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Buffalo and ?

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Old
05-25-2008, 09:00 AM
  #1
Tra La La
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Buffalo and ?

The Sabres need a Right Handed d.
That can play top 4 minutes, and penalty kill.
Is'nt injury prone,or over the hill.
Good Skater
Physical edge would be a plus. (See knuckle print Chris Niel )
Shot Blocking a major +
Sabres must retain rights for 4 years.

The Offer San Jose's 1st,Buffalo's 2nd, and 3rd.

The deal can be expanded to Include Afinogenov and or, 1 of Kotalik,Macarthur,Connolly. If a righthanded 2nd line center with excellent faceoff ability is offered. (3-4 years of rights)

For the terms of this thread NO OTHER SABRES ASSETS ARE AVAILABLE.

Offers?


Last edited by Tra La La: 05-25-2008 at 09:21 AM.
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05-25-2008, 12:42 PM
  #2
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer View Post
The Sabres need a Right Handed d.
That can play top 4 minutes, and penalty kill.
Is'nt injury prone,or over the hill.
Good Skater
Physical edge would be a plus. (See knuckle print Chris Niel )
Shot Blocking a major +
Sabres must retain rights for 4 years.

The Offer San Jose's 1st,Buffalo's 2nd, and 3rd.

The deal can be expanded to Include Afinogenov and or, 1 of Kotalik,Macarthur,Connolly. If a righthanded 2nd line center with excellent faceoff ability is offered. (3-4 years of rights)

For the terms of this thread NO OTHER SABRES ASSETS ARE AVAILABLE.

Offers?
So the Sabres want a valuable player that basically every team needs and wants, but aren't willing to give up anything of any real value?

I was thinking Bieksa when you posted this... top 4 dmen, tough as nails, plays on the top shutdown unit, top PP and PK units, logs a lot of minutes, right handed shot... basically everything, except he's locked up for 3 yrs instead of 4.

But you aren't offering a single asset that really is worth giving up that type of player for... I can't think of any player that fits what you're looking for that another team would be willing to give up for those types of assets.

IMO you're going to have to put up guys like Stafford or Bernier (considering that Pomminville is untouchable) in order to get such assets... Afinegenov is a year from UFA status and is coming off a weak year... Connolly has had concussion problems for a while now, and his value will be low as such... Kotalik is also a year from UFA status, while MacArthur is hardly a top rated young player that gets you such an asset... and a 1st, 2nd and 3rd - those are the type of assets moved for soon to be UFAs that fit your description (top 4 key dman), not guys that are locked up for 4 years.

guys like that don't move for quantity IMO... and there's not much quality in your offer, not for the type of quality you're expecting back in return.

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05-25-2008, 12:50 PM
  #3
Valic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer View Post

That can play top 4 minutes, and penalty kill.
Is'nt injury prone,or over the hill.
Good Skater
Physical edge would be a plus. (See knuckle print Chris Niel )
Shot Blocking a major +
Sabres must retain rights for 4 years.



Offers?
Top 4 minutes? Check.
Penalty Kill?? Double Check
Isn't injury prone? Check.
Over the hill? Check, his coach said he was playing the best hockey of his career this year.
Good Skater? Hes average
Physical Edge? Check
Shot Blocking? One of the leagues best
Sabres maintain rights? Well hes got a 3 year deal left a little over 2 million.

Now would he be available for what your offering? I could see it happen.
Who is this player you ask???



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05-25-2008, 12:59 PM
  #4
mkearney913
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I'm actually thinking Mike Komisarek here. While he's not the best skater, he was among the league's leaders in blocked shots and hits, has a reasonable offensive presence and has missed only 11 games the past 3 seasons. A trade to Buffalo moves him closer to home and he's an RFA next year, if I'm not mistaken. Here's the offer:

To Buffalo:
Mike Komisarek

To Montreal:
Clark MacArthur, San Jose's 1st

Realistically speaking, this is never gonna happen, but you haven't really given me a ton to work with in terms of defensemen.

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05-25-2008, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkearney913 View Post
I'm actually thinking Mike Komisarek here. While he's not the best skater, he was among the league's leaders in blocked shots and hits, has a reasonable offensive presence and has missed only 11 games the past 3 seasons. A trade to Buffalo moves him closer to home and he's an RFA next year, if I'm not mistaken. Here's the offer:

To Buffalo:
Mike Komisarek

To Montreal:
Clark MacArthur, San Jose's 1st

Realistically speaking, this is never gonna happen, but you haven't really given me a ton to work with in terms of defensemen.
Komisarek is a UFA after the coming season... so he wouldn't really fit into what the original poster wanted... but I can't see MTL even considering such an offer anyways....

I think that Staios is someone that Buffalo could easily acquire with the types of assets that are being talked about here... but I'd guess the OP wanted a higher quality dman than Staios.

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05-25-2008, 01:36 PM
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What I'm getting at is, Buffalo could get a better return poaching an RFA.

Is there an RFA who fits all the criteria? Probabley not.

A lot of Sabres Fans think Bieksa fits. I'm not so keen. I don't think I'd do the 1,2,3, pack. And I have'nt seen a proposal I would.

If they were going to poach Sabres fans think the target could be Shea Weber.

Komisarek most fits the player mold. But I don't think he is on the market. I don't think he could be had for the 1,2,3, pack. And I think he would cost more to extend, then poaching an RFA.

Staios is out of the age range. And I think there is a lingering animosity towards Edm. MGT, From Larry Quinn.

The point is they don't have to give up assets they don't want to. They have 2 first round picks this year, Could have 3 second round picks. They can load up on this years draft sign an RFA. And live without a 1,2,and 3 next year.


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05-25-2008, 02:07 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer View Post
What I'm getting at is, Buffalo could get a better return poaching an RFA.

Is there an RFA who fits all the criteria? Probabley not.

A lot of Sabres Fans think Bieksa fits. I'm not so keen. I don't think I'd do the 1,2,3, pack. And I have'nt seen a proposal I would.

If they were going to poach Sabres fans think the target could be Shea Weber.

Komisarek most fits the player mold. But I don't think he is on the market. I don't think he could be had for the 1,2,3, pack. And I think he would cost more to extend, then poaching an RFA.

Staios is out of the age range. And I think there is a lingering animosity towards Edm. MGT, From Larry Quinn.

The point is they don't have to give up assets they don't want to. They have 2 first round picks this year, Could have 3 second round picks. They can load up on this years draft sign an RFA. And live without a 1,2,and 3 next year.
Signing RFAs to offer sheets means giving up more money than the player is worth right now, while finding a team that would not be willing to match that offer. I don't see Nashville so quick to take the draft picks instead of matching an offersheet by the Sabres... they have tons of cap space, while Weber is a key player they can build their team around.

For the Sabres to fill that hole by means of poaching a RFA from another team will not be easy. How many dmen can you list that are RFAs this year, that you will be willing to overpay for longterm, that the team holding their rights will either not value enough to match (instead of taking those types of picks), or does not have the cap space to match?

The list of RFA dmen is also not that big for next season... young right side top 4 dmen that are RFAs: Weber, Green, Gleason ... possible top4 guys (or future top 4 talent): Foster, Emigner ... which ones there are worth the overpayment that a team couldn't match?

As far as Bieksa goes, as a canuck fan I wouldn't move him for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd... he's coming off an injury-plagued season, so his value won't be as high, but he's still the team's toughest dman (and toughest player overall), and a dman that is effective in every role - PP, PK, shutdown, etc.. not to mention the right handed shot which is also a rarity on the team (and the league in general).

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Old
05-25-2008, 02:35 PM
  #8
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If your talking actually available d-men one guy who checks most of those requirement is Kubina

Right hand shot - yes
Top 4 mins - Definately
PK - One of his strengths
Physical edge - yes (to a degree anyways)
Injury prone - has had a few injurys the last couple years but nothing serious, olkder but definately has plenty of good years left
Shot blocking - another one of his strengths
Locked up longterm -No, 2 years left at a hefty price (5 mill per)
He also has a cannon of a shot from the point

He checks most of the boxes you are looking for, is actually avaliable and wouldnt cost alot.

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05-25-2008, 02:37 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanW27 View Post
If your talking actually available d-men one guy who checks most of those requirement is Kubina

Right hand shot - yes
Top 4 mins - Definately
PK - One of his strengths
Physical edge - yes (to a degree anyways)
Injury prone - has had a few injurys the last couple years but nothing serious, olkder but definately has plenty of good years left
Shot blocking - another one of his strengths
Locked up longterm -No, 2 years left at a hefty price (5 mill per)
He also has a cannon of a shot from the point

He checks most of the boxes you are looking for, is actually avaliable and wouldnt cost alot.
Beat me by just a few minutes.

I am not sure what Buffalo has to offer however. And trades within the division are kinda slim.

Buffalo will shy away from his salary however.

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05-25-2008, 03:00 PM
  #10
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I agree with NFiTO here. You're likely not offering up the assets that are going to land you the type of player you're seeking. You're basically asking for something that plenty of other teams are also seeking and offering up struggling players who are a year away from UFA and a late 1st rounder. You gotta give value to get value.

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05-25-2008, 03:04 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer View Post
The Sabres need a Right Handed d.
That can play top 4 minutes, and penalty kill.
Is'nt injury prone,or over the hill.
Good Skater
Physical edge would be a plus. (See knuckle print Chris Niel )
Shot Blocking a major +
Sabres must retain rights for 4 years.

The Offer San Jose's 1st,Buffalo's 2nd, and 3rd.

The deal can be expanded to Include Afinogenov and or, 1 of Kotalik,Macarthur,Connolly. If a righthanded 2nd line center with excellent faceoff ability is offered. (3-4 years of rights)

For the terms of this thread NO OTHER SABRES ASSETS ARE AVAILABLE.

Offers?
Could you be a bit more specific?

What team is going to give up a player like this for the package you're proposing? Then someone proposes a player that fills nearly the entire criteria except for age (Staios, who I wouldn't want the Oil to move if we're gonna have a shot at the playoffs), and thats the deal breaker. Good luck finding some takers.

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05-25-2008, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valic View Post
Top 4 minutes? Check.
Penalty Kill?? Double Check
Isn't injury prone? Check.
Over the hill? Check, his coach said he was playing the best hockey of his career this year.
Good Skater? Hes average
Physical Edge? Check
Shot Blocking? One of the leagues best
Sabres maintain rights? Well hes got a 3 year deal left a little over 2 million.

Now would he be available for what your offering? I could see it happen.
Who is this player you ask???


Fits perfectly. The Oil definitely don't want to give him up for what's offered though.

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05-25-2008, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkearney913 View Post
I'm actually thinking Mike Komisarek here. While he's not the best skater, he was among the league's leaders in blocked shots and hits, has a reasonable offensive presence and has missed only 11 games the past 3 seasons. A trade to Buffalo moves him closer to home and he's an RFA next year, if I'm not mistaken. Here's the offer:

To Buffalo:
Mike Komisarek

To Montreal:
Clark MacArthur, San Jose's 1st

Realistically speaking, this is never gonna happen, but you haven't really given me a ton to work with in terms of defensemen.

Well you sure got one think right .Realistically speaking, this is never gonna happen not unless Buf adds something of value in there. This offer is just pathetic.

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05-25-2008, 10:10 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer View Post
If they were going to poach Sabres fans think the target could be Shea Weber.
And give up 2 or 4 1st rounders. Same applies to Suter.

You aren't going to get very much with a 1st, 2nd, 3rd - especially a young top-4 D-man with all those attributes.

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05-25-2008, 10:20 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer View Post
The Sabres need a Right Handed d.
That can play top 4 minutes, and penalty kill.
Is'nt injury prone,or over the hill.
Good Skater
Physical edge would be a plus. (See knuckle print Chris Niel )
Shot Blocking a major +
Sabres must retain rights for 4 years.

The Offer San Jose's 1st,Buffalo's 2nd, and 3rd.

The deal can be expanded to Include Afinogenov and or, 1 of Kotalik,Macarthur,Connolly. If a righthanded 2nd line center with excellent faceoff ability is offered. (3-4 years of rights)

For the terms of this thread NO OTHER SABRES ASSETS ARE AVAILABLE.

Offers?
I'd figure Ryan O'Byrne fits the description (not sure about rights, he's either 23 or 24)...but I doubt the Habs would give up a potential top pairing D-man (not sold on that, but COULD) to a division rival.
I'd take the San Jose first and a 3rd for him. But I doubt Buffalo would do it.

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05-25-2008, 10:29 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
I'd figure Ryan O'Byrne fits the description (not sure about rights, he's either 23 or 24)...but I doubt the Habs would give up a potential top pairing D-man (not sold on that, but COULD) to a division rival.
I'd take the San Jose first and a 3rd for him. But I doubt Buffalo would do it.
Is O'Bryne top-4 now? His ice times don't seem to be reflective of that and he appeared to have played very little PK compared to others.

He isn't worth anywhere near a 1st... maybe a 3rd or 2nd. A player is only worth more than his draft pick spot(3rd) if he exceeds his projection.

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05-25-2008, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by voxel View Post
Is O'Bryne top-4 now? His ice times don't seem to be reflective of that and he appeared to have played very little PK compared to others.

He isn't worth anywhere near a 1st... maybe a 3rd or 2nd. A player is only worth more than his draft pick spot(3rd) if he exceeds his projection.
Well, he did play close to 15 minutes per game late in the season on the second pairing with Hammer. He blocked shots, hit, made good passes and more importantly, showed incredible progression. When Komisarek went down, he stepped up big time.
He is a lock for our top 4 in the next years. The only way he gets bumped down, is if our prospects come knocking early (like McDonagh, Carle, Weber, Fischer, etc.). He was +7 in his rookie season, which is pretty darn good.
He didn't play much in the playoffs because our coach is a retard. I mean, he put Brisebois back in late in the season when he didn't play any part of our great campaign.

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05-25-2008, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
Well, he did play close to 15 minutes per game late in the season on the second pairing with Hammer. He blocked shots, hit, made good passes and more importantly, showed incredible progression. When Komisarek went down, he stepped up big time.
He is a lock for our top 4 in the next years. The only way he gets bumped down, is if our prospects come knocking early (like McDonagh, Carle, Weber, Fischer, etc.). He was +7 in his rookie season, which is pretty darn good.
He didn't play much in the playoffs because our coach is a retard. I mean, he put Brisebois back in late in the season when he didn't play any part of our great campaign.
Too small of a sample size and he played with Hammer (who can cover up for mistakes - he made young Phaneuf look good when he wasn't).

So Buffalo is going to trade a 1st + 3rd for young D-man with 20-30 good games under his belt? They can get more.

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05-25-2008, 11:01 PM
  #19
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Too small of a sample size and he played with Hammer (who can cover up for mistakes - he made young Phaneuf look good when he wasn't).

So Buffalo is going to trade a 1st + 3rd for young D-man with 20-30 good games under his belt? They can get more.
I also said it was fairly improbable. But the guy wants something like 4 years of rights.
O'Byrne is a top 4 on most teams (if not all) because he has the total package (size, skating, passing, decent shot). Unfortunately, he plays on a team with one of the best top-3's (Detroit has a sure-fire HoFer in Lidström, with great D-men in Rafalski and Kronwall, so I guess I'll give 'em number 1).
I don't know how good he'll become, but dangling a 1st for a potential top-3 minute guy isn't that out of line. With 1 more season, I'm guessing he'll be looking more attractive.

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05-25-2008, 11:02 PM
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Just sign Mike Commodore. He can't skate but he fits most of the other criteria.

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05-25-2008, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
I also said it was fairly improbable. But the guy wants something like 4 years of rights.
O'Byrne is a top 4 on most teams (if not all) because he has the total package (size, skating, passing, decent shot). Unfortunately, he plays on a team with one of the best top-3's (Detroit has a sure-fire HoFer in Lidström, with great D-men in Rafalski and Kronwall, so I guess I'll give 'em number 1).
I don't know how good he'll become, but dangling a 1st for a potential top-3 minute guy isn't that out of line. With 1 more season, I'm guessing he'll be looking more attractive.
You forgot the Ducks who have a far better top-3 than the Canadiens.

As for "O'Byrne is a top 4 on most teams" that is homerism reeking pretty badly.

A D-man like Beauchemin finally got exposed because he no longer had Scotty covering for his mistakes. Pronger made MAB look decent with the Oilers... O'Bryne needs a full season taking on top-6 forwards for me to even consider him top-4 material.

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05-25-2008, 11:12 PM
  #22
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You forgot the Ducks who have a far better top-3 than the Canadiens.

As for "O'Byrne is a top 4 on most teams" that is homerism reeking pretty badly.

A D-man like Beauchemin finally got exposed because he no longer had Scotty covering for his mistakes. Pronger made MAB look decent with the Oilers... O'Bryne needs a full season taking on top-6 forwards for me to even consider him top-4 material.
Considering how he played late in the season (OB that is), I'll assume you weren't watching. Please explain to me which team has a better 4th defenseman than O'Byrne.
The Ducks, you mean Pronger, Beauchemin and Schneider? Oh, and Niedermayer late in the season...Oh wait, they were calling interference and holding right? Well, that can't be good for 'em, now can it?
I'll take Markov, Komisarek and Hammer before a soon-to-be retired Niedermayer, a Pronger who was very so-so compared to himself and Beauchemin, who started to look like a very ordinary D-man.

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05-25-2008, 11:23 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
Considering how he played late in the season (OB that is), I'll assume you weren't watching. Please explain to me which team has a better 4th defenseman than O'Byrne.
Lots... Tom Gilbert, Bieksa/Edler, Ballard/Michalek, Meszaros/Redden/Commodore, Suter/Hamhuis/Zidlicky, Norstrom/Boucher/Niskanen...

There some teams with pretty good D-men depth like Dallas and Nashville and Vancouver. Phoenix and St. Louis aren't too bad either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
The Ducks, you mean Pronger, Beauchemin and Schneider? Oh, and Niedermayer late in the season...Oh wait, they were calling interference and holding right? Well, that can't be good for 'em, now can it?
I have no idea what you are talking about at all but I suspect you are bitter about something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
I'll take Markov, Komisarek and Hammer before a soon-to-be retired Niedermayer, a Pronger who was very so-so compared to himself and Beauchemin, who started to look like a very ordinary D-man.
Who cares if Niedermayer is retiring... you said best top-3 D-men in the league without referencing cap + contracts + etc. and now you are changing the rules? Did you mother smack you in the head often?

Considering the Ducks gave up 2.24 GA/game and the Canadiens 2.63 GA/game I wouldn't be claiming MTL's D as better.

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05-25-2008, 11:32 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
Please explain to me which team has a better 4th defenseman than O'Byrne.
Ohlund - Salo
Mitchell - Bieksa
Krajicek - Edler

That's our top 6, and the only guy that O'Byrne might be better than is Krajicek.

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05-26-2008, 01:00 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
Please explain to me which team has a better 4th defenseman than O'Byrne.
God bless the Homer, how much worse would these boards be without them.

Seriously, he never played above 20 minutes this year and your calling him a top 4 defenseman on every team in the league

Ignoring the fact that he wouldn't even be starting on some teams (Vancouver and probably Dallas) there are far more teams in which he would be on the bottom pair than in that 4 spot. O'Bryne's a good player but it will be a few years yet before he can be called a top-4 defenseman.

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