing and asking lots of questions (unles you are the Liberal party of Canada, the RCMP and a couple of Advertising firms in Hull...)

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02-12-2004, 02:50 PM
  #15
Baron Von Shark
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Here is the actual report for those interested: http://www.sjsharks.com/sharks/news/levittreport.pdf

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Old
02-12-2004, 02:54 PM
  #16
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There's already a thread about this in the BUSINESS OF HOCKEY BOARD.

Go figure.

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Old
02-12-2004, 02:55 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4
Only players who make less than the league average receive the 10% raise in qualifying offers.

And if everyone under the average keeps getting raisies, what happens to the average?

Up, up up

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Old
02-12-2004, 02:57 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
But it's hard to pocket over a quarter of a billion dollars without people noticing and asking lots of questions (unles you are the Liberal party of Canada, the RCMP and a couple of Advertising firms in Hull...)
Nice.

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Old
02-12-2004, 03:02 PM
  #19
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On Saving Hockey

Here's a terrific read with a great 'tude on the true state of the game and some unique ideas regarding rules changes and the CBA.

Enjoy!
-HckyFght!

http://www.sportsfanmagazine.com/rea..._ID=1826&new=1

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Old
02-12-2004, 03:03 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
And if everyone under the average keeps getting raisies, what happens to the average?

Up, up up
Perhaps, but do qualifiying offers exert the same inflationary pressure as UFA signings, or the rookie salary cap (which the NHLPA and player agents seem to think is the minimum basis of a deal) - Don't think so.

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Old
02-12-2004, 03:03 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4
Only players who make less than the league average receive the 10% raise in qualifying offers.
Which raises the average. So that next year, people who didn't qualify for the raise now do. Which raises the average, and now people qualify for arbitration. They get awarded raises (you can't get a lower salary in arbitration), which raises the average... "It's the Circle of Life..."

The CBA forces salaries up. There is no process by which a players salary can be lowered before they are 31, except for literally casting aside a player for nothing and letting him walk. That means that only the highest paid, most useless guys ever have this happen, because if the guy is useful, it'll hurt your team to let him go.

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Old
02-12-2004, 03:10 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douggy
Considering the NHL paid for this report, I wouldn't call it independant.
Are you insinuating that Arthur Levitt manipulated the numbers?

Who should have paid for the report? Most people won't spend many months working on something for free. Levitt insisted on being paid up front for the work. While there's no denying the money came from the league, after Levitt was paid his only obligation was to do the report; the league couldn't hold the money over his head in an attempt to influence him after he started.

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Old
02-12-2004, 03:12 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
Which raises the average. So that next year, people who didn't qualify for the raise now do. Which raises the average, and now people qualify for arbitration. They get awarded raises (you can't get a lower salary in arbitration), which raises the average... "It's the Circle of Life..."

The CBA forces salaries up. There is no process by which a players salary can be lowered before they are 31, except for literally casting aside a player for nothing and letting him walk. That means that only the highest paid, most useless guys ever have this happen, because if the guy is useful, it'll hurt your team to let him go.
Not only that, but is you don't give a player the qualifying offer, they won't sign with you at all.

What's funny is that with the current CBA, the most boring teams and the "worst" ownership are probably doing the best. Minnessota pocketed the biggest profit last year, with their tin can formulae. The Blackhawks probably made money because of Wirtz being tight with his budget. Etc.

The worst teams on the ice are the ones losing the less money... Great CBA! (Pittsburgh didn't lose money!!!)

The risks of making a loss and the opportunity of making a profit are better if you ice a low paid team (even if it's not competitive) then if you ice a good team that's trying to win the cup. Great CBA!

Hopefully that will change when the players take their heads out of the sand.

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Old
02-12-2004, 03:18 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
Which raises the average. So that next year, people who didn't qualify for the raise now do. Which raises the average, and now people qualify for arbitration. They get awarded raises (you can't get a lower salary in arbitration), which raises the average... "It's the Circle of Life..."
You leave out the old, expensive players retiring which drops the average salary. Patrick Roy was replaced at a tenth of the cost.

Also you leave out the really cheap rookies that enter the league and also lower the average salary.

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Old
02-12-2004, 04:05 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyMeatWhistle
You leave out the old, expensive players retiring which drops the average salary. Patrick Roy was replaced at a tenth of the cost.

Also you leave out the really cheap rookies that enter the league and also lower the average salary.
Yeah, but in general what he said was true. The factors he mentioned do continue to raise salaries, and you can't stop that unless you refuse to qualify guys, which creates more problems than it solves in most situations.

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