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Lafleur: Re-sign Kovalev, Not Koivu

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Old
05-26-2008, 10:20 PM
  #151
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Toro View Post
This thread is about Guy lafleur and the fact that he is an employee of the habs and is spreading negative media.

He doesn't belong with the team.


i have been called a genius and 13yr old in this thread but whatever, Guy lafleur used to be a favorite player of mine and if i was to see him again i would tell him that he should resign from the habs and become the Hockey analyst he thinks he is.

Not the Montreal Canadiens Hockey Ambassador.


oh and Kriss are you afraid to tell us your age? and favorite color? mine is Black
Im not afraid to tell you my age, just like me asking you ''how old are you'' was not really a direct question.

I explained it later by saying ''you can be 54, point is you bring points a 13yo would bring''..but clearly you didn't understand.

Im 25.

And Lafleur doesn't bring any negative ''media'' as you call it. He basically said, its time for The Habs to start a new era by not signing Koivu in his opinion. He might not entirely be wrong about that on top of it. Koivu will be almost 36 when the time to resign with team will come.
With all due respect to Koivu, at 36 with all his health/injuries, he won't be the #1 center of any team, maybe not even the 2nd.

Lafleur said, its time for a new captain basically, and it might very well happen.

Personally, i have no problem with resigning Koivu, depending on how much he's asking and for how long.
But it is time to change captaincy, if not next year the year after.

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05-26-2008, 10:30 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
He looked like a player that had 3 weeks of rest .
i think you forgot to add the part where he had a broken foot
and was not 100% in the playoffs.

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05-26-2008, 10:34 PM
  #153
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by ari1160 View Post
i think you forgot to add the part where he had a broken foot
and was not 100% in the playoffs.
And you think Markov-Kovalev-Streit-Bouillon-Komi and pretty much most players were 100%?

Koivu didn't play for 3weeks before, of course he'll be more rested even coming back from a foot injury. Still, he played great but was more rested than most players, this is obvious.
Dont forget that the Plekanec line was also the one getting the most attention, so that leaves more room for the Koivu line.

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05-26-2008, 10:44 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
And you think Markov-Kovalev-Streit-Bouillon-Komi and pretty much most players were 100%?

Koivu didn't play for 3weeks before, of course he'll be more rested even coming back from a foot injury. Still, he played great but was more rested than most players, this is obvious.
Dont forget that the Plekanec line was also the one getting the most attention, so that leaves more room for the Koivu line.
Very good point, I think a lot of people that are complaining about Kovalev and Plekanec's play are over looking that fact.

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05-26-2008, 10:46 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
And you think Markov-Kovalev-Streit-Bouillon-Komi and pretty much most players were 100%?

Koivu didn't play for 3weeks before, of course he'll be more rested even coming back from a foot injury. Still, he played great but was more rested than most players, this is obvious.
Dont forget that the Plekanec line was also the one getting the most attention, so that leaves more room for the Koivu line.
Komisarek was "rested" too.

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05-26-2008, 10:55 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
And you think Markov-Kovalev-Streit-Bouillon-Komi and pretty much most players were 100%?

Koivu didn't play for 3weeks before, of course he'll be more rested even coming back from a foot injury. Still, he played great but was more rested than most players, this is obvious.
Dont forget that the Plekanec line was also the one getting the most attention, so that leaves more room for the Koivu line.
my point is no one is at 100% when it comes to playoffs but playing with a broken foot and still getting points 9 points in 7 game is pretty good. Streit was injured but did he play the way he did in the regular season? no. some player can take the game to the next level with injury and some cant.



if i remember, koivu and kovy were playing in the same line for few games and how is it that most of the attention were on the plekanec line? you think just because a player had a bad season so the other team goes " he sucks " so dont worry about him? the other teams knows exactly what they can do or not do from experience that is. but ill give you that in regular season the plekanec line were getting more attention but not in the playoffs at least not all the game.

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05-26-2008, 11:00 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by ari1160 View Post
my point is no one is at 100% when it comes to playoffs but playing with a broken foot and still getting points 9 points in 7 game is pretty good. Streit was injured but did he play the way he did in the regular season? no. some player can take the game to the next level with injury and some cant.



if i remember, koivu and kovy were playing in the same line for few games and how is it that most of the attention were on the plekanec line? you think just because a player had a bad season so the other team goes " he sucks " so dont worry about him? the other teams knows exactly what they can do or not do from experience that is. but ill give you that in regular season the plekanec line were getting more attention but not in the playoffs at least not all the game.
Actually it was only for a little while ari. The majority of the playoffs Koivu and Kovalev were on their regular lines.

In the Boston series Pleks line *when he was playing with Kovy* faced Chara.
In the Philly series Pleks line faced Timmonen the majority of the time.

It wasn't because they felt that Koivu's line was weak. They just decided to put their best checkers against our best line.

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05-26-2008, 11:18 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Actually it was only for a little while ari. The majority of the playoffs Koivu and Kovalev were on their regular lines.

In the Boston series Pleks line *when he was playing with Kovy* faced Chara.
In the Philly series Pleks line faced Timmonen the majority of the time.

It wasn't because they felt that Koivu's line was weak. They just decided to put their best checkers against our best line.
Actually Kovalev and Koivu where together from game 7 of boston to midway through game 4 in Philly.

Most of Koivu's playoff were played with Kovalev.

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05-26-2008, 11:22 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Andrei Kostopolous View Post
Actually Kovalev and Koivu where together from game 7 of boston to midway through game 4 in Philly.

Most of Koivu's playoff were played with Kovalev.
Thanks for the correction AK, I'm getting old so the mind likes messing around with me sometimes.

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05-26-2008, 11:28 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Actually it was only for a little while ari. The majority of the playoffs Koivu and Kovalev were on their regular lines.

In the Boston series Pleks line *when he was playing with Kovy* faced Chara.
In the Philly series Pleks line faced Timmonen the majority of the time.

It wasn't because they felt that Koivu's line was weak. They just decided to put their best checkers against our best line.
out of koivu's 7 playoffs games i think half of them saku was with kovy.
i remember game 7 koivu's line faced chara, and starting the philly series at least 2 or 3 games timmonen was playing against the saku-kovy line. but none of this is an excuse why a player can or cant produce when they play the top players of the other team. a good/great player always finds the ways to produce.

but i could be wrong who knows, if so my bad.


Last edited by ari1160: 05-26-2008 at 11:46 PM.
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05-27-2008, 12:37 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by ari1160 View Post
my point is no one is at 100% when it comes to playoffs but playing with a broken foot and still getting points 9 points in 7 game is pretty good. Streit was injured but did he play the way he did in the regular season? no. some player can take the game to the next level with injury and some cant.



if i remember, koivu and kovy were playing in the same line for few games and how is it that most of the attention were on the plekanec line? you think just because a player had a bad season so the other team goes " he sucks " so dont worry about him? the other teams knows exactly what they can do or not do from experience that is. but ill give you that in regular season the plekanec line were getting more attention but not in the playoffs at least not all the game.
When did i say Koivu had a bad season?..
The other teams were looking to shut down Kovalev seeing as without him, we're probably not even in the POs.
So of course they're gonna put their best players against Kovalev. Its not when Koivu is on, Chara or Timonen jumps on, its when Kovalev is on. Get it?..
Koivu did play maybe half of his PO time with Kovalev, but when did he get most of his points?..

Regardless, this is not the issue. Koivu had a great PO, i wasn't contradicting that. But he was indeed more rested, i don't know why you refuse to admit that. It doesn't mean he wouldnt have performed as well had he not been rested that much. Fact is he was well rested.

Streit didn't have the same type of injury, neither did Komisarek.
Having back problems and getting hit non-stop isn't quite the same as a broken bone in a foot, that you don't even feel when you put your skate on becomes it numbs out.
To be quite honest, I don't think Koivu was that far from 100% either seeing as he played for Finland right after losing.

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05-27-2008, 12:39 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by ari1160 View Post
out of koivu's 7 playoffs games i think half of them saku was with kovy.
i remember game 7 koivu's line faced chara, and starting the philly series at least 2 or 3 games timmonen was playing against the saku-kovy line. but none of this is an excuse why a player can or cant produce when they play the top players of the other team. a good/great player always finds the ways to produce.

but i could be wrong who knows, if so my bad.
Are you saying Hossa/Malkin/Crosby are not good/great players so far since they have done jack vs Detroit??..

Coverage is very important. Look at how Draper is sticking on Crosby.

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05-27-2008, 01:50 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
When did i say Koivu had a bad season?..
The other teams were looking to shut down Kovalev seeing as without him, we're probably not even in the POs.
So of course they're gonna put their best players against Kovalev. Its not when Koivu is on, Chara or Timonen jumps on, its when Kovalev is on. Get it?..
Koivu did play maybe half of his PO time with Kovalev, but when did he get most of his points?..

Regardless, this is not the issue. Koivu had a great PO, i wasn't contradicting that. But he was indeed more rested, i don't know why you refuse to admit that. It doesn't mean he wouldnt have performed as well had he not been rested that much. Fact is he was well rested.

Streit didn't have the same type of injury, neither did Komisarek.
Having back problems and getting hit non-stop isn't quite the same as a broken bone in a foot, that you don't even feel when you put your skate on becomes it numbs out.
To be quite honest, I don't think Koivu was that far from 100% either seeing as he played for Finland right after losing.
WHile nothing you're saying is totally wrong, it doesnt explain at all why Koivu always end up our best player in the PO, it's not like it was the first time you know...

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05-27-2008, 02:24 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
When did i say Koivu had a bad season?..
The other teams were looking to shut down Kovalev seeing as without him, we're probably not even in the POs.
So of course they're gonna put their best players against Kovalev. Its not when Koivu is on, Chara or Timonen jumps on, its when Kovalev is on. Get it?..
Koivu did play maybe half of his PO time with Kovalev, but when did he get most of his points?..

Regardless, this is not the issue. Koivu had a great PO, i wasn't contradicting that. But he was indeed more rested, i don't know why you refuse to admit that. It doesn't mean he wouldnt have performed as well had he not been rested that much. Fact is he was well rested.

Streit didn't have the same type of injury, neither did Komisarek.
Having back problems and getting hit non-stop isn't quite the same as a broken bone in a foot, that you don't even feel when you put your skate on becomes it numbs out.
To be quite honest, I don't think Koivu was that far from 100% either seeing as he played for Finland right after losing.
i never said that you said saku had a bad season. i was just pointing it out that this season was not one of saku's best season in points wise. sorry for the miss understanding dude.

yea i know chara or timonen will jump on the ice when ever kovy is there but i was just saying that the plek's line didnt get all the attention in the series. at least when kovy was not on his line.
we can all argue he was close to 100% or not but there is no way to know that for sure but no one is at 100% unless you miss the regular season. and every injury has its issues, as for saku a broken foot but still skated well. i know its different from komi or streit, and every injury reacts differently.


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05-27-2008, 02:27 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Are you saying Hossa/Malkin/Crosby are not good/great players so far since they have done jack vs Detroit??..

Coverage is very important. Look at how Draper is sticking on Crosby.

i knew this was going to come back and hunt me haha.
i was gona say red wings are in their own league right now lol..
well i said produce so produce can be offence or creating chances or make a good defensive play. its not always about points.
you also need experience sure hossa has some but its not a one man show.
the series is not over yet. who knows they might score one lol.. all tho i want wings to win.

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05-27-2008, 03:30 AM
  #166
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For once, I agree with Guy. Koivu as passed the point where he can bring us anywhere, hes still a good player by all accounts but he can't play with an edge for long enough period of times. I also don't want anything to do with signing him for emotional reasons(he should finish his career here kinda arguments, this team shouldn't be a pre-retirement stop), business is business.
People who post these things should think twice. There are two sides to that coin.

Is it really your suggestion that the Montreal Canadiens INTENTIONALLY become known as PURELY a "business is business" organization? Is this really a good way to foster pride in the jersey? Or is pride also an emotional thing that should be minimized?

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05-27-2008, 04:10 AM
  #167
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Hello people, again if you let Koivu to free agency next summer, who do you propose to replace him with????


Or if be the case, trade him for that improves that area of our hockey team???

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05-27-2008, 04:31 AM
  #168
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Hello people, again if you let Koivu to free agency next summer, who do you propose to replace him with????


Or if be the case, trade him for that improves that area of our hockey team???
Next summer ? how about the 08-09 season... we don't even have 4 C yet

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05-27-2008, 05:57 AM
  #169
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I loved Lafleur as a player.

Now look at these names: Robinson, Savard, Lemaire, Reisborough, Lapointe, Nilan, Shutt, Cournvoyer, Dryden, Gainey, these are all players from those great Canadiens teams. They all had careers in the NHL after their playing days. Lafleur had nothing after his playing days. Hmmmmmm I wonder if that means anything.

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05-27-2008, 06:53 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Im not afraid to tell you my age, just like me asking you ''how old are you'' was not really a direct question.

I explained it later by saying ''you can be 54, point is you bring points a 13yo would bring''..but clearly you didn't understand.

Im 25.
Well if you don't want to hear anyone elses opinion then why do you come here? to educate us 13yo posters? or do you get off on trying to belittle people on a hockey board. Cause i do not believe i post like a 13 yo. Maybe you are a little weakling that gets picked on in life, gets beat up by his 13 yo sister, has no friends and likes to take it out on the world by belittling people who have a different opinion than yours right here on HF. Its not like i came at you with a couple 1 liners or some crazy shiznit. I have a legit opinion that is shared by many here in this thread so why don't you grow up dude.

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05-27-2008, 07:43 AM
  #171
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Well if you don't want to hear anyone elses opinion then why do you come here? to educate us 13yo posters? or do you get off on trying to belittle people on a hockey board. Cause i do not believe i post like a 13 yo. Maybe you are a little weakling that gets picked on in life, gets beat up by his 13 yo sister, has no friends and likes to take it out on the world by belittling people who have a different opinion than yours right here on HF. Its not like i came at you with a couple 1 liners or some crazy shiznit. I have a legit opinion that is shared by many here in this thread so why don't you grow up dude.
Eaaaasy now, buckaroo...and remember: Valium is your friend!

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05-27-2008, 07:55 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by ari1160 View Post
out of koivu's 7 playoffs games i think half of them saku was with kovy.
i remember game 7 koivu's line faced chara, and starting the philly series at least 2 or 3 games timmonen was playing against the saku-kovy line. but none of this is an excuse why a player can or cant produce when they play the top players of the other team. a good/great player always finds the ways to produce.

but i could be wrong who knows, if so my bad.
No you're correct ari, I'm the one that goofed up. My bad

Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
I loved Lafleur as a player.

Now look at these names: Robinson, Savard, Lemaire, Reisborough, Lapointe, Nilan, Shutt, Cournvoyer, Dryden, Gainey, these are all players from those great Canadiens teams. They all had careers in the NHL after their playing days. Lafleur had nothing after his playing days. Hmmmmmm I wonder if that means anything.
Yes it means that he didn't want to be a Team President, GM, Coach, Ast.Coach


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05-27-2008, 08:23 AM
  #173
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I fail to see how what Guy Lafleur said can be seen as negative. He just stated his opinion about which players the Canadiens should or should not offer new contracts at the end of next year. People get way too emotional over this. It's a professional sports team. Lafleur is only stating that Koivu could be a good trade bait and will, in his opinion, not be worth spending a lot of money on after his contrat expires, and that the Habs are better off signing a younger free agent center and/or using their young players more. He also says some very nice things about Koivu in the article. Buisness is buisness, that's all...

I don't know if I agree with him, but what he's saying is not negative.

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05-27-2008, 08:24 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
People who post these things should think twice. There are two sides to that coin.

Is it really your suggestion that the Montreal Canadiens INTENTIONALLY become known as PURELY a "business is business" organization? Is this really a good way to foster pride in the jersey? Or is pride also an emotional thing that should be minimized?

Shouldnt be, but you don't take decisions uniquely because of pride or do you? What I hear here is often this: Even if Saku is 51 years old, plays with 1 arm, 1 leg we should keep him because he doesnt want to retire.(Ok ok I've added some extra years and injuries for comedic value) Pride is only good when the player in question is league-competitive for his position/role.

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05-27-2008, 08:26 AM
  #175
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No you're correct ari, I'm the one that goofed up. My bad



Yes it means that he didn't want to be a Team President, GM, Coach, Ast.Coach
I'm not sure what the big deal is here other than we over react at times. Lafeur voiced, in a column what many of us have wondered. When this season is in full swing, how will the team adress the status of the 2 veteran forwards. You can make good cases for extending,dealing, either one of them for reasons of high value,low value,inconsistency or consistency. Every possible angle has been explored with both players. It's a matter that will be looked at more closely when the roster takes shape after potential signings and deals.

Lafeur expressed his opinion, and I'm not sure that he bad mouthed anyone. Lafleur has a habit of saying what's on his mind before filtering it a whole lot, kind of like tavern talk where you just say stuff and forget about it. The team knows that he's like this. They know he has a column. They know he's struggled wirh some personal issues lately. They've chosen to live and let live. They could've stepped in at any time and said, that he had to repaet the company line if he wanted to stay on the payroll, but they never did. So if they're ok with it, I'm not too excited. Maybe 5 columns ago, but not now.

It's just a freakin' opinion,man.

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