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Summer 2008: the time has come for Bob Gainey to hit a Homerun

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05-24-2008, 05:45 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I dunno, you would bet your money on : Sundin getting 85+ pts next season... or... Briere having another 95 pts season next year ?
(and I don't like Briere much btw)


sure, talent wise he's better, and in his prime I'd take him over the other two anyday... but at some point, him turning 38 has to be taken into consideration...

if you want an example that make sense, look at Shanahan, everyone wanted BG to sign him when he left the Wings, now two years later, you still want the 40 years old Shanahan ? sure, was almost a PPG his first season as a NYR, but hey! in absolute numbers, it was 62 pts - and this season he didnt even reach the 50 pts mark, while clearly losing a step...

so, Sundin was a PPG last 3, 4 or 5 season ? good for him... what are the chances he'll be a PPG player at 40 though ? (he'll be 40 in the middle of the 09-10 season - in two seasons)


Sure, if he wants to sign here, I'll take him - happily! but would I give him the same money I would give Hossa (like you said in your #2 BT ) ? ?? ? NO WAY!
You're hopeless... completely hopeless.

Sundin at 7-8 million for 2 years > Hossa at 7-8 million for 6 or 7 years.

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05-24-2008, 05:46 PM
  #152
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I still fail to see the problem with having Sundin on a short term deal even if the salary is high..... Its not gonna get you into long term cap trouble.... Its a smart move to make.
Nothing wrong with having him, definitely. It still doesnt give us a #4 D though, and we're still having problems on our 3rd line (gritt, defensive play) and not much experience in nets...

Getting Sundin means going for a long playoff run, so you don't put a bunch of rookies (we already have enough as it is on the roster), theses "holes" have to be filled, and they have to be filled first IMO if "we" want to get Sundin that will have a real impact on the team and bring us over the top.

The thing with Sundin, is that it's a short-term solution, meaning that if you fail to get a better shutdown line, a better PK, more experience to back-up our #1 goaltender, etc for the 08-09 season or the next... you just wasted time, money and energy...

and that's why guys like Briere, Drury, Gomez, etc are somewhat more interesting, simply because you know that even if you havent built a contender for the next year or two, well! they'll still be around once your team is ready for "prime time".

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You're hopeless... completely hopeless.

Sundin at 7-8 million for 2 years > Hossa at 7-8 million for 6 or 7 years.
a THIRTY EIGHT old Sundin is better than a THIRTY years old Hossa... sure, I'm hopeless...


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05-24-2008, 06:00 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Nothing wrong with having him, definitely. It still doesnt give us a #4 D though, and we're still having problems on our 3rd line (gritt, defensive play) and not much experience in nets...

Getting Sundin means going for a long playoff run, so you don't put a bunch of rookies (we already have enough as it is on the roster), theses "holes" have to be filled, and they have to be filled first IMO if "we" want to get Sundin that will have a real impact on the team and bring us over the top.

The thing with Sundin, is that it's a short-term solution, meaning that if you fail to get a better shutdown line, a better PK, more experience to back-up our #1 goaltender, etc for the 08-09 season or the next... you just wasted time, money and energy...

and that's why guys like Briere, Drury, Gomez, etc are somewhat more interesting, simply because you know that even if you havent built a contender for the next year or two, well! they'll still be around once your team is ready for "prime time".



a THIRTY EIGHT old Sundin is better than a THIRTY years old Hossa... sure, I'm hopeless...
It's called a salary cap... I sure hope you aren't an accountant or a financial planner.

And anyways if I had to win a game tommorow I'd still take Sundin. Complete player with comparable numbers to Hossa despite playing with Tucker and Ponikarovski and not Kovalchuk or Kozlov. Then again this is you I'm arguing with.

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05-24-2008, 06:09 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Nothing wrong with having him, definitely. It still doesnt give us a #4 D though,....



Which makes me think that maybe Gainey could make a deal with Chicago for one of their young D-men, say Seabrook.


With Khabibulin's contract up at the end of the season, Halak may make a very good centerpiece of a pkg to offer to Chicago. This would also give the Hawks a chance to move Khabi at or before the dealine if the opportunity were to arise.

As I recently mentioned, I believe Gainey is finally in a very good position with his young players to make some deals that would add some important pieces to the charge at being an elite team in this league.

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05-24-2008, 06:20 PM
  #155
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It's called a salary cap... I sure hope you aren't an accountant or a financial planner.

And anyways if I had to win a game tommorow I'd still take Sundin. Complete player with comparable numbers to Hossa despite playing with Tucker and Ponikarovski and not Kovalchuk or Kozlov. Then again this is you I'm arguing with.
80+ pts in four of his last 5 seasons, including a 92 and a 100 pts season and two 40+ goals seasons... while Sundin had ONE 40+ goals season in the last decade and had his last 90+ pts season 11 years ago... comparable yeah!




It would be fun though to read what kind of season you think 38 years old Sundin is going to have next year...

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Which makes me think that maybe Gainey could make a deal with Chicago for one of their young D-men, say Seabrook.


With Khabibulin's contract up at the end of the season, Halak may make a very good centerpiece of a pkg to offer to Chicago. This would also give the Hawks a chance to move Khabi at or before the dealine if the opportunity were to arise.

As I recently mentioned, I believe Gainey is finally in a very good position with his young players to make some deals that would add some important pieces to the charge at being an elite team in this league.
Agreed, and while I think Sundin is a really good player, we had more than our share of aging/declining players in the past IMO, and that's why I would prefer something like the example you gave (Seabrook)... sure, it would cost more, but hey! you get a guy that is playing VERY well while not being in his prime yet! THAT is worth it.


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05-24-2008, 07:04 PM
  #156
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Agreed, and while I think Sundin is a really good player, we had more than our share of aging/declining players in the past IMO, and that's why I would prefer something like the example you gave (Seabrook)... sure, it would cost more, but hey! you get a guy that is playing VERY well while not being in his prime yet! THAT is worth it.
Seabrook would be acquired by a trade, while the Habs could still sign Sundin also.

BTW, I am an advocate of signing Sundin, but to a one year contract at no more than either Saku or Alex are getting, $4.5 mill to $4.75 mill.

You think Sundin would be a downgrade from Smolinski, who he would ulitmately be replaceing?

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05-25-2008, 04:27 AM
  #157
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Seabrook would be acquired by a trade, while the Habs could still sign Sundin also.

BTW, I am an advocate of signing Sundin, but to a one year contract at no more than either Saku or Alex are getting, $4.5 mill to $4.75 mill.

You think Sundin would be a downgrade from Smolinski, who he would ulitmately be replaceing?
I dunno, Smokes did pretty good in the playoffs for us you know...

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05-25-2008, 05:39 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post

if you want an example that make sense, look at Shanahan, everyone wanted BG to sign him when he left the Wings, now two years later, you still want the 40 years old Shanahan ? sure, was almost a PPG his first season as a NYR, but hey! in absolute numbers, it was 62 pts - and this season he didnt even reach the 50 pts mark, while clearly losing a step...
I think at the time Gainey wanted Shanahan as much for his playoff experience, character and size as his 25 goals.

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05-25-2008, 06:11 AM
  #159
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I think at the time Gainey wanted Shanahan as much for his playoff experience, character and size as his 25 goals.
Agreed, and the idea behind getting Shanahan was good, but to put high expectations on a 37, 38 or 39 years old player ? not really, as their production can drop significantly overnight (well, almost)

If you want a fresh example of this, just remember Smokes (I know he isnt as talented as Sundin)... brought in to play on the 3rd line, and on the 2nd when needed... at the end even playing on the 4th was tough, the guy had a hard time keeping the pace - it showed...

The guy will be 38, and we could very well see Plekanec being our best C for a second year (production wise at least) for all we know... with a 6 or 7M$ 2nd line C in Sundin - and a 4.75M$ 3rd line C in Koivu... doesnt make sense much...

now if you tell me we can sign a 6M$ dollar man who we know can have another 2, 3, 4 or 5 years at 75, 80 or 90 pts... HELL YEAH!! but the same amount for a guy who's unlikely to get 80+ pts next season (last time was 7 years ago or so) ? meh...

Nothing against Sundin, gimme a 25 or 30 years old one and I take him... yesterday!

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05-25-2008, 07:49 AM
  #160
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You just compared Smolinski to Sundin???

Yikes!!!

The size difference alone at the center position would sell Sundin to me over Smolinski if the intent for next is to move forward.


Which forward that is an UFA this summer, outside of Hossa, that you would throw $6 mill to $7 mill at on a long term contract???

Demitra{32}, Satan{32}, Naslund{33}, Nagy{28}, Brunette{33}, Fedorov{37}, Holik{36}, Straka{34}, Avery{27}, Prospal{32}???


My point being this is a bad season for signing any quality UFAs to long term, highend contracts.


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05-25-2008, 07:56 AM
  #161
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Sundin could be the answer, Hossa maybe the answer, the nice part here is the Habs have options and seem to have the cap managed well, so moving forward we are in good shape...I am still pi$$ed we lost to Philly...

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05-25-2008, 12:00 PM
  #162
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Just curious here guys, if BG was to land Sundin, would any of you consider that then we could arguably have 3 #1 centres, in Sundin,Koivu,Pleks...sounds nice doesn't it...

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05-25-2008, 12:06 PM
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Sundin can handle the rough going and is still a great skater. He goes to the net and plays hard. Judging from last years performance he would be the best player available. In 5 years no, but what will Hossa's motivation be like in 3 years? Sundin between the Tittss bros would be amazing.

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05-25-2008, 03:25 PM
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Agreed, and the idea behind getting Shanahan was good, but to put high expectations on a 37, 38 or 39 years old player ? not really, as their production can drop significantly overnight (well, almost)
I would try and sign Shanahan if I was Gainey(this summer). Can use his leadership, veteran playoff performer, size and a little toughness to go along with his 24 goals. Maybe even overpay for him a little bit

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05-25-2008, 03:36 PM
  #165
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I would try and sign Shanahan if I was Gainey(this summer). Can use his leadership, veteran playoff performer, size and a little toughness to go along with his 24 goals. Maybe even overpay for him a little bit
Shanahan's best days are far behind him now, if a team can get more than 60 games out of him per season they will be lucky & chances are that he would only be 100% for less than half of those games.

IMO he is too long in the tooth to help this team.

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05-25-2008, 04:16 PM
  #166
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Shanahan's best days are far behind him now, if a team can get more than 60 games out of him per season they will be lucky & chances are that he would only be 100% for less than half of those games.

IMO he is too long in the tooth to help this team.
I agree last year before the collision with Knuble, Shanahan was playing some of his best hockey. But this year age and injuries really seemed to catch up with him. I'm not saying he's done, because he's definitely a warrior. But he definitely wouldn't be one of my top choices.

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05-25-2008, 04:19 PM
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I doubt that Gainey will have a shot with Hossa or Sundin.. So he won't try to hit the homerun... a double will be fine for me.. Brian Rolston !!!

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05-25-2008, 04:29 PM
  #168
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Sundin is never coming here. Can you actally type a post about signing Sundin with a straigt face? If you can, your delusional.

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05-25-2008, 04:39 PM
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I doubt that Gainey will have a shot with Hossa or Sundin.. So he won't try to hit the homerun... a double will be fine for me.. Brian Rolston !!!
Personally I'd love it if we ended up with only a double (Rolston)

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Sundin is never coming here. Can you actally type a post about signing Sundin with a straigt face? If you can, your delusional.
I've been watching hockey for many years and even though I agree that the chances of Sundin signing with us is quite slim.

Stranger things have happened, so until Sundin makes a decision on his future. I'm not ready to write off the possibility.

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05-25-2008, 04:50 PM
  #170
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I've been watching hockey for many years and even though I agree that the chances of Sundin signing with us is quite slim.

Stranger things have happened, so until Sundin makes a decision on his future. I'm not ready to write off the possibility.
Exactly; with Sundin I would be real disappointed if I learned that Gainey never even picked up the phone and made an offer.... I think you have to do that.... If you get turned down, well that's life.... but you have to at least explore the possibility, even if it is a slim one.

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05-25-2008, 05:13 PM
  #171
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Would Hossa score more then Sundin next year? Probably, but don't neglect the other qualities that Sundin brings. If the Habs go for Sundin, its not to sign for long term, its to win next year during their 100th anniversary. Sundin brings good size and strength down the middle that the Habs could certainly use. Sundin is a good leader, he was the Leafs captain for how long now?

It would be great to have Hossa long term but if you want to win next year, you'll have a better chance with Sundin. Old doesn't only equate to declining and mediocre, it also represents experience, wisdom and in Sundin's case..desperation to win a cup before he retires. Look at Sundin's linemates...you don't even have to play him with Kovalev, just play him with kosto and he'll score. For the longest time now, the Leafs haven't played him with quality players. Imagine him with AK and Kovalev as his linemates, he'd free up so much room for Kovalev.

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05-25-2008, 05:22 PM
  #172
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I think the most intelligent thing to do would be to sign Hossa and Kolzig. Then deal Halak + for a great two-way forward.

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05-25-2008, 05:45 PM
  #173
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A bunt that Gainey could make to add some veteren depth this summer, could be the addition of Stephen Yelle.

I wouldn't be too upset to see a group of forwards that looked like;

Plekanec/Kostitsyn/Kovalev
Sundin/Latendresse/Kostitsyn
Koivu/Higgins/Kostopolous
Yelle/Begin/Lapierre

Chipchura/Stewart

& on defense, if they could swing a deal of say Halak, Gorges & a 2nd rounder('09) for Seabrook;

Markov/Komisarek
Hamrlik/O'Bryne
Seabrook/Valentenko
Bouillon

In net:

Price/ Lalime or Kolzig

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05-25-2008, 06:06 PM
  #174
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Names are tossed around this board like tumbleweed in a gust of wind. What's missing from the discussion is HOW Gainey can hit a homerun. He may not get fat juicy pitches to swing at and has to be content with bloop singles.

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05-25-2008, 06:37 PM
  #175
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I would try and sign Shanahan if I was Gainey(this summer). Can use his leadership, veteran playoff performer, size and a little toughness to go along with his 24 goals. Maybe even overpay for him a little bit
for the other reasons maybe, but the 20+ goals, Higgins, A.Kostystin, Kovalev are already bringing it... and guys like the younger Kostystin or Latendresse could be close to 25 if they play a full season on a scoring line... so...

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