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Edm/Fla

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Old
05-21-2008, 04:53 AM
  #1
LimpDave
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Edm/Fla

Raffi Torres, Jaret Stoll, Ladislav Smid and ANA 1st 08

for

Olli Jokinen, and FLA 2nd 08





Why?


Edmonton receives:

top talent and all star Olli Jokinen


Florida receives:


Jaret Stoll who had an off year, but is still a great player to help rebuild a team around

Raffi Torres a potential power forward who had an off year as well, but has proven to be a great even strength performer and gives some much needed grit and toughness to Florida's lineup.

Ladislav Smid very good physical defensive prospect

and a late first round draft pick




Florida could then go after UFA Daymond Langkow, Brendon Morrison, or perhaps RFA Antoine Vermette.

After the trade Edmonton would have quite a few options with Olli in the lineup, and could even experiment with him on LW as well. Many believe there isn't any room for Olli sallarywise, however with the cap going up, and the importance of the center position, having Gagner, Horcoff, and Olli centering 3 lines, your pretty much garanteed to have 3-4 dangerous lines.



Edmonton Option 1

Penner-Jokinen-Hemsky
Nillson-Gagner-Cogliano
Moreau-Horcoff-Pisani
Glencross-Brodziak-Stortini

PB: Reasoner, Pouliot, Schremp

Edmonton Option 2

Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
Nillson-Jokinen-Gagner
Moreau-Cogliano-Pisani
Glencross-Brodziak-Stortini

PB: Reasoner, Pouliot, Schremp

Edmonton Option 3

Jokinen-Horcoff-Hemsky
Nillson-Gagner-Cogliano
Penner-Reasoner/Pouliot-Pisani
Moreau-Brodziak-Stortini/Glencross (if resigned)


Last edited by FLYLine24: 05-23-2008 at 12:05 AM.
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Old
05-21-2008, 06:43 AM
  #2
BritSabre
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The problem with the deal is those players had regressive seasons, so have low value.

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Old
05-21-2008, 07:13 AM
  #3
Nizdizzle
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Quantity != Quality

Cogliano or Gagner should be going if Jokinen is on the table

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Old
05-21-2008, 08:27 AM
  #4
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No chance from Florida's perspective, and I am an Oiler fan!!!!!!!

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Old
05-21-2008, 08:39 AM
  #5
Laus723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
Quantity != Quality

Cogliano or Gagner should be going if Jokinen is on the table
Pretty much. 2 guys who had recessive seasons aren't enough to pull Florida's best player.

The team's trying to pull out of it's perennial re-build, not stay in it and try to go with 2 guys who "didn't have great seasons."

Sorry, but it's a no.

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05-21-2008, 08:44 AM
  #6
flannelman
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I don't think Flordia does this, I think that move would set them back when I think they're attempting to go forward & make the playoffs - to me, that looks more like a rebuilding mode.

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05-21-2008, 08:45 AM
  #7
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This would never work. Martin will trade Jokinen if can get better value or similar value for Jokinen. For example, if he can get a great defenseman or a good centerman an a good winger, or a good youngster, a good veteran and a pick...

For Edmonton, I say Pitkanen, Stoll(is he signed?), Torres and a 1st as a minimum, if Martin like Pitkanen and you want to trade your underarchivers.

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Old
05-21-2008, 09:32 AM
  #8
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Listing the assets Florida gets back in the trade is not the same thing as explaining why they would make the trade.

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Old
05-21-2008, 07:26 PM
  #9
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It would have to be Horcoff going back the other way in a deal for Jokinen. Stoll doesn't have any value, same with Torres. Smid is a quality piece, but not enough packaged with the other two. Perhaps Horcoff and Smid?

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Old
05-21-2008, 07:31 PM
  #10
voxel
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As an Oilers fan - after the WHC, I don't want anything to do with O.Jokinen if he's going to cost that much.

His stats are inflated playing in a weaker division and isn't an upgrade on Horcoff.

For the record, I've always coveted M.Koivu and would be willing to trade a lot for him.

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Old
05-21-2008, 07:37 PM
  #11
Paralyzer
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on NHL 08 I only needed to trade Stoll and a 3rd for Jokinen

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Old
05-21-2008, 08:50 PM
  #12
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...Why would a GM trade a star player for two players who COULD bounce back?

Stoll and Torres are both at all time lows in terms of their value. It doesn't make much sense to take them back in a trade.

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Old
05-21-2008, 09:02 PM
  #13
bucks_oil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cao View Post
...Why would a GM trade a star player for two players who COULD bounce back?

Stoll and Torres are both at all time lows in terms of their value. It doesn't make much sense to take them back in a trade.
To be fair, it is two players who could bounce back, a 21 year old defenseman with 100+ games of NHL experience (not many of those turn out to be duds) and a 1st round pick in a loaded draft.

I wouldn't do the deal if I were Florida either, as I'd prefer to have 1-2 very good assets instead of 3-4 decent ones... but from a total value perspective, it probably isn't that far off. It's more than Boston got for Thorton, more than Tampa got for Richards and (arguably) only a fraction less than what Lowe got for Pronger (who was signed to a decent contract).

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Old
05-21-2008, 09:56 PM
  #14
Blackhawkswincup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpDave View Post
Raffi Torres, Jaret Stoll, Ladislav Smid and ANA 1st 08

for

Olli Jokinen, and FLA 2nd 08
This is not enough! I think this is what Florida would be looking for

C Shawn Horcoff, LW Robert Nilsson, C Riley Nash, D Ladislav Smid, Ana 1st 08, Edm 2nd 09, Edm 3rd 09

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Old
05-21-2008, 10:23 PM
  #15
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Yea I doubt Florida would do this

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Old
05-21-2008, 10:32 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
This is not enough! I think this is what Florida would be looking for

C Shawn Horcoff, LW Robert Nilsson, C Riley Nash, D Ladislav Smid, Ana 1st 08, Edm 2nd 09, Edm 3rd 09
On HF, O. Jokinen is overrated and any player on the Oilers is underrated. The way O. Jokinen played in the WHC, I wouldn't give anything more than a third/fourth liner and maybe a fourth-fifth round draft pick. Stop overrating O. Jokinen.

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Old
05-21-2008, 10:42 PM
  #17
nabob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
This is not enough! I think this is what Florida would be looking for

C Shawn Horcoff, LW Robert Nilsson, C Riley Nash, D Ladislav Smid, Ana 1st 08, Edm 2nd 09, Edm 3rd 09
You forgot this :sarcasm

Try Horcoff, Hemsky, Gilbert, 08 1st, 09 1st, Chorney, Nash, and Schremp

Florida might have to throw in a 4th or 5th rounder to make it happen tho.

People forget how bad of a year oli had, his value isnt THAT high

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Old
05-21-2008, 10:59 PM
  #18
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The Oil don't need Jokinen. All of the proposals are crazy and this thread should be locked.

**Also any trade proposal that involves 4 player (3 being roster players) and 3 picks for a player not named Crosby, Ovechkin or Malkin should be blocked from further postings.

Gretzky barely commanded that value.

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Old
05-21-2008, 11:39 PM
  #19
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You know a proposal is made by a homer when they have the potential lineups for one team in the original post.

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Old
05-21-2008, 11:42 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoll2Hemsky View Post
On HF, O. Jokinen is overrated and any player on the Oilers is underrated. The way O. Jokinen played in the WHC, I wouldn't give anything more than a third/fourth liner and maybe a fourth-fifth round draft pick. Stop overrating O. Jokinen.
Good thing you cant make trades in the Championships then. But back in the NHL Im sure you'd give at the very least a young, top six forward and a first rounder.

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Old
05-21-2008, 11:57 PM
  #21
LimpDave
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Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
You know a proposal is made by a homer when they have the potential lineups for one team in the original post.
lol, damn right and i'm proud of it

anyways i'm very surprised by some of the responses regarding how valuable Olli really is...he's a good player, but he's acomplished nothing outside of being the best player on a very poor squad, and even that is debateable with Horton really coming into his own.

I really believe it's a time for a change in florida and it starts with Olli

Pitkanen, Torres, and Stoll would be a huge overpayment for Olli, i've been a fan of him for a long while, and he's not a true superstar in this league, he's a top line talent, and an allstar on a bad team, however on other teams he wouldn't be holding that torch so high, and i believe people would see him for what he really is, a good first line player

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Old
05-22-2008, 12:28 AM
  #22
Laus723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpDave View Post
lol, damn right and i'm proud of it

anyways i'm very surprised by some of the responses regarding how valuable Olli really is...he's a good player, but he's acomplished nothing outside of being the best player on a very poor squad, and even that is debateable with Horton really coming into his own.

I really believe it's a time for a change in florida and it starts with Olli

Pitkanen, Torres, and Stoll would be a huge overpayment for Olli, i've been a fan of him for a long while, and he's not a true superstar in this league, he's a top line talent, and an allstar on a bad team, however on other teams he wouldn't be holding that torch so high, and i believe people would see him for what he really is, a good first line player
Olli's the best player on a team with no true top-line winger to play on his line. He's managed to be a point-per-game player anyway and has made guys like Mclean, Stumpel, and Peltonen better players and ha helped give them better totals. Stick a solid winger with him and people see how valuable he is.

While Olli and Florida may need a change of scenery, your deal does nothing for Florida and everything for Edmonton. You think Florida's bad and is looking to continue the re-build and thus you offer not one but two players who under-performed this season and thus assume that Florida and Martin will gladly say..."OK, thanks!" Not going to happen. You have to give to get, I dont' see why Florida would think about this at all.

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Old
05-22-2008, 05:51 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpDave View Post
Raffi Torres, Jaret Stoll, Ladislav Smid and ANA 1st 08

for

Olli Jokinen, and FLA 2nd 08





Why?


Edmonton receives:

top talent and all star Olli Jokinen


Florida receives:


Jaret Stoll who had an off year, but is still a great player to help rebuild a team around

Raffi Torres a potential power forward who had an off year as well, but has proven to be a great even strength performer and gives some much needed grit and toughness to Florida's lineup.

Ladislav Smid very good physical defensive prospect

and a late first round draft pick




Florida could then go after UFA Daymond Langkow, Brendon Morrison, or perhaps RFA Antoine Vermette.

After the trade Edmonton would have quite a few options with Olli in the lineup, and could even experiment with him on LW as well. Many believe there isn't any room for Olli sallarywise, however with the cap going up, and the importance of the center position, having Gagner, Horcoff, and Olli centering 3 lines, your pretty much garanteed to have 3-4 dangerous lines.



Edmonton Option 1

Penner-Jokinen-Hemsky
Nillson-Gagner-Cogliano
Moreau-Horcoff-Pisani
Glencross-Brodziak-Stortini

PB: Reasoner, Pouliot, Schremp

Edmonton Option 2

Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
Nillson-Jokinen-Gagner
Moreau-Cogliano-Pisani
Glencross-Brodziak-Stortini

PB: Reasoner, Pouliot, Schremp

Edmonton Option 3

Jokinen-Horcoff-Hemsky
Nillson-Gagner-Cogliano
Penner-Reasoner/Pouliot-Pisani
Moreau-Brodziak-Stortini/Glencross (if resigned)
No No No Florida gets completely hosed on this deal.

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Old
05-22-2008, 11:40 AM
  #24
Roof Daddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
This is not enough! I think this is what Florida would be looking for

C Shawn Horcoff, LW Robert Nilsson, C Riley Nash, D Ladislav Smid, Ana 1st 08, Edm 2nd 09, Edm 3rd 09
Blackhawkswincup, you are always a laugh at least. So the Oilers have to give up a 1st line C, 2nd line LW, 2 B/B+ prospects (though I'm not sure Smid is still considered a prospect) a 1st, 2nd and 3rd - BUT, you thought the following deal would fetch the Hawks Kovalcuk:

To Thrashers:
D James Wisniewski
RW Troy Brouwer
RW Michael Blunden
LW Bryan Bickell
C Evan Brophey
1st in 08
1st in 09


A lesser package for a better player? Get of the gas huffin and start editing your own trades to look a little more respectable before you critique someone elses.

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Old
05-22-2008, 02:32 PM
  #25
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I hate people who think they are going to get Superstars for someone who is at best a star forward. This deal is to much for Jokinen 3 legitimate NHL roster players plus a 1st rounder in a deep draft. Some of you guys act like we are asking for mario or wayne but its just fricken jokinen people Give your head a shake its not going to happen. No gm is going to give florida that much for Jokinen. They are so blind too the fact that this deal makes florida a better team instantly. But are to DIM witted and ask for more. And this is only one thread of many that makes my blood boil. And after all this i have to ask DO YOU EVEN WATCH HOCKEY, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN STAR PLAYERS TRADED IN THE NHL? if so and you still think Jokinen should get you Horcoff, Hemsky, Gagner, Cogliano, you are just stupid. And after the worlds Florida is going to be lucky to get draft picks nevermind roster players. Jokinen was that bad.

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