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Old
05-24-2008, 07:19 PM
  #1
Inferno
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Youre not going to like this....

Im warning you right now, youre not going to like this.

Suggestion? Acquire Sheldon Souray.

Why? He fills a lot of needs we have. A shooter from the point, a mean *******, and a big body. at 5.4 mil id rather have him than Rozsival who will likely make the same amount of money.

Depends on what it takes to get him of course.

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05-24-2008, 07:28 PM
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CM Lundqvist
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Terrible defensively, positionally AND one-on-one.

Not worth the money.

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05-24-2008, 07:33 PM
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Inferno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Terrible defensively, positionally AND one-on-one.
I knew that would be the first thing people pointed out.

All I can say is.

Backman.

Strudwick.


Those guys played regular minutes for us...in the playoffs. You cant seriously tell me Souray wouldnt be a welcome addition to this lackluster blueline group.

Is he the best defensive player in the world? No. Neither is Girardi, Tyutin, Malik, Rozsival, or Mara. They get by because we have a system that doesnt depend on 1 guy making the defensive stops all the time. BUt what I like about Souray is he can legitimately fight, he has no problems laying other guys out, AND he has offensive ability from the point.

Youre not going to find very many Dion Phaneufs out there. Hes one in a million. Every player is going to have negatives. I just happen to find the positives Souray would bring are very much needed on this team.

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05-24-2008, 07:41 PM
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CM Lundqvist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
I knew that would be the first thing people pointed out.

All I can say is.

Backman.

Strudwick.


Those guys played regular minutes for us...in the playoffs. You cant seriously tell me Souray wouldnt be a welcome addition to this lackluster blueline group.
And our defense was the reason why we lost.

You want a guy who's as bad as those guys defensively, but paid twice as much as Backman and Strudwick combined?

Quote:
Is he the best defensive player in the world? No. Neither is Girardi, Tyutin, Malik, Rozsival, or Mara. They get by because we have a system that doesnt depend on 1 guy making the defensive stops all the time.
No, they're not the best, but they're all worlds better defensively than Souray, who is as useful as a pylon defensively.

They will all get by because they can actually play a semblance of defense.

Souray won't get by because he's terrible defensively, and his offense is limited to a shot on the power play.

I'd rather sign Brad Stuart than trade for Souray.

Quote:
BUt what I like about Souray is he can legitimately fight, he has no problems laying other guys out, AND he has offensive ability from the point.
Souray has no problems laying guys out, but the issue at hand there is how often he's successful in doing so, and the percentages there aren't very good.

His "offensive ability" from the point is just a shot. He's not a power play qb, don't get him confused with a guy like Zubov, Lidstrom, or Kaberle, who can distribute the puck well and get good shots on net.

He's just like Mara, but more overpaid and with a harder shot. I'd rather keep Mara and work on his shooting.

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Youre not going to find very many Dion Phaneufs out there. Hes one in a million. Every player is going to have negatives. I just happen to find the positives Souray would bring are very much needed on this team.
I'm not saying that we need 6 Phaneuf's on defense, but rather that the positives that Souray brings are little, and can be found elsewhere at much cheaper prices.

He's just not worth it, and definitely not worth giving up top assets for.

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Old
05-24-2008, 07:51 PM
  #5
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Are you high?

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05-24-2008, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
And our defense was the reason why we lost.
Really? I felt we lost because a ridiculously talented team in Pittsburgh out and out humiliated us with a display of skill, speed, aggression, and puck possession that made us look like pee wee players. I dont fault our defense, i credit their team. They beat us because they are better than us. Plain and simple.

Quote:

You want a guy who's as bad as those guys defensively, but paid twice as much as Backman and Strudwick combined?
Those guys bring nothing other than bodies to play. Souray has positives. Whether you want to just sweep them under the rug or grossly underestimate them is totally besides the point. He has huge positives. And like many others, has huge negatives as well.
Quote:


No, they're not the best, but they're all worlds better defensively than Souray, who is as useful as a pylon defensively.
im not sure i really agree with that. They are all guilty of having guys blow by them all the time. I think our defensive limitations are masked by the team game, and the guy we have between the pipes.
Quote:
Souray won't get by because he's terrible defensively, and his offense is limited to a shot on the power play.
His offense is limited to a shot on the power play. Wow, and tell me, who do we have, not just on the team now, but even in the pipeline who has even half the shot this guy has? If you dont have a guy at the point who can blast away, you cant play North/South hockey.

Quote:

I'd rather sign Brad Stuart than trade for Souray.
Ok

Quote:
His "offensive ability" from the point is just a shot. He's not a power play qb, don't get him confused with a guy like Zubov, Lidstrom, or Kaberle, who can distribute the puck well and get good shots on net.

He's just like Mara, but more overpaid and with a harder shot. I'd rather keep Mara and work on his shooting.
A shot is what we need.

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05-24-2008, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Are you high?
On life.

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Old
05-24-2008, 07:54 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Im warning you right now, youre not going to like this.

Suggestion? Acquire Sheldon Souray.

Why? He fills a lot of needs we have. A shooter from the point, a mean *******, and a big body. at 5.4 mil id rather have him than Rozsival who will likely make the same amount of money.

Depends on what it takes to get him of course.
My Dad has been a Ranger fan a long time. He remembers watching them win in 1940....He use to play at the old Garden yadda yadda yadda

Anyway Pops is still mighty sharp and a great Hockey fan in general. Hes convinced from last summer that the Oilers were babysitting Souray because the Rangers couldnt fit him in under the cap in the summer. He thinks Sather and Lowe had something agreed upon that would send Souray to the Rangers at the deadline. But he was injured.

Last summers plan was initially sign one of Gomez/Drury/Briere and Souray

Slats changed the plan when both Gomer and Drury accepted and the capologist said yea it will work. But Souray couldnt fit under the cap.

My Dad is alot of fun to talk hockey with....

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05-24-2008, 07:59 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Terrible defensively, positionally AND one-on-one.

Not worth the money.
The real question is his defensive downside negated by fixing the powerplay?

He'd be hear as a powerplay specialist and an UNBELIEVABLE shot from the point.

1. I know Renny and Co. could improve his D somewhat, simply by the system.

2. The Ranger powerplay was broken ALL SEASON LONG. Busted. Imagine if it was fixed. Wouldn't even have to be #1. Just above average.

Souray basically led the Habs whole team in scoring that season because of an INSANE shot on the powerplay.

Its so freakin tempting

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05-24-2008, 08:07 PM
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injurieeeeees

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05-24-2008, 08:13 PM
  #11
Trxjw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
On life.
Is that what they're calling it now?

At 6.25 million, I'd rather have Redden.


..or Suter, or Bouwmeester, or Liles AND Orpik.

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05-24-2008, 08:17 PM
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I would've agreed last offseason, but he only played 26 games, the last of which was in January. I would be very concerned with how the shoulder injury affected all of the things you are impressed about before rushing to acquire someone with such a big salary. With that said, if the Oilers would accept a lesser proposal then we might imagine for a big free agent signing just one year ago, I might take a risk.

Also, gotta say I was impressed by Stuart in the first period tonight and it also confirmed for me that Orpik should be our top priority. On Stuart though, last year in the finals I became convinced we should sign Tom Preissing so I'm thinking I should stick to guys I've seen more of lol.

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05-24-2008, 08:17 PM
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You can't shoot 90 mph with a shredded shoulder.

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05-24-2008, 08:33 PM
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CM Lundqvist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Really? I felt we lost because a ridiculously talented team in Pittsburgh out and out humiliated us with a display of skill, speed, aggression, and puck possession that made us look like pee wee players. I dont fault our defense, i credit their team. They beat us because they are better than us. Plain and simple.
Yes, they did simply outplay us, but our defense was terrible.

There just simply is no argument to it.

Quote:
Those guys bring nothing other than bodies to play. Souray has positives. Whether you want to just sweep them under the rug or grossly underestimate them is totally besides the point. He has huge positives. And like many others, has huge negatives as well. im not sure i really agree with that. They are all guilty of having guys blow by them all the time. I think our defensive limitations are masked by the team game, and the guy we have between the pipes.
Souray has ONE positive, and that's the shot. While it is a tremendous shot, his shot alone is not enough to negate his defensive inadequecies.

I just can't agree with bringing in someone at over 5 million just for a shot from the point. If you're going to trade for a 5 million dollar defenseman with a booming shot, trade for McCabe or Kubina, at least they can play some defense.

Not only that, but Souray is injured often.

Quote:
His offense is limited to a shot on the power play. Wow, and tell me, who do we have, not just on the team now, but even in the pipeline who has even half the shot this guy has? If you dont have a guy at the point who can blast away, you cant play North/South hockey.
Rozsival has a great shot, he just doesn't get it off because of the fact that he's looking to pass too much, but usually when he gets it on net, it's good for a rebound or a goal.

Quote:
Ok

A shot is what we need.
His shot alone is not worth 5+ million, plus giving up some of our top assets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
The real question is his defensive downside negated by fixing the powerplay?
No, because this is the kind of defenseman that other defensemen might quite possibly have to change the way they play the game to play with, and screwing with that could turn out to be fatal.

Quote:
He'd be hear as a powerplay specialist and an UNBELIEVABLE shot from the point.
Yes, but still not worth 5 million.

Quote:
1. I know Renny and Co. could improve his D somewhat, simply by the system.
This is not a 23-24 2nd or 3rd year defender we're talking about. This is a veteran who's in the later stages of the prime of his career. If he was younger, I'd completely agree with this point.

Quote:
2. The Ranger powerplay was broken ALL SEASON LONG. Busted. Imagine if it was fixed. Wouldn't even have to be #1. Just above average.
We have the tools, it's the people running it that concern me the most.

Quote:
Souray basically led the Habs whole team in scoring that season because of an INSANE shot on the powerplay.

Its so freakin tempting
He never lead Montreal in scoring, and not only that, Montreal's power play was STILL #1 in the league without him.

Doesn't that say anything to you guys?

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Old
05-24-2008, 08:37 PM
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A hard shot isn't going to magically fix the rangers PP. The secret to the PP is setting up in the offensive zone, letting Gomez set guys up and putting the puck to the net. For that we need a D-man who can carry the puck up the ice and help gomez.....AKA Brian Campbell or Jay Bouwmeester. They would be much more helpful than Souray's shot. Plus, he is way too much of an injury to give him 5 million +.

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05-24-2008, 08:54 PM
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CM Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by geisenNYR View Post
A hard shot isn't going to magically fix the rangers PP. The secret to the PP is setting up in the offensive zone, letting Gomez set guys up and putting the puck to the net. For that we need a D-man who can carry the puck up the ice and help gomez.....AKA Brian Campbell or Jay Bouwmeester. They would be much more helpful than Souray's shot. Plus, he is way too much of an injury to give him 5 million +.
BINGO.

I'd rather sign Campbell at 6.5 million than trade for Souray, and I'd much rather fork up the assets for Bouwmeester, than forking them up for Souray, or signing Campbell.

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05-24-2008, 11:59 PM
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Well at least the title is appropriate.

I'll confess that I had interest in the Rangers bringing in Souray last year for a few seconds, but his injury history, his contract....no thanks. I would go nowhere near him. I'd rather have Pitkanen and even then I'm not crazy about him.

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05-25-2008, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Im warning you right now, youre not going to like this.

Suggestion? Acquire Sheldon Souray.

Why? He fills a lot of needs we have. A shooter from the point, a mean *******, and a big body. at 5.4 mil id rather have him than Rozsival who will likely make the same amount of money.

Depends on what it takes to get him of course.
Inferno you are really starting to go overboard, last off season I recall you NOT Wantinh Souray now a year later you want us to trade for him, cmon dude, if he wasn't worth the money a year ago now suddenly he is worth giving up assests for? Dude, come back to us.

Stop hating on Backman, the kid is the goods. Give him a chance.

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05-25-2008, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
I knew that would be the first thing people pointed out.

All I can say is.

Backman.

Strudwick.
Not sure how pointing out our other defensively inferior d-men improve your argument...

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05-25-2008, 12:15 AM
  #20
Inferno
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
Inferno you are really starting to go overboard, last off season I recall you NOT Wantinh Souray now a year later you want us to trade for him, cmon dude, if he wasn't worth the money a year ago now suddenly he is worth giving up assests for? Dude, come back to us.

Stop hating on Backman, the kid is the goods. Give him a chance.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ghlight=souray
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ghlight=souray

ive been the same. i wanted him then, i want him now. but only if the price is right. I hate the contract, and i have no problems admitting i hate it. but hes got a lot of things i wish this team had. a good point shot, and a mean streak are probably 2 of the top 3.

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05-25-2008, 12:17 AM
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Not sure how pointing out our other defensively inferior d-men improve your argument...
because we managed to be a playoff team with 2 schlubs like that who just out and out suck defensively. if we can make the playoffs with those 2 pieces of crap (And Malik) then i have no problems believing we can make the playoffs with a defensively inept Souray. Because hes basically the same as those 3 are in his own end, BUT is mean, nasty, hits, and has a point shot. basically, its an improvement over those 2 guys, and he has 2 things, like i just said, that i wish this team had.



Oh to have drafted phaneuf.



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05-25-2008, 12:21 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by danno2530 View Post
Well at least the title is appropriate.

I'll confess that I had interest in the Rangers bringing in Souray last year for a few seconds, but his injury history, his contract....no thanks. I would go nowhere near him. I'd rather have Pitkanen and even then I'm not crazy about him.
yep, i know it was going to get a lot of backlash. as long as people keep it civil and make it a discussion, im all for the talk

seriously though, i can see why people hate the idea. The funny thing though, last year not many people at all could see why i absolutely hated the gomez and drury contracts....now more and more people are starting to realize how badly they have hurt this team. sometimes not going with the flow shows insight. sometimes, it shows stupidity, who knows where this idea of mine lies, but at least its something to talk about in this looooooong and endless summer.

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05-25-2008, 12:40 AM
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EJ Hradek actually mentioned the same exact thing on ESPN Radio 1050. He claimed that there is a rumored interest in the Rangers acquiring Souray this offseason, however he said that they are nowhere near a deal and it's more speculation than anything. So you're not as crazy as everyone claims you are.

Personally, I pass. Big, long term salary, combined with crappy defensive play and huge injury concerns. Not something we need right now. Would rather get a sure thing in a guy like Orpik or Commodore or somebody like that at 3 mill.

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05-25-2008, 12:51 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Im warning you right now, youre not going to like this.

Suggestion? Acquire Sheldon Souray.

Why? He fills a lot of needs we have. A shooter from the point, a mean *******, and a big body. at 5.4 mil id rather have him than Rozsival who will likely make the same amount of money.

Depends on what it takes to get him of course.
Bro, you constantly gripe about the Gomez and Drury contracts(which is fine because you are probably right about them)...but I find wanting to acquire this disgustingly overpaid d-man kind of hypocritical. Would you really want this pylon for over 5 mil? I know he has a cannon but atleast Rozsival can skate.

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05-25-2008, 12:54 AM
  #25
Inferno
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
EJ Hradek actually mentioned the same exact thing on ESPN Radio 1050. He claimed that there is a rumored interest in the Rangers acquiring Souray this offseason, however he said that they are nowhere near a deal and it's more speculation than anything. So you're not as crazy as everyone claims you are.

Personally, I pass. Big, long term salary, combined with crappy defensive play and huge injury concerns. Not something we need right now. Would rather get a sure thing in a guy like Orpik or Commodore or somebody like that at 3 mill.
the injury is about the only thing stopping me from out and out pushing hard for a trade. i dont have a problem with the contract, or the length. Hes 30, the contract will take him till hes what, 34? Im fine with that, those are usually prime years for defensemen.

I have no problem with Orpik (im luke warm on Commodore) coming here instead. Im just throwing out a different idea though. Since Orpik has been discussed ad nauseum.

RE: Hradek...thats cool. see, i knew i wasnt crazy. for the record though, i dont listen to the radio, or really check out many of the main stream places outside of sam weinmans blog and BB. other than that, i stick to msg boards.

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